Marketing and Copy Writing for Successful Advertising with Jason McClain and Craig Eubanks
Coaching the Life Coach
Robert Harrison

Episode 5 - Marketing and Copy Writing for Successful Advertising with Jason McClain and Craig Eubanks

Jason Interviews Craig Eubanks, the founder of Tenacious Marketing on tangible aspects of marketing for any business including writing good copy, based on the benefits to the reader, listener or prospect, and the essential components of effective marketing copy. In addition, you will learn how to measuring your marketing effectiveness so you can determine its ROI [return on investment] Marketing Measurability. Learn which avenues for advertising work and which do not, and how to know so you can make the most for your marketing dollars. Finally, learn smart professionals work on their business not in their business so you can eventually gain the financial freedom you desire.



Marketing and Copy Writing for Successful Advertising with Craig Eubanks, Marketing Expert and Founder of Tenacious Marketing

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Jason McClain:  Welcome to ‘Coaching the Life Coach - Strategies to Grow Your Transformational Practice’.  I'm your host Jason McClain.

Today on the show we are talking about marketing and working on your business not in it.

Craig Eubanks:  Most business owners, especially small business owners feel like advertising doesn't work.  They are frustrated because they have put in the same boring business card ads and they have gotten the same results that everybody else with a boring business card ad has gotten.

Craig Eubanks:  A woman I coached recently put out a press release, which is one of the things they teach you how to do.  It's a very inexpensive way to get media attention that you could never afford to buy and the media is credentialing you.

So her business exploded from that.  Then she came to me and said, “You know, last year I spent $25,000 on advertising.  And I didn't get anywhere near this kind of result.”

Craig Eubanks:  You could be the best in the world at whatever that is, but if the outside world doesn't know about you, if people don't know that you can solve their problems because you are the most amazing coach on the planet, or because you are an extremely competent hypnotist or because you are an attorney that really cares, then you won't have any business.

Jason McClain:  My guest is Craig Eubanks with Tenacious Marketing.  Welcome Craig.

Craig Eubanks:  Hi Jason.  I want to say thanks for having me on the show.  I am really looking forward to this.

Jason McClain:  It's actually my pleasure Craig.  One of the reasons that I am excited about having you on is that this will be one of the most tangible nuts and bolts shows that we have had so far.  So I am really excited to have you.

Craig is known for teaching his clients so they can become self-reliant, unless, of course it's more beneficial for them to work on their business, not in the business, which is one of the things that we will be talking about.  He is also known for his approachability and his no-nonsense communication.

Today on the show, we will be talking about copywriting, marketing measurability as well as how to work on your business and not in your business.  For each of those subjects, we will go into what they are, why they are important or literally, why you should care.  How to do them, nuts and bolts, perhaps even exercises or practices, and what it makes possible in your business and your life if you take that on.

So Craig, first I just want to ask you a bit about copywriting because I am assuming that you don't mean through the patent and trademark office.  So, when you see copywriting about what are you speaking?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, actually when I say copywriting, a lot of times I find people say, “Oh, you work in the patent office.”  Just to be clear about it, what I am talking about is advertising copy, marketing copy, sales materials, anything that is written or even in the case of audio or if you were going to do an infomercial, you want to write it out first.  You want to plan out what you're going to say.

It's really one of the most important things in advertising and marketing.  It is very much overlooked.  The larger corporations tend to want us to think of everything in terms of brand building.  That's the big thing in the advertising world these days.  But a small business entrepreneur cannot afford to try and brand build in that fashion.  They will go broke.

Jason McClain:  Sure, or buy and sell television commercials to titillate people, right?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah.

Jason McClain:  So when you say copywriting you are actually talking about the text that we read that typically.  Why is that important?  Why is it important for us to learn about copywriting here today?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, the big reason is, and what most people don't understand is, people that are looking to buy the benefit that your service offers - and it is really key that I use the word ‘benefit’ and not the word ‘features’ - they are looking for an answer to a problem or a solution that you offer.  In other words, you offer that solution.

They want information.  So people want to read.  Or if you do an audio version of the same written content, they want to listen.  Or if you do a video version, which is becoming more popular on the Internet now, making small video infomercial sort of things, they want to learn from that.

It would be like if you had a salesman, you wouldn't take a salesman and say, “Listen, you can only talk for 2 1/2 minutes.  After that, you have to shut up.”

Jason McClain:  [laughs] Right!  Right, I wasn't doing that with you there!  Is there something else you would like to say about that?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, so if you had a company with a salesman, you would want them to do everything possible to state everything about the particular product or service, the benefits available.  And you want to speak to the logical mind too, which is the feature set if people use that as their decision process.  You also want to counter any objections they might have and think of these ahead of time, and then give them an opportunity to ask questions.

You can't really ask the questions in written copy.  But if you have current clients, you can find out what their questions were and it you can answer those in the copy. 

So people will read all this.  It has been shown, time and time again that long form sales copy outpulls or outsells at least 33% historically.

Jason McClain:  Outsells 33% compared to what?  Compared to?

Craig Eubanks:  What I like to call the ‘boring business card advertisement’.  So, for instance, if you look in the Yellow Pages, some 99 or 98% of the ads look like they're some variation of a business card. 

Maybe it's a little bit more money.  It says the name of the business.  There is a big photo that has nothing to do with anything in the business.  Under it, it might say ‘free estimates’ if it is a plumber.  Down in a corner somewhere is buried a phone number and a website.  That's it.

If you were to go through and block out all the business names, you would find all those ads say almost exactly the same thing.

Jason McClain:  And so people end up thinking that the most important thing is to have a bunch of ‘A’s in the beginning of the name, right?  Quadruple A plumbing, or something. [Laughs]

Craig Eubanks:  Exactly.  Or, what's worse is that you end up competing on price.  Then when you become is a commodity.  You are a pack of gum at the dime store.  Oh, Wrigley’s is cheaper than Dentyne today so that's what I'm going to buy.

The last thing you want is to have somebody come to you and say, “The only distinction I have to decide to use your service versus someone else's is that you are cheaper”.

Jason McClain:  Or you have spent more on your ad.  I've seen some people go, “Oh, this ad is big and it’s colorful.  They must be successful.  They must be good!”

Craig Eubanks:  Yes.  What that really means is that the ad rep was really good.

Jason McClain:  [laughs] That's right.

Craig Eubanks:  And they convince them that, yes, bigger, and in color is going to get you more people in your door.  Or worse, the newspaper people will tell you that you have to be in there at least 21 days in a row, because people have to see your ad 21 times before they will take action.

Jason McClain:  Right.

Craig Eubanks:  That's complete nonsense.  If you write a good ad you will get a massive response from it right away.  That will eventually lead into our next topic, which is measurability.

Jason McClain:  Well, so let me ask you, what would you consider - you talked about some of the components that are necessary in good copy.  Is there anything else you would like to say about how to write good copy?  What specifically needs to be in there?  What points do you need to hit?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, the absolute, number one most important thing to get your ad even noticed and definitely to get people to read more is the headline.  The headline has 80 to 80% of the impact on whether somebody decides, “I want to read this” or “I don't want to read this”.

Also, when you have a headline, let's say you are newspaper, you look more like the news than you do an ad.  We have developed filters, and from studying NLP we both know how this works, and we create a process as we go through a newspaper and something looks like an ad, we go, “Oh, that's an ad.  I'm going to ignore it.”  Whereas if it is a big headline, that looks more like an article and, “Oh, the headline appears to be something I am looking for.  What is that about?  I'm going to read more.”  So definitely start with a headline.

Jason McClain:  Great.  Thanks.  Thank you.  I am curious Craig, if people were to take on writing good copy, or a good copywriter consultant, what does it make possible in their business in terms of increased income, or in terms of just general happiness with what they do?  What does it make possible, allow for or open up?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, the main thing is definitely first of all most business owners, especially small business owners feel like advertising doesn't work.  They are frustrated because they have put in the same boring business card ads and they have gotten the same results that everybody else with a boring business card ad has gotten.  So that's the number one.

The second thing is that you have an ad that you can use over and over again.  If an ad works that's when you're going to run it multiple times.  And you will continue to run it until you start to reach a breakeven point or you start to lose a little bit of money when the ad is out.  Then you retool and do another one.

Jason McClain:  I was recently listening to some of Jay Abrams audio, and he was saying that just by changing the headline on one particular ad that they were running for a business, they increased the results and response to the ad by five times, just by changing the headline.

Craig Eubanks: Absolutely.  That's why the headline is so important.  That's usually referred to as ‘split testing’, which again we can talk about in measurability.

There is a great book, and I recommend it to anybody listening to this.  It is an essential book.  If you don't want to pay a copywriter to do your work for you, you can learn enough to write ads better than your competition fairly easily.  The book is called ‘Tested Advertising’ by John Caples.

The interesting thing in there is that he goes through historically, some of the greatest ads that were ever written.  And he pulls out the headlines that made that ad work and the headlines that didn't.  He puts them in the book side-by-side and says, “Can you pick which one is the better headline?”

If you test yourself and go through it you will often find you pick the wrong one because you are picking it based on personally how you think advertising works.  The market is what you always want to listen to.  You have to pull your ego out of it and all that.

I do this too.  If you ask me a question, “Will this work?”  I'll tell you, “Well, based on my past experience, I feel confident that this will be good.  But the market will tell us.  Let's test.”

Jason McClain:  Well, Craig, before we take a break, is there anything else you would like to say about copywriting, important components or useful aspects that should not be overlooked if they want to increase the return on their advertising?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, absolutely.  First of all, benefit oriented copy always talks to the person - you oriented copy.  Instead of saying ‘I do’, or ‘we do’, say ‘you will get’.  That's really, really important.  The offer - what are you offering these people?  Most of the time when I write copy I start with the offer.  Then I do the headline.  Then I do the body copy.

A call to action - this is, again, if you look at boring business card advertising, they might have a phone number, but it doesn't say, “Call now for X, call now for a free consultation, call now for a free report” or “Go to the website”.  That's less threatening.  When people think about a phone call they think about, “Oh, they're going to be sold.”

So put a step in the middle.  Go to the website.  Download this free information, which will tell you even more about what I do.  Those are really key components.  The Yellow Pages are a great tool that you can go through and look and see that nobody is doing this.  So just by changing your ads to do that and also in the newspapers or anywhere else you find your market - which is another key point.  You have to find a market.  Don't just put ads anywhere.

But if you have these elements, and tell people the benefits, you will be miles ahead of your competition.


Jason McClain:  Great.  Thank you Craig.  Very clear.  We are going to take a short break to support our sponsors.  I'm your host Jason McClain, your guide in the 21st century marketplace.  I'm here with Craig Eubanks.  We are talking about marketing and copywriting.




Jason McClain:  Welcome back.  I'm your host Jason McClain on ‘Coaching the Life Coach’.  We are here with Craig Eubanks, from Tenacious Marketing.

Before the break we were talking about copywriting.  Now we are going to move into marketing measurability.

So Craig, my question to you is when you talked about marketing measurability, what specifically do you mean?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, here's the key thing.  When I have people come to me, and say, “Advertising doesn't work.”  I'll go, “OK, great.  How didn't it work?  Show me your numbers.  What are the numbers?”  They don't have any.  They go, “Well, I paid $250 for an ad and nothing happened.”

Well, how did nothing happen?  What was the audience to which this went out?  Was it the right market?  Did you get any calls at all?  Did you have a website?  Did you check to see if the amount of unique visits went up that day?

Ideally there should have been a special web URL that told you if anybody came from that particular ad.  So then you would know exactly what happened and if there is any business that you got from that at all, if money came in.

People don't know these numbers so they don't know how their advertising works or doesn't work.

Jason McClain:  So they can spend hundreds or thousands of dollars or, God forbid, tens of thousands of dollars, and not even know if it actually got any kind of stimulated response?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, exactly.  In fact, I think, if you haven't mentioned it already, one of my niche areas in which I work is in the hypnosis realm. A woman I coached recently put out a press release, which is one of the things they teach you how to do.  It's a very inexpensive way to get media attention that you could never afford to buy and the media is credentialing you.

So her business exploded from that.  Then she came to me and said, “You know, last year I spent $25,000 on advertising.  And I didn't get anywhere near this kind of result.”  But she also hadn't measured any of it.  All that she knew is that she had spent the money and didn't get any results from it.

Jason McClain:  One of the painful learning experiences I had in my own business was that I took a quarter page ad out in ‘What Is Enlightenment’ magazine, which is a wonderful magazine specifically designed for people who would be very interested in the particular kind of work that I do.

Now, fortunately, I did know how to measure it.  I created a landing page, and that was a page that they went to.  So I knew as I tracked my referral hits anybody who went to my site from that ad.

The painful part of it was that I had gotten twice as much response from a simple Google Adwords ad, which cost me $12 a month.  I paid $1000 for two placements in this magazine that got about 10 clicks on my site.  Fortunately I was able to measure that and go, “Great, I will never do that again!”  You know!

I changed the copy on each of them and offered a free report and did all the things that Jay Abrams talks about - tweaking, and Dan Kennedy talks about tweaking.  Yeah, it was an interesting lesson in measurability.  The fortunate thing is, once you start to measure it, you can rapidly change your approach.

Craig Eubanks:  That is exactly the case.  Now you can tell people exactly the numbers why.  Well, I spent this amount of money on this.  I tracked the hits I got.  I tracked the business I got.  You even did split testing, which is another form of measurability that should be done.  Then you can compare that against the Google ad, which you can measure by the day, by the year, by the month.  You knew exactly what revenue you got from that.

So it was easy for you to make a decision.  Not all your advertising is going to work right away.  That's why you test.  But what you want to do is minimize the amount of money that you spend that is ineffective as fast as possible.  You want to find out what works and then use that repeatedly until it stops working.

Jason McClain:  I'll tell you my experience was actually an incredibly funny way to have the ad rep leave me alone to, because I asked her, “Well, what do you think about these numbers versus these numbers?  What would you do?  Would you buy advertising with your magazine again?” [Laughs]  She left me alone pretty rapidly after that.

Craig Eubanks:  Well that just goes to show you also that most advertising reps don't have your best interests in mind.  You have to realize, they may act nice to you, but they are there to sell advertising.  That's why they tell you to buy 21 copies of your ad and run it before anyone will knock on your door, which is ridiculous.

Also when you know your numbers, you can beat them down on price.  All advertising is flexibly priced.  So if you know your numbers, you can say, “I can only afford to pay this much for lead because I know exactly what my sequence is here.  You can take it or leave it.”  Most of the time they will take it because they have got to fill space.

Jason McClain:  Very interesting.  Very interesting.  So, we have talked around it a little bit, but what are some specific ways that people can measure the response to their marketing?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, these days of the Internet, it's easy to create a unique Web URL for any ad that you put out.  You can create one for the ad in the phone book.  If you're in multiple phonebooks, you can create separate URLs for those.  You can track the amount of traffic over time.

Also, with your Internet site, if you have an integrated shopping cart system that has ad tracking, you can actually track the clicks, the leads and the sales that you get from every ad.  I'm not going to go into any great detail about that, because that could be easily an hour talk.  But there are at least two shopping cart systems that are affordable for entrepreneur that have this kind of stuff built into it.  You should definitely use it.

So what if you're not big on the Internet, and you don't use that kind of stuff?  Well, pay attention to the ads.  I like to reference people.  There is an article on my blog known as, which is about looking in Parade magazine, and how you can get $843,000 worth of marketing education every week by looking in Parade magazine.

Why that number?  Well, because that's what a full page in Parade costs.  Nutrisystem is in there every week.  They are testing ads.  They run a different ad every week.  Each one is keyed.  Look down at the bottom.  There is a web link.  It says, “If you call this number, ask for department 3YJ” or something. 

Well that ‘3YJ’ is keyed to that ad.  So when people call up, they say, “Hi, I'd like department 3YJ”.  They say, “Hold on a second”, and they put their hand over the phone and they go, “Oh, hi.”  Right?  So they write that down because that's how they measure where all that is coming from.

Jason McClain: Got you.  So actually have some kind of code in the ad or a landing page on your website that tells you where it came from, so you can measure how many leads you achieved through that particular venue.  Is that a good way to sum it up?

Craig Eubanks:  Yes, exactly.  You need to know how many leads, and if it's on the Internet, how many clicks and then how many of those become prospects and then how many of those prospects become clients or customers.  Out of that, if you sell multiple products, you want to know what the lifetime value, on average of one of those clients or customers is.

Jason McClain:  OK, perfect Craig.  Is there anything else you would like to say about marketing measurability?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, again, I would like to reference the book I mentioned earlier, ‘Tested Advertising’.  That's a classic.  It was written in the 30s, but if you go through and read that, you will see how marketing is tested and advertised and why it is important.  You can see the difference.  

A single headline can make a 400% difference in an ad.  So you should be tracking all these things, and he does a great job of that.  I think, again, it's a great book for any entrepreneur to read.

Jason McClain:  And so Craig, my last question is, of course, if people begin to measure their marketing, if they begin to track the return on their investment, what does that open up and allow for, other than the obvious, which is that they can have their dollars be of greater value to their business?  But what does it open up for, allow for or make possible?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, here's the key goal.  This will probably lead into our last topic too, but the thing you want to develop as an entrepreneur, it doesn't matter what business you're in, you're a business owner.  You want to develop systems that are replicable and measurable.

By measuring you can find out what's working and what's not working and create that into an entire system, which is part of your marketing and sales funnel.  The reason you want to do that is because you can hand that off to someone else once it's working and only do those things that are most important to your business.  So this allows you to concentrate on doing the things that make your business the most money.

If you're not tracking your advertising, you have no idea.  You are just willy-nilly, putting in ads here and there, or creating flyers, or brochures or business cards. 

And by the way, you should track everything.  That includes your business card.  And have a way to do that.  You'll know exactly where your leads are coming from, because there is that old 80/20 rule.  20% of your business will be coming from one source.  When you begin to measure that you can figure out what that is.  And you want to focus your efforts on that and create a system around it.


Jason McClain:  Fantastic.  So not only can people enjoy greater prosperity, but also they can work less hard, and have more free time.  Wonderful.  Wonderful.

So, we are going to take a short break to support our sponsors.  I'm your host Jason McClain here talking with Craig Eubanks from Tenacious Marketing.




Jason McClain:  Welcome back.  I'm your host Jason McClain.  I'm here with Craig Eubanks.  If you're looking to e-mail me you can contact me at [email protected].

Before the break we were talking about marketing measurability.  Now Craig I would like to talk to you about this concept of working on your business rather than in your business.  Can you tell me what you mean by that?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah Jason.  It happens that this is a typical, I would almost call it affliction that business owners have.  They have trained themselves, and they identify as ‘I am a coach’ or ‘I am a hypnotist’ or ‘I am a restaurant owner’ or ‘I am a lawyer’.  They focus all their time on being that thing.  So they are actually working in the business.

Doing that, and you could be the best in the world at whatever that is, but if the outside world doesn't know about you, if people don't know that you can solve their problems because you are the most amazing coach on the planet, or because you are an extremely competent hypnotist or because you are an attorney that really cares, then you won't have any business.

So you need to step back or, I know Petey would refer to it as a Meta level and focus on the business itself.  That means doing good marketing and dedicating time to that purpose.

Jason McClain:  All right, let me ask you one question that I meant to us before.  NLP - many of our listeners may not know what that is.  So could you say a little bit about NLP known as neurolinguistic programming?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, neurolinguistic programming probably can best be described as understanding human communications and be able to model how and why humans do what they do.  It obviously encompasses a lot more than that, but at its core, those two things are probably really easily graspable as to what NLP is all about.

Jason McClain:  Great, thanks Craig.  And so back to working on your business rather than in your business.  I know one of the messages I've seen is that people have this growing list of certifications in their signature block, which I assume that they think is credibility.  People say, “Oh, wonderful, they've got all these certifications and all this training.”

I know from personal experience that you could have all the training in the world and still be incompetent and you can have very little training but be incredibly good because of your own raw computing power is the way I like to think about it.  It's how effective you are just in general, how competent you are in general.  But it's also how much you have practiced, and how much you have really understood the underlying principles.

And yet, this idea of credibility - what do you think builds credibility with people in terms of their marketing?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, there are actually two things there.  First I want to talk about that.  It's a common trap when people aren't doing well in their business to think the problem is, “Oh, I don't have enough training.”  And somehow the outside world knows that you need that next certification.

Jason McClain:  [laughs] Right.

Craig Eubanks:  That’s definitely not true.  They don't know.  They only know what you tell them.  This gets into a concept that is really important in the marketing world called positioning.  If you don't position yourself as an expert then nobody will think that you are an expert.

So you have to take the steps to put yourself out there as an expert.

Jason McClain:  I'll bet if you don't do that you will again become some sort of commodity.  “Oh well, they are just a ___, and there are 10 other ____” whether it's a hypnotherapist or like you said, a lawyer that you know.

Craig Eubanks:  Yes, exactly.  Or, as somebody pointed recently, there is never a line to talk to the guru at the bottom of the mountain.  Right?

Jason McClain:  [laughs] Right.  I haven't found one, no.

Craig Eubanks:  And so, the other part of the credentialing thing is, if you don't believe in yourself because you don't have that confidence that will come across as well.  So at some point you have to realize that you know way more than anybody out there.  And that all that that person cares about, and I'm going to use the case of people in the hypnosis world - let's say for example, stop smoking.

Somebody out there wants to stop smoking.  They have tried the patch.  They have tried all the things that doctors recommended.  Hypnotists are noted for being able to work with people and stop smoking in one or two sessions. 

That's all that person cares about.  They don't care about the gobbledygook of letters behind the name.  They don't care about 14 certificates on the wall.  All they care about is “Can you get me to stop smoking.  If you do, I will love you the rest of my life.”

Jason McClain:  All they really care about are the results, definitely.

Craig Eubanks:  Yes.  All they care about is the results, the benefit that they can get.  Can you solve my problem?

Jason McClain:  And so when you talk about working on your business and not in your business, how can people begin to do that?  What are some tips, some tricks, some tools or some practices that they should take on in order to achieve that?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, I would say the first practice is if they are not setting aside time every week - and when I say, setting aside time I mean undisturbed time.  You turn the phones off.  You turn your e-mail off.  If you have a pager or a beeper you turn it off.  You lock the doors.

Spend at least four hours a week just focusing on how I am going to market my business.  How am I going to generate leads?  How am I going to get people to come and find me and at least inquire if I am the right person to solve their problem?  Most business owners don't take the time to do that.  It's just kind of a haphazard thing that's done as an afterthought at the end of the day with all the other busy work that they manage to find for themselves.

But the fact is, if you don't have a steady flow of business, your number one solution to that problem is good marketing.

Jason McClain:  And so when people begin to work on their business rather than in their business, and I'm sure it is to varying degrees, greater and greater and greater degrees I hope, what does that make possible, what does it open up for, what does it allow in their life, in their relationships, in their business and in every context that is important to them?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, if you learn how to generate business, instantly your stress level is going to go down, because people are generally worrying how to get clients.  That is the biggest question.  How can I get clients?  How can I get clients? 

And, not only that, once you start getting a regular stream of clients, and you have a database of people who are very happy with you, those are the easiest people to get more money from and more business.  Because you have done something good and wonderful for them, they are the ones when you come up with the next product, the next seminar, whatever it may be, nor the most likely to come and do business with you again. 

In marketing terms, this is referred to as backend.  That is the people you want to contact when you have something new, because they will be the most likely ones to buy from you.

Jason McClain:  Perfect.  Thanks Craig.  Is there anything else you would like to say about working on your business rather than in your business?

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, you heard me use the word entrepreneur a lot.  It doesn't matter what sort of business you are, if you are listening to this, you should consider yourself as an entrepreneur and take on that mindset.  An entrepreneur can market or work with any sort of business.  It doesn't really matter.  The basic principles are the same.

If you tend to identify yourself as, “I am a coach”, then what happens is you end up working as a coach and doing coach things and getting certifications and that kind of thing, and not working on your business.

So step back a little bit.  Consider yourself as an entrepreneur.  Start reading really good business books and thinking as a businessperson.

Jason McClain:  It's funny that you mention that.  Actually, I ask people if they want to have a practice or if they want to have a business?  [Laughs] Do you want to practice that or do you actually want to make money?  Yeah.

Craig Eubanks:  Yeah, exactly.  If I can get one point across I think it would be that today.  It sometimes the hardest point to get across, because when we go into something that we are passionate about we tend to identify that and create that as our identity.  That's what we tend to want to do.

A common example is a restaurant owner.  They will spend so much time decorating the restaurant and signs and menus and what the food is and all that.  They spend all their money on that and they throw open the doors and they sit in the restaurant and they wait for people to come in.  Well, that's not going to get it.  They've got to do something to get people in to find out how really wonderful that restaurant is.

Jason McClain:  Yes, yes.  So Craig, what services do you offer?  How can people reach you?  Where are you geographically?  All those things.

So, what services do you offer?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, obviously I do offer copywriting services.  And I offer coaching and consulting in the marketing realm.  I do direct response marketing, in which the response part is the key part.  This means we go direct to the audience we are trying to reach and we measure the response, which goes to the measurability.

My copywriting would be called emotional based response copywriting.  You speak to the emotions, because everybody, at the core makes their decision by emotions.

My coaching I do by the hour or by the day.  And the copywriting is based on the job and what's needed to be done.  I do both web-based copywriting and direct mail advertising, Yellow Pages, all that kind of stuff.

People can reach me through my blog,  Eventually I will have a site for my copywriting services, which is separate.  It will probably be something like  I am based out of San Francisco, but I do coaching on the phone, as well as in person.  So it doesn't really matter where somebody is located.

In the future I will probably offer coaching groups and something like that on a monthly basis where people will agree to a six-month time period because as you know as a coach, it takes a little while to build up momentum to get the results.

Jason McClain:  It takes a little while, yes.  Well thanks for joining us and for sharing your wisdom with us. 

I just have one more question for you, Craig.  Something that you could leave our listeners with, something, maybe it is a story about some results that you produced, or maybe it's what it would make possible in their life.  What's one thing that you would like to leave our listeners with?

Craig Eubanks:  Well, I actually like to speak to both those points.  What are the results that are possible, especially with good copywriting?  I had a client recently who had a product.  It was a pre-released product.  The thing wasn't even available yet.

It was kind of a test as to how it would sell, but also to get the money to do the full rollout.  They had a very significant list, because they had collected a list of interested prospects.  I wrote a sales letter plus some e-mail that went along with it.  That was basically it.  And in 10 days there were over $125,000 worth of sales of pre-released product.

So copywriting can be very powerful in that way when it is done correctly.  There was a good message to market to match there.  The thought I would like to leave to people is that particular sales letter is being renewed again now the product was released and it is still being very successful. 

That has become an automatic system.  When you build systems in your business, you find out which ones work through measuring.  And you have good advertising and copywriting.  You're working on your business, building your marketing systems.  You get to a point where it becomes like a faucet.

I don't know if you can imagine this, but when you need business you just turn the faucet on or turn it up a little and you get a bigger flow.  When your calendar gets filled, you just scale it back.  Turn the faucet off.  If you want to go on vacation, you just turn it completely off.  Take some time off, and when you come back you turn the faucet on.

And that's really the end goal of good marketing.  The great thing about it is that it becomes a lot of fun to do that.

Jason McClain:  Great, Craig.  Thanks again for joining us and sharing your wisdom with us.

Craig Eubanks:  Well thank you, Jason.  I really enjoyed it.  I had a great time and I hope everybody else there takes a little nugget with them and mainly that you take action with something that you heard even if it's just to buy the book I recommended and start reading it.


Jason McClain:  Great.  Thanks again.  Again, Craig Eubanks with Tenacious Marketing, who you can currently reach through  Again, I'm Jason McClain, your host and your guide in the 21st century marketplace.  Thank you for joining us this week.  That brings us to the end of our show.

For text and transcripts of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media Network, please visit our website at  And again, this is your host Jason McClain.  And I can be reached through


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