Episode 20 - Reclaiming Sex and Passion in a Marriage with Heather and Robert, Two Recent Students of Expanded Orgasm, Part One of a Two Part Series

Reclaiming Sex and Passion in a Marriage: Dr. Patti Talks to Heather and Robert, Two Recent Students of Expanded Orgasm, Part One of a Two Part Series

Announcer:  This program is intended for mature audiences only.

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This is part one of a two part program.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to this 2 part series about an everyday couple who investigates expanding their orgasms as a path to putting passion back into their marriage.  This is part one, where you will learn how this couple achieves a marital turn-around in a seemingly stalemated sex life, in a remarkably short period of time, and with a truly amazing outcome.  Our couple will share their innermost secrets, their challenges, and their lovemaking triumphs as they tell us exactly how they brought their passion and sexual pleasure to new heights. 

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Heather: Really loved it – Robert would spend an hour rubbing lotion all around on my pussy, my legs, my thighs, my ass.  And he was so happy to do that.  I could really tell he was happy to do it.  And I could just relax into that, and I started to feel things – then it went from there.

Heather: Can I just share that moment?  I want to share that moment and then go back to what Robert was saying.  I can remember being in the room when we were watching this man give this woman an extended orgasm.  And I could feel her orgasm in my body – I was totally turned on, and my pussy was like going [wah-wah-wah], you know?  Like moving back and forth and sucking in and out, and I was like WHOA!  It just blew me away to see go for half an hour in this state, in this peak state of orgasmic bliss, and then I started to think, ‘wow, I really want to have that.’  And I felt like I was really ready for it.  So I loved being able to see people actually do it.  And I wish – my wish for the world is that everyone could actually experience that and be in the room with that, because then they would realize it’s possible for them too.  That was a breakthrough.

Heather: Even more profound, so the combination of being excited to be stroked, to be stroked very ably, to then have both internal and external kind of simultaneous stroking, where the top fingers rubbing my clitoris was almost arcing the energy right down through my body down to the finger or fingers that he had inside me, stroking the inside of my vagina.  And I could feel that most amazing thing.  And then, having my clitoris get that extra level of engorgement, and then feeling like I had this – almost like what women are calling female ejaculation or “amrita.”  I’m not gushing, but I’m starting to feel three or four or five times during an orgasmic session, that I’ll have this kind of wash of feeling, and this kind of even more delicious orgasmic sensation.  And that’s kind of where we are now, expanding into that.  And, you know, relaxing into that.  Not tightening up, but letting go.  And that’s about where we are now, wouldn’t you say?

Robert: Yeah.  And it’s a good place to be. 

[laughter]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the Expanded Lovemaking show.  I’m your host, Dr. Patti Taylor.  And I teach people to give and receive way more pleasure than they ever dreamed possible.  Today on our show, we are talking to people just like you, who at one point in their life didn’t know that they could receive way more pleasure than they ever dreamed possible.  I know for me there was that one point just before I found out about expanded orgasmic pleasure.  So today, we are so lucky to have with us as guests, Heather and Robert, who only a year ago had no idea what lay before them.  They, too, did not know what great adventure lay before them in discovering the path to greater orgasmic pleasure.

So I’d like to introduce them to you, and let them tell their powerful story.  So I’d like to welcome them now.  Welcome, Heather and Robert.

Heather: Hi, Patti, thanks for having us.

Robert: Hi, Patti.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Hi.  So, let’s just jump right in and find out how you got involved on this path.

Heather: Well, I’ll start.  We got involved because we were having a really rocky marriage, and it was essentially that my husband was very unhappy with me because we weren’t really having sex.  We were having sex, but it wasn’t intimate, it wasn’t connected, it was perfunctory.  And he was extremely discouraged.  And we were at the point where he was so discouraged that he was considering leaving me – we were considering getting a divorce.  And I decided to just step up and try to learn new sexual skills because I loved him so much, and it was the thing that he desired, and I wanted to try to give him what he desired.  Not realizing that ultimately, it was going to make me ecstatically happy, too. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: So let me just get this clear, here.  You were thinking of getting a divorce – was it primarily because you weren’t being fulfilled sexually, that you were thinking of getting a divorce?

Heather: Well, no, I didn’t even know that I wasn’t being fulfilled sexually, that wasn’t my issue.  I wasn’t saying I want a divorce because I’m not fulfilled sexually – that was Robert’s issue, a big part of it.  But mostly it was that we were just completely disconnected.  There just wasn’t a lot of intimacy, a lot of connection in our relationship.  It felt like we were best friends living together, not lovers, not married people anymore.

Dr. Patti Taylor: And what were you saying to yourself at that time?  What was your internal dialogue, let’s say right before you’d go to divorce?  So our listeners might recognize that in themselves.

Heather: Well, I was angry at my husband because I didn’t think that he was doing anything to support the marriage, and I was just really mad at him because he was incredibly checked out.  And he was very demanding – he was saying “I need more sex!”  And I thought, “Screw you!  You don’t deserve any sex!  You’re not doing what you should do!”  And so, we were just at massive loggerheads.  And I should probably let Robert speak a little bit to that, too.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, one more question, and to what extent were you thinking, “I wonder what I can be doing about this?”  Since we’re pre-enlightenment here?

Heather: Well, I knew that he wanted more sex.  And I knew that I wanted more intimacy.  And I knew that ultimately and fundamentally, I loved him and adored him, and that I couldn’t do better in a husband, and that we’d had this massive chasm between us that I wanted to find reparation for.  And so I said, I have nothing to lose except everything.  I have my marriage to lose, we have a child, I have this man I’ve invested 10, 11, 12 years of connection in, and so it was with that that my journey around understanding my own sensuality began.  It was through his demanding that I should either figure it out, or we should not stay together.  And when my back was up against the wall, I decided to see where sensuality could go for me.

Dr. Patti Taylor: And you were completely puzzled at that point.

Heather: Well, it didn’t make any sense to me, because I never really thought sex was worth getting all that riled up about.  It was just because I never had very good sex, even when we were married.  It was ok, but it wasn’t great.  It was really both of us needing to learn more skills.  But it was definitely me coming from really far behind.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Ok, well, I really thank you for that honesty, and I’m guessing a lot of listeners can relate to that.  Well, let’s hear from Robert.  Robert?  Robert’s smiling.

Robert: So from my perspective, I knew I totally adored Heather, and we had a great relationship, we worked well together, we had a nice home, a child, both had good jobs, but we weren’t really tightly intimately connected.  We weren’t having great sex, we weren’t crazy about each other in that way that I thought we should be.  Like I had this idea that if you’re married you should be totally crazy about your wife, and you should be having hot sex all the time, and I was very disappointed that it wasn’t that way.  And I remember, at some point I said well, I’ll just not worry about it, maybe three to four years into the marriage, it happened rather early, like go through that honeymoon period, and then after a couple of years the sex started to turn into this kind of perfunctory, once every two weeks kind of a thing.  And I wasn’t happy about it, and I said well, I’ll just not worry about it.  Maybe I’ll just grow up, and maybe sex isn’t supposed to be important anyway, and I’ll just muddle though.  And then after about 10 years of that, I thought, no.  I love sex, I’m miserable not having sex, and then that’s when I started to become demanding.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right.  So at what point did you – did you ever wonder that there was something that you could be doing, did you – where could you possibly go to sort things out for yourself, in terms of what part of this was you, what part of this was Heather?  Where was your thinking going when it seemed so stalemated?

Robert: Right, so you wonder about all kinds of things.  Like at one point, I had convinced myself that she was a lesbian, and that she wasn’t interested in me, she didn’t want to have sex with me, and it wasn’t really her problem.  We were married, and we were going to stay together because we had a child, but I would never have sex with her – she never really enjoyed having sex with me, so I thought maybe that was it.  That was kind of my lot in life.  And there really isn’t a whole lot I can do about it. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Did you try things, so that you could at least satisfy yourself, that you’d at least studied up on all the new techniques before you kind of gave up?

Robert: Yes.  So I got a couple of books, and I always, there were a lot of basic things that I think most guys know – oral sex, I always thought I was pretty good at oral sex, but Heather never liked it.  She never liked oral sex.  She didn’t like me to lick her pussy, which I always thought I was really good at!  I’d never gotten any complaints before, and that was very, very confounding to me, that she didn’t like it and I couldn’t understand why.  I’d always thought that I was a pretty good lover, in that I could hold off my orgasm for quite a while, but she didn’t like that.  She actually wanted me to cum quickly.  She didn’t want it to go on and on.  She couldn’t understand why I wanted it to go on more than five minutes.  So I thought, and I’d read things in books that I’d never came across anything that I didn’t know how to do already.  In all the books that I’d gotten ahold of.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I’m guessing that could be very confusing and frustrating.  Ok, so we’re going to take a break to hear from our sponsors, and we will be right back.  We are talking to Heather and Robert, who are so kindly sharing a very powerful story about learning of expanded orgasms, so please stay with us – we’ll be right back.

Announcer: Listen to A Taste of Sex, Life in an Orgasm-Based Community – a weekly online audio program where orgasmic innovators share the intricacies of their practice.  On personallifemedia.com

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Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re back, and we’re talking to Heather and Robert about their journey to learning about expanded orgasm.  So, we’re back and we want to find out - what changed?  We found out now about what devolved, as we should say – you were in a marriage, you were best friends, what happened to turn things around?

Heather: We decided that we would get some professional help.  If our sex wasn’t good, we’d go get some teaching, some learning from people who knew what they were doing.  And maybe there was something that we could learn.  And Robert and I did that, and I can remember being really freaked out about having to go to these classes, whether they were tantra classes or sexuality classes, you’d be in a room with people, sometimes you even had clothing optional, and it just freaked me out.  I didn’t really love my body, I wasn’t really comfortable with it, and I wasn’t really comfortable with dealing with the whole discussion around sensuality.  And so even keeping my presence in those classes was – I would have headaches, and I’d usually have some sort of meltdown, or get really upset.  Poor Robert would be just the most patient person with me, because he knew how hard it was for me to be there.  I was there because I knew this is what I needed to learn next.  And we – when we struck upon the idea of expanded orgasm, it seemed like the change that we needed, and the reason that it did – and the other work was great, and helpful for us in reconnecting – but what had happened was that the reason that sex was so difficult for me was that I’d had trauma as a child.  I’d been molested as a child.  And because of that, I thought I had put it behind me, but I hadn’t.  And I had to go through and re-process that, and understand that the whole reason sex was so difficult with Robert was that I couldn’t stay in my body.  I didn’t like my body and I couldn’t stay in it.  I would leave my body when we were having sex.  And so once he understood that that was my problem, and that it wasn’t anything to do with him, or my love, or my like or lust of him, and that it was something that I was wrestling with from my past, then he was there with me, keeping me in the present – keeping me focused.  And doing these sexuality classes was making me feel better about my body.  And we were learning new techniques.  And when we discovered expanded orgasms, that was the thing that I really needed.  That was the pivotal technique that turned me from someone who didn’t like sex into someone who wanted a lot of it, and loved it, and wanted to spend a lot of time doing it.  And so I know we’re probably going to go through the process of what that is, but it was really that experience that changed me. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, thank you.  What was pivotal about it?  Can you recall something about a pivotal moment for you?

Heather: Yes.  When we were going to practice this technique, there were a lot of components to the practice.  We were told to practice only five or 10 minutes a day.  And women were not – when you were receiving, you were supposed to be completely receiving the experience.  And so there was no pressure on time, like it had to be a long time, and there was nothing I had to do but receive it.  And so there was a lot of pressure released for me, and performance anxiety.  The second thing that was important was that I was really right there with Robert – he was next to me, his face wasn’t buried between my legs.  He was in the moment with me.  And that there was as much of an energy exchange as there was a sensual moment.  So there was a lot of intimacy that was created.  The other thing that I liked about it was that he didn’t just kind of start on me, and immediately touch my clitoris, or stick his fingers in me.  He really took his time, getting me to relax, setting the mood, stroking me, putting oil on me, and that let me relax into the opportunity to feel some sensation.  When we started, I literally didn’t feel any sensation.  I didn’t even know I had a pussy.  It was dead.  I could have smacked it and it would have still been asleep.  It was so discouraging, I was so shut down, so closed off from sensation, that I couldn’t tell if he was touching my labia, my clitoris – I just couldn’t tell the difference.  Then I remember one day, after we started practicing for a little while, I got a mirror out, and I said, “Touch me.  I want to see where you’re touching it,” so that I can actually connect what Robert was doing with what I was seeing in the mirror.  And I had like a breakthrough that I could start to feel sensation in different parts, like my inner labia, my outer labia, my clitoris, and I could tell when he was touching different parts.  So it was really partially a process of being completely relaxed, letting him bring sensation into my body, knowing that he really loved it – Robert would spend an hour rubbing lotion all around on my pussy, my legs, my thighs, my ass.  And he was so happy to do that.  I could really tell he was happy to do it.  And I could just relax into that, and I then started to feel things – then it went from there.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So it was a letting go of the trauma, it was recovering sensation, but also it was feeling that Robert was willing to be by your side and also just be patient and loving, and you got that he was really enjoying himself and giving you what you wanted.

Heather: Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: What was it like from your story?  From your point of view?

Robert: Well, I’m actually going to go back to a part where we were seeing a marriage counselor.  So before we discovered the expanded orgasm path, we went to a couple of marriage counselors.  And I remember one of them said, “Well, you’ve been married for 12 years now, you’re not supposed to have great sex anymore.”  And I thought – I was so frustrated at that person, that they were trying to say that your relationship is supposed to be more mature than that, and not like you’re honeymooners anymore.  And I was not willing to accept that.  So, that’s one of the things that set us along this expanded orgasm path, to find out how we could get that passion back in our relationship.  And I remember, I started with some books, and I couldn’t – there were some that we looked at on expanded orgasm, and I think it was Steve and Vera Bodansky’s book actually, was the first one we started with, and I tried to figure out this thing where you were supposed to rub the woman’s clit, and it didn’t work.  I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t working.  And next we saw a video, and the video was pretty good, that helped, that was the next step, but the thing that really was the breakthrough was a class where Heather actually got to see another woman having an expanded orgasm.  She got to feel that it was real, that maybe she could do that, too. 

Heather: Can I just share that moment?  I want to share that moment and then go back to what Robert was saying.  I can remember being in the room when we were watching this man give this woman an extended orgasm.  And I could feel her orgasm in my body – I was totally turned on, and my pussy was like going [wah-wah-wah], you know?  Like moving back and forth and sucking in and out, and I was like WHOA!  It just blew me away to see her go for half an hour in this state, in this peak state of orgasmic bliss, and then I started to think, ‘wow, I really want to have that.’  And I felt like I was really ready for it.  So I loved being able to see people actually do it.  And I wish – my wish for the world is that everyone could actually experience that and be in the room with that, because then they would realize it’s possible for them too.  That was a breakthrough.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So I’m thinking about our listeners, if they can’t actually see it, would you recommend that they see a video?  Of course, I would recommend they see a video, or something to go out and actually get an idea of what’s possible.

Heather: Yes, well, I would read your book, Dr. Patti, because I love your book and I’ve given – you know me, I’ve given away 10 copies, 15 copies of it, I give it for holiday gifts, I swear by your book.  I thought the Steve and Vera Bodansky book was really good because the illustrations are great in that book.  So if you’re looking for visuals and you’re a visual learner, that’s really good.  Your CD is a really good CD because you do a demo – oh, it’s a DVD – you do a demo in your DVD.  Another one that’s really good is the Pleasure Course – is that what it’s called?  Pleasure Course?

Robert: Well, you know, one of the ones we started with was Better Sex Videos.

Heather: By Dr. Mark Schoen – that one’s really good, and that one was the one where you just get to watch couples making love, and couples giving each other genital massage, so even pre-expanded orgasm, you got to learn about how to give good genital massages, and that’s a good kind of on-ramp.

Robert: And that made us very comfortable, for me just to say “I’m just going to give her a massage.”  And that made it easier for you to relax, so that was before expanded orgasm, but it was still an easy step, a baby step.  It was very approachable and very mainstream.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Ok, so just to do a little time check here, how many months into your awakening, shall we say, are we by this point?  Since now you’re going [wah-wah-wah] – that was very juicy, that the way!  I was going [wah-wah-wah] listening to that!  So how many months has it been? 

Heather: Well, I think we started out with the Sinclair Institute genital massage videos.  And we did that for a month or two, and then we heard about expanded orgasm.  And we started trying it ourselves, but we were really – I was very frustrated.  I don’t know, Robert, were you?

Robert: Well, at that point there was a glimmer of hope in my mind.  That things were going to turn around, that we might actually start having good sex again, and that was something that now I was able to massage her pussy, I was touching her pussy, that was a huge step forward for me.

Heather: It was a huge step forward for me, too.  And so I guess it was probably in the last year that we’ve been learning about this.  That was probably three months into it, when we saw the demo.  And then we started practicing for five or 10 minutes every day, every other day, every three days, kind of thing –

Robert: You mean the demo at the class?

Heather: Yeah.  And then we had some breakthroughs, where we could really – I was like, ok, that’s the spot.  You’re on it – I feel it.  And I could feel how that, when he was rubbing my clit at like the one-thirty point, really softly, I could feel my body go into that orgasmic state but not climax out of it but just stay in it.  And when he could hold that spot and keep that stroke, he could keep me in orgasm.  It started out at maybe like a minute, you know, that was big for us, and then it was three minutes, and we just kept going, and there were sometimes when it was really working for me, when he was so tuned into my energy – and he was riding my energy, that I would say let’s keep going, let’s see how far we can go.  And we’d go for 30 or 40 minutes.  But that took about six months, I would say.  Six months of really practicing, getting the minute, and the three minutes, and the five minutes, and the 10 minutes.  I remember the first time we kind of broke 15.  [laughs]  It was a pretty big thing.  And at the same time, you were learning a lot of new ways to move your hands – remember how you used to name all your moves?  You’ve got to share that, Robert!

Robert: [laughs]

Heather: He would name his moves, so he would remember them!  What were they? [giggling]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Hang on for a second, we’re just going to pause for a sponsored break, but hopefully we’re keeping you hanging on the edge of your seats, if you’re still sitting.  I just want to say that we’re going to put up Heather and Robert’s favorite links, so that if you’re interested in following along their particular path, you can take a look at the books and DVDs that they recommend, or anything else.  So we’re just going to pause to hear from our wonderful sponsors.  Please stay with us.

Announcer: Listen to On the Minds of Men, uncensored sex talk with Dr. Lori, a weekly audio program bringing the best in sex therapy to your life, on personallifemedia.com. 

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Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re back, and we’re having a party!  We’re talking to Heather and Robert, who are a lot of fun!  And that’s because they’re people just like you – probably, maybe not, I don’t know.  Most people haven’t always known about expanded orgasm, I know I didn’t at one point in my life, but I found out about it and so did they.  And they have a very powerful and interesting story, and they’re sharing it very wonderfully with us.  So tell me, Robert – what are some of these phrases?

Robert: When this was new to me, I was trying to – one of the things we learned in the class was to constantly stay connected, and that would help Heather learn to feel what I was doing.  So I would tell her, ok, I’m pulling back the hood of your clitoris now, and I’m looking at her pussy, and I see the labia minora, the little lips, and I’m running my fingers up the outside of the little lips.  And so I would describe what I was doing, and then later as a shorthand I’d come up with names for the strokes of what I was doing, and that would help me remember, and then I would tell her what I was doing, and I would monitor how it was working.  Did she need an upstroke or a downstroke or a lighter stroke or a heavier stroke?  And then with that – and this took maybe a month or two of just us experimenting with what was working, what felt really good to her, at what point in time we were able to learn how to, I was able to learn how to feel where she was, was she peaking on her orgasm, and maybe I could giver her a downstroke or two and kind of keep her there on that crest, and then give her some upstrokes to bring her back up again, and between the two of us we learned how to expand that orgasm, and just keep that peak going and going and going and going.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, I’m fascinated by language, and I think that language in the bedroom is really powerful, because the more we can talk about what we want in shorthand – I often use the word “springy,” for example, when I want my partner to meet me in just that way that’s so hot and juicy, like a salsa dancer on the dance floor.  “Springy” is a lot shorter than all of that other stuff I just said.  So would you be willing to – I know this might be a little intimate, but share with us a couple of the names for some of the strokes and what they might represent?

Robert: Well, so there’s a grounding stroke, and this was something that took me a while to learn, in that the grounding isn’t necessarily…you’re just putting more pressure and more intention, you’re just focusing more on bringing her down a little bit.  Because you can’t – it’s a funny thing, I don’t know if other guys would suffer from this, but I think you can’t just keep bringing her up and up and up and up and up and just keep it going up, but at some point it becomes annoying to her.  And then she’s not – then she doesn’t like it anymore, then it just becomes painful, and then she wants to stop.  So you can’t keep doing that.  It took me – I don’t know, a few months to figure that out.  So I had to learn the grounding stroke is where you put more, and it’s literally down, a downward stroke, downward pressure, and using your whole hand – I’m trying to demonstrate and obviously the microphone’s not picking it up. [laughs]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, translation, I would say maybe in just other language, maybe some people heard it that way, everybody hears it differently, but I would just say that sometimes, when a man is doing a woman, or giving her pleasure – there’s so many ways of saying this – he’ll find, or she’ll find, or they’ll find that she can only have so much of that experience before she gets very restless, or doesn’t want any more, and just sort of says stop, and the man’s in mystery, like what do you mean stop?  You were loving it, loving it, loving it, and now you’re telling me to stop.  And what you’re saying is all of a sudden, before she wanted me to take her higher by adding sensation, now I’m going to reverse direction and start taking her in another direction by grounding – giving her grounding sensation, or more pressure in the stroke, by giving her a grounding stroke.  And now I’m sort of going to take her into her body with this mmmm, kind of a grounding stroke, and kind of getting her into her body, and kind of that mmmmm, yummy, kind of hot, sexy, moving grind.  So yummy, and instead of her going stop stop stop, because it’s just too hot and high, she’s sort of out of her mind, now she’s just sort of spreading it through her body, and she’s like “Oh baby,” right?

Robert: That’s exactly.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That’s the translation.  [laughs]

Heather: Definitely.

Dr. Patti Taylor: But see, again, “Ground me, ground me, honey” is a lot faster than what I just said.  Any other great little names?  And I’m big on naming things, because they’re fast.  We call them shorthand.  So any others?

Robert: Well, there’s another one that I would do, which I called a grounding fucking stroke, where instead of just putting my whole hand on top of her pussy and applying pressure, I would tend to slide my finger in, then bring it just inside her entrance to her pussy, and then do that as kind of a downward stroke, and that would put some pressure on the inside, too –

Dr. Patti Taylor: Stop, stop, stop, stop – now, your hand is on the inside of her pussy – is it on her upper wall, or is it on the lower wall of her pussy?

Robert: It was just the one finger that had been on her clit, that had maybe been doing light, small strokes, and now was reaching down around inside in a longer, deeper – this is my grounding fucking stroke. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Oh, right, right.  Well, you know as a woman gets more engorged, her clit gets longer.  So it makes total sense that the grounding fucking stroke is a highly popular stroke, particularly longer into the day, they do get longer.  They change shape.  Good going!  See, this is why we’re doing the “just like you” series, because I know for sure, I’m sure a lot of you have figured it out, but I know the wisdom amongst us all is vast, in what we do want to share.  So, beautiful, beautiful.  Any others?

Robert: I don’t know.  I think I came up with about a dozen of them, and I could go on with it, but one that’s probably like the bread and butter stroke is the light back and forth on the one-thirty spot on the clitoris.  So that’s the most basic one, a nice, short, slow, constant even stroke.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Ok, so now we know that Heather is similar to about 80% of women who apparently like just that plain, simple, one-thirty spot on the clitoris.  Which is about what 80% of women like.  80 to 90%.  When they have experimented with it – not all women realize that, by the way, until they actually lock themselves in their bedroom, light all the candles and flowers and music and try it out – but often that’s where they end up having their favorite spot, so you tend to be right around that 80% mark.  So – ok, so, we’re at the three to six month mark – then what?

Heather: Robert started to try more moves.  He’d gotten the basic moves down.  He had one called the butterfly, and other things.  He was really good, finally, at finding that spot, that one-thirty spot on my clitoris and rubbing that very softly.  And then he was also moving his fingers inside me, and started finding my G-spot, and starting a combination of touching my G-spot and touching my clitoris at the same time.  And that’s when orgasms got even better for me.  And then, after that, he started moving his fingers around on the sides of my vagina, inside, and on the base, the lower wall of my vagina while he was still stroking my clitoris.  And then I noticed, maybe about nine or 10 months into this practice, that I started feeling like I was getting really wet, like there was a moment where there was this amazing pleasure, and then I would feel this release.  And then it would feel like everything just got wetter and juicier.  I also noticed, started to notice, that about 20 to 30 minutes into having him give me an expanded orgasm, that my clitoris would feel like it popped.  I could tell that very moment, that something happened, maybe it was a certain level of engorgement, where it was almost like my clit went “boink!”  And the sensation got even more profound.  So the combination of being excited to be stroked, to be stroked very ably, to then have both internal and external kind of simultaneous stroking, where the top fingers rubbing my clitoris was almost arcing the energy right down through my body down to the finger or fingers that he had inside me, stroking the inside of my vagina.  And I could feel that most amazing thing.  And then, having my clitoris get that extra level of engorgement, and then feeling like I had this – almost like what women are calling female ejaculation or “amrita.”  I’m not gushing, but I’m starting to feel three or four or five times during an orgasmic session, that I’ll have this kind of wash of feeling, and this kind of even more delicious orgasmic sensation.  And that’s kind of where we are now, expanding into that.  And, you know, relaxing into that.  Not tightening up, but letting go.  And that’s about where we are now, wouldn’t you say?

Robert:  Yeah.  And it’s a good place to be.  [laughs]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Do you feel there’s any limit to how much pleasure you can feel, and how much sensation you can feel?

Heather: No.  I would imagine, with someone who was an able practitioner, someone like Robert who really knows my body, or any number of men who are really good at genital massage, or women, for that matter, but someone who can really ride your energy and who doesn’t take you up up up but remembers the downstrokes.  To me the key to duration and expanded pleasure is still in making sure that you let the woman almost rest or ground during the expanded lovemaking session.  So we’ve been able to go for an hour – what happens, actually, is that after you’ve had 45 minutes of insane, delicious pleasure, you want to have intercourse.  You want some fucking.  [laughs]  And you’re like, “Baby, you’ve just got to put it in me!”  So then you want to have that level of sex and all the pleasure that his penis has, and the sensation that that creates, which are now, for me – I didn’t used to be able to really feel that, either, and you know – and now, I feel so many different sensations from having his penis inside me.  And then him stroking my clitoris while his penis is inside me, or using a vibrator while his penis is inside me.  And all the different strokes he’s learned when he’s making love to me, that’s like a whole ‘nother level of lovemaking.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Good, because I was – it sounds like you’re going there anyway – I was going to ask you, what has happened to the rest of your life – your love life, your marriage, your relationship?  Going back six months maybe – since then, since all of this started falling into place?

Heather: The intimacy that was created through this sensual connection, and finally my ability to completely surrender, and to completely feel that beautiful sensation, delivered by my partner, has taken our relationship, our marriage, and our connection to levels I that never expected.  I can’t describe how connected I feel to him – how loving I feel to him, how protective I am of him, how precious he is to me, how loved I feel.  It’s what I’ve wanted my whole life, it’s what everybody wants.  It is what we want.  And I’m just treasuring and savoring these moments with Robert, because – man, it’s just such a beautiful time for us right now.  And the opportunity to push it even further is still there for me.  I feel like, even a year into understanding about expanded lovemaking, we’re still so new at it that there’s so much more. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, I would have to say, as someone who teaches people and coaches people, you’re definitely newcomers to this practice.  You are one year in, so how much better can it get?  Well, look at the galaxies, right?  You know – wow.  So, Robert, I’m going to ask you the same question – how is your relationship going these days?

Robert: This is what I always wanted.  This is what I had hoped being married would be like.  It took us 13 years to get here, and I’m glad it did.  Because now I appreciate it, I cherish and treasure it.  The thing for me that – I’m trying to think about what’s the most, what’s been the biggest payoff for me?  And I think part of it is that feeling that we’re just crazy about each other.  It’s like we’re newlyweds, and we just have that really deep intimate connection, and when we’re passionately making love to each other, it’s just so close and intimate, and delicious and fun.

Dr. Patti Taylor: What would you say, now, about all those books that you read before you had this training?  And would you go back to them and read them with a new set of eyes?  Or would you say I was crazy to think I could learn something from a book?  What perspective do you have on those books now?

Robert: That’s a difficult question.  So the books are – once you – there’s this kind of breakthrough, you have to realize that it’s possible.  You have to realize what, kind of, how do you make it click?  And maybe some people can figure it out from a book.  Maybe I just needed a little extra help.  Maybe it was the combination of the book and the video and seeing it in person.  I’m not sure what combination it would take, but the skills are in there.  Maybe if you’re the kind of person that can read a book and then immediately get it, maybe that’s all you need.  So for me it took more.  For both of us it took more.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Ok, thank you.  So what advice would you give to somebody who was debating what to do with their relationship, who just wanted more with their sweetheart, and maybe she’s like Heather and going “I don’t know, I wish he’d quit bugging me” or was in your shoes somehow.  What would you say to that person?  Other than listening to your show.

Robert: That’s an excellent question.  A lot of my friends have been married like seven to 10 years, and it seems like that’s when most relationships split up.  More than half of our friends are divorced.  It seems like what happens is they drift apart, and they either split up, or they stay together but are in this kind of parallel relationship where the wife stays home and takes care of the kids, and the guy gets into his work, and then they maybe stay together and then split up later, when the kids go to college.  And that’s kind of the path we were headed down.  We were going to be one of those typical statistics.  But I would say that through studying tantra, which was one of the things I was excited to learn about, I didn’t really understand it, but tantra was a manual, essentially, for when marriages were set up or arranged in India, you had to make the relationship work.  You had to create passion out of someone that you’d maybe never even met before, and you weren’t in love with them.  And so here, at least we were in love with each other, and we could start with something that was a good foundation, and then create our passion on top of that.  There are a lot tools, there are a lot of resources, there are a lot of ways to create that incredible passion that even two years ago we didn’t have – we wanted to have, but we just didn’t know how to get there – and we found all these tools, and things like your book, things like your podcast, and classes that are out there, videos that are out there, those are things that – it’s actually quite easy once you know what’s possible.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Ok, thank you.  So it was a lot easier than you thought, basically, once you found the path, is what you’re saying.

Robert: Yeah.  I thought it was – I literally thought that Heather had no desire for me and, you know, I didn’t see how it was going to happen.  We’d had it 12 years ago, we had that kind of passion and connection 12 years ago, and then for like 10 years we didn’t.  And I thought it was done – there was a lot of baggage there.  But I’m delighted to say that it’s easy to get rid of all that baggage and have that incredible relationship again.  And I wish all of our friends that were getting divorced would consider this path, so that they could figure out how to put that spark back in their relationship.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, joy and fun are very healing, aren’t they?  Do you have anything that you’d like to share and just tell the world?

Heather: Yes. A couple of things.  One: your pussy is beautiful.  It’s absolutely gorgeous, and your guy wants to touch it.  It is – I’ve been to these sensuality workshops and I’ve seen a lot of pussies!  Everybody has a look at everybody’s pussy at all these workshops, right?  It’s like, get out the mirror, we’re gonna look at pussies now, you know?  [laughs]  I actually really appreciated being able to have that experience because what I realized is they all look so different, and they’re all so beautiful.  And I had to feel confident that my husband really wanted to do that – he really wanted to spend an hour playing with me.  And then I had to allow us to begin as beginners, and not be good at everything.  I think another thing is a lot of lube.  Find things you like.  I like to start with oil, and then I like to move on to Liquid Silk, because it creates different sensations when he’s touching me.  I like to have the room at 76 degrees.  I like it to be pretty dark – because I want to feel comfortable, and I don’t 100% love my body.  I’ll cover myself up a little, and drape a little thing over me, or if I want to – I like to have candle light.  We have these little things called Candleloos that are like little flashlighty candles, instead of wick and flame candles, that make really pretty light.  I like to have really nice music, I have my favorite lovemaking music, so we actually set the room and create an experience.  And then I’ve also learned to give Robert a lot of feedback about what feels good, and what I want him to do, and where I want his fingers to go.  And to guide him a lot, and to not be afraid to do that.  And also, I’ve learned to use my voice, to moan and to gasp and to breathe and to growl, and that has heightened the pleasure, too.  It’s actually so much so that we don’t typically do this when our child is home because she’d think Daddy was killing me or something!  [laughs]  And so I like incorporating that, I like thinking about moving the energy, like all of that fabulous orgasmic energy, I like to move it around in my body and think about pushing it out.  So mostly, I would say to anyone considering it, just be really confident that you’re beautiful, be really confident that your partner wants to do this, and that they love it, and just be easy on yourself.  Just have patience with yourself.  And enjoy it like you’re a child learning how to eat ice cream.  It’s just a sensation, a beautiful sensation, and you can’t do it wrong.  And so those are some of the things I’d want to say. 

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Wow.  Just take a breath, and let that all in.  Thank you.  I have chills going up and down my body.  Oh, my God.  You know, when I think about people, families, just people opening the love, my pussy gets wet, too.  [laughter]  Thank you.  One more loving couple in the world.  And who knows?  Maybe more from listening to your story, so I just thank you for sharing your story.  I am so inspired.  Ooh.  I have chills.  So anyway, this is Dr. Patti Taylor, thank you so much for listening to our show today.  I will say that you’ve been listening to Heather and Robert – they will put up their favorite links with the things they think you might be interested in, if you are interested in starting down this very wonderful path of sensual and sexual awakening, and better relating, and better loving.  So do check out the Expanded Lovemaking Show on personallifemedia.com, and Heather and Robert’s show.  We will be returning next week to talk to Heather and Robert again.  For part two of this series – juicy questions, and powerful practices for feeling more pleasure.  We’ll cover Heather and Robert’s explicit questions about how to have even more fun, turn-on, and pleasure – as they seek to take their expanded orgasms, and their whole relationship, to new heights.  That brings us to the end of our show.  Thank you for listening.  For texts and transcripts of this show, and other shows on the Personal Life Media network, please visit our website at personallifemedia.com.  If you haven’t already, please be sure to subscribe to our show, so that you can get updates automatically, as soon as each new show is released.  This is your host, Dr. Patti Taylor.  That’s all for now.  I remain yours in ever-expanding lovemaking – and I’ll see you next week.

Announcer: This concludes part one.  The interview will be continued in the next episode of this show.

Announcer:  Find more great shows like this on personallifemedia.com