Episode 25 - Shamanic Sacred Union: Unifying Sex, Heart, Body & Mind with Baba Dez, founder of Tantric Temples in Sedona Arizona, and The Big Island of Hawaii
Shamanic Sacred Union: Unifying Sex, Heart, Body & Mind with Baba Dez, founder of Tantric Temples in Sedona Arizona, and The Big Island of Hawaii
Announcer: This program is intended for mature audiences only.
Francesca Gentille: Welcome to Sex, Tantra and Kamasutra, bringing you the soul of sex. With me today is Baba Dez who teaches sacred sexual healer, the ancient temple art, who is a sexual sermon himself. He has been teaching for 20 years and he has a temple, a temple of love in Arizona and soon in the big island of Hawai.
Baba Dez: …and so if you’re wanting to be able to hold space for your beloved and you’re wanting to really create that intimacy and that safety, you’ve got to be able to do that for yourself. You’ve got to be able to learn how to hold space for your own heart, for your own emotional body and for your own physical body.
Practices of meditation support us to slow down the mind and to move more into being able to feel and just bringing awareness to the breath for instance, there are different practices where we actually fit and we’re connecting them to different aspects of our emotional body.
Tell me about your dreams and your desires, what are your fears, what has upset you? What has made you angry? What really gets you in rage and to really hold space and listen to each other so that those feelings can come up and lived through.
Francesca Gentille: Welcome Baba Dez.
Baba Dez: Thank you, good to be here.
Francesca Gentille: And I am delighted to have you here and to be talking with a male practitioner, so far this show has had mostly women and yet we know that there are wonderful adept men out there and I wanted to talk with you about your experience as a male practitioner what you teach and what you’re seeing out there but maybe to start, what do you have to tell our listening audience about being a man in this field?
Baba Dez: Well it’s interesting to feel like one of the things that’s really big on the planet right now, is that there’s been a continuum of the unhealthy masculine on this planet and those traits of the unhealthy masculine have been undermining the communion and the possibility of what can really come into existence with as far as sacred union for men and women.
So bringing on those traits of the healthy masculine I feel is really important right now and I want to say healthy masculine, I am talking about those traits and aspects in both men and women that that archetype of what it means, what is the healthy masculine and who is he and how can he make a difference on the planet right now.
Francesca Gentille: Could you help us, I love that because male and female will carry masculine traits and so we’re not saying men are bad women are great but we’re saying that there’s some traits out there that have just become a bitch world on the planet that are blocking us from the kind of list, you know passion union we want. So could you tell us what are the unhealthy and so we know about that and then what are the healthy that we wanted continue to develop in ourselves?
Baba Dez: Well the unhealthy masculine you know, it’s that part that’s in competition, that’s in fear, that’s in control and manipulation, that has learned to get what he wants through cohesion and control, manipulation and fear and it’s that fear or the lack of embracing the fear than the unhealthy qualities that perpetuate that separation.
So we all have reference points of what that feels like, not being listened to, not feeling safety, not really feeling the spaciousness that is required to feel into what can really make a lasting difference and so if you have an unhealthy trait, what are the healthy traits and one of the things that I love to share with people is that the healthy masculine does the very important things.
He witnesses without judgment, he creates safety and he holds space and what I mean by holding space is that it’s kind of like ok, I want everything to be ok now and I want everybody to get along and let’s do it now, as opposed to being able to hold space for what is it, what are the thoughts, what are the feelings, what are the emotions that need to be embraced so that there’s an opening, so that there’s safety to be witnessed and be heard and show up in a way that is free of judgment because often times the emotional body which I draw parallel to the feminine, the emotional body of holding things and it’s holding past wounds, resentment, fear and in that place of resentment and fear and holding on to, there’s really no place to grow, there’s no safety to move through that territory and feel embraced so that communion can happen.
Francesca Gentille: You know, I love that you’re talking about this because it’s you know, once again what we want in the vision is that we’re, we have this passionate spontaneous, delicious you know, sexuality and flow of arrows of the energy with the people that we’re attracted to and they feel it right back and it just, you know it just outflows, it just don’t happen and not just in those first dates but you know, always and forever, that’s what we want and what I am hearing is that this, you know, the stuck places where we’ve had, you know hurts, rejections, traumas, losses, we’re holding them in our emotional body which is that feminine part of ourselves and that kind of the key to unlock this, the key to release that energy so that we can go back into this passionate world is in the masculine self with that strong capability if we grow it to [xx] and I am sensing, checking with me here if this is correct, is that male and female if someone is in front of me and they’re crying or they’re raging or they’re expressing fear and even if it has my name all over it, Francesca yourself, Francesca you make me so, that if I am, it’s even that strong masculine self I would just read I wouldn’t take it personally, I would understand that this was an emotional relief for this person that would ultimately be very healthy for them if I can just hold it without taking it in or taking it on, not pushing it away but not taking it in and on the other side of this release of kind of the uncomfortable emotions is going to be greater access, greater ability for me with this person for the yummie things of love and passion and harmony. Is that what you think?
Baba Dez: Exactly, the unhealthy masculine says get over it. Get over it, you know I don’t want to hear about it anymore and the healthy masculine says, tell me more, I want to know everything you’re feeling. I want to witness you, I want to know about all the things that you’re feeling and all the things that you’re afraid of and all of those feelings that need to come out so that she feels heard.
Francesca Gentille: Or that he feels heard.
Baba Dez: She feels supported, she feels loved and she feels acceptance for what it is she’s feeling and when I say he and she, I am speaking about the he and she within us all and so if you’re wanting to be able to hold space for your beloved and you’re wanting to really create that intimacy and that safety, you’ve got to be able to do that for yourself and you’ve got to be able to learn how to hold space for your own heart, for your own emotional body and for your own physical body to really speak with you.
Francesca Gentille: This is big Dez and I really, I want to go into it more, how do we do that for ourselves, you know and so that we build a foundation inside ourselves and are able to do that so that we can do that for others and I want to talk about that more after we come back from a break and a word from our sponsors.
Francesca Gentille: Welcome back to Sex, Tantra and Kamasutra, bringing you the soul of sex. Talking today with Baba Dez who is a sexual showman, a leader of the love temple in Arizona, who teaches sacred sexual temple art to other sexual healers and we were just talking about how important it is to hold one’s own emotional, not hold it back but have allow in and embrace and have compassion for one’s own emotional state and Dez will just going to tell us how do we do that?
Baba Dez: You know, basically what’s happening is I like to lease the term that we’re polishing our link with divine and divine meaning god or god, goddess or that higher power and we are all walking temples, we’re all barometers for, or rather conduits for that divine energy and the thing is that that as we embody those healthy masculine traits then we can start polishing the link with that seeing and knowing because we have that inside of us and what’s happened for most of us is we, through our conditioning we’ve become very disconnected with that.
So how do we reconnect? How do we reconnect with the wisdom that lives with inside of us and in this culture where under the misunderstanding that wisdom is in the mind and so the mind has become very strong and powerful and we learned that in school, the kids growing up that are for smart enough or clever enough, then we will be successful and the other trait is that if we’re attractive enough or beautiful enough that we’ll be successful.
So there’s a lot of credence put on the minds and the body in this culture and what hasn’t been given enough attention is our connection with our hearts and our emotional bodies and not too many, we’re not taught as young kids that hey if you have a strong connection or if you’re very feeling being or you have a lot of love or you have a big heart that you’re going to be successful and so those parts of ourselves have been atrophy. They haven’t really developed, they haven’t really grown and so much emphasis has been put on the mind and the body where we need to really polish that link with our true wisdom because wisdom does not live in the mind, wisdom comes from our body and our belly and our heart.
And so, if we can really open up and really receive the wisdom that comes up to the mind then the mind can correlate that information and make amazing decisions that create a divine reflection.
Francesca Gentille: So how do we do that Dez so I am one of these people in the world today and my mind is always racing, you know what do I think, what does she think, what should I do, how should I strategize, you know this is getting out of control, I need to be in control so my mind’s always racing. How do I catch myself and shift that to be in the heart wisdom and you know, for many of us and I was one of those people, I was you know, stop crying, I am going to give you something to cry about, I mean it’s hit the cry, I lost my ability to cry but you know, I lost my ability to be angry, so how do you, what do people do to shift into their heart and to grow that muscle?
Baba Dez: Well, that’s really what conscious awareness is all about and that’s really a spiritual path that’s all about and so there are a lot of things that we can do consciously, unconsciously that come to us, practices of mediation support us to slow down the mind and to move more into being able to feel and just bringing awareness to the breath for instance, notice what’s happening with our breathing, notice what’s happening with our body chemistry, notice what our hearts are feeling and notice where the emotions are bubbling up because if we can start giving ourself permission to feel deeper then we start polishing that link and so many people are afraid to feel. They’re afraid to feel because it feels like that there’s a huge dam behind that and if I start feeling now, I am going to be overwhelmed and I am going to lose control and that’s basically the ego or the mind telling us I am the one who’s running the show, you need to pay attention to me and yet the mind has no wisdom.
So there’s a real catch 22 there and so as we start bringing in different practices that get us into our bellies, that bring us into our bodies and bring us into our heart as we start feeling what that feels like and we start feeling the rewards and what we call the nectar of true wisdom, once you start tasting it, you just can’t get enough and that starts the process of going deeper and deeper and deeper into your power and into your knowing and into your wisdom.
Francesca Gentille: Yeah, so what I hear you saying is that you know, it can feel frightening based on the way that many of us were raised, you know to, that you know be shamed around our emotions or hid around our emotions is it’s understandable that we were carrying this fear and yet there is another side, there’s light at the end of the tunnel, it’s a myth that our mind is carrying that it’s unsafe and at times, you know it is true that even today that those people might not always celebrate our emotions and yet we get to, could you, you know I would say it for myself you know, to our listening audience that what Dez is saying is absolutely accurate. I was one of those shut down people, it was hard to open up, now that I am someone who has access to my emotions, I am a much more passionate person, I have also more joy in life and I have better relationships and there were some little bumpy points along the way where instead of embracing or owning my own emotions, they sort of mute them off other people for a while and I was trying to get used to them and do you have a story from your own life or have you always been the enlightened being, or you made it to a visit or…?
Baba Dez: It’s self awareness, it’s self awareness and it’s like how many times have you been in a conversation with someone or yourself and the question comes up well how do you feel and often times there’s this huge silence and there’s this answer of I don’t know, I don’t know how I feel. I don’t know what I want. Often times it’s I don’t even know who I am and aside from the story that we’ve been conditioned to tell ourselves about who we are and so it’s like be in that space of being able to ask the question and really feel into it is where the answer start coming.
So again, you know it’s like well, how do we feel and how do we polish that link with our ability to feel and so there comes in all the spiritual practices and the shemonic practices that actually bring those things up to the surface because if we know who we are on a deeper level and we know how we feel and we know what we want, it’s a lot easier to manifest our desires and if we’re not clear about that, we’re not going to be able to clearly manifest what we truly desire.
Francesca Gentille: So the steps to having what we want, first we have to know what it is we want, second we have to believe we deserve it and both of those steps are simple but they’re not easy and what I hear you saying is that that the noticing, first they start to check in to my own body and my feeling uncomfortable or comfortable, am I you know, is this my stomach, is this not when I think about this or there’s dry feel of sense of calmness or peace and then the permission, I love that you said giving oneself permission even to saying to myself or and the listening audience we can say right now, I give myself permission to feel my feelings and know what I want.
Baba Dez: Well and you know Francesca in this culture, there’s so much distraction from our feeling and for so many people in this, we deadened and we distance ourselves through drugs, through alcohol, through work addiction and all kinds of things that basically disconnect us from our true power and our true wisdom and our true knowing.
So almost all spiritual practices or all conscious practices start with awareness and a real simple place to take it is awareness with the breath and if we notice what’s happening in our breath and we start actually feeling in our body chemistry, one of the most powerful tools is that self-awareness where we can actually feel wow, I am in contraction here, I can feel in my belly, I can feel in my heart, I can feel in my body where I am not really fully present and until you start gaining the reference point for what it feels like to be present and to actually feel your feeling it’s kind of like, you know what are you talking about, there’s just no reference point for it.
So we need to start really cultivating that awareness and that deepening awareness that just keeps going deeper and deeper and deeper into that place of knowing.
Francesca Gentille: You know, Dez I want to talk more about how do we access those places of knowing and you mentioned before, shemonic practices, that was really intriguing to me, after we come back from a break and a word from our sponsors.
Francesca Gentille: Welcome back to Sex, Tantra and Kamasutra with Baba Dez who teaches sacred sexual healer and who has a temple of sacred art in Arizona and soon in Hawai and Baba Dez, we were just talking about this deeper and deeper sense of knowing our own bodies, our emotions through the breath and I was asking you how can we bring that knowing for ourselves into our beloved and what are those shemonic practices that we bring to ourselves and apply that.
Baba Dez: I mentioned earlier how there are connections and those aspects of let’s say the heart and the emotional body have become atrophied and they’re really not very strong and so the picture I’d like to paint is just like how we exercise the physical body, we exercise different muscles to bring in more tone and more strength, we do the same thing with our emotional bodies.
And so there are different practices, the way we actually sit and we’re connecting into different aspects of our emotional body. So in a safe place maybe what we’ll do is we’ll actually intend to touch our sadness and we’ll intend to actually touch and invoke our grief or our rage or our anger because there’s so many of us, we press those emotions away and there they’re being judge is not healthy and not savory and yet if we can develop a friendship and a safety for those different emotions and we can move through an entire rainbow of emotions and sit down let’s say in meditation or take a few moments and go, ok I am going to touch my anger now, I am going to touch my sadness, I am going to touch my grief, I am going to touch my rage and actually allow that chemistry to move to our body so that we’re not afraid of it anymore so that it’s not judged and a lot of the ancient techniques there would be music, there would be dance, there would be different things that would invoke all these different emotional experiences so that they can move through us and as they move through us, we come into the next state, we come into the next state of our being because just like a child will show us or a young baby or a child or maybe they’re upset in one moment and if they’re allowed to express that and allowed to move, all of a sudden, they’re back in a place of balance again. They’re back in a place of integration where they’re actually able to be in happiness.
So they maybe crying one moment but then they’re smiling and laughing the next moment whereas if it’s pushed away and it’s denied what happens is it becomes submerged and buried and those emotions never really come out, they’re never really given acceptance and we distance ourself from our emotional body.
So what we want to do is we want to exercise the emotional body more and more and you can get support from this, there’s a lot of, that’s why I would recommend seeing a darker, a dakini or a practitioner and learning how to exercise the emotional body so that you can start on this path and getting it stronger and stronger and stronger.
You can also hold space with your partner or your beloved and create a time of safety, maybe you’re lying in bed and you have some candles lit and it’s really nice and you ask each other, how are you feeling? Well tell me about your dreams and your desires, what are your fears, what has upset you, what has made you angry, what really gets you in rage and to really hold space and listen to each other so that those feelings can come up and move through.
So again, we’re creating more acceptance for a lot of the things that most people just kind of brush aside, the feeling like they’re not going to…if I am, the great example is if I am feeling sad or I am feeling angry, well that’s not a conducive place to make love or further my agenda to have a sexual exchange and yet if we create a space to move through that territory first we’re going to be so much more present to actually how the deeper connection and really experience what’s extraordinary around love in our lovemaking rather than being just some concept of what hot sex is, what really makes sex hot, just having our emotional bodies fully engaged.
Francesca Gentille: You know Dez, I completely agree with you. I am a mother and I work a lot and if I was going to wait until I was happy, energized you know, not tired, there was nothing that I was concerned about to make love, I wouldn’t ever make love and my lover and I, when I am angry, I say you know, lay down honey, I climb on top of them and I say, is it ok if I bring my anger and my anger at you and he being an amazing, you know lover says yes and I will beat on his chest and say I am so angry with you, why we’re having intercourse and it’s passion and it’s energy and you know we cry, we laugh, it’s all of it’s there and it makes it so rich and exciting. I am so glad that you brought that up and that we want to set aside time you known in time, I would say an hour or two to have that, the lit candles and let the emotions be present because the wavelengths of the hearts, the tempo of the hearts is slower than the tempo of the mind which races.
So I just, you just bring up such great points and to mention that you know, Dockers and Dakinis which are the kind of the healers, the guides, the coaches around sacred sexuality are wonderful people to go to, tantriks and tantrikas as well as life coaches, shemonic coaches, therapists, any one who really that we trust that is going to help us really access our emotions and move through them and of course it’s a wonderful temple in Arizona where people can come visit, yes?
Baba Dez: Yes, and if you go to sedonatemple.com there’s actually a page of practitioners and what’s really important for me is there’s so many people who teach sex and sex practices and tantra and everything like that and yet they really don’t have a deep basis of really working shemonically with the emotional body.
So I would say that if you’re looking for a practitioner to work with, really feel into the place of how much mastery does this person have around holding space for that connection with the emotional body because you can learn lots of sexual techniques, a lot of physical techniques and a lot of mental techniques and again, that’s just reinforcing the continuum of the mind and the body and what we’re really wanting to do is we’re wanting to move into a place where we’re really creating love, more space and bringing up exercise the heart and the emotional body, that’s the emphasis there and also I know that there’s a lot of practitioners out there that when you start moving into emotional territory often times they’re not comfortable with it because they haven’t done that work themselves.
Francesca Gentille: Absolutely, so we’re really saying that the magic of the blitz and ecstatic union of sexuality is through the pathway of the emotional body and I just want to thank you again Dez, we’ve run out of time but I want to thank you again for bringing that core wisdom to us and being my guest here today.
Baba Dez: Thank you very much Francesca, it’s really fun and I look forward to sharing more.
Francesca Gentille: Me too, thank you and thank you our listening audiences for tuning in to Sex, Tantra and Kamasutra, bringing you the soul of sex. If you would like a transcript from this show, if you’d like the url that how to reach Baba Dez and other interesting information, you can find that at www.personallifemedia.com and you can also leave phone messages for us at (206) 350 5333. Thank you for joining us today.
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