Personal Life Media

Transcript

Scott Sherman: Hey, it’s Scott. We are thrilled to welcome SmugMug, our favorite service for sharing and displaying our photography, as inaugural sponsors of Digital Photography Life. Photos on SmugMug look amazing; you will love their service! But best of all, when you are ready, SmugMug offers a full suite of tools that will allow you to market and sell your prints as well as downloads over the web. It’s the easiest way we know to start making money off your photography. In next week’s show, SmugMug is going to give you a chance to save money with a fantastic offer exclusively for listeners of Digital Photography Life. But don’t wait ‘til then, check them out at SmugMug.com.

It is November 3rd, 2008. Welcome to Episode Number One of Digital Photography Life.

Scott Sherman: I’m Scott Sherman –

Michael Stein:  -- and I’m Michael Stein.

Scott Sherman: And on today’s show we have a terrific interview with Scott Kelby. Scott Kelby is one of the gurus of all things Photoshop, Adobe, and today he talks about Lightroom 2. If you have any interest in purchasing this program or if you already have it and want to know how to get the best out of it, you’ve got to check out Scott’s interview on the show. He’ll also be giving away two terrific prizes to two lucky listeners.

Michael and I will also talk about the news of the day, which includes recent reviews about Canon’s latest DSLR.

Michael Stein: But first, the theme music!

Scott Sherman: Well, Michael, welcome to Episode One of our first new show!

Michael Stein: Hey Scott Sherman, welcome to you too!

Scott Sherman: It’s very cool to be doing this, huh?

Michael Stein: It’s great to be back in the saddle.

Scott Sherman: So for those of you who might have already checked out our feed, which you can find at Photography.PersonalLifeMedia.com, there is another episode up in there, we call it Episode Zero, it’s kind of a trailer for the show. Not really the full thing we usually do every week, but just enough to give you a taste of what’s coming. But this is the real thing, right Michael?

Michael Stein: The real show number one. Let’s go!

Scott Sherman: So if we screw this one up, we’re chumps.

Michael Stein: I’m sure we will.

Scott Sherman: Well, if I screw it up it’s only because I’m completely wired and sugared up. We’re taping this, what is it now, three days after Halloween?

Michael Stein: Yup.

Scott Sherman: There couldn’t be any more candy in my house.

Michael Stein: Same here.

Scott Sherman: My kids collected candy with the same kind of insane zeal that you and I collect photographic equipment. They couldn’t get enough.

Michael Stein: They sort it and make piles.

Scott Sherman:  And so the fact that they can’t eat a quarter of what they collected means, who has to indulge in it all?

Michael Stein: We have to help them out.

Scott Sherman: We have to! It’s our duty as parents, right?

Michael Stein: Our duty.

Scott Sherman: Well thank you all for joining us today. We’re really excited about this new show. Some of you may know us from a previous podcast that we created called the Digital Photography Show, which ran for two-and-a-half years, I think, right?

Michael Stein: Yeah.

Scott Sherman: And we had a great time there doing interviews with some of the leading photographers and representatives from companies that make products that you as a digital photographers want to know about. Michael and I every week talked about what was new, what products we were excited about, what new shooting techniques we had learned, what books we had read, what videos we had watched, kind of uber-fan boys we are. And basically that’s what we’re going to continue to do here, right Michael?

Michael Stein: Yep, pretty much the same old shtick.

Scott Sherman: Will there be any innovation at all?

Michael Stein: I’m sure there will be.

Scott Sherman: And when can we expect to see that?

Michael Stein: I don’t know.

Scott Sherman: ‘Cause we got e-mails from people joking that our theme music was the same from Digital Photography Show.

Michael Stein: Same format, same music.

Scott Sherman: You know why? ‘Cause it worked, and the theme music and the format and you know, all the creative content of the show, was always developed by me and Michael. I composed that theme music on some audio looping program like ten years ago on my computer as a joke. So, you know, we like these ideas and we like our concepts, and so we’re sticking with them, right?

Michael Stein: Yeah.

Scott Sherman: But thank you all for even noticing and paying attention. Thank you all also who voted for us in the Podcast Awards. For those of you who don’t know, there actually is a Podcast Awards, and for the second year, our previous podcast was nominated in the People’s Choice Award, which is like the best overall award. It goes to the top ten out of over 4,000 nominated podcasts, so it’s quite an honor. Thank you everybody who did that. I don’t think they can vote anymore, right?

Michael Stein: I don’t remember when it’s over...

Scott Sherman: It’s over. It’s over.

Michael Stein: But thank you for voting for us, whoever did.

Scott Sherman: Yeah, if we win it’ll be a miracle because we weren’t doing the podcast anymore so I doubt we amassed a lot of votes. But we really appreciate it next year. Next year, nominate us for Digital Photography Life, right?

Michael Stein: That’d be nice.

Scott Sherman: And we also want to know more about y’all in the audience. We over the next couple of weeks, you’ll hear about our families, about our shooting styles, about the equipment we use.  We don’t want to bore you with all those details now, but we want to get to know you all too. So please, write to us at [email protected]. Tell us what kind of equipment you use, what you’re interested in learning or hearing about, if there’s anybody you’d love to hear interviewed on the show or any techniques you’d like us to cover. And we will use that to inform us as we put together this new show. You can also ask us questions because Michael and I love to answer listener questions. We often do it in an e-mail right back to you, but sometimes we also do it here on the show.

Michael Stein: Yeah, and you know, Scott is a Canon fan-boy and I’m sort of a Nikon fan-boy. But if you’re a Pentax guru or Olympus guru or Fuji guru or Sony guru, let us know what you love about those cameras. And maybe we’ll even have you on the show to talk about them!

Scott Sherman: Because we love to make listeners a part of the show. There will be some regulars who you’ll be hearing in the next couple of weeks as we bring them on to introduce them to you. Michael and I are by no means experts. I don’t even know in the current climate, with so much product choice, whether anybody can really be an expert in every area of Digital Photography anymore, right?

Michael Stein: There’s so much to learn. I mean if you just pick up just one camera, there’s always a huge manual and a million options, and getting to know that camera. So you know, it’s hard, even though I read a review on the latest Pentax, until I actually use it, I don’t know it.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Michael Stein: And people who use it know it.

Scott Sherman: And even the software is getting to be kind of overwhelming, not to mention the lenses, flashes, all the accessories. So there will be other people who’ll be helping us here. They’re part of the Digital Photography Life family. And you’ll be getting to know them in the next couple of weeks. Probably what we’ll do in a month or two is we’ll also put up an online survey somewhere and ask you a couple of questions about you, your shooting style, what you like to use, so that we can tailor the show to meet you all. But we basically, you know what, I said that Michael, but we basically just do the show that we’d want to hear. We’re both just enthusiasts. Neither one of us are professional photographers. Michael has had a couple of shots published recently, right?

Michael Stein: Yeah, I’ve had some published shots, I’ve been actually making a little bit of money doing little gigs here and there.

Scott Sherman: Now, when you say a little money, do you mean like thousands and thousands?

Michael Stein: No I mean like a couple hundred here, a couple hundred there.

Scott Sherman: I think a lot of our listeners are probably in that same space. I mean, one of the things a lot of us experience as we get more into this hobby is that the costs of it quickly add up, especially if you’re in the DSLR camp and you start thinking about lenses and software and filters and all the accessories you want. You kind of start looking at how you can make money off this hobby. And it’s not impossible at all. I mean, we’ve had a lot of listeners who wound up even going full-time or part-time into the photography business. And that’s something that we usually support, right?

Michael Stein: Yeah. I mean, in this last week someone has asked me to photography their wedding next October, 2009. And I did my in-laws, my brother-in-law’s wedding recently as the main photographer. But I’ve never done it for money, and so I don’t know what I’m going to do there. Cause it’s a big deal doing a wedding, for me.

Scott Sherman: You think you’re going to do it or what?

Michael Stein: I told them I’m going to do it.

Scott Sherman: Okay.

Michael Stein: I’m up for the challenge. I think I’m ready technically.

Scott Sherman: So you’ve got a year to get proficient.

Michael Stein: Yeah, to get my chops up for the wedding. Yeah, so I’ll be looking at all of you guys for advice.

Scott Sherman: You know what we’ll do is we’ll give you monthly assignments and we’ll make you post it on our SmugMug site and then we’ll  rate you.

Michael Stein: That’s right. How’s Michael doing? Is he ready for the wedding? I also offered to do an engagement shoot as well just because that sounded like it might be fun as well.

Scott Sherman: Oh cool, alright. So we will watch you. And you’re pretty good at posting photos that listeners can see, right?

Michael Stein: Yeah.

Scott Sherman: Alright. Well, we’ll tell you more about where you can see our photos in the future. But in the mean-time, the best place to get announcements about the show or to get the links that are related to the show or hear about it, is on my blog which you can find at ScottsPhotoBlog.com. And I try to update that a couple of times a week and any products you hear us mention on the show or people like Scott Kelby who are guests, you’ll find links to them over on Scott’s Photo Blog.

So let’s get quickly into the news of the day, Michael. I know many of our audience is -- are Canon shooters, are thinking of getting their first DSLR and the big news  in the past couple of weeks was Canon coming out with their 50D, which is sort of their enthusiast level camera. It, the 50D not surprisingly, replaces the 40D.

Michael Stein: Actually they say it doesn’t quite replace it. They’re both being marketed at the same time.

Scott Sherman: Well they’re both available, but I’m not sure they’ll both stay in production forever. Do we know that --?

Michael Stein: Well no, they said that -- my understanding is that they’re not like phasing out the 40D.

Scott Sherman: Oh really?

Michael Stein: Yeah.

Scott Sherman: Interesting. Well, that’s rare because the 20D was replaced by the 30D, the 30D by the 40D. I know this because I had a 20D, a 30D, and a 40D. And every time the upgrades came out, I felt compelled to get the next iteration of the camera. But this time, not so much, right?

Michael Stein: I mean, you know, it’s one of those things where it’s going to be an awesome camera. The question is, is it worth upgrading from the 40D?

Scott Sherman: And is it worth the price differential from the 40D? I mean, both cameras are available now. Without a lens you can get the 40D for roughly $900 USD, right?

Michael Stein: Yep.

Scott Sherman: The street price of the 50D without the lens also is $1300, so it’s a $400 U.S. difference. Now, given the state of the U.S. economy, a $400 U.S. difference is probably like 25 bucks in Canada or Britain, right? A quarter in Spain, whatever.

Michael Stein: No, no.

Scott Sherman: There’s a difference. That’s like almost a 40% price differential, right?

Michael Stein: Well the U.S. dollar actually got stronger again against the British Pound and the Euro.

Scott Sherman: Yeah, but that’s actually only because everybody’s in the same bad boat, right?

Michael Stein: Yeah.

Scott Sherman: So, the 50D is on paper, definitely an incremental upgrade to the 40D. The 40D was a 10 mega-pixel camera; the 50D is a 15 mega-pixel camera. 40D used what Canon called the “DIGIC III” processor, which is the internal brains of the computer. 50D takes it to the next generation which is the “DIGIC IV” processor. One of the nice things about the 50D is it has a much higher-resolution monitor. One thing I’ve always disliked about the LCDs on the back of DSLRs until recently with the latest round of Nikons, is they never had a really high resolution, so you couldn’t really tell if your picture was in critical focus, because you didn’t have enough resolution to see. And everything looked a little bit blurry and fuzzy. Now, Nikon was the first company to put in these high-resolution LCDs I guess, with the D3 and D300, right?

Michael Stein: D3, D300, and now D700, yes.

Scott Sherman: Right. Well the first two were the 3 and the 300, so now Canon is getting into the high-resolution LCD game with the 50D. So it’s incrementally faster, the 50D than the 40D, shot-to-shot. But the reviews of the 50D have not been brilliant, have they?

Michael Stein: Well it’s come down to the image quality and the image quality – well, the overall image quality of the 50D is actually supposed to be better than the 40D, which is not surprising. But the review came out on DP-Review and said the high ISO is actually worse than the 40D as well as the dynamic range, also worse than the 40D.

Scott Sherman: Right. And that’s bad. I mean, they said categorically, it’s not significantly better than the 10 mega-pixel 40D. So, that’s not a great rate considering that every one of these cameras tends to get a better review and be lauded as having better image quality. And DP-Review is a very respected source for all things digital camera, right?

Michael Stein: Well, yeah. It seems that they went from 10 mega-pixels to 15 mega-pixels, and obviously there’s a higher pixel-density, more pixels crammed into the same amount of space. And so, generally, Canon has always done it so that they added more mega-pixels and the noise is also improved, the noise quality, the dynamic range as well at the same time. And so, what it looks like is that they’re hitting sort of a limit at 15 mega-pixels where the quality is not improving.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Michael Stein: Those two qualities and the sensor are not improving as well as packing more mega-pixels in there. So they might be hitting a ceiling there. We don’t know if it’s a real ceiling or just their ceiling for the moment.

Scott Sherman: And that was something I had said back when the 50D was first previewed by Canon. Looking at them increasing by 50% the resolution, while leaving the sensor the same size, was a red flag that it might suffer from noise problems. At the time, Canon did say in its promotional materials that they had new technology that would mitigate that issue. But I am not surprised that DP-Review found noise to be worse in this higher resolution camera than in the lower resolution camera. That supposedly was why the Nikon D3 didn’t go high-resolution, right? That’s also a 10 mega-pixel camera.

Michael Stein: Yeah, well, no.

Scott Sherman: 12?

Michael Stein: The D3 and the D300 are both 12 mega-pixel cameras.

Scott Sherman: So they didn’t go for the 15, 21, mega-pixel s that some DSLRs have supposedly because they made the decision they’d rather have low noise and better image quality than these huge files that nobody really needs because most people are not making poster-sized images.

Michael Stein: Yeah, they made the choice of image quality over the mega-pixels.

Scott Sherman: Now to be fair, not everybody sees this the same way. C-Net also reviewed the 50D. They said that, they -- sort of exactly the opposite, they specifically say that it had better noise reduction than the 40D.

Michael Stein: So I was with a person last night who had both the 40D and the 50D and he bought it before the reviews came out, but he basically agreed that there is a little more noise -- and it’s  really only pretty much only after you go past 1600...

Scott Sherman: Right.

Michael Stein: Does this noise really start taking shape.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Michael Stein: So you know, 1600 is a pretty good ISO as it is.

Scott Sherman: Right. And C-Net specifically said that it does deliver better results at 1600 and 3200 ISO than the 40D, which is the opposite of what DP-Review found. Different reviewers will get different results, but it’s not a slam-dunk.

Michael Stein: Yup.

Scott Sherman: And even in finding better noise, what C-Net said was that the sort of relatively modest improvements in the 50D were probably not enough to make it a compelling upgrade from the 40D. They said it’s missing things like improved auto-focus system, a smaller spot meter, better viewfinder coverage, customizable boundaries for shutter speed and aperture, which might have pushed it from “compelling” to a “must-have.” So, it’s just the first time in a long time I can think of a camera honestly from Canon or Nikon, landing with a little bit of a soft thud. It’s not panned.

Michael Stein: I thought the 30D fell into that category. The 20D was a great jump from the 10D and it was a great camera. And then the 30D was just some slight improvements and enhancements. And this seems like – the 40D was again another great jump, great camera, and the 50D again, more improvements, a slight evolution for the camera. I expect the 60D – is there going to be a 60D?

Scott Sherman: I don’t know. They haven’t told me.

Michael Stein: Is there already a 60D, or...?

Scott Sherman: There’s not a 60D, no.

Michael Stein: There was never a 60D. They had a D60 or something like that.

Scott Sherman: Well, Nikon had a D60.

Michael Stein: Well they have one now, but Canon also used to have their D in front a long time ago, I thought.

Scott Sherman: Nah...

Michael Stein: But anyway, I think the next generation is going to be the one that you know, maybe has a greater impact.

Scott Sherman:  Well meanwhile, although the 50D is not taking the world by storm, it’s probably still a very very good camera for somebody who’s looking to come in at that price point, sort of above your entry-level DSLRs into that intermediate category where you’re going to get a better weather-sealing, faster shot-to-shot processing, the ability to take your shots more quickly, a more robust auto-focusing than the Digital Rebel Line. But is it that much better than a 40D is really the question you have to ask yourself at this point. I tell somebody to think very carefully. Maybe you’d want to save the $400 or $500 on the 50D and put it towards a better lens.

Michael Stein: That’s probably, yeah, not bad advice. And if you have a 20 or a 30D, it might still be a very attractive upgrade.

Scott Sherman: Right, right. But I don’t know if it’s $400 more attractive, you know. Because you could go from a 20D to a 40D and still get a great upgrade.

Michael Stein: But I’m sure it’s going to be a great camera. I’m sure on it’s on it’ll hold up.

Scott Sherman: Listen, I’m a Canon fan-boy, so for me to say it, it’s a big deal. I’m not saying it’s not a very very good camera. None of these companies are coming out with bad cameras, right? The question is whether or not it’s better than the 40D and if it is better, is it $400 better? That’s the question and people do come to us for advice and our take on it. If I was in that position right now I’d seriously consider buying a 40D, which at $900 is a steal. That is an unbelievable buy. That is a terrific purchase. You’ll have most of what the 50D will offer you. The only thing I’d really miss is I’d love to have that high resolution LCD. That would be worth $300.

Michael Stein: Exactly, but it’s those little upgrades that they add to it that add value. It’s not just purely that image quality. And again, overall the image quality will be better. It is a 15 mega-pixel; there is more detail in there. So if you’re someone whose making money and you’re making money off your 40D, you might want to have every edge you can, it doesn’t seem unreasonable upgrade to 50D.

Scott Sherman: Alright, but meanwhile if you’re just getting into the game, and we won’t even go into the Nikon, or the Pentax or Olympus, this is just about t the Canon line-up. If you’re just getting into the game you might want to hold off until December when the 5D Mark II is available. That is going to be the camera I think that changes things.

Michael Stein: That is the camera I’m very excited about.

Scott Sherman: That is a full-framed DSLR. For those of you who don’t know, cameras like the 50D, I think any camera that’s at this point under $3,000 is going to be a crop-frame camera, so that your sensor is not a full-sized sensor. Full-sized as determined by the old film days. They are smaller than that. And because they are smaller, they will always because of physics be more noisy, the picture quality will be not as rich and deep as a full-framed camera. Canon is about to be the first company to bring out a full-framed camera for under $3000 in this generation. I don’t remember what the original 5D cost, but I think it was $3500, right?

Michael Stein: I mean you had Sony, which is under $300 and you had the Nikon which...

Scott Sherman: They’re all, but they’re like $2999.

Michael Stein: Yeah, they’re like one penny under $3000.

Scott Sherman: Right, so Canon will be coming out – I think it’s $2700, it might be $2799 price-point, for the update to the 5D, which was kind of the first consumer affordable full-framed camera. Full-frame is very coveted by photographers so this is major news. The 5D Mark II will also offer True 1080P HD Video.

Michael Stein: High definition.

Scott Sherman: High-def or HD. And so that is very exciting. Scott Kelby, you haven’t heard the interview yet, raved about the video he saw that was shot with the 5D Mark II.

Michael Stein: It’s going to be the big trend and the big topic of the next year or two -- the bridging between video and still.

Scott Sherman: You know, my feeling is it’s going to continue to be a niche thing. Most people buying a DSLR are not buying it for video and probably are not going to use it much for video. But it’ll be a very interesting bridge technology to see how it goes over. I made two mis-statements about the video on the 5D in my interview with Scott, so let me just clear it up. I think I said in the interview with Scott Kelby that the 5D could only shoot 5 minutes of High-Def video without starting to overheat. That – it’s actually 12 minutes and it’s the Nikon, the D90, which came out before the 5D Mark II, which also shoots what they call High-Def Vide. That’s limited to 5 minutes of High-Def. And the Nikon is also – it is High Definition, but it’s the 720P version of High Def, which you can call High Def, but it’s not the full 1080P that High Def goes up to.

Michael Stein: There’s a big difference there, yeah.

Scott Sherman: It’s the poor man’s High Def. The other thing that’s really nice about the 5D Mark II, which I didn’t realize when I spoke to Scott so I might have said that it didn’t have this feature, is that it does have an input for an external mike, which the D90 does not. And no matter how good your video looks, with the little tiny built-in microphone, even on a consumer video camera, if the sound’s good, who cares how good the picture is. If the sound is tinny and hollow, then it’s not useful for anything other than family pictures. So the Canon Mark II 5D can take an external mike, which will greatly increase its utility if you really wanted to do something, like a wedding photographer where you can market that as useable video.

Michael Stein: That’s going to be where the bridge comes into play. If you’re taking photos – a video of the ceremony and it’s high quality, you’re not going to miss that one moment, whereas if you’re taking still photos, you would miss that moment.

Scott Sherman: Right, but you know, I think it’s a bridge, because I don’t think a main wedding photographer is going to switch over to shooting video.

Michael Stein: Oh no.

Scott Sherman: And risk missing the shot because they’re shooting a video. I mean...

Michael Stein: Yeah, but what they might do is they might have another person, an assistant on the side shooting video.

Scott Sherman: Yeah, but they could use a video camera. It has a lot better...

Michael Stein: Yeah, I mean, it’s all true. But I mean, at this moment, yes, the quality isn’t great enough. But as quality gets better with video, you know, it could be an interesting ball-game.

Scott Sherman: Now, one of things that neither of these cameras can do is focus while you’re zooming, which you can do with a normal video camera. So you need to zoom in, focus, and then if you change your zoom angle, you need to re-focus, which obviously is a limitation for video.

Michael Stein: For the DSLRs, you’re saying.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Michael Stein: Yep.

Scott Sherman: But there is a new format that has just sort of been premiered. It’s been talked about for a couple of months, but now the first cameras available with it, which is called the Micro Four-Thirds format. I wrote about this somewhat extensively on Scott’s Photo Blog. If you want to check it out, it’s basically a concept for having a camera that would be like a DSLR in that you could interchange the lenses, which of course no other compact cameras has. It’s also like a DSLR in that it has a much larger sensor than your typical digital camera that is not a DSLR, you know your typical compact camera. And of course the larger your sensor as we’ve been saying, better image quality, lower noise, etc.

It’s not like a DSLR in that you don’t actually view through the lens, which is the whole point of a DSLR. You’re viewing it through a mirrored image. You’re actually viewing it through an electronic viewfinder, so you’re not even...When you look through the eye piece, you’re seeing an electronic representation of the picture. Those tend to be really bad. Supposedly, this new technology improves it. It’s not a format that I’m really excited about, but some people are, so...

Michael Stein: I’m on board with being excited about it. I think it’s a very interesting idea. I mean, it’s basically a point and shoot camera with a larger sensor and interchangeable lenses. And so, what you have are smaller lenses in a smaller camera -- a smaller, lighter camera, so you have just another choice out there -- especially if you’re someone whose moving up from the point and shoot, you’ve got this choice of, instead of going to these... A lot of people aren’t attracted to Digital SLRs because they’re big and so a very compact camera that behaves in a very similar way that you’re used to but with interchangeable lenses and just better image quality. I think there’s a huge market for that.

Scott Sherman: Well I tend to go out on a limb. I say there will not be a huge market. I say this format is not around for much more than a couple of years. I don’t agree with you that there is a market of people who want interchangeable lenses but don’t want all the features of the DSLR. I think most people who want interchangeable lenses also want the fuller-sized sensor. They want to be able to use all the accessories, they don’t mind touting around something a little bit bigger. I think the people who would want this are probably the people who already have DSLRs and they want a compact camera they can carry around easier, but they want more flexibility like they’re used to with their DSLR. Problem is the first one of these cameras comes in an $800 list, which is more expensive than a lot of entry-level DSLRs that are more powerful, that you could get a picture with. So it’s expensive, it ain’t cheap. You’d have to get all-new lenses because -- now this one, I forget, I think it’s Konica Minolta, what is it?

Michael Stein: It’s Panasonic.

Scott Sherman: Right, but I forget whose lens. I don’t know if Konica’s interchangeable...

Michael Stein: Olympus has lenses and...

Scott Sherman: I forget whose lens...

Michael Stein: It’s not Minolta.

Scott Sherman: But basically they take their own lenses so you’d have to invest in a whole new bunch of lenses. Some of them will be able to take established lenses from your DSLR but now you have a really big lens when the whole point was that you wanted something pocketable. So that doesn’t make much sense. So I just don’t see that there is a market for this. I think that you know, I wrote in my column, I’d much rather have a $500 Canon G10 which gives you a lot of DSLR-like control – you can set aperture, you can set shutter-speed, you can shoot in RAW. You’ve got a lot more options with it than you would with a normal point and shoot, but it’s still smaller than one of these DSLR wannabes, it’s cheaper and it’s going to be sturdier because you’re not going to drop a lens.

Michael Stein: Why drop the lens?

Scott Sherman: I don’t see – I don’t think that there is people who want to do casual shooting but who also want interchangeable lenses.

Michael Stein: I think that this camera is not made for you.

Scott Sherman: But who’s it made for?

Michael Stein: It’s made for people who are moving up from the point and shoot crowd, who want to just have better image quality in their pictures. They want something bigger but they don’t want anything big, and that’s going to deliver that.

Scott Sherman: I say there’s the point and shoot crowd, then there’s the DSLR crowd. There is no real middle that you can build a whole new format around because anybody who wants to move up from a point and shoot to an appreciably better camera is just going to go for a DSLR, which they can get for about the same price if not a little bit cheaper and have much more functionality, many more accessories, much wider range of lenses. I mean, at this point, this camera has two lenses, Michael. Than would want to invest in...I think it’s something that there’s no market for, answering a question that nobody had, but we’ll see.

Michael Stein: I disagree.

Scott Sherman: I’ll bet money, we’ll see. Look, the more models there are out there the better it is for the market. Choice is good, right?

Michael Stein: And the ones that are good will hopefully be – will live to another day.

Scott Sherman: And I should say that one of the reasons I brought this up in this conversation is that the current, the first iteration of this, which is -- what is it? It’s got a horrible name right? It’s the Panasonic, what the heck is the number?

Michael Stein: G1 or something?

Scott Sherman: It’s the G1. It’s the DMC G1. It does not shoot video. When these do shoot video, I think there will be a little bit more of an interest in them, because then it is more for the casual kind of family photographer, who is used to the compacts which shoot video, right?

Michael Stein: It’s going to be inevitable that these cameras shoot video.

Scott Sherman: I guess you said before, it’s inevitable that everything will shoot video.

Michael Stein: Probably.

Scott Sherman: Except for the iPhone. Apparently, the iPhone will never...

Michael Stein: You know, I never thought there would be Live View on Digital SLRs, and there it is.

Scott Sherman: And I say that there is very few people who use it.

Michael Stein: You know it’s funny, I – the man I spoke to last night, the guy who uses the 50D, he uses the Live View, which I never really thought about, as a way – instead of using mirror lock-up. So if you’re taking a landscape and you put your camera on a tripod, there is a feature on many cameras called mirror lock-up, where you first lock up your mirror and then press the button again to take the picture. The idea is that the mirror, the slap of the mirror shakes your camera. So to reduce vibrations, it’s good to lock up your mirror. And I think in the Canon it’s through a menu. Is that true?

Scott Sherman: Uh-huh.

Michael Stein: The mirror lock-up you have to get to a menu?

Scott Sherman: Right.

Michael Stein: On the Nikon bodies, it’s just a button. It’s just the way you access it through the dial on the outside of the body.

Scott Sherman: Okay.

Michael Stein: Which is pretty convenient. And so, a way to get around that with the Canon cameras is to actually just go to the Live View, you’ve got your  mirror locked up, and then you just get your focus and take your picture. It’s a nice little work-around.

Scott Sherman: Yeah.

Michael Stein: Another way of looking at how it could be useful.

Scott Sherman: It’s useful for that; it’s useful for macro shots. I just don’t think it’s tremendously useful for most circumstances and I don’t think that a lot of people are using it. I do think it’s something that was originally put into DSLRs to capture those point and shoot shooters who are used to looking at the LCD to frame their shot, right? And they think that’s convenient. But once you get more sophisticated and knowledgeable, you learn that holding your camera you know, two feet ahead of you is much harder to do and keep it steady than just bringing it up to your face. So it’s not a good way to shoot a picture at all.

Michael Stein: No.Scott Sherman: You’re much steadier and you will have less shaking in your pictures if you brace it against your face with your elbows in, like you shoot with the DSLR when you’re going through the optical viewfinder. But it’s a nice thing for the small amount of people who use it for some specialized uses; it certainly is a nice feature. If it doesn’t make the cameras more expensive, I say go for it.

Michael Stein: It’s nifty.

Scott Sherman: Well, speaking of nifty, you know what that brings us to?

Michael Stein: No?

Scott Sherman: Our interview with the incredibly nifty Scott Kelby.

Michael Stein: Ah.

Scott Sherman: I know you all are going to enjoy this. Many of you predicted that Scott would be the first guest on our show because our long association with him. And you were right – Congratulations. You won’t win a prize for that but you may win a prize at the end of the interview, which is long. This is going to be a long first episode, we apologize for that. It’s going to be over an hour and a half because we’ve already gone on for long and Scott’s interview is about 50 minutes. But at the end of it you’ll have a chance to win two great prizes from Scott. So stayed tuned until the end and after that Michael will wrap things up, right?

Michael Stein: That’s right.

Scott Sherman: Okay, let’s go to Scott.

Scott Sherman: We are on the phone with our great friend, terrific photographer, wonderful instructor, and probably one of the well-regarded Photoshop and Digital Photography and now Lightroom gurus in the world, Scott Kelby. Hi Scott.

Scott Kelby: Hi Scott. Thanks, you read that just the way I wrote it. I appreciate that.

Scott Sherman: Well, the way you sent it to me, it went on for over 7 pages. I really – I didn’t have time for all that.

Scott Kelby: Oh well okay, you really summarized it well, thanks. You’re very kind.

Scott Sherman: And if you want someone to testify to your virility and incredible attractive, we’ll get your wife on the phone.

Scott Kelby: Thank you, I appreciate that.

Scott Sherman: I just don’t want to go there. Well, thank you for coming on today. You’re a little under the weather right?

Scott Kelby: Well yeah, I caught a cold in Dallas and it followed me home.

Scott Sherman: Alright, so you don’t always sound like Wilfred – what was his name? – Wilfred Brimley, right, that old character actor?

Scott Kelby: “He’s good for ya.”

Scott Sherman: There you go. So thank you for coming on in your illness. We really appreciate it because we wanted you to be the guest on our first episode of our new podcast, Digital Photography Life, and as some people in the audience know, we did a show before that ran for two-and-a-half years called the Digital Photography Show.

We parted from our previous network and we’re a little disappointed that they actually were never willing to tell people where we went or you know, link to the new show. So we said to our listener in my personal photo blog, you know, help us get the word out. And a couple of people wrote to say, well, if you want to get the word out about the new show, just have Scott Kelby on the first episode because then he’ll blog about it and all of his people will want to hear him and then you’ll get all of those listeners. But I want to say for the record, months ago when I told you we were going to make this switch, even though you weren’t going to be the first guest necessarily, you offered to help us out and we really appreciate that.

Scott Kelby: Well you know, you guys are great. I’m very honored to be the first one on the new show and I’m a fan of your show, and I’m a fan of the people that listen to your show. I gotta tell you, every time I come on, I get e-mails and posts on my blog from your listeners, and man, you have the best listeners on the planet! So believe me, it’s a thrill to get to do this and it certainly is an honor.

Scott Sherman: And I believe that we will continue to have the best listeners not just on the planet, but in the galaxy. But I love just how everybody wrote “Just have Scott Kelby on,” because they know the Kelbinator can get it done.

Scott Kelby: I’ll certainly try there. Put a little pressure on me here.

Scott Sherman: And they figured they would read about it on your blog. Let’s just say ScottKelby.com, which is something you should read every day because you do a lot of posts. Your best posts I have noticed, for some reason, every Wednesday you write with more clarity and intellect than you usually do.

Scott Kelby: That’s very funny. That hurt. I don’t know if you saw the memo but I have feelings.

Scott Sherman: Well no, but that’s one of the cool things about your blog. It’s that every Wednesday you open it up to a guest blogger, right?

Scott Kelby: right I just asked you know, one of the people in the community that already write blogs generally to come in and they can say whatever they want. It’s their blog for the day and it’s worked out very very well. It was really Vincent Versace’s idea because I used to take Wednesdays off. I finally got so busy I said I need No Blog Wednesday, and he said, “No, no, no, you’ve got to try Guest Blog Wednesday” and he went first and he set the bar so high that it’s really taken off since then.

Scott Sherman: No, it’s great, and it’s terrific that you share that with other people so they can reach your readers also. Well you just met a lot of people ‘cause you just came back. Well let’s say first, you’re about, you’ve just started your tour for Lightroom 2, right?

Scott Kelby: Yeah, it just kicked off yesterday in Dallas.

Scott Sherman: Teaching people across the country all about this new program, why you like it so much and sort of how they can get the most out of it. Do you know off-hand how many cities you’re going to?

Scott Kelby: Well, we don’t have the whole year mapped out. So far I’m just doing I think four or five cities before the end of the year. We’re doing of course Dallas, Orlando, Florida, Los Angeles, California. We’re going to hit, I believe, Denver and perhaps one more. And then next year of course we’ll have a whole year schedule all over the place. But we’re just trying to get a few in before the end of the year and then next year we’ll have the whole thing laid out.

And starting next year also I’ll be doing some cities and Matt Kloskowski who works with me and runs Lightroom Killer Tips will also be taking some of the cities as well, so we’ll be kind of splitting the tour.

Scott Sherman: Oh, cool. Okay, that’ll be twice the Kelbian goodness out there.

Scott Kelby: That’s what I was thinking.

Scott Sherman: With Matt’s assistance. A little clone of you.

Scott Kelby: Oh you know, a clone’s usually an exact copy. Matt’s better than me, so it’s...

Scott Sherman: Matt’s very funny too, I like Matt.

Scott Kelby: Yeah, Matt’s terrific, man. People love him. He’s a great trainer. He knows Lightroom inside out and he’ll do a kick-butt job.

Scott Sherman: Okay, so you’ve been doing a lot of talking and you will be doing a lot of talking about Lightroom 2. We’re going to come back to that topic because I just – last night I worked through your latest book, The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 2 Book for Digital Photographers. But first, let’s talk about some cool stuff that you just recently got to have some time with because you went to a big photo exhibition in New York last week, right?

Scott Kelby: Yeah, I went to Photo Plus East and you know, it’s a great show. I think it’s become like the big photo show in America. And of course, being in New York, it makes sense that you have a huge turn-out and it seems like a show that would be in New York. Lots of cool stuff. I think that the show might’ve been a little smaller this year but I think everybody pretty much expected that. But still, a lot of big booths there, a lot of big names there. I had a great time. I taught in a bunch of different booths. I did Lightroom demos over at Westcott. I taught at Adobe’s booth for a couple of days. I did stuff for Peachpit and just met a lot of great people.

I love New York. I do seminars up there quite a bit so as I’m walking down the hallways I’m getting to meet people left and right that have been to one of my seminars or bought books and things. So it’s a lot of fun. It’s just a fun show to go to.

Scott Sherman: Well tell us about the cool things you saw there. What kind of was capturing the interest of crowd? What were people really interested in? And did you see any new technology or gadgets or programs there that you got excited about?

Scott Kelby: Actually the one thing that really really I thought was fascinating was, a friend of mine works for Canon, and we were talking and he brought me over to George Lebs, who speaks for us for Photoshop World. And George said, “ You gotta see the Canon 5D Mark II High Def Video.” And he played a little clip for me he made on his Mac in iMovie and it was a combination of stills and then live video put together into one slideshow with music, and it was – the quality of the video that that camera shoots is just terrifying.

I mean, I was like, it looked just incredible! You know, you get depth of field out of that camera that most people won’t even get out of a $5000 video camera because you’re able to use the depth of field of traditionally camera lenses, where normally if you buy a video camera, I mean like we have in our video department, right? We’ve got these really nice high-end Panasonic HD cameras. But they don’t have that crazy depth of field. If they want to have real depth of field effects like you see in motion pictures, they’ve got to buy an adaptor and then actually use films lenses in the front and over their video lenses. Well, this Canon 5D Mark II, it was shooting High Def video with depth of field like you’d get with a camera. It was incredible; it was like motion-picture stuff!

Scott Sherman: Did you see the Vincent Laforet video that he shot,” Reverie”?

Scott Kelby: No I haven’t seen it. R.C. sent me the link to that one and every day I have my list of things that I want to do and to watch that video is one of the things, I still haven’t seen it. Everybody was talking about that though at the show. Every time I mention that, they go “Did you see the Vincent Laforet one?”  And no, I haven’t seen it yet, so I better do that before I’m the last goober on earth to see it.

Scott Sherman: Okay so I just re-sent it to you just this second so it’s at the top of your inbox.

Scott Kelby: Thank you.

Scott Sherman: You might have heard the little Mac e-mail heading to you. But it’s amazing. It’s crazy good.

Scott Kelby: Oh, I’m not surprised.

Scott Sherman: It’s better than most of what you see in a video, in a professional movie.

Scott Kelby: Yeah it’s just, I really lucked out there. I was with my buddy Larry Becker. We were walking away from the booth and I said, “You know what, between what Nikon did with the D90, which – it’s not High Definition, but it’s still like wide-screen and very nice.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Scott Kelby: A friend of mine has it and we shot with it and it was like, “Wow!” And what they did with that Canon, I’m like, you’re really seeing a shift in what we’re going to be doing. Because what I think is this, Scott – when you go to a rock concert right, you’re shooting a concert. Well even if you’re officially approved to be shooting for the first three songs which is generally all you get to shoot, video cameras are forbidden. All you can shoot is a DSLR.

Scott Sherman: Right

Scott Kelby: Now all of a sudden you know, you’re doing that. And let’s just saw you’re shooting a Jewish wedding and a lot of times they’ll let the photographer go back behind the bride and groom and shoot forward. But the video guys are stuck back in the aisles on the sticks or the tripod legs. All of a sudden you’re snapping some, you know, stills and you switch to video. I mean when you start to think of all the areas – because I thought it was a gimmick at first. Oh, you know it’s kind of gimmicky, who would – There’s a buddy of mine, he phrased it this way – when was the last time you were sitting around with your friends, your camera friends, and you said, “I really love this Nikon D3, if it just had video!” you know. And you’re right, it’s just a gimmick, but all of a sudden when you start to think of all the ways that people will start being able to use video and incorporate video into what they’re doing, once I saw that slideshow at the Canon booth I was like, it just started my mind thinking “Wow!” you know, that really makes a strong presentation. And he did a thing where he stacked up an 800mm lens – that was like a 400m and then he put a two times extender on it to shoot this antelope up in the mountains. Then he put a 1.4 on top of that and he had 1200mm. And it still looked great! It was just incredible.

Scott Sherman: Well I know you’ve shot with the previous generation, the 5D, and you liked it, right?

Scott Kelby: Oh yeah, I liked the 5D quite a bit but when I used the Mark III, the 1D Mark III, I was like “Wha!!!” I mean that was like a whole other era. So I imagine the 5D Mark II is going to be again in that same kind of feel as the Mark III, which is just incredible.

Scott Sherman: Our audience has a lot of interest in that camera for a full-framed camera coming in at a very good price of about $2800. It’s getting a lot of attention and I expect to hear from a lot of people who are going to pick one up.

Scott Kelby: Okay, so, here’s what – do you want to hear my conspiracy theory?

Scott Sherman: Yes.

Scott Kelby: Ok, it’s not really a conspiracy theory, it’s a prediction. It’s not a conspiracy, that’s not the word.

Scott Sherman: Okay.

Scott Kelby: So, Canon’s had, you know, coming out with the 21 mega-pixel big one and Nikon hasn’t yet. And everybody was expecting, all the rumor mills were expecting that Nikon would introduce the 21 mega-pixel camera. They still haven’t done it.

Scott Sherman: Right

K: I have absolutely inside information on this whatsoever. Nikon doesn’t call me and tell me secrets. But I’m guessing that what’s holding up that 21 mega-pixel is that it’s going to have High Def Video and that’s why it’s not out yet. When they saw what was coming down the pike from Canon, they said, “We can’t just put out another camera without High Def video!” We’ve got Low Def video in our cheapy camera.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Scott Kelby: Are we gonna just sit there and let people go, “Well I wanted to buy the Nikon, but the Canon’s got High Definition Video, so I’ll go with Canon. I mean it would be a thing that I could see would tip the scales. So without having any real prior or whatever, I think that if and when Nikon comes out with a 21 - and everyone thinks they’re going to, that’s not any kind of inside information – it’s you know, how could they not?  They go back and forth matching each other tit for tat. I imagine that if and when it does come out, it’s going to have High Def Video.

High Def Video and something else. One other little thing that maybe the Canons don’t have to tip the scales in their favor.

Scott Sherman: And then Canon will come out with that a year from now. I mean it’s a real game of leapfrog but it works out.

Scott Kelby: Hey, two years from now it’ll be a standard feature. Two years from now in DSLRs when we’re onto the Nikon D4s and the Canon 60s and all, it’ll be “And yep, it’s got video.”

Scott Sherman: With stereo sound and shoot an unlimited amount, you know. I don’t know if the Mark II has that limitation where it can – I don’t think it can shoot more than 5 minutes of High Def right, 'cause it heats up too much.

Scott Kelby: Oh yeah, I don’t know enough about it to know what it does but...

Scott Sherman: And you know it’ll come with a lens that can actually focus while it’s zooming. It’s all gonna converge into this one mega-device.

Scott Kelby: Yeah and then little inputs on the camera so you can use an external microphone. I mean, you can see where it’s going.

Scott Sherman: Yeah, but I’m dying to play with the Mark II. I’m on the list for a review copy. I’ll let you know.

Scott Kelby: Alright.

Scott Sherman: Now let’s get onto now, cause when we get talking, Scott, you and I can go on. I’m tempted to ask you about the Micro Four-Thirds format, but I’m going to skip that for now.

Scott Kelby: Thank you.

Scott Sherman: Let’s talk about Lightroom 2 because you are a big evangelist for Adobe’s products. You do not, as far as I know, actually get paid for every copy of these products that are sold. You genuinely love them, right?

Scott Kelby: Yeah, I wish I got a copy. I’d take 5 cents, a dime, anything, no. Here’s the thing is that I know some people certainly see me as an evangelist of these products but a lot of people see me and certainly Adobe sees me as a, almost a consumer advocate of them. Because I’ve got to imagine when the phone rings at Adobe and they see it’s my number they’re like “Oh god, it’s Scott. Tell him we’re in a meeting! Hang up! Run” Because every time I call there I’m complaining on behalf of users. There’s a feature I want or something’s not working the way it should or whatever. So I don’t think that when I call they’re like, “Oh great it’s Scott.” I think when I call they’re like, “Oh no, here we go.”

Because I kind of feel like the very very high end of the market I think is well represented by people who love Adobe. But I always kind of think of myself as the guy who represents the wedding photographer from Cincinnati and the portrait photographer from Atlanta. And you know, I think I kind of represent everybody else, you know, that is kind of out there trying to make a living, so I kind of feel they look to me to kind of you know, if there’s things wrong to go and be vocal about it. And every time I write a review of a product like Photoshop CS4 or something, at the end I have this thing that Adobe hates called “What I didn’t like” and then I list all the things I think they did wrong.

You don’t usually see that in a review about Adobe from someone who’s a big evangelist. They usually skip that last part. But I think it’s important.

Scott Sherman: Yeah I think that’s fair and I guess you know what is more accurate to say. You’re more of an evangelist for being able to take this incredible technology and for it’s time every version of Photoshop and Lightroom offers people more power than the previous version. And putting it into the hands of regular people – some full-time working pros, some advanced amateurs, some enthusiasts, and really making all of those tools that are often buried in these programs or incomprehensible, making them very usable by normal people.

Scott Kelby: Right.

Scott Sherman: That’s how I sort of see you as an evangelist, like someone who spreads the word because you make it something that people can use. I think that – I was just as I say, working through Lightroom 2 yesterday with your book and I was thinking, if I wasn’t learning the program like this, I’d never know you could do these things.

Scott Kelby: Oh and I guess that’s where the evangelism part comes in. I’m not evangelizing on behalf of Adobe.

Scott Sherman: Right.

Scott Kelby: I’m evangelizing on the behalf of people who want to spend more time behind the camera and less time struggling with managing their images. And I think I’ve really found a way that just changes the way you work in a huge way and whether it was Adobe who made it or somebody else made it, I would be the first one to go, “Hey guys, you’ve gotta use this thing.” And so, that’s kind of I think where I come from. I really want people to have more fun. It gets me excited to see people get excited. It gets me excited to see people go, “Man, this is, my life was just a mess and everything was confusing and now I have this structure and I’m happy and I feel like I got everything under control. For me that’s like “Woo!” I love that. So that’s kind of my thing.

Scott Sherman: And you’re totally into it. I mean, you are very enthusiastic about this stuff – you follow it like a true fan-boy yourself and you can tell it in your writing how excited you are about some of these new features. So you can share your energy now. What is it that you do like about Lightroom 2? Why is it – first of all, for people who don’t know, what does Lightroom basically do?

Scott Kelby: Okay, well, a lot of people think that Lightroom is a replacement for The Bridge and Camera Raw and it is – it does replace the bridge and Camera Raw but that’s not why you switch to Lightroom. Lightroom is – well I’ll just give you an example. It’s 80% of my time. It may be even 85 is spent in Lightroom. I’m only in Photoshop about 15 – 20% of the time now and the reason is because Lightroom is so so so much faster. It is just a very logical, very well-designed way to manage thousands and thousands of images, all of your images. Where The Bridge is set up to manage your last shoot. Camera Raw is designed to process the photos from your last shoot. But Lightroom is a database that lets you organize and edit and correct and present your work to your customers and print your work all in one place.

And all of the 5 things that Lightroom does I think it does significantly better than the same 5 things that you could do in Photoshop. For example, the library module in Lightroom kills the bridge. There’s not even a comparison. I’ve even thought of doing a side-by-side video that would go, here’s how you’d do it in the bridge, look how much faster, better and easier it is here in Lightroom. Here’s how you do this in the bridge, look how much better it is in Lightroom. And there’s so many more features and so – you know what it is? The Bridge has to appeal to everybody. It has to be able to show video, ahs to be able to support PDFs, da-da-da-da-da. Lightroom was built from the ground up for photographers. It thinks like a photographer, it uses terms like a photographer, and it’s like we always say, there’s a reason why The Bridge is free.

Because if people had to pay for The Bridge, I’m not sure they’d pay for The Bridge unless they were graphic designers that needed it to be able to manage all these different assets like PDFs and Quicktime movie clips and In Design documents and images.

So, it kills it there. The develop module in Lightroom has all the features of Camera Raw and features that even in CS4 Camera Raw still doesn’t have. Then there’s a slideshow module, there’s a module for doing slideshows, custom-created slideshows. Well you really can’t do custom-created slideshows period in Photoshop whatsoever. Not in The Bridge, not in Photoshop. There is kind of a rudimentary slideshow thing that you could use.

Then there is the web module. You can’t even compare the web gallery creation in The Bridge and in Photoshop to what they do in Lightroom. Lightroom’s is brilliant. And then the printing – that’s what really gets everybody. Once you print out of Lightroom you go, “I can’t even believe I used to print out in Photoshop.” The printing is so much more advanced, so much better, so much faster, offer so many more options that you’re like, “I can’t believe anybody prints out in Photoshop anymore.” So the things that it does, it kills.

Scott Sherman: So you said that you’re spending 85% of your time roughly in Lightroom. I’m going to ask you for another percentage. And you’re still shooting weddings, you do product shots, you do shots for your books, you do landscapes, you do a variety of shootings, I’m sure hundreds of images a week. Of the images that you sort of take from start to finish, what percentage of those do you never even need to take into Photoshop. Can you take basically all your adjustments and all of your editing in Lightroom?

Scott Kelby: About 80%.

Scott Sherman: And what would you say the percentage was in Lightroom 2?

Scott Kelby: Well, in Lightroom 2 it’s close to 80%.

Scott Sherman: I’m sorry, I meant Lightroom 1. I apologize.

Scott Kelby: Well, you know what it was? You hit a wall every time you needed to make a selection. Every time I just wanted to brighten one little part of the image, because everything in Lightroom 1 was global. Every slider affected the whole image equally. That was what was really missing and that’s what’s changed everything – is adding the adjustment brush and the gradient filter. It now allows you to do so many things that you used to have to jump over to Photoshop for.

Now don’t get me wrong, there are still a bunch of stuff you have to jump over to Photoshop for. And the kind of things I would jump over to Photoshop for are, well, Lightroom doesn’t have layers. Lightroom doesn’t let you do detailed photo retouching for like portraits and stuff. There’s no pen tool for selections. You can’t do professional typography. You can’t stitch a panorama, although Lightroom and Photoshop are linked together for stitching of panoramas, the actual stitching of the panoramas happens in Photoshop. There’s no filters. You really can’t do many special effects inside of Lightroom. There are some that you can do, but only what you could in Camera Raw. You can’t even add canvas size. You can’t use lab color. You can’t create custom brushes. You can’t run actions, you can’t run scripts. You can’t use plug-ins yet. You can’t do detailed cloning. There are still so many things that you ne