Episode 3 - Great Orgasms – Psychic Energy vs. Physical Technique with Ray Vetterlein, Master Practitioner of Extended Orgasm

Great Orgasms - Psychic Energy vs. Physical Technique: Dr. Patti Talks to Ray Vetterlein, Master Practitioner of Extended Orgasm

Note: This Program is intended for mature audiences only!

Dr. Patti Taylor: Hi I'm Dr. Patti Taylor, and we have an amazing show for you today.  You’ll discover what percentage of a great date comes from psychic energy vs. physical technique.  You'll learn how to make a woman cum by expertly touching her.  And you'll find out who's in charge during an extended orgasmic date.  Is it the man or the woman?

Ray Vetterlein:  Its like swimming, You can learn to swim in the pool fairly easy, but with practice and intent you can swim the English Channel.  I ran the same sustained orgasm, sustained contractions on a woman for three continuous hours.  If you approach sex the same as you would learning tennis or swimming, you'll get there a lot faster.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the Expanded Love making show, I'm your host Patti Taylor, and I teach people how to make love.  Today on the show were talking about amazing extended orgasm, and how do develop your abilities to give and receive them.  Our guest is Ray Veterlein, who has been giving women these wonderful experiences for over 40 years.  Hundreds or perhaps even thousands of women have enjoyed expanded orgasmic pleasure thanks to his magic touch. Welcome Ray.

Ray Vetterlein:  Thank you its good to be here.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Ray is known as one of the greatest givers of this pleasure alive today.  He began studies of extended orgasm with Moore University in the 1960s and completed their most rigorous training program.  What a distinction! Ray, who is turning 81 this week, continues to give women mind blowing orgasms.  He is considered legendary in his abilities, and I've heard that Ray is getting better all the time.  Ray, I'm pleased to have you here with us today. Many people in our field consider you to be a national treasure.  I think our listeners would love to find out why and get the benefits of your wisdom.  So today well find out what Ray does to give women orgasmic delight.  We'll invite him to share some of his insights with us, and maybe even a few juicy secrets.  And Ray, here are my questions for you.  how do you give a woman an extended orgasm?   What do you do that's so special?  And what is the woman’s role in receive an extended orgasm?  So let's start with this, How do you define an extended orgasm? 

Ray Vetterlein:  Defining an extended orgasm is contractions.  Its a unit of measure, contractions, and it'll take the whole vaginal area, anus and right on through.  There’s really no such thing as separate orgasms, or clitoral orgasm, or anal orgasm, its all 'an orgasm.'  And the way to get women at that place is to have more attention on the woman than you do on yourself.  Where most men fail is they're always 'When do I get my entitlement?  There’s something mythic about themselves.  You have to do this and something’s going to happen to me'  You have to totally take all attention off of yourself and put all attention on the woman to the point where you're inside the woman's psychic energy field.  And when the woman is having an orgasm, or building towards orgasm, I personally feel it myself as if its happening to me.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, how would that be different from a regular orgasm, this extended orgasm?

Ray Vetterlein:  The average orgasm in a woman is like an orgasm in a man, it'll build, and then several contractions and then they'll shut it down and turn it off. Extended orgasm is to not have a time frame at all, just start and you can psychically work with the woman to stay there, and the orgasm instead of being one or two minutes, I ran the same continuous orgasm on a woman for three continuous hours.  I don't know what the limit is, I don't think there’s any.  It’s just self imposed.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, that sounds really fabulous.  I was wondering, could you give us an example of what one might look like for our listeners, or feel like...

Ray Vetterlein:  I would have to use 'feel like.'  I feel it myself.  If I don't feel it myself, I know the woman is not feeling it.  But it feels good for me doing it and she’s in contractions.  The extent I feel it is the extent she’s feeling it.  That’s a unit of measure.  And all limitations are self imposed.  All the woman has to do is be willing to surrender and not make judgments.  It can't be "because I'm too old or too young, or too fat, or too thin, or this that or the other thing  The attention has to be on the orgasm itself to release the sensual energy.  That’s all it is, its just a form of energy that builds in our bodies

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, what do you do to get a woman to begin to get started on having one of these dates.  How would a woman know that shoes going to be getting ready for an extended orgasm as opposed to a regular orgasm.  You mention the word psychic energy now twice, so I'm getting that there must be something that happens right away.

Ray Vetterlein:  Yes its all psychic, I know that sounds crazy but it’s like a level of awareness that we really haven't explored too much, and there’s an energy field around the body.  Everybody has it, every living thing. You can feel it yourself if you take your hand and move it slowly towards a woman, and you'll begin to feel it tingling in your hand, and the warmth.  If you pull it away, it goes down.  The woman feels the same thing.  And when you do that in the genital area or any other sensually collected area like the abdomen or the anus, earlobes and the back of the woman’s neck, they're all very sensitive areas, you can come a woman by just stroke her underneath her earlobes, you don't even have to touch her body even further than that.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, you've been doing this for over 40 years.  How long would someone, and of course your a mast at this.  How long did it take for you to learn how to start to get a woman off like this?  Is this a talent that you think is unique to you?  And how long would someone have to practice before they got or developed this ability?

Ray Vetterlein:  I think you would have to have dates with at least several hundred different women, because every woman is different.  Every woman’s system is different, every time you touch her.  No two woman’s sensual exchanges are the same, even with the same woman, even if you're married. Everyone is different, so you have to be totally flexible and responsive to each one.  And all I do is forget about what I'm feeling and I put my attention, I get into the woman's energy field, and I can just do it with my hands, usually by putting a hand on her abdomen and holding there for a moment or two, and pick up where she is and work with that and just play with her energy, not my energy, all I'm doing is facilitating her orgasm.  I'm not causing her orgasm I'm just making the space so she can do it herself.  The woman does it, the man has nothing to do with it.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So is this a talent that you learned from somebody, or is this something that you picked up on your own?

Ray Vetterlein:  There are two ways to learn it.  You can be taught it by someone that knows it.  I was training someone who knew nothing about it.  I would first want to a woman that I had worked with enough.  A trained woman for instance can go into orgasm by just putting your hand on her body, anyplace.  because she's totally trained to have an orgasm.  And a trained woman is easier to train a man on.  If I train a man on his girlfriend, then they're going to have all these limitations about "am I doing it right' or 'he doesn't love me' and all this, especially if it’s learned with strangers.  Someone who's your primary partner, because you've got all this emotional stuff going on
in a primary relationship that you don't with someone who's just there.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Ok, but you do feel that these qualities that you're talking about, in other words for learning extended orgasm, actually can be learned and taught to other people.  I'm just trying to think how someone could learn to give and receive an extended orgasm possibly with their partner, without having to be with hundreds of other people, is that something that’s possible?

Ray Vetterlein:  Of course its possible, but the most effective method is say, you could have ten lessons and have a couple there that want to be there.  I would show how to do it on another woman, a trained woman, and the couple would be there watching, and then what you would do is have the man depending on how open their relationship is, do the woman that’s the trained woman and instruct him as he's doing it, or have him start doing his girlfriend or wife or whoever his partner is.  Or sometimes I can do the woman and have the guy watch, it really depends on the circumstances.  Some guys are so possessive that they can't learn anything if its their own girlfriend you're teaching with, they think that she's untrue to them, and of course, that’s silly.  Its like swimming, you can learn to swim the pool fairly easy but with practice and intent you can swim the English channel, that’s just a matter of training and doing it and sustained orgasm is the same thing.  Its just an advanced study of it.  We'll train people to play tennis, we'll have tennis lessons and tennis instructors, but if you do have the same concept on sex, there’s certain things that work better than others, strokes you can use and certain positions.  If you approach sex as you would tennis or swimming you'll get there a lot faster.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So you're point is that watching someone who's a master, such as yourself or probably other people, is going to be an enormous benefit, if I understand and you feel that the psychic energy is of profound importance.  What percentage is psychic energy and what percentage do you feel is technique?  In what you do, at this point.

Ray Vetterlein: I would say over 95% psychic energy, and I've gotten some women I've done that I can do from across the room. Without even touching them, you can just do it telepathically, I know it sounds crazy but it does work.  The training itself, the important thing in teaching, is teaching from a trained woman, because once a woman sees another trained woman in a sustained orgasm, she knows its possible, she's seen another woman do it, and she’s smart enough to know that if that other woman can do it she can do it.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  And has this changed over time?  you've been doing this for forty years, you may be one of the.. well that’s just an amazing amount of time, and its been continuous for you, your in the field continuously doing this.  How has it changed since you first started doing it?  What percent was technique versus psychic energy when maybe you started in the first five years versus now.  what was the breakdown then?

Ray Vetterlein:  At first it was physical, the psychic thing came later, I didn't realize... Once I understood what it really was, when I learned that it was psychic energy, the stroking had very little to do with it.  When a woman is really turned on and engorged, and ready to go into heavy orgasm, you can almost stand on her clit and it will work.  There’s no master technique on doing it.  It’s a master technique on observing where the woman is and playing from there.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Do you think that’s where your mastery came in, when you made that sort of connection, letting go of that emphasis on the physical and going into the psychic?

Ray Vetterlein:  Yes, its was a gradual transition, it didn't happen with one incident, all of a sudden you realize you're in a total layer of psychic energy and the physical part, what you're doing with your hands is incidental. I don't pay any attention at all to what I'm doing with my hands when I'm doing a woman.  I have attention on where she is and the hands automatically do the right thing.  Its like driving a car, you're not thing about where your hands are on the wheel, or anything you're just driving it.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Thank you, we're going to take a short break to hear from our sponsors.  I promise you well with be right back.  For those of you that are interested, you can get in touch with Ray Vetterlein through writing me, [email protected]  Please stay tuned we will be right back.

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Dr. Patti Taylor:  We're back, and I'm Dr. Patti Taylor, and we're talking to Ray Veterlein about amazing extended orgasms.  Before the break we we're talking about how you give a woman an extended orgasm.  Ray, now I want to ask you about what you do that's so special?  Actually, I think we were talking about that so let’s just continue with that.  Do you think anybody does something else besides psychic energy or do the thin that everybody eventually comes around to psychic energy as the ultimate energy? 

Ray Vetterlein:  I believe that’s all you ever come from in the first place.  But you can't confront it, you have to assign the reaction from the woman to something other than psychic energy, you know, moving your finger on a clit with a certain touch, using a velvet touch with just Vaseline very lightly on he clit. all that’s nice but its not really what it is.  Its where your head is in relation to where the woman's head is sensually.  The woman is the one that comes, not the guy.  And you experience that trip with her.  Its like dancing.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, what actually I was going to say, what are some of the things that you do that are kind of special.  Going a little bit into the psychical now, or just some of the fun details.  Maybe you could describe one of you favorite frames from a date or two, just so our listeners might just get a taste or a flavor of what one of these dates might look like.  Just  something that’s fun for you to remember or maybe one or two of these.

Ray Vetterlein:  Well, I probably remember, I have one girlfriend for 25 years, she came in as a kid when she was 21 or 22. And it started out normally, I started out massaging her and doing her, and then building from there.  Then we became lovers, but we ended up to the point where we knew each other so well and so completely that when we were making out, she liked to cum fairly quickly, within five minutes which most women take a little longer.  After five minutes she started going to contractions and she'd go into what she called going over the edge, which is more of a fluttering, like a heart fluttering.  And after she went over the edge, she would then turn around and put sensual attention on you.  Now, you don't try to do each other at the same time, but you can do someone and have someone do you.  Two people doing each other at the same time is like two people standing up fucking in a hammock, it’s a little hard to do.  It can be done but it’s a little hard to do.  The most fun I've ever had with women was when I was able to put complete and absolute attention on them and then be able to surrender myself and have them put complete and absolute attention on me.  You don't have to tell them to do anything.  Again, if they're a trained woman, they'll do it almost automatically on a sensual basis.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I just want to say to our listeners that 'doing' is a term that is used for giving extended orgasmic clitoral pleasure to a woman.  so what would one of these really hot dates with a girlfriend.  What might it look like?

Ray Vetterlein:  I would generally start by massaging her back and getting her totally relax.  And then I would start doing her from the back, reaching down and using Vaseline and playing with her pussy from the back, and after the pussy the anal area all of those areas are just as sensitive, and after she's really engorged, turn her over and then start doing her with my hands and then, because we had that relationship I would suck her off and I'd go between using my hands and licking on her clit or sucking on her pussy.  And when heaviest on her putting attention on me would be when a woman's cumming.  After a woman's been cumming for a long period of time, if a woman sucks you off and is cumming as she is sucking you off, there is no higher energy release than that.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  And how long might this go on for, where she is in an over the edge orgasmic state and typically how long would this go on for, where she would be over the edge having contractions.

Ray Vetterlein: It depends, I've pushed it to three hours, and i don't think that’s where it is.  I learned very early there’s no such thing as a woman who couldn't be satisfied.  For example any woman twenty minutes into an orgasm when she starts contracting, twenty minutes, can be flattened out.  I mean the sensual energy is still there but its flat, you could stop right there and she feels fulfilled, but here’s no reason you can't keep going.  I think that’s the natural state.  Another girlfriend of mine in this business says that women are born that way and they're taught to shut it down.  So what you're doing is, you're not teaching something new to the woman, what you're doing is getting them to have it safe to surrender to go back to this normal state of orgasm. 

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I actually was there when she was doing a demonstration with you, and it was quite a spectacular thing to behold.  She was, fireworks, was the best word I could think of.

Ray Vetterlein:  Yeah, she just goes into that other universe, she’s just completely sensual, she forgets about the fact that I'm 60 plus years older than her didn't make any difference.  The fact that her boyfriend was holding her hand watching, and you were watching and other people were watching didn't bother her at all.  And then she went into the orgasm she was just into the orgasm and forgot, she knew it was her orgasm and wasn't something i was doing.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  She was caving labial contractions, abdominal contractions, clitoral... you know.

Ray Vetterlein:  All of it, I usually measure the extent of where a woman is in contractions.  If you use the sphincter muscle, you don't have to insert anything into the sphincter muscle, but just stroke it until its engorged, and you put one of your fingers on it and you can feel by the sphincter muscle where a woman is in the state of intensity of orgasm.  Almost all women will show that level that way.  In her case, she was right... you could turn her on anyplace.  I was able to cum by just touching her nipples and her breast in just a circular motion.  The breast would get erect, very heavily erect and then turn purple.  Down her breast would look like almost infection marks red marks going from the nipple on down.  That’s how turned on she was with no training and no background.  It was certainly nothing that I was doing, it was all her.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  That’s pretty astonishing.  Well we're going to have to pause for another break soon.  One quick question before we do.  Apotheosis, you developed that not too long ago.  Nice to see you're still coming up with new things all the time.  This is why you're considered a national treasure.  You're still at the height of your field.  Could describe that for us briefly?

Ray Vetterlein:  Well the word apotheosis is just a word that i made up.  I was working with a lady named Nicole, excellent, she was fairly well trained.  But even when she moved in and I took up with her, she was I guess about 40 years younger than I was now that I think of it.  But she would have an orgasm and go into contractions almost instantly.  And then just run for 15 minutes and stop.  and that was the way she had been trained in this group she was in.  And then one day she went over the edge and the end of the 15 minutes and instead of having the contractions slow down she went into this fluttering, the heart fluttering, and what she defined as going over the edge and she apologized for doing it.  She had been trained to not do that because this group was trying to use that sensual energy for production.  So then we experimented deliberately with this going over the edge, this fluttering, and were able to keep this fluttering stage going for up to ten minutes.  And the women defined it to me, her and the other women I had been with, as an exceptional experience where mind knows the answer to every question.  Its, some women who had done drugs defined it as an experience on drugs and some who hadn't done drugs as an experience up ultimate truth, they knew the answer to everything.  And a woman would stay there, what it is, sensual energy, instead of being pushed out in contractions the way I found you could do it was work with the woman and keep her in the apotheosis, the going over the edge stage, and at a certain point, have her, tell her, that’s again the report you've established with her, tell her, "now pull that energy in.  Don't push out, don't push that orgasm out, pull the orgasm into your body"  And you pull the orgasm into your body, she goes into this apotheosis which is kind of scary if you see it and don't know what it is.  Its just this statue where everything stops, you're not doing contractions anymore, you're hands are almost like a statue, but you can feel tremendous surges of energy going through her body, but the surges of energy weren't going out of her body, they were going in.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, thank you.  I'd like to... probably a lot of people are going "We'll sign me up I'll try that"

Ray Vetterlein: Ok its a, you have you, again the best way to learn that is be willing to watch a woman being done who has done it.  And once you see that it can be done without that.  The best way to teach anything sensually is to demonstrate with someone who knows how to do it.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I agree, especially when they get up and they're smiling and they're glowing in the dark or in the daylight when they look great, its a great advertisement.  but were going to pause and take a break and hear from our sponsors.  Once again, I'm talking to Ray Vetterlein, this is Dr. Patty Taylor and we will be right back.  And if you want to contact Ray Vetterlein, you can do so by contacting me at [email protected]  Please stay with us, we'll be right back.

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Dr. Patti Taylor:  Ok, were back, and I'm your host Dr Patti Taylor.  We're talking to Ray Vetterlein about amazing extended orgasms.  We've been talking about what you do that's so special Ray.  And now I walk to talk to you about what is the woman's role in receiving an extended orgasm.  And once again we kind of jumped the gun a little bit, but that’s ok seems to be the way it is today,  Its sort of hard to separate the men and the women anyway when you're talking about an extended orgasm. But lets continue, do women lie back and just receive pleasure, or do they take an active role?

Ray Vetterlein:  The way the woman can achieve the most out of it is to not to take an active role.  The problem with the women who are not experienced with it is that they're trying to do something themselves.  Either try to put sensual attention on you, or change something or do something, the real secret is to lie back and totally surrender, just lie back and let go, to the extent they are able to let go they can have more.  By the way, there’s multiple extended orgasm, it does not only apply to women, men can have the same thing.  And I've only experienced it a few times in my life.  This would train women around Morehouse who had been trained into it, but most women can't keep enough interest up for me personally to keep the guy cumming. I've only been able to stay in an orgasm myself for a half hour of sustained orgasm, with fluids coming out on a sustained basis.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Now if a woman... You believe, first of all, that a woman is most likely shut down by two things from our conversations we have had.  First of all maybe her conditioning is one, and is that correct.  I mean you said to me personally that society has shut most people down, and that maybe women are naturally born orgasmic and that this has been curtailed.

Ray Vetterlein: Yes, I believe that a woman's natural state is orgasmic, and little girls, if you watch them without slapping their wrist and all that type of stuff, will do themselves and play with themselves and have orgasms when they're very little.  And it depends on the culture.  Cultures change totally.  There are cultures where that’s perfectly appropriate. Cultures if you go to Islamic countries where the woman is totally wrong for anything sensually.  Its just varies, in America, we're coming out of a closed down stage.  Very Christian very moral in this country.  That’s how were all trained.  Its training having orgasms, and having sex as pleasure is not right.  The only reason to have sex is to have babies.  That’s the way I was trained when I was a little kid.  and I think were finally getting away from that, and maybe someday well have it the other way.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So between our heavy cultural conditioning, and also the fact that, you know, men have this conditioning too, just around sex for whatever it is.  Maybe no one has had all the training around how to make it feel good for a woman you know that could have had. I'm sure a lot of listeners are wondering "where do you start now to reverse all that conditioning and start to have, to help a woman open up"  What can a man do tonight, lets start with the men.  What can a man do tonight to actually go home and support a woman in feeling more orgasmic.

Ray Vetterlein:  Do what it takes to get her to a group where that is done and can be seen.  Once she has seen it, then if she wants to she can make a decision that she wants to experience it herself.  Most women do in most of the groups that are sensual groups that I've been around, the bait is the woman's sensuality, the woman's turn on.  Guys are attracted to that and are pulled in by it.  But its still the woman, the key to everything is the woman. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: So when you say a group, what kind of group do you mean, more specifically?

Ray Vetterlein: It could be any type of a group that has sex as appropriate and part of their practices.  Morehouse is where I learned that having intensive courses in sensuality, you can get anywhere from an evening talking about it for a few dollars, and spending fifty thousand to a hundred thousand being trained and certified in doing it.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So I'm guessing that where ever you are living there are probably very sex positive educational videos that are not porn, that are focused on putting attention on the woman, on the woman's pleasure, on how to get her more sensually feeling her pussy and best yet would be some kind of live training that would get her to see women that are waking up and being in that kind of conversation and that kind of a thing. How about for the women herself, what can she do to reverse the years of conditioning that would have her shut down either from the men in her life, or whether is accidental or intentional, or whatever, or even from society.  How can she start to reclaim her own sensual and sexual aliveness?

Ray Vetterlein: Having herself as right sensually the way she is. No matter what level of sensuality, if its just sitting on a stone meditating about god. If that’s what it is, start have whatever you're doing is right.  And then deliberately experiment. You can probably deliberately experiment with yourself, by looking at yourself in the mirror, or at different parts of your body, by touching and feeling the connections and nerves sensually.  And doing yourself, one of the best training methods I know is for the woman to have a hose in the bathtub, and lie back in a warm bath and just let the water flow out of the tube on her clit, doesn't have to touch it or anything.  Just let the water flow on it.  And that will generally bring a woman to orgasm without too much trouble.  Once she gets past he first orgasm and she knows she  did it, there’s no stopping it. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: So water hose in the bathtub is a great way to have, to train yourself as a woman to train yourself to go into extended orgasmic states?

Ray Vetterlein:  Yes, its one of the best methods I know of, other than getting around a group of people who are physically doing it as part of a practice.  And there’s a lot of them around out there.  Some of them are very straight, some are very promiscuous.  Maybe I can compare it with dancing.  If you wanted to learn to dance and be a good dancer, I would suggest you go out and take dance lessons and dance with different people. You can take one person, and one person only, and learn to dance with them, and dance with them, but as far as really learning it, you're going to learn more taking lessons with lots of people.  Just do this same thing with sensuality.  You don't have to be in love with the person or... No matter who you have the relationship with there’s a thing I call rapport, where that intimacy that’s shared between you establishes a rapport.  A closeness an affinity for each other. Freud is an example who uses hypnosis for treating patients. But he couldn't handle the relationship that he developed with the subject that he was working with, and ended up sitting at the head of the couch and talking with them using word association so he didn't have to face intimacy. Its all intimacy.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Wow, so again, were back to, it’s not physical with the woman, and its not the technique so to be sure you have the report.  Is it ever too late, if a woman hasn't been sensual for a while. They say use it or lose it, you've been going strong for forty years. and quite honestly, you look phenomenal, but what if a woman's been out of the picture for  while and she’s feeling kind of rusty and creaky.  Is it ever too late to get back on the horse and get started again?  I mean maybe were being a little theoretical because you're a guy, but what would your training and you instinct tell you?

Ray Vetterlein:  I think it could happen at anytime.  My experience as using age as an example, most of the women that could surrender to orgasm and really get into it are usually at least 25. Now it does happen to teenagers, but I'm sure it can happen the other way.  But I would say that 25-40 is where I found that I've hit the woman that have learned the fastest and move the fastest. A lot of women as they get towards the late thirties all of those baby things got coming through which obviously are sexual demands.  In woman that are post-menopausal I don't know, I'd really like to do some study on that.  I don't think it makes any difference, its just a matter of deliberateness. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Do you think the best women use psychic energy to be good receivers the same way you are using your psyche to be a good giver, they're using that to be a good receiver?

Ray Vetterlein: Oh absolutely yes.  Men are receivers only.  I know that sounds nutty, but on the sensual stuff, its all the woman, they pick up the woman, they feel the woman, all animals are that way.  When the female dog is in heat, all the male dogs around are barking, all that sort of stuff. Its no different because you're in a human body. And so when you're putting out the chemicals that make the scent or the energy, everybody is attracted to you.  And I think I last the question someplace.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Ok, your a master of the psyche as a giver, and of course you're a receiver too, but you're your a master of the giver.  Does it work in reverse? Is the woman a master as the receiver?  A woman that’s a great cummer, is she mastering of her psyche too?

Ray Vetterlein:  Absolutely, men are generally just the receivers of sensual energy. They can read it but they're the receivers of it.  They're not the starters of it.  Most guys think they have something to do with turning a woman on, which is pure bullshit.  But a woman can both give and receive  The highest sensual experience I've ever had in my life, having dates with two woman with myself at one time. The other two women can both give and receive sensual energy, and that will push the sensual energy cycle up.  I felt I could have been up on the ceiling of the room looking down at what’s happening.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  That sounds like fun.  Well, we're almost out of time. So, I have on final question for you.  You're turning 81 this week.  what is your growing edge as a giver of pleasure?  What are you really challenged to learn as a giver?  What is your fun growing edge right now?

Ray Vetterlein:  The think I want to learn and I really don't understand, is after women go through menopause, I find there is a lower sensual having level in the ones I've had dates with straight through.  And I don't' know why that is, and I don't know the way past it.  I think its just another thing that has to be studied.  There’s just no early logical why women can't continue to be a sensual animal just because she no longer wants to have babies.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well thank you, and maybe one more final question. How has you life been changed by giving so much pleasure to women? 

Ray Vetterlein: I've enjoyed it.  I've learned that women are much more fun to be around than guys.  I'd much rather be around women than men any time.  Women can play at many different levels. Where guys are very goal oriented, one thing...  And if I had a choice between living in a world of men and world of women I certainly would choose a world of women.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So, you've had a lot of chance to be around a lot of women with the life you've lead.  Thank you very much.  Thank you very much.  Thank you Ray Vetterlein for sharing your world of wisdom with us today.  Join us next week when we talk about pleasure education and sensuality.  That brings us to the end of our show. Thank you so much for listening. Please write to me at [email protected]  If you want to want to ask Ray Veterlein any questions at all, or if you have any questions about our show.  This is your host Dr Patti Taylor.  Thats all for now. I remain yours in ever expanding love making and I'll see you next week.  Bye.