Episode 25: Fetishes & Fantasies with Virgie Tovar

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“They have inspired moans, squirms, orgasms, prolonged suction sessions, groping, ogling, tears, several invocations of deities, mothers and the holy virgin Mary, as well as unnumbered tales of frustration and blue-balls”, writes Virgie Tovar about her 40 DD breasts.

In this entertaining episode Dr. Lori Buckley interviews breast fetishist, Virgie Tovar, where Virgie tells us about her love and obsession with breasts. Dr. Lori & Virgie discuss the difference between a fetish and a fantasy, and Virgie tells us about her experiences and what she’s learned as a sex phone operator.

Transcript

Dr. Lori Buckley: Welcome. You are listening to On the Minds of Men and I’m your host Dr. Lori Buckley. Today I have a very interesting guest. Her name is Virgie Tovar, she’s a 25 year old San Francisco Sexpert, breast activist and author of a newly released erotic autobiography, it’s called Destination DD: Adventures of a Breast Fetishist with 40DD. This is the first book that is written by a female fetishist on the subject of fetishism. So, she’s a very interesting woman. Virgie currently teaches courses in falatio, g-spot stimulation, erotic self-discovery and erotic writing. One of her greatest passions is discovering and indulging men’s fantasies as a phone sex operator, a profession she’s enjoyed for five years, and we are going to talk about that. Virgie is also featured on Play Boy Radio and Women’s Entertainment Television and she’s a blogger for Fox
Magazine. So we’re going to have all her information and we’re going to be talking about fetishes and fantasies and, you know what, it’s okay, and how do you take these fetishes or fantasies and use them to your advantage, well we’re going to be talking about that today with Virgie Tovar.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Tell the listeners exactly what a fetish is?

Virgie Tovar: It’s really an erotic fixation on an object, and it also kind of connotes this psychological, I don’t know, “issue”, quote, unquote, I don’t like that word, but it basically relates to your not being able to receive arousal or the type of arousal from anything else.

Virgie Tovar: I finally felt completely satisfied thinking only about breast interestingly enough.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, and like you said, well that’s a great thing, you don’t want to lose that, but wouldn’t it be nice if there could be other things and, you know, you bring a good point up, which is a quote that you wrote in your book, something that you said which I thought was really interesting was that “Fetishism makes orgasm easy and relationships hard.”

Virgie Tovar: My first sort of full raise into sexuality with other people was through phone sex, because I was extraordinarily shy, I was brought up religious and I was, I was very guilt ridden around my, there was a lot of guilt around my sexuality. And so, I didn’t want to go right into physical behavior.

Virgie Tovar: My pussy made a noise or my foot slipped or I was wearing satin on the satin sheets and I slipped off. I mean all these things happen and just having somebody who kind of can just dust you off and just say, “Keep on going. You’re so hot, you’re so sexy”…

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah.

Virgie Tovar: Big piece of advice to have.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Welcome Virgie, it’s so great to have you on the show.

Virgie Tovar: Thank you, thank you for having me.

Dr. Lori Buckley: You know, you’re such an interesting woman. You know I have your book here, looking at your breasts as we speak. They’re quite lovely. I want to, want to talk to you, well actually let me just, let me just read what you wrote about your breasts in your book.

Virgie Tovar: Okay.

Dr. Lori Buckley: I love this. “They have inspired moans, squirms, orgasms, prolonged suction sessions, groping, ogling, tears, several indications of deities, mothers and the holy Virgin Mary, as well as unnumbered tales of frustration and blue balls.” I think that, that kind of says it all about your breasts. I think that’s maybe what started this. Now your book is about, well it’s called Adventures of a Breast Fetishist With 40DD, so you have fabulous breasts, 40DD, and you happen to be a breast fetishist.

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: So, tell me how that kind of plays in, how did that come to be, do you think there’s a correlation there?

Virgie Tovar: Well you know it’s, I have to say on some level yes, on another level no because my fetish was already in full bloom way before I even had breasts. I was breastfed until I was about 4 and I, I’m pretty sure the fetish probably started around then because it was at that point that I started to orgasm, masturbate and orgasm thinking about breasts and watching breasts on television. For example, I was raised just like all the rest of American males, masturbating to Susan Sommers. And even women, even women who weren’t sort of as overtly sexual, you know, people like Roseanne Barr really, I mean just women who had breasts, obviously everyone has breasts, most women have breasts that are noticeable.

Dr. Lori Buckley: On TV.

Virgie Tovar: Yeah, on TV. Yeah, exactly. And I just found myself completely aroused when I would see them, just making out the shape of the breasts, and I was just crazy for them before, and then to speak to my big breasts now, I think it definitely plays a huge role in certainly my personal sexual life, maybe not as much my fantasy life because my fantasy life is very, I’m not very, I’m not a big part of my fantasy life to be honest. It’s a lot of third person observation, that I’m just watching these naughty scenes go on that I create in my, in my brain.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Now we’re going to talk more about the difference between fetish and fantasy, but I think it’s, it’s that you bring it up right now and that’s really interesting. So clearly there’s some, it sounds to me from what you’re saying there’s some connection between being breastfed until you were 4 years old…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: And then all of a sudden connecting that with, I guess being conditioned to, you know, the breast and pleasure and then that, that sort of carrying over into your sex life really quickly.

Virgie Tovar: Right, well the interesting thing about a fetish Lori is that I mean, they’re, I mean somebody could have been breastfed until they were 18 and not have a breast fetish.

Dr. Lori Buckley: True.

Virgie Tovar: And it’s possible that I could have been breastfed for 3 months and still had this breast, it’s just amazing how it kind of plays out in the wiring of a person’s brain. It just, it could, it could’ve not have happened, you know what I mean?

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, and I think if somebody was breastfed until they were 18, we’d have some other issues going on. That’s a whole other show. That’s a whole other show. Well lets start here because, you know, we’re talking about fetishes and it’s something, it’s a word that is I think often overused or misused. Can you tell the listeners exactly what a fetish is?

Virgie Tovar: Well the, you know, it’s, my definition, and I’m going to tell you the difference between my definition and sort of the psychological academic definition, it’s really an erotic fixation on an object, and it also kind of connotes this psychological, I don’t know, “issue”, quote/unquote, I don’t like that word, but it basically relates to your not being able to receive arousal or the type of arousal from anything else besides this object, and for some fetishists it’s literally only that object that can get them off. For me, for a long time it was only breasts, and until, up until recently actually, when I was 24 I was able to start fantasizing about, you know, intercourse and masturbating and orgasm and thinking about penises for example. That was completely off the menu until I was 24 years, I mean I remember the first time I orgasmed thinking about a penis and I cried because I was so excited, but anyway, that’s off topic, I’m sorry.

Dr. Lori Buckley: No, it’s actually, it’s very much on topic, so, so now the definition you gave, is that your definition or what you think is the psychological academic definition?

Virgie Tovar: I would say that it’s the, it’s definitely a working definition, it’s not mine, but it’s a definition that I have found that is the least offensive because a lot of times the definitions I’ve read kind of connote the psychological disorder, and I don’t think of my fetish as a disorder.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Virgie Tovar: So, that’s my problem with those sorts of definitions.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah and, you know, I’m a psychologist so I can tell you how I feel about that, I’m with you on your definition. When people come in with, quote/unquote, a “fetish”, because again some people, they misuse the word, they think that if they are aroused by something and they don’t feel really comfortable with it, they feel that they have a fetish where it may not be the only way that they can experience arousal…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: or sexual pleasure, so we talk about sometimes it’s just normalizing that and saying, “Hey, you know, so fantasies are fantasies, this is something that turns you on, whether you think about it or whether you do it and not hurting anybody and it’s something you enjoy, go for it.” Now, in your case, there are people, like what you described at the beginning up until you were 24 when you were only able to experience orgasm through thinking about breasts, now for some people if they just have that narrow sexual response…

Virgie Tovar: Mm hmm.

Dr. Lori Buckley: they could be okay with that, but most of the time or the people that I see, I probably don’t see the other people who are okay with it, they would like to expand that sexual response.

Virgie Tovar: Right, right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: So when they come in, it’s like okay, you don’t need to lose your, your fetish or your fantasy ‘cause it’s something that you enjoy, so enjoy it. However, if you want to expand your sexual response so you can enjoy other, other forms of arousal or visuals or behavior, sexual behaviors, then we can work on that as well, and it sounds like that’s what you are doing right now.

Virgie Tovar: Well yeah, I mean in a lot of ways I think it was organic because I, I didn’t, I wanted to expand the repeteroire I guess you could say, but I didn’t exactly know how and I didn’t really, I had spoken to a few, I had spoken to a psychotherapist and they just felt like it was, my fetish was treated as if it were something that needed to be cured and I really didn’t want it to go away, like you were saying, I didn’t want it to go away, I just wanted to have some kind of variety on the menu.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.

Virgie Tovar: And it was, actually it’s funny because I found that I wanted more variety more out of satisfying partners, which is hugely important to me than anything less. I found myself completely satisfied thinking only about breasts interestingly enough.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, and like you said, well that’s a great thing, you don’t want to lose that, but wouldn’t it be nice if there could be other things and, you know, you bring a good point up, which is a quote that you wrote in your book, something that you said which I thought was really interesting was that “Fetishism makes orgasm easy and relationships hard.” Can you talk about that ‘cause I think that plays in with what you’re talking about now.

Virgie Tovar: Yeah, definitely. I was, as I said, I was orgasmic from around the age of 4, maybe 5, you know, from that point forward, and I started interacting with men, you know, I’m heterosexual, when I was about 17 and it was only at that point that I realized that my fetish was a problem and because it was something that was so exciting for me I was, and I’ve always been a very forthright person, so I let my partners know right away, “I have this breast fetish, I don’t orgasm with men, alright, alright, lets have a relationship”, and for most, most partners, I think men I’ve experienced, they certainly want their partner to experience orgasm with, with their help, you know, or with some kind of stimulation on their part.

Dr. Lori Buckley: They want, they want to be a part of the…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: of the pleasure…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: they just want to make you happy and know that they’re contributing to your orgasms and, you know, knowing that this is, that this is partner sex and that’s important, so before you were able to experience great pleasure and orgasms and all you needed to do was, you know, either visualize or fantasize about breasts.

Virgie Tovar: Right, exactly and it was, it was a solo act, so I was a one woman show when it came to orgasm.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, which is, you know, hey, lets not knock that. There’s something to be said for that, and did you find a way that you could, even without expanding your sexual response to other kinds of things like penises, did you find that you were able to involve men in your fetish and, and still have a good time?

Virgie Tovar: Well it slowly progressed. If I can back up for one second though, I’ll answer that in one sec. One thing that I did find when I first started having relationships, was that it was the first time that my sexuality, my sexual orientation came into question because men were saying, “Alright, you like men, but you only think about breasts which are on women”, and it’s hard to explain it, I’m like, “Oh no, no, the fetish, the breasts are, they happen to be on women. The fetish has to do with only the breasts”, you know.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, and I would imagine a lot of our listeners are thinking the exact same thing, they’re thinking, “Oh, come one…

Virgie Tovar: Right.
Dr. Lori Buckley: She’s a lesbian.”

Virgie Tovar: Right, right, exactly, and I…

Dr. Lori Buckley: But you’re not.

Virgie Tovar: No, I’m not, and the funny thing is that I’ve, you know, my partners encourage me to explore that and just say, “You know, I think you’re a lesbian. Maybe you want to look into that”, and I, I wrote in the book, you know, I said, all these questions came up, like, you know, maybe I need to chick with a dick, maybe I need a woman, maybe I need the right therapist or the right hypnosis or something like that, and I found that that wasn’t the case. Now to get back to your question that you just asked, I have slowly evolved, so it started out with men watching me masturbate as I thought about breasts and that slowly, very slowly evolved into my ability to orgasm while they’re stimulating me and I’m fantasizing. So it might be something kind of foreplay like, you know. Just the other day I was able to orgasm while a partner was sucking on my nipples and just kind of touching me a little bit. Just being really, just being really sweet and gentle, but still kind of naughty and I was able to fantasy and I masturbated and I came within about probably two minutes, it was really, it was a really yummy experience.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, so obviously you were very aroused.

Virgie Tovar: Oh, yeah, definitely. And it really matters what your partner is like, you know, he was very, I found that my earlier partners were sort of, “You need to orgasm by Friday or it’s over”, whereas I’ve found that now that I’m a little bit older I know what I want and what I seek in a partner, I’m able to just say, you know, “This is what’s going on and this is what I need you to do to help me to orgasm, ‘cause I want to give that to you, I want to experience that with you.”

Dr. Lori Buckley: See now it always comes down to communication and knowing what you want and…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: that does happen with experience and experience happens with age and you know what’s so great is you’re only 25 still, so the bet is the best is yet to come. Now we need to take a quick, quick break to support our sponsors, but we will be right back and when we come back we’re going to talk a little bit more about some fantasies. We’ll be right back.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Welcome back. You’re listening to On the Minds of Men. I’m your host Dr. Lori Buckley and I am here with Virgie Tovar, a breast fetishist, as well as a phone sex operator and I want to talk about that latter part. We’ve been talking a lot about fetishes, and it’s interesting because the word ‘fantasy’ keeps popping up. Can you tell us, you know, a little bit about the difference between a fantasy and a fetish and how that comes to play in the phone work that you do?

Virgie Tovar: Well, I feel that fantasies often play a very integral role in fetish especially when a lot of people, you know, a lot of people gain their fetish when they’re, before they’re even 10 years old, which is an interesting thing to me, and you know a lot of children aren’t sexually active before that age one would hope, and so their fantasies revolve largely around this fetish, so I mean for me the bread and butter of my fetish came from my childhood. So in a lot of ways it’s part of, it’s a huge part of, fetish and I don’t know that I, they’re so difficult to sort of, I mean they’re so difficult to distinguish and yet they’re so separate in terms of their definitions.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, but they definitely overlap, and while children are not acting out sexually…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: in other words they’re not behaving sexually, well maybe in some ways they are, you were masturbating when you were 4…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Certainly, we are sexual from day 1…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: well, we know that we’re even sexual when we’re in the womb, we now have some…

Virgie Tovar: Exactly.

Dr. Lort Buckley: some studies that show babies masturbating in the womb, so we are always sexual, we’re born sexual, and that makes sense that that would play into that. You said that fantasy plays a large part in fetish, but fetish can also play a large part in fantasy, so it’s something that can, that can really help us to understand ourselves and experience some pleasure, at the same time for many people it can be problematic, and I think what you had talked about before, how, you know, you were seeking some answers, whether you needed hypnotherapy or whether you needed therapy at all, and sometimes it’s just because it feels like based on messages we get from so many different places there’s something wrong with us, and what I love about doing this show with you and about talking to you is we can let people know that no, there’s nothing wrong with having fantasies or having certain things that really turn you on. Can it be problematic? Well yeah, if it becomes so narrow where you’re only able to respond to one thing and that interferes with your sexual pleasure or your relationship, well yeah, then there’s something you can do about it. Not cure it, but again just expand your sexual responses and your sexual pleasures, and that’s very doable. So I love that we’re talking about this ‘cause it’s important. But I still want to talk about your experiences as a phone sex operator. First I have to ask, what got you into that?

Virgie Tovar: You know, I have been, my first sort of forays into sexuality with other people was through phone sex, because I was extraordinarily shy, I was brought up religious and I was, I was very guilt ridden around my, there was a lot of guilt around my sexuality, and so I didn’t want to go right into physical behavior, like real life actually, so I found that I would go online and I would, you know, get these men to call me and we would have phone sex, and I just found myself so aroused and I loved it and I found that men have been really responsive to my voice from a very, you know, when I started doing it I was about maybe 16, and I just loved doing it, and I think even to this day I, I consider phone sex a huge part of my sexual menu or my sexual pie as I call it. But I started officially getting paid for phone sex when I was about 20 and boyfriends before had said, “You know, you should think about, you should think about becoming a phone sex operator because you’re so good and you could get paid to do this”, and…

Dr. Lori Buckley: Do what you love.

Virgie Tovar: Exactly.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah. Well, you know you do have an extremely sexy voice and I’m sure the, the men, maybe even the women who are listening right now are enjoying all the things that you’re saying. Since you are a professional when it comes to phone sex, I get so many questions about, you know, “How do you do that?” and “What are some fun things I could do with my partner on the phone to have some fun, whether we’re traveling or, you know, just not able to see one another or we just kind of want to spice things up?” Do you have any phone sex tips for our listeners?

Virgie Tovar: Yeah, well a lot of people feel like they’re going to get tripped up doing sort of this performative sexual act, and I think first of all embrace that, love that, you know, I, for me when I think about phone sex I think about going into my mind and having this extraordinarily expansive porn shop inside of it and I just pick out a movie and I plug it in and I just, I just sort of describe what’s going on in a scene. So kind of taking that liberty, you know, don’t be afraid of being an exhibitionist or performative in your sexual behavior, and that might even segway. I’ve found that phone sex has given me incredible confidence in my actual bedroom because I have more confidence to talk dirty, I have more confidence to play out the things because I know that my partners and the men I speak to are turned on by it. So that’d be one kind of, give yourself permission to talk dirty and be nasty and you can pretend that wasn’t you if you want to.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, right.

Virgie Tovar: My second tip would be if you don’t want to have a very verbose sort of word intensive phone sex session, you can do a lot of sounds. So, I’ve found that men and women love sounds and the great thing about phone sex is that it’s completely centered around it. So even if it’s moaning or, you know, licking your nipples or touching your vagina or your penis, I love hearing men masturbate, if they lubricate their penis I can hear the touching it and sliding their hand up and down, that’s extraordinarily hot, I mean it’s like that’s probably much hotter for me than listening to him describe a scene that he is sort of doing. I love hearing those kinds of sounds, like anything, the tongue, the lips, even licking the lips has a very distinct sound and those kind of things get me really enjoyed over the phone too. And my last tip is that you can really explore things that you’re not ready to explore in the bedroom, or maybe you don’t even want to explore in real life, over the phone, and that’s where a lot of my clients come in because they, in a lot of ways phone sex for them, for some of them it’s maybe their sole source of sexual activity with another person. For others it’s really a playground for exploration, and they do all these fantasies and they may not even want to come true in real life, which is really common.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Absolutely, yeah, there’s a difference between fantasy and what you imagine and like to, and like to play with and then what you actually want to act out, and I think…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: that’s important, and communication, we talked about that before, is so important and when you can communicate what it is you want or what it is you fantasize about, of course it’s going to improve your sex life, but as you said a lot of people have so much difficulty with that and the phone I do think is, is a good, a good venue in a way to be able to talk to somebody, maybe there’s a little bit more safety because you’re not looking them in the eye and…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: You don’t have to fear that judgment and to also say, hey this is fantasy, this is fun, lets have some fun with that, and it sounds like you have had a lot of experience in that area, and it also sounds like its, its carried over into your relationships, and when you talk about these, these tips that you have, when you then take it into the bedroom, what kind of communication tips do you have for couples who maybe haven’t been able to talk so openly about what it is they want or about their fantasies. Do you have any suggestions for those people, ‘cause I know we have a lot of listeners who talk about those things?

Virgie Tovar: Well one thing, and I found that this really helps me, is that you have, I call it the designated driver, and that’s the person who regardless of what happens, pick, you can switch, it could always be one person, who’s going to hold the spades, and I know that sounds kind of new agey, but who’s going to, you know, who’s going to say, “Regardless of whatever happens, keep going”, and is not going to laugh, is not going to break the moment, you know, and is going just keep on be like, ‘cause I’ve been in so many situations where, you know, I’ll be, I’ll be all dressed up, I’ll have my thigh highs on, I’ll have a little school girl outfit on and then I’m ready, I’m pumped up and the minute I walk out of the bathroom and sit on his lap I’m cracking up because I’m completely horrified, I’m nervous, I’m thinking “This is ridiculous. I can’t do this”, and I’ve found that when I have a partner who’s the designated driver, who’s going to say, “No, this is completely arousing, I’m completely aroused and I’m hard and you’re hot and keep going”, and having that person is so crucial, I think I’ve never, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody, no one had ever given me that advice and I find, I found that it’s so helpful because when you’re in it, it’s difficult because it’s, I don’t know, I don’t feel like we’re exposed to a lot of different types of sexual expression. You know, we don’t see it out there a lot. I feel like it’s kind of, I feel like it’s almost characterized sometimes in movies and what not, but you never get to see the whole, “Yeah, actually my, my pussy made a noise” or “My foot slipped” or “I was wearing satin on the satin sheets and I slipped off”, you know. All those things happen and just having somebody who kind of can just dust you off and just say, “Keep on going, you’re so hot, you’re so sexy”…

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah.

Virgie Tovar: That’s a big piece of advice to have.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Well, what I, what I love about what you just said, two things, but the thing that stands out for me the most about that is that even though you are, you know, an expert and this is something that you do, even you get nervous. So that says a lot. It’s okay that we giggle and it’s okay that we get embarrassed and it’s okay that we get nervous, but lets do it anyways ‘cause we can just have fun, because you know what, your partner is feeling the same thing, and as long as you feel safe in a relationship and there’s, you know, there’s trust and you two have these conversations about, “You know, okay, well what if this happens, what if that happens, one of us stays in character”, it just sets up the whole thing where you two really can just feel safe and open up and have a really great time.

Virgie Tovar: Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Now I want to take one more quick break and then we’re going to be right back, and when we come back I want to ask you about some of the calls you may have received. So we’re going to take a quick break. You’re listening to On the Minds of Men, we’ll be right back.

Dr. Lori Buckley: We’re back and I’m your host Dr. Lori Buckley and I’m here with Virgie Tovar and we are having a very interesting conversation and before the break we were talking about, you know, phone sex and different ways to communicate and have some fun on the phone or in the bedroom, and I want to just find out what are some of the most popular or most common fantasies that you hear about on the phone?

Virgie Tovar: Well, for me personally, now you, you obviously heard my voice, I’ve, I found that when I become aroused my voice goes up even a little further, so I think to a lot of men I sound really innocent and angelic and…

Dr. Lori Buckley: If they only knew.

Virgie Tovar: Exactly.

Dr. Lori Buckley: I think it’s the combination of the two.

Virgie Tovar: Right, right, exactly, and I, so I found a lot of men like the idea of, at least my callers, the idea of me being a younger woman who is seducing them, so that’s a really common, I would say that’s the number one fantasy that I get is a younger woman, usually probably a teenager who’s seducing them, and I found that the other really common, I think you might be a little bit surprised by this, is big black penises. I know, I can’t, I mean it’s interesting because I found that these play a huge role in men’s, I don’t know how it works out that way, but I’ve found that in some way or another it makes its way into cock holding fantasies where, you know, a man is watching another woman, watching his wife or girlfriend with another man, it plays into homoerotic fantasies. A lot of men call me with homoerotic fantasies and they’re sort of these forced, like I’m forcing them through manipulation or blackmail, you know, “I’ll tell your wife if you don’t suck that right now, you know, that you’ve been seeing me and you’ve been sleeping with me”, to, I don’t know, things like, I’m a woman and then all of a sudden I pull my skirt up and I have a special surprise for you, so. What’s interesting again is a lot of the, what I was talking about experimentation and kind of using phone sex as a playground, a lot of men who identify as straight, they’re calling a straight phone sex line, they’re talking to a heterosexual woman about their fantasies, and they’re kind of enjoying that I’m proctoring it, you know, I’m not, they don’t have any choice…

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.

Virgie Tovar: to do what I’m telling them to do. So it’s kind of fun to surrender in that way, but I found what’s most interesting to me is that it always, always involves volition, seduction, there’s always kind of this compelling factor that’s coming from me, and I rarely get calls where a man is trying to, you know, play out a forceful fantasy where they’re the aggressor. I’m always the aggressor, the perpetrator, the seductress, you know. Very interesting.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, you know, it actually makes sense to me. There’s a couple things I want to say about that ‘cause there’s so much there, but we only have so much time, but what I, what I do want to say first of all is that it’s, the important point here is that fantasy and reality don’t always collide, so…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: you know, as far as sexual orientation goes, there’s a lot of people, men and women, who have same sex fantasies…

Virgie Tovar: Yup.

Dr. Lori Buckley: And, who would never really want to actually have sex with someone of the same sex, so…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: you know, there’s that, there’s that continuum of sexual orientation. Now women don’t feel so upset about that because for some reason there’s not as much stigma for heterosexual women to have fantasies with other women, because why, we know that men are turned on by that. But men, a lot of men I know, feel, heterosexual men, feel really, you know, shamed about their same sex fantasies and we just, we’re going to put it out there right now for you listeners, it’s not uncommon and it doesn’t mean you’re gay and, you know what, go for it, so that’s one. The second part that you mentioned, it doesn’t surprise me because I hear from so many men, whether it’s the listeners or my patients who, what they want more than anything is a turned on woman, a woman who is, who’s going to seduce them, who wants them, who desires them, and unfortunately what happens more often that not is it’s the man who needs to seduce the woman, make her happy…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: make sure she’s relaxed, wash the dishes, you know, there’s all these things that we’re, we’re talking about men, what they need to do to get a woman to have sex with them. So when they call you they’re able to be the passive person in a sense and have a woman who is letting them know how much she wants him, whether she’s seducing him or whether she’s just being aggressive sexually, and men like that.

Virgie Tovar: Absolutely. I mean, I’ve had, I’ve had a few callers who, I had one particular who’s very memorable, an incredible man, and the first call he said, “You know, I’m in a marriage, I love my wife, she’s no longer interested in having sex with me, I can’t have children and she’s very hurt by that, and I just feel like nobody wants me. And I was hoping that we could play out a fantasy where you seduce me”, and I was just so, I was so moved and I was so turned on by his vulnerability and we ended up having this extraordinarily longstanding phone relationship that was so hot and so charged because, because of that, I mean it’s very true, I think that I’m a dominant woman so I very much enjoy taking control of situations that are sexual or potentially romantic and, and I just feel like, you know, again give yourself permission to play with that role, to play with the seductress, it’s very fun.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Absolutely, now of course there are men who, who like to be the top or who like to be the dominant ones,

Virgie Tovar: Yeah.

Dr. Lori Buckley: but even then I think there’s something about, you know, the woman surrendering and giving herself…

Virgie Tovar: Right.

Dr. Lori Buckley: to him, which is, which is really erotic, so we all have different fantasies, different behaviors, different things that turn us on, and you know what, enjoy it, right? That’s, I think that’s, I think that’s one of the main things that we want to say here. Now Virgie, you have a lot of things going on. If somebody wants to read your book or find out more about you or call you, how can they get information, how can they find you?

Virgie Tovar: Well, the book is called Destination DD: Adventures of a Breast Fetishist Who’s 40DD, and it’s available at amazon.com, also goodvibes.com, so it’s available through Good Vibrations, which is our big sex store in the Bay area. My website is breastfetishist.com, and there’s a lot, I mean pretty much all the information is there, that’s my most comprehensive source for information.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Great, and we will have all that information on our website. So it has just been so much fun talking to you, we’ve learned so much. Now before we say goodbye though…

Virgie Tovar: Yes.

Dr. Lori Buckley: I think we need to hear some moans. Can you give us some good, some good phone sex moans.

Virgie Tovar: Ooh, ooh, I’m just recovering from a cold, hopefully I’ll be able to do my sexy, my sexiest moan for you Lori.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Okay lets try it.

Virgie Tovar: Okay, okay. Mmmm or maybe Ahhhh and other noise that I find that men really like, and I hope I can do it, lets see if, we’ll see, okay, Mm mm. It’s kind of a little squeal or something.

Dr. Lori Buckley: That sounds pretty easy to do I think we…

Virgie Tovar: Definitely, you can definitely do it when you’re not congested.

Dr. Lori Buckley: I think we can all do a little Ahhh. Yeah, so don’t try this at home if you’ve just got over a cold, I think maybe that’s what we need to say, but you just have so much great stuff to say, your book is filled with all kinds of fantasies and actual experiences…

Virgie Tovar: Yeah.

Dr. Lori Buckley: So if you out there, our listeners, have any interest in breasts or in hearing about a woman’s experiences or fantasies, definitely check out Virgie’s book, I think you’re going to enjoy it and you can’t miss it, the cover has a picture of her breasts on it, no nipples, but I was a little disappointed though, I was kind of hoping there’d be more pictures in the book, maybe that’ll be the next one. So thank you so much and it has been a pleasure. And listeners, appreciate you listening to the show. If you want to find out more about Personal Life Media or get transcripts of this show or any other show, go to personallifemedia.com and you can get transcripts of this show and all kinds of great shows. So check it out, and if you have any comments or letters or any questions, please write me at [email protected]. Thanks for listening and we’ll be talking to you soon. Bye.