Episode 219 - David Spark on Brand Journalism
David Spark has a fresh, smart way to give your brand a voice in the market that is efficient and most effective when done at a conference your company is attending.
He calls it, brand journalism (an old way of saying it is custom publishing or content marketing). What he does is build editorial (produce videos and content) that is associated with your brand. That helps your company associate themselves with a big industry issue. For example in the case study white paper David got Tripwire associated with the topic of “compliance” in the security industry through creating videos and articles. And recently for another case he helped increase Zoho’s visibility with CRM.
If you're attending a conference, have a booth or speak op and want to intelligently leverage that time and energy, hire David to create a ton of video, articles, session overviews, Tweets, FB Page posts and influencer interviews that push you to the top of the content visibility for an event.
This can be done at any time but the reason it’s valuable to do this at a live event is that everything is compressed in terms of people and content in a very short period of time. So we can talk about brand journalism, and specifically doing it around live events and why it’s so valuable to do it then.
Susan Bratton: Welcome to DishyMix. I'm your host, Susan Bratton. And on today's show you're going to get to meet David Spark from Spark Media Solutions. Now I've known David for a long time and I see him at pretty much conference and event that I go to because what he's been doing is what he calls brand journalism, and you might think of as custom publishing or content marketing. He builds editorial. He produces videos and content that's associated with a brand, and that helps a company associate themselves with an industry issue.
So we're going to talk to David about how he creates this content at primarily at events, and that gives a company a major voice around an issue or a subject matter that helps them connect with their customers in a really thought leader way. I really like the work that he's doing, and we're going to talk to him about how he organizes it, how he puts it together, how he plans it, when he goes to an event, what he does, and then how he radiates that information for a brand to give him a larger, share a voice in a marketplace. So please welcome David Spark of Spark Media Solutions to DishyMix. Hey David.
David Spark: Susan, thank you so much for having me on your show.
Susan Bratton: Are you kidding me? It's my pleasure man. I'm glad to have you on. I've been watching you work your buns of steel off on every event around, and I really appreciate the work you do. It's super high quality and I love the angle that you have carved out in your marketplace.
David Spark: I'm fortunate. I haven't seen anyone do it exactly like the way I do it. I mean there are plenty of other people who produce content at shows and do videos. I mean I'm far from the only one who does it. But I very much have this one-man band style. I'm actually in Chicago right now because I'm starting to cover an event that's starting tonight called Social Death Camp here in Chicago, then I'm off to Las Vegas to cover VM World. So actually you caught me at a good time, I'm about to do two different shows.
Susan Bratton: Excellent! All right, so why don't we start with a level set David. Explain, lets just say that you're going to a client and you're explaining what you do and how it works and what it costs and the overarching concept. So think about us listening to you right now as being a prospect. How do you explain this so that it makes sense to us and we're a yes?
David Spark: Most companies want to be visible in social media and search. That's just an overarching issue. One of the issues that I keep impressing upon them is that you need to create content, of which sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. One of the other big issues is the desire and the need to be visible in your industry and to connect with influencers. And all of this, every single thing I just said can be had super cost efficiently by producing a content at a live event.
Susan Bratton: Yeah, you've got everybody there.
David Spark: Right.
Susan Bratton: They're sometimes standing around, and it's great to use their brains and get all that stuff down on video, audio, etcetera, right?
David Spark: Right. I mean, you are, the things that cost the most about content production is gathering the assets. That's just the simple fact of the matter. That is where the biggest cost is. And one of the things I sort of impress upon a client, like one of my past clients was called the CMO Club. And they'd have like about 60 to 100 CMO's, VP's of marketing in one room. And, you know, if they said to me, "I want you go to and interview 20 CMO's, VP's of marketing or different, you know, B2B companies," or whatever, well if there was no event involved, if I was not going to a conference, the cost of doing something like that is astronomically higher, because let me explain all the costs involved.
You have to, I have to call the Media Relations Department, I have to tell them what this is for, I have to get my questions pre approved, I get a higher recruit, I got to bring them down, I got to set up a three point lighting and get it in. Now we're talking thousands per video, where the way I operate, because I'm doing it in quantity, I can do it down to just a few hundred dollars cost per video, and you know, it's just, the cost differential is huge, the connections are huge, the relationship benefits are huge. We, you know, that's one of the actually the enormous benefits. So that's really one of the major reasons it's done. Then I show them examples of my work and how happy clients have been and they're like, "All right, lets do it."
Susan Bratton: All right, so tell me about, I want you to come to a conference, I'm a brand. I want to capture a lot of content. What kind of content would you recommend we capture? What kind of people from the organization, what kind of briefing do we need to do? Lets get it set up, and then we'll go to the what happens on site and what happens afterward.
David Spark: Right. So there's a whole pre-production process that we go through, and like the questions you very much asked are the questions that are asked. So what kind of event, you know... Ideally we want an event with as many visuals as possible because we are producing videos, and also we do other kinds of content too. People get very jazzed by video, but believe it or not, video doesn't do the traffic numbers that traditional just good old-fashioned blog posts do. So a lot of my content production events are me just sitting with a computer typing and writing the summary of a session, believe it or not.
And then also when I produce the videos there'll be content that goes beside it, you know, a description of video as well. So for example, one of my clients that I'm going to VM World for, it's a company called [Inaudible]. We went through a whole process of they identified some of the influencers that they'd love to have on camera, some of the people who are speaking at sessions that they would love to have on camera. And then I always, when I talk to a client I say, "Give me a list that's way to long," and there's the rationale behind that. When you're in a conference where there are thousands and thousands of people, trying to find one person. So literally they'll go, "Oh we want an interview with these five people," well then it's like a needle in a haystack, or I have to set up interviews beforehand.
And I'll just tell you, that whole process of trying to set up interviews beforehand, nightmare. Because I won't be able to do the quantity that I can do 'cause I usually do a bare minimum, I'll shot 10 videos a day of which we'll post-produce them. But I've done even more; I've done as many as like 25 videos, you know, in a day. And that has to do with a lot of different factors and it has to do with set up and the physical sort of makeup of the event, where if I have to physically run to different locations to get every interview. I'm usually a fan of just give me the list of names, and I'm going to try to get as many of these names on this list as possible. And so far it's worked out because you do kind of naturally run into a lot of these people, especially when you go as press because I go as media only covering the event that I just have to be sponsored by this company, and that's the big thing.
Susan Bratton: Okay, you're at the event, you're shooting video. I love the idea of writing up there, you know. Usually they've got some kind of a panel that they're on or whatever, so that gives you incremental content. So you're shooting video, you're doing session write-ups. What other kinds of content might you produce or would you, could you produce during a two or three day event for a company?
David Spark: So the two other, probably the most popular videos I produce is one of them I call them party videos where I'll just ask them a single question, and it's usually kind of an open end question where it really gets to a personal issue. Like I was at this RSA conference, which is a big security conference for Trip Wire. And I asked people on the show floor just one question, I said, "What do you think is the most over hyped issue in security right now?" And what was funny is almost everybody said the cloud, 'cause that was the big issue at the conference. And actually it, as a result it turned out to be very, very funny, as a result.
But what I do is I'll get like 20 peoples answers to it, we comp it all together, and what's really funny is when people say completely diametrically opposed things and you edit them together, makes it a really fun video. So those I call my party videos. Then I do what I call end of show report videos, which look very much like a news video where my head is framed to the side, and I'd been at the vent two, three days, I sort of put together a summary of all the things that I've seen at the event, turns it into a five minute video, and then I do, my editor makes over the shoulder graphics of what we're talking about. And especially if they're photos that were shot at the event, either I shot them or the event shot them, I'll include those in the over the shoulder graphics. Those usually do really well, those sort of summary of the day or summary of the show event, 'cause people usually want a synopsis of everything that went on.
Susan Bratton: Now any other kinds of content that you also create or that you've always wanted to and no one's ever done it or anything like that? I'm kind of looking for the, you know, the full panoply of possibility as far as content creation during an event for a brand.
David Spark: I haven't done a comic strip yet and I'd like to do that. I mean I wouldn't produce it, I'd hire an artist to create something like that, but that would kind of [inaudible]. Well I've done tons of podcasts, I've produced two different podcast series for Sprint, but those weren't actually specifically at an event. And a lot of article writing, and I also have sort of different styles for article writing. Like for a panel session, it's very hard to have a unified story in a panel session because people are always kind of speaking their mind and they go off.
So usually what it does is become a bullet point, a series of bullet points, sort of comments and tips. Like here's what people were saying, and that becomes kind of a good way to cover a panel session. Unlike if it's just a single person talking, then you can kind of get a whole story going 'cause often they also have slides that accompany it. We have, those are pretty much the most common ones. And then also, excuse me, we do lots of demo videos of products. So we want to cover products that are on the show.
For anything that's weird that's happening on the show floor, heck, I was at [Inaudible] this year and one company had a mechanical bull there. Well I have to shoot that. I mean that's funny, that's entertaining, it's silly. And the guy, they had a guy who was a barker who was acting silly about it, and he was challenging people. He goes, "I'll give you $20 if you can ride this for 8 seconds," and so I had to capture all that. And that became actually a really popular video as well. So I talk with my clients, I'm like, "We need structure, we need to give me some liberty, so like when I see the mechanical bull you let me shoot the mechanical bull," that kind of thing.
Susan Bratton: Now what about tweets and Facebook pages? What are you doing with those two channels?
David Spark: Really good question. So what I always do is when I produce all the videos - so the two things I do: often I act as a one-man band, shoot all the videos and we post produce them in a week. But in some cases - and this is what I'll always recommend, it's just more expensive - I'll bring in a video editor on site, and then advantage of doing that is the immediacy of the content. People's interest in the content of a conference is extremely heightened while the show is going on. A week afterwards, not as strong. So that's why it's always advantageous to try to produce as much at the event.
Now I've done things where I'll shot it with a flip video camera and I can produce it right away; the problem is you don't get that sort of nice post-production touch with the lower third graphics and other graphics and animation that might go in the video as well that are sort of, you know, stables of the company's sort of look and brand, and that's what we always post-produce the videos with. But if that's not as important, we can shoot the videos with a flip camera and get them up literally within an hour, or if you're willing to spend the money we can get a video editor on site. So getting to your question about Twitter and Facebook, the reason that that's important in terms of how fast the content goes out is if it's going out while the event's happening then we can start tweeting the videos while they're happening and getting a response. I mean in both cases of the RSA conference, my Twitter handle and my client's Twitter handle were the most retweeted handles at the event because we were pushing the content out while the event was happening.
So it's always a good idea to take advantage of that. The other thing that's really important, and this is why it's always a good idea to interview influencers, is you know, I interview you Susan and you go out of your way to want to help me out. So after I interview you I send you an email and say, "Hey by the way, your video is up," and you end up tweeting it out or maybe Facebooking or blogging or whatever you do. Influencers become influencers because people are recording them, because they're getting their opinion out. So anyway that I can record it for you, let you know it's out, you will inevitably tweet it out. And what the huge advantage of that is is now I have access to your audience, which I may not have had beforehand, but the fact that I interviewed you, recorded it, let you know it's available, now I have access.
Susan Bratton: All right, after the event if it is in fact of most interest during the event, what are some of the things that you do at an event to take advantage of the fact that everyone is there, that you can stage over time to keep - you know, you don't want to have this big blip of content I would imagine. You'd like to have this nice steady state of content always going out to establish yourself as a market leader. So what are some of the things you can do at the event to get content that is more evergreen overtime?
David Spark: Well that all depends on what the topic is. Yeah, so if there's a big breaking news story we're not going to get it out faster than the trades are. The trades are going to get that out faster than us, so I don't even push that. In some cases you do want a big bulk of content at the event because it then sort of raises your profile, but yes, one of the advantages of producing all of the event is now, okay, now we have a bunch of assets. So I went to this one conference, shot 25 videos and now my client has assets to roll out over time, which is great. Most of the content at the event, it all depends on the event, it's kind of evergreen. It was a CRM conference for a client Zoho. That's pretty evergreen content, CRM, evergreen for maybe five, six months.
You know, nothing in technology, beyond that. So, you know, I'm qualifying that content. But it all depends, you know. Like for example if I'm trying to interview people at [inaudible], which I've done before, well if it's a late breaking product like a tablet, I'm not going to get that out right away, the trades are going to get that out for me. But if it's content that can last a little bit longer, then we can push it out. It all depends on the nature of the conference and what the client's objective is in general, and we can kind of work that out. The other thing is, they may say, "There's one thing that's going to break and I want to get this out right away." Well then I'll change the way I do the video production or the writing of that, and we'll get it out right away during the event. It all depends.
Susan Bratton: What are some of the things that you do for the marketing person, and what are some of the things you do for the CEO to help increase their credibility in the marketplace? And I think they're probably potentially some different things. And the marketing person hires you and they hire you to promote the company and the senior executives, but they'd like some publicity too. How can you help that?
David Spark: The big thing here is connecting with the influencers. That's the critical part. So like where we talk about the pre-production process, it's about finding who those key influencers are, and a lot of times they're not on their radar because of their traditional technique of having a relationship with an influencer or press person is, a, "Would you come by our booth and see our demo for ten minutes", and it's a whole thing of "Pay attention to us." So it's my argument why you hire our company is, "Lets pay attention to that. Lets show interest in that." And by doing that it's initiating the relationship. I'm caring about you, I'm showing what I care about you, and that way that will in turn come back to the marketing department, come back to the CEO in different ways.
The marketing department will realize, "Oh I got this relationship with an influencer," so the next time I want to talk to them about, "Hey, we got a new product release," it's going to be a much easier call rather than kind of a cold call like "I'm bugging you." Like, "Hey, remember we interviewed you at the big conference? Well just so happens that we have this new thing that's available, thought you might be interested." It's a much easier call to handle. Now with the CEO, now that you have relationships with these influencers - if they need their opinion on something, they want to get their input on something, or they want to bring them like a brainstorming session - once again, so much easier, because we started the relationship. My whole attitude is you're hiring our organization to either begin or foster better relationships rather than having this relationship of, "Pay attention to me, pay attention to me." Lets pay attention to them, and inevitably, because of the way a relationship works, they're going to care about you.
Susan Bratton: That makes sense. And what about content distribution? You create these videos, you create articles, you create tweets, you create blog posts. That's all oriented toward the company pushing it out to their channels, to their friends, fans, followers, subscribers, whatever, customers, prospects. What can you do, besides getting the influencer that you interviewed, to promote that piece of content to their audience? So there's some other ways that you can get distribution for the content you're producing.
David Spark: Right. So the classic, you describe what the classic is it produces content, it goes up onto the client's blog, which by the way you don't have a blog I highly recommend you get one. That is the best way to handle it. So that's the primary rule. But one of the things is I, not only do I do this brand journalism thing, but I have had and still continue to be a tech journalist. I have over 15 years of experience in more than 40 media outlets. What that also means is I got hundreds of relationships with media outlets that love our content. They love it a lot. And so what I can do often - and my relationships, they vary from extremely good to "I barely know these people, you know. Like I met them once." But what I'm saying is we have these relationships can distribute content on other sites.
Now I can qualify that almost all of our clients are in the tech world or like tech marketing field, you know. So marketing and tech. So, you know, the healthcare industry, I don't really have any contacts, you know, in sort of media distribution, but in tech and social media I got lots of relationships there, they want to publish our content. So not only will we publish on your site, but we can get it published on other sites as well except to get a lot more traffic in yours, and that's usually really good. If I'm working with a client and they're just launching their blog, you know, where they have essentially zero traffic, so we put up all this content on their site, no one's going to come. So if we put it up on other sites to get more traffic, then it sort of announces to the world, "By the way, we have a blog," we have all this content, all this traffic. So that's one of the best ways to do it.
Another really good technique is we get access to, we can often get access to the media lists or just do some basic research of people who are influencers in the space that may or not be at the conference, especially if they're not at the conference. I will reach out to them and say, "Hey, I'm going to the conference, I'm shooting a bunch of videos, I don't know if you are or aren't going to be there. A, if you're there I'd love to interview you. If not you can have our content if you'd like it, or if there's someone you'd like us to interview or some story you'd like us to get, I'd be happy to try to go after it for you." Well this works really well because I'm giving them something. I'm not asking, you know, "Would you write about us," but I'm saying, "Hey, here's some content from..." And by the way, I should mention that all of the content is branded with the client's info on it, so the cube on the microphone known as a microphone flag, has the client's name on it. We put a plug in the corner with the client's name. So if this video goes anywhere, everyone knows sort of who it came from, you know, who was the one who sort of sponsored it.
Susan Bratton: How do you research influencers? How do you figure out who influencers are today in this world?
David Spark: If I'm doing it all by myself, it's actually not too hard. I mean we actually have tons and tons of tools out there. Like for example I'm doing one thing where I have to find, recruit people who are influencers in the recruiting space. Well one way is to just do a search on recruiting blogs and see who's writing for it, and it's a lot of just digging around - like going to the masthead, finding the email addressed, the Twitter handles and whatnot. Another thing is say you want to find, I had to do another thing where I had to find the most popular marketing podcasts out there. Well, you know what, you can go to iTunes, go into the marketing section and it's sorted by the top 20 most popular marketing podcasts. Well go through all 20 of those, find out, you know, whose making their email addresses, their Twitter addresses.
Another trick is go to a site like Listerias.com, which has Twitter lists that other people have created, and do a search on, say, marketing podcasts, or recruiting. Someone else has created a list of the most important people in recruiting or in marketing podcasts. So these are all different techniques of finding who these people are. It's not, they're not like in a very easy digestible way. You really have to sort of manually create this list to find where their email address is and their Twitter handle and stuff. And then just reach out to them and talk to them beforehand in very much a giving way, and that's a key thing.
So much - first of all, I'm always on the press lists of all these conferences I go to, and every communication - and I'm not saying there's one case of it not being - every communications to me is, "Do you want to have a meeting with us," and "Here's our release, come by our booth." Every single piece of content. I'm taking it the 180, the other way around. "Don't come see me; I want to come see you. Where are you, and what opinions do you have? What do you want to talk about? I just want to record it. I'm interested in you." And it's a very, very different way of getting attention.
Susan Bratton: And the fact that a company can hire you to do all that for them is awesome, 'cause it takes a lot of time.
David Spark: It does take a lot of work. Yeah, I mean, and also I should mention a lot of my system is really just finding a way to shave two minutes here, two minutes there, two minutes there. I'm able to produce a ton of content in the beginning of the day because I can figure out all these ways to shave a couple of minutes, a couple of minutes, a couple of minutes. You know, people always say to me, "Why did you do this? Why did you do that?" And I'm like, "I can do all of that, but now costs go up and I can't produce as much in a given period of time." I mean when I see other people producing video at an event, there are two different models. It's at least a two to three person crew, or they've set up a booth with a three-point lighting with multiple cameras and they're shooting. Now these are all good ways to shoot video.
The problem is when you set up like a booth space - and depending on how the way they shoot it, they may show the background - but often you don't get the excitement of the space, so often when you see me shooting video interviews with people you'll see people moving in the background, I kind of like show the excitement of the room. Also it also makes sense of why you're hearing background noise. I mean when you see someone doing this who doesn't have experience they'll go to a blank wall and just interview someone against a blank wall. Well two problems with that: one is you've got background natural sound and people are like "Why is there all this background noise and all I see is a blank wall"; and two, it's really uninteresting. You don't get that depth appeal and you also don't get the excitement of "Oh we're at a conference right now. This is really cool. I should be looking at this."
So that's the other thing. So my technique is just I'm shaving things down to try to get the, to do the most with the least and then also on top of it like if I go to a conference session - let me give you a perfect example of a quick way to shave two minutes. I know I'm going to go to a specific conference session during a, a panel session during a conference. When I go on the event show page they will list the names of the people, the companies they work for and their titles, and they'll have a description of the contents. What I will do is pre-write a blog post. I will write - and this will change - I'll write as sort of a guest at the title of, I'll either put the session title in or make up my own title, I will put the names of the moderator and the fore panelist down, and I'll write sort of a, I'll mention like, "We're at the VM World Conference where we're talking about this, this and this, and here are the panelists and this." That process takes about five, six minutes. If I write that beforehand, then I don't have to deal with that at the show, and it's those little things - and I've got literally a hundred of them - those little things that allow you to produce a crazy volume of content in a short period of time because the tradeshow floor is only open from 10 to 6 and I'm always biding time. I'm always rushing against time. And so any time you can shave five minutes here and there, you do it.
Susan Bratton: I recently keynoted, last week I keynoted at the Search Engine Strategies Show in San Francisco. And I got some nice blog coverage for my keynote - mm, three, four different people blogged...
David Spark: That's excellent.
Susan Bratton: blogged an overview of the keynote. And when I saw that afterward I thought to myself, "Huh, it would've been a really good idea for me to get the press list, and send an email out saying, you know, 'I'd like to talk to you about my subject matter," and you know, my goal would be to get more people, more blogs in that audience covering my keynote. What would you recommend as the way to turn those tables the way you do and create a, how can I be in service to bloggers so they cover my keynote more?
David Spark: Well it can be an exchange type thing. So for example, you say, you may have one question that comes from your keynote, like "How do I raise my search ranks?" I'm just making up a question. And just, and I would send out that question to all the, to the bloggers and go, "Hey, I'm keynoting this conference, but then I want to interview you afterwards." Don't say interview me, because again, this is a self-serving thing. "I want to interview you afterwards, and here's my question." And you could say it from the stage too even. And that draws people to you afterwards. I mean I'm sure you get flooded after keynote, you always get flooded from people.
But if you give someone an action item, "Come up and I would love to interview you," and you know, if you're getting flooded you could ask, you know, someone else to, you know, if you have a partner there to actually be shooting the videos for you. But then you're getting all these assets for them, and then what happens afterwards, so you shoot, you get like 20 quick answers from a bunch of different people. Then you comp that video together, and you push it out to those, you know, bloggers, as you said, "By the way, thanks for coming to my keynote. Here's the video that I created of all of you guys." So one of two things are going to happen. Either they're going to publish that video, link to it, tweet to it, whatever, and/or mention you and link to your blog, article or whatnot, any god other stuff. So you're giving them an asset that is then back to them, but you're also saying, "Here's another asset that I've created." It's not being self-serving. It's saying, "Here's something that I asked you a question, you gave to me, and I'm giving it back to you, so here it is," and then you also, "If you want, here's the information from my keynote as well." And you're just giving them both assets, and chances are they're going to want to send both out.
Susan Bratton: That was good. Thank you. Just that alone I thought was, you know, your whole idea of brand journalism, doing it at conferences, how to leverage corporate speaking engagements, how to create a lot of content and push it out to a lot of channels, and how to approach journalists, bloggers, influencers, in a way that you're bringing value to them. These are all, I think, extremely forward thinking very timely, very sophisticated, very sharp business strategies. And I'm really glad to have you on the show today because you're flipping them model a lot David, and it makes a lot of sense for companies. The thing I'm worried about now that you've come on DishyMix is that you're going to have so much business that you're going to have to hire some more people because this is one of the smartest...
David Spark: I've already started doing...
Susan Bratton: You already hired what?
David Spark: Well so for example, so I'm hopefully doing this more and I'm trying to bring in more talent, so yes I have been hiring talent. So for example...
Susan Bratton: I bet you have.
David Spark: I've got one client, I don't want to tease it too much, but they had a big partnership with a major sports industry, whatever. Huge. Huge. And I know nothing about sports. I mean as little as possible could be. I don't know...
Susan Bratton: I'm with you.
David Spark: But it just so happens I have a very good friend who's been a sports reporter, radio reporter for 15 years. This guy knows it backwards and forwards. I go, "Boom." I go, "I can take this client, I can take this project. You're going to be my guy on camera. You're going to handle it." Now he doesn't necessarily have the experience yet, so what I'm going to do is for the first two events we're going to go out as a two man crew, and then soon it's going to, he's going to take it by himself, or I may send a producer out with him. I may do two man things or one-man things. You know, again, it all depends. But that's the idea. So hopefully, you know, if you're someone out there listening that's in the sports industry, I've got that talent too, that just came on. So it's all about finding people who have that expertise, who have the knowledge, and also have the relationships in the industry. I mean a lot of time people are taking advantage, I've got tons and tons of relationships in the tech industry are trying to take advantage of that as much as possible.
Susan Bratton: Excellent! Well listen, thanks so much for coming on the show today. I think this was a really good episode with a lot of really fresh ideas. So I'm really glad. It's always been a pleasure to know you and to see you at all the conferences, and to get a more insight into how you're working this new angle that I think is really brilliant. So David Spark, thank you so much for coming on DishyMix today.
David Spark: Susan, I can't speak any more highly for yourself as well. I have interviewed you too...
Susan Bratton: I know.
David Spark: and I hope you will link to the interviews that you and I have done. And the things is I am so amazingly impressed, and I use you as a model when I talk about, you know, create your own media network. You are the model who has done it, so I know this is, you know, I have what Jerry Lewis used to do, you know, with all his guests and always kiss each other's asses. But, but I am being honest, honest about this - I truly am completely and utterly impressed with what you have done as well. So...
Susan Bratton: Thank you love.
David Spark: kudos to you right back.
Susan Bratton: Kudos back. Back and forth, back and forth in a never-ending love spiral with David Spark. I'm your host, Susan Bratton. I hope you've gotten some great ideas out of this episode, and I look forward to connecting with you next week. Have a great day. Bye-bye.