Episode 82 - White-Hot Awakening to Trust (Part Two) with Saniel Bonder and Linda Groves-Bonder, Spiritual Awakeners, Teachers, and Creators of the Tantra of Trust

Transcript

Narrator:  This program is intended for mature audiences only.

(music)

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Welcome to the Expanded Lovemaking show.  I'm your host, Doctor Patty Taylor of expandedlovemaking.com and I teach you how to make exquisite love.  This is part two of a two part series.  Today we're talking about White-Hot Awakening to Trust.  We've talked a little bit about Saniel Bonder and Linda Groves-Bonder in our first show; they're among today's foremost pioneers in the field of Embodied Mutual Awakening of Consciousness.  Their more awakened trainings, including the Tantra of Trust, and their Waking Down in Mutuality offerings are elements of a total collection of teachings they call the Whole Heart Way.  So today, I want to look at how men and women can step into embodied relationships, and I want to find out from them what these relationships would look like.  I also want to know, from them, why they think trust is so important; I mean, they do make it a real point in what they're talking about.  Also, what is this about the word White-Hot?  I love the word.  So, I also know our listeners who want to find out more about Linda's famous and beautiful method for getting more embodied, so let's get started.  Saniel and LindaMa, why is trust so important?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  That is the foundation we feel, in so much of individuals' embodiment process and awakening process, when one can really drop deeply into self-trust, and there's many meanings to attain that.  Then one can really move more fully in life, and in relationships, and intimate relationships, as well as relationships in family, coworkers, just in general.

Saniel Bonder:  If I could add to that just briefly Patti, what we found is that trust is a missing link.  People are working to try to be more connected, and love to have their hearts open, as we talked about more on the first show.  But trust is hard to come by, and getting more so in today's world.  And so, learning about trust and learning how to work with it, and strengthen it, and improve it when we get shaky with it; in ourselves, in our relationship to nature, to God, and of course, also with one another.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I think you're right, and I think something very close to the word trust has to be the word vulnerable, doesn't it?

Saniel Bonder:  It certainly does.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Absolutely.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  And I also think another word that you kind of had me think of when I was hearing you, was the word work; (laughs) that there's something you do with trust, is that it happens over time, it unfolds.  There's a way, I think, when I really open my heart to vulnerability and trust, it unfolds over time.  And there is a certain amount of work involved; it's almost like I kind of want the other person to prove themselves to me, I want them to show up.  I want them to kind of show me who they are.  I need to show up; I need to not run away.  There are a lot of skills involved, aren't there really?  It doesn't just sort of happen overnight.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Hmmm, a lot of skills and a lot of daring to step forward, and to trust.  Trust the difficult places too, in communication, and in relationships.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  That we won't run away when the stuff starts hitting the fan, right?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Exactly.  (laughs)

Saniel Bonder:  That's right, and that we're each able to, a favorite phrase of ours, carry our own shadow, in the challenging work of a transformational relationship.  People can just get by if they're stuffing all their stuff. (laughs) But, in a transformational partnership, the partnership itself is alive and juicy; it is itself a transmission, is what we were talking about in the other show.  And so, it's going to tend to bring the stuff up, the difficult parts, and trusting is ongoing work.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So let's talk about a transformational relationship, and what would a...let's talk about men and women, because you talk about that, and I think that's so juicy.  What would a transformationally evolved man look like?  Let's go with the man first.

Saniel Bonder:  Well, for one thing Patti, even though he is quite profoundly established in his own autonomy, knows who he is very deeply, both “positive” and “negative” parts, he is also not off in himself and uncommitted; he is, to use a word you brought up, profoundly vulnerable.  His feminine side is ready-access; he can speak his feelings and he also lives them, and he knows that he's not an island unto himself.  So his partner, male or female, finds him to be accessible, and not always pulling off into himself.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Okay, and how about the evolved, divinely-relating female woman?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Well, I feel that women are consistently deepening in their mothering aspect, and nurturing aspect, but also in their masculine.  And to balance the two to be able to really stand strong in oneself, and come from that real nurturing feminine side, I think is really important in relating.  And I think that's also true for men, being able to balance the masculine and the feminine, and so, through this process of deepening in oneself, that's what we help individuals do, is to access all sides of who they are, and to be as authentic and real as they can, but also doing it in mutuality in relationship.  And working as best we can to discover the places where we implode or we disappear, if there's a conflict in our relationship, for instance, the husband can say to the wife, “Well you're not really getting me, you're doing this, you're doing that”, and the woman might just disappear, and not be able to respond, because it is a very, very deep wound.  It kind of goes back to what we were talking about before, doing that deep investigation of the wounding and the broken zones actually enables you to be more of a confident person in the world, and in relationships.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Right, so we're going to get to the broken zones and broken souls in just a little bit, but I kind of want to paint out the good picture first; it's an intuition on my part.  So I'm going to just pursue this just a little bit further, here.  What are some ways that a man would help to awaken a woman to her greatest love making potential if he were divinely realized?

Saniel Bonder:  Well, for one thing, his presence activates, transmits that wellness and wholeness.  That fundamental strength and confidence in being himself to her, in a manner that profoundly acknowledges and recognizes her humanity and her divinity.  So there's a real, as one of our phrases someone gave to us, recently talking about this process in general, sublimely raw (laughs) living recognition and feeling of her.  And so, often, this elicits a profound commitment on the man's part, because he's seeing the goddess in flesh, before his eyes.  And that's not hokey, and he's not trying to think it; it's alive.  She is right here.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  And what does she look like?  What is a goddess in flesh?

Saniel Bonder:  She looks like a real woman.  She is herself, that full, and alive, and radiant, and mysteriously profoundly different from him, even though they can feel that sameness of the divine between them as well, so a wonderful paradox.  Very delicious, as you would say.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Also, I think it's important, just to get right down to the physicality of it, (laughs) it's really important for both partners, but for the man, since we're talking about the man, to be able to know the appropriate ways to approach and to attract and feel the woman.  Touch her, you know, and dare to ask for what she might need or want, in touching, or making love, and being gentile and  open and vulnerable.  It's just I feel that the actual physical aspect of the embrace is so important.

Saniel Bonder:  Yeah, he finds out what she likes, and he makes sure to provide it.  And that is a form, whether it's in lovemaking, or buying jewelry, whatever it may be, that is felt by him as, not in a pious, specialized way, but as a living of natural life; it's felt as a form of worship, of adoration.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, that is so beautiful.  We're going to take a short break.  This is Doctor Patti Taylor.  We are talking to Saniel Bonder and Linda Groves-Bonder, so please stay with us.  You can find out more about Saniel and LindaMa at their website:  HEARTgazing.com, and that's H-E-A-R-T-G-A-Z-I-N-G.

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Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, before we go any further, I'd like to go into the broken zones that we've been hinting that we would one day get to one of these days, (laughs) and I think now is the time.  I think that's one of my favorite things that you talk about, probably because I have so many of them, (laughs) and it's okay, you know?  Love and it's okay, because, what's my option, right?  That it's not okay?  And, love that it's okay, but it's okay.  So, would you please define, and it's okay that I'm healing them too, so would you please define for everybody else what they are?

Saniel Bonder:  Well, broken zones is a phrase that I came up with years ago, in doing my work.  I would frequently encounter in myself, as well as in others, and even while teaching, so the healing process goes on, but I would encounter these places where, in effect, you say something or touch someone, and the reaction they have is wildly disproportionate to what just happened.  Linda was talking about this earlier; a man or a woman might say to their partner something, and the other person just disappears, implodes.  Or, they explode; it's like ballistic attack coming back.  And gradually, I came to understand that of course there's a lot of work in really profound psychological terms about this.  But I came to see that they're broken in the sense that they're broken off from our normal daily identity, our sense of ourself.  And everybody has got these cutoff, we could say, fragments of identity that we've had to cut off from, in order to survive.  They're not bad, they're not wrong, but there is this discontinuity with them, and that's the sense of brokenness.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Okay, and do people usually know what their broken zones are?  Or if our listeners listening, how would they know what their broken zones are?

Saniel Bonder:  It's real simple; and we don't automatically know what they are, but we sure feel them when we take a plunge into being identified with them.  So, it's those moments where you're going through your life, and suddenly you're feeling intense fight or flight.  Or, you're feeling like you just withdrew from the world so deep inside, you're a million miles away.  Or you've just, as I said a minute ago, exploded, and you don't know why.  You don't know what happened.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  These also stem from deep wounds, perhaps in childhood, or wounds in relationship and intimate partnerships, or could be even in school; kids can experience wounds from teachers.  I mean, there's many, many different ways that a wounding can happen.  Sexual abuse is sometimes a very, very deep broken zone for individuals, and they have to do a lot of work to embrace themselves, even in the midst of the memory.  We also talked about envious{sp?} broken places; these are actual cellular memories that get lodged in the body, so part of the work that we do with individuals is to help them identify the broken zone.  The wounding, or shadow material, you might want to call it, and then embrace it in a way that it doesn't make it go away, that you never remember it, or have to encounter it again.   But the impact changes your relationship to the broken changes, and that's really an important piece of transformation.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So, I'm guessing that, I'm just going to name a few, and then you guys can add on, if you want, but I'm guessing we're talking about sex, love, and consciousness, and I'm thinking about sex and love at the moment.  Here's a few that I'm thinking of, for myself, is when I'm with a partner, and suddenly, I can't ask for what I want in a bedroom; I freeze.  Or they touch me the wrong way, course I'm a woman.  And usually I freeze my orbit[sp?].  I know, because I work with a lot of people, men and women, they just go into rage, "Why'd you do that?", and they freak out.  You touch them the wrong way; it was just a simple little thing, so the response is totally inappropriate to the action.  Or, you said the wrong thing; again, the response totally doesn't fit the reaction.  So, like you said, fight, flight; they run away.  They don't call you back when they should.  Freeze, flee, feed is another one, right?  Fight, flight, freeze, fornicate and lick it, that would be okay.  (laughs)

Saniel Bonder:  Actually, that's a really good point, Patti.  Because, in a transformational partnership, where we use that phrase, I borrowed it from Tantric Buddhism, a skilled and superlative partnership.  Part of the flexibility and the trust between the partners that can make for the most effective healing of these broken places, is that when you go in to one while you're trying to have a love making session, you're able, if it's the right move, you're able to switch gears and say, "Well hey, okay.  We don't have to make love right now; let's just sit and be here with this.  Tell me what you're feeling, I'm listening.  I don't need to make love right now, I want to be here; this is the love making now”.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I love that, I love that.  So, why don't we...let's go into that.  Linda, you have your six-step recognition part by yoga?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Yes, uh-huh.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Can we play with that, and maybe role play the example of a woman that doesn't speak up?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Oh, that's great, yeah.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I'll be the guinea pig, since I rehearsed that like thousands of times.  (laughter) It's one of my broken zones, I fixed it, usually, but by now, after years of practice, but I know it well.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  That's usually a big piece of the broken zone, and is a familiarity.  (laughs)  And the re-occurance of it.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Right, right.  If I freeze on this show, just start, I don't know, "Patti!", I won't, though; I'll try not to.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Okay.

Saniel Bonder:  Patti, before we go into that, thank you for being so vulnerable...

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Yes!

Saniel Bonder:  ...and open to acknowledge this in front of the whole world, and all your listeners....

(crosstalk)

Dr. Patti Taylor:  (laughs)  You're welcome.

Saniel Bonder:  It's great work.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Thank you.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Well, six-step recognition yoga is a process that I just spontaneously came up with years ago, when I was going through a particular difficult issue in my own life.  And it kept reappearing, and I kept having to revisit it, and feel the pain of it, and it was not getting relief.  And I, at one point in the afternoon, was feeling exhausted from the encounter of it again, so I laid down on the bed and was dozing off into a nap.  When I was kind of in-between awake and asleep, all of a sudden, I was contemplating the issue.  I sat straight up in bed, with this in my mind's eye, billboard, words, that were: see it, feel it, live it, be it, transcend it.  Just bam; all in place in an instant.  And in that moment of looking at that and feeling the meaning of all of those words, something had shifted in my relationship to the issue.  And it was directly linked to someone who I was involved with at the time, and I'm thinking, "Wow, this is very profound; I'm really feeling better".  You know, that I've fallen so deeply into this issue.  So, the seeing of it is the identification of what the issue actually is, so you identify what it is.  The feeling that is allowing yourself to embody it; bring it into the body, breathe into the body where you're feeling contraction as you contemplate the issue.  And in this case, what you brought up Patti, is maybe someone not being able to find their voice.  So you would identify that as the issue.  You breathe it into the body, feel the contraction, or the energies that might be forcing through the body as you contemplate the fact that it's difficult to speak up for what you want.  And also, the emotional component:  feeling what arises as you encounter that issue.  The third step would be live it.  The fourth is be it.  So they go very closely hand in hand.  You live it and be it by animating it, bring it into life, part of the animation of the encounter of the issue, is to speak it; if it involves another person, go to them directly, if whenever it feels natural and organic for you, and speak pieces of it, that can start to release the energy behind it.  And I like to use the image of a choke hold; you put your hand across your neck, and you can't breathe very well.  Well, as you become the issue, you see it, feel it, live it, you become it.  You allow it to just be what it is, through this encounter, that the intensity of it starts to loosen.  And then, the word transcend, I use because it's really the effect of the issue that you transcend; it's not that you disappear into some transcendent bliss, and you never have to encounter it again.  It's really the effect, it's the choke hold that the issue has on you.  So, in this case that you brought up, Patti, with the place where you're finding it difficult to speak what your needs are, you can access some of the deeper aspects of the patterning that's linked to that, perhaps, and understand it on a deeper level.  And what happens when that embrace and understanding occurs, is the transcending of the effect, of the chokehold, in other words.  And then the sixth step, which Saniel came up with, as I was so exuberantly expressing these five other steps, he thought it was brilliant.  He said, "Well, can I add one step?", and speak it all along the way, at appropriate moments.  And that was how the sixth step, recognition yoga, was created.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, great.  I want to say, and we're going to have to take a break, so we're going to come back, and see if we can tease this out a little bit more.  I do want to find out a little bit about your plans, I know they're amazing, so I want to leave some time for that.  So, this is Doctor Patti Taylor, and I'm here with Saniel Bonder, and Linda Groves-Bonder.  You can find out more about Saniel and LindaMa at their website, HEARTgazing.com, and I'll spell that:  H-E-A-R-T-G-A-Z-I-N-G.com, and I just want to say that everything that LindaMa just said is beautifully spelled out in, I think it's the second lesson of their HEARTgazing, which is a free four-part program; it's evolving, many parts course[??].  And it's totally an amazing gift that they're just offering, and it's of the highest quality imaginable.  So, definitely check out HEARTgazing.com for such a beautful gift.  So please stay with us.

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Dr. Patti Taylor:  We're back, and we're talking about White-Hot Awakenings to Trust.  So, LindaMa is going to wrap that up.  What I heard you say, but I'm going to paraphrase it, and kind of chunk it down:  here I am with my partner, and I'm having trouble vocalizing, and I'm going to get in touch with, first of all, I'm just going to note it that [things I'm not in the flow??] anymore, and just get in touch with the fact that there's just something that's off, and I'm going to go through the steps that you outline in your HEARTgazing program.  And I'm really going to investigate that, and hear it, see it, feel it, be it, and speak about it, in one of that order that you said, maybe (laughs).  And probably, share with that with my partner, and it sounds like by doing all of those things, engage my thinking, feeling, different qualities of perception, and really spin it around, and understand it, and process it, and embody it, and make it real, and live it, so that it is not in my shadow anymore, but becomes real, and becomes shared, and it comes into the light, and I own it.  Does that sound like, some kind of new paraphrase for you?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  (laughs)  I love how you described it, and yes, indeed.  And in this particular issue, yes, it definitely involves your partner, and so, by doing that together, that is also part of the transformation, or the transcending the effect of the issue itself.  And then there's a sense of safety that starts to enter in, when you're able to find your voice there, and speak it from that deep, deep HEART place.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  You know, one thing I really love about your process, is that I've often done something like that when I'm having a date with my partner.  Where things aren't going right, and when it isn't, whoa!  And it goes back to what you said, Saniel, where it's like, stop the date.  And we'll often do that; things are not working out right, and we'll just stop.  It's like, if it isn't working, we'll just stop, and we'll go through our own process.  Though I always love when there's a formula or format for people, kind of gives them those training wheels.  So I think this is beautiful.  But we'll often stop and we'll uncover and [unintelligible] what's going on.  And then we'll resume again, and often when we do resume, it is richer, and the block has been resumed, moved through.  Then we have this gorgeous...it just feels great, whatever.  It's better, it's almost like, whatever the block was has now become fertilizer for something amazing.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  I love that; that's really well put.  Another thing, physically, that you can do when you're lying next to your partner is, he can just put his hand right on your heart, and there's a real deep connection that happens.  And you can put your hand on his heart, and there's that place of safety that's created, where you feel like, "Okay, we don't have to actually make love in this moment; we can just be together in this fashion.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Yes, that is great; that is another kind of making love, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

Saniel Bonder:  That's right.  And it's also that amazing thing that's happened is, you just deepend in trust.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Yes.

Saniel Bonder:  You know that if something comes up like this, you can rely on the other person to go there with you...

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Yes.

Saniel Bonder:  ...and they can rely on you.  That's enormous.  That makes the date even better.  It's just a more...it's dating 101, you know.  It's more advanced.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Yes.  Well, now I'm going to ask the question, why White-Hot?

Saniel Bonder:  Well, thank you Patti.  It kind of links back to the first show we did, where there's this healing of this spirit matter split that goes on, and part of what that healing leads to, is an awakening; an awakening of your consciousness.  So that you know yourself to be, you feel that you are, as the cliche goes, because it points to something real, you are one with everything.  You are united; you know yourself, to use an image here, to be the ocean of all that is existing, all that you're seeing and feeling and experiencing.  You're in a sameness with all of that, at the same time that you're also perceiving things.  And also being yourself.  So there's a unity of spirit and matter, or of consciousness and form that goes on in this awakening process.  Well, White-Hot is a phrase that I came up with, to indicate that it's as if that unification itself goes deeper.  Like a relationship goes deeper.  And so, it can become so profoundly sweet and delicious and intense, that it's as if it's white hot; that's the best phrase I could come up with for it.  And it changes, as that kind of intensification of union with being, of awakening to the God nature; whatever you want to call it, self-realization.  As that intensifies, it produces an even stronger trust in the inherent goodness and “okayness” of everything, to put it as simply as I can.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, (laughs) I want some of that whatever...

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Bring it on!

Dr. Patti Taylor:  That is hot; White-Hot.

Saniel Bonder:  Yeah.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Wow.  Beautifully said.

Saniel Bonder:  Thank you.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  I am glad there is a transcript of this show.  Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.

Linda Groves-Bonder:  There's a deeper authenticity that happens when all that happens, you know; you're real, you're really real in the body, in relationship.

Saniel Bonder:  And by the way, Patti, since we're on the Expanded Lovemaking Show: Sex, Love, and Consciousness, this particular opening came through for me in the midst of lovemaking.  It was before I met Linda, actually, and I like to say that I feel like it prepared me for the true love of my life.  But, this is something that that intensification is something that lovers can experience, and become more and more touched and healed and enriched by.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, since you're teaching this stuff, I think it's appropriate to share that, and I think that this is what it's all about, is getting ever and ever more White-Hot.  And so, I think I've read a lot of your work, and I think this deeping[sp?] into trust,and profound trust, and opening up our hearts and that energy is completely linked into that kind of White-Hot awakening that you talk about, yes.  By the way, your last chapter of Waking Down is so White-Hot, (laughs)  I think you just live and breathe White Hot, you know? (laughs)  It just keeps getting whiter and hotter, so it's just kind of you (laughs).  Linda just kind of fans the flames, and makes it whiter and hotter, too.  Anyway, I want to talk a little bit about what you're doing in the world, because I think that's also amazing.  We're coming to the close of our show, would you like to tell us about that?

Saniel Bonder:  Yeah, I think the most important thing to say is that we're embarking now on a much more expansive stage of our work.  I mean, as we're talking Patti, this is early 2009.  The world is in really still the beginning of economic and financial convulsions that are, the words confidence and trust are in the financial news all the time; how there's so little of it.  And so, we're embarking on what we call the Take Heart Tour, that is going to, we anticipate, take us probably to countries around the world, and will give us the opportunity to do our HEARTgazing not only through the online media, but also face to face with lots of people, and give us the opportunity as well, as adepts, and we appreciate your using that language, to go and, as pilgrims, go to both holy and sacred places that mean a lot to humanity.  And also the places of infamy, where we've done horrific things to one another, or terrible things have happened, and offer our prayers and blessings to the betterment of life on this planet.  So this tour is a major thing we're doing, and we're also of course developing our work, both the more publicly accessible parts, which is HEARTgazing, which is a simple resource for anybody who wants help and empowering support.  Whatever their life may be all about, their personal religious and spiritual practices.  So, there's that side, and then there's also several intensive processes that we make available, that we're in the midst of creating a legacy that we hope will contribute for a long time to come.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  What are some of the countries?

Saniel Bonder:  Well, we're in the early stages of talking with people in the UK, and also Australia.  Of course, we already visit Canada.  We have some friends in India, that's a big trip coming up at some point.  Just happened to have gotten through our HEARTgazing work, a couple of guys in Sweden.  It's so interesting, by the way Patti, I know you must run into this all the time:  people are popping and evolving and ripening all over this planet.  So, we'll probably visit a lot of places by the time we're done.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  It is very interesting; I think the whole world is waking up, and is waking down, right?

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Definitely.  (laughs)  Simultaneously.

Saniel Bonder:  Looks that way.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Right, right.  It is that age.  Well, we are going to close this show in just a moment.  I'd like to ask and invite both of you to share one parting, final thought of, that our listeners can take into their day with them.

Saniel Bonder:  The main thing that I want to offer, is follow your heart.  Continue to grow in your capacity to discern what is best and most appropriate for you, whatever that may be.  And truly do find your passion, and make your contribution; the world needs you, as awake and clear and creative as you can be.  So, follow your heart's call, and you will find your way to do what you are really here to do.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  That's so beautiful, that's so simple; follow your heart.  Thank you, thank you, thank you for that.  And LindaMa...

Linda Groves-Bonder:  Yes, same thing.  One's heart's passion is what helps us all move into the world, and so, when you are individuating, and finding your truth, and following your heart as Saniel said, you're also assisting others in doing the same.  You're bringing it into life; bringing it into relationships.  And I'd like to use the words, "Finding your rhythm".  Be gentile with yourself, also, in your investigations and the way that you move, and really discern and discriminate us to what serves you, which will serve the world and relationships and trust; trust those moves in your being.  And be gentile.  And know that I, for one, am sending many, many blessings to all of you, and really appreciate you being listeners of this great program, and thank you so much Patti, for having us on your show.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Wow.  Thank you, thank you.

Saniel Bonder:  Yeah, I feel the same way, and as Linda said, blessings to everybody listening.  Blessings on your journey, wherever it may lead.  Thank you for being here.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Wow, wow.  Beautiful, beautiful words.  So, that does bring us to the end of our show.  We're going to close this show.  I do have a request for my listeners:  Will you take five minutes and help me out, filling out an anonymous survey at Survey.PersonalLifeMedia.com?  It's fast, it's easy, and it really helps me, by figuring out who's listening, so thank you for that.  So, please send me email at [email protected].  For text and transcripts of this show, and other shows on the PersonalLifeMedia Network, please visit PersonalLifeMedia.com.  And visit me, Doctor Patti Taylor at expandedlovemaking.com, where you can join my mailing list, and find out more about my products, services and events.  This is Doctor Patti Taylor.  That's all for now.  I remain yours, in ever Expanded Lovemaking, and I'll see you next week.

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