Episode 2 - “How Are You Being – It Matters.” Part II with Travis Decker and Kendra Cunov
Alissa Interviews Decker and Kendra from Authentic SF Part 2 - Demystifying “Seduction” and “Game”
Announcer: This program is intended for mature audiences only. This is part two of a two-part podcast. If you’d like part one, you’ll find it at personallifemedia.com.
Alissa Kriteman: Welcome back to Just for Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. I’m your host, Alissa Kriteman, and we’re here today talking with Decker and Kendra from AuthenticSF. We’ve been having very juicy conversations, but now I want to get into something a little juicier.
Something that I’ve experienced myself out in clubs, dance clubs, with some girlfriends. And I’ll call it game. And it’s not very fun. I don’t like it. Neil Strauss wrote a book called The Game. Do you want to talk about that, Travis? You probably know better than me what that was all about.
Travis Decker: I’m familiar with it because it influences the men’s work I do. My experience with it is, there were a bunch of guys, actually around the world, who were struggling to get dates. And getting frustrated. And the women they were interested in ended up dating some guy who they thought was a jerk. And sometimes was a jerk. And he was getting, let’s just be friends. You feel like my brother. And they were getting really fed up. And I think the dark underbelly of it is, they were also really angry with women.
Alissa: The men were angry with women.
Decker: The more often that a woman would not date him, and at the same time date a jerk and then get her heart broken and be upset about it.
Kendra Cunov: And come and cry on his shoulder. Because he’s such a good friend.
Alissa: Oh, I see. OK.
Decker: The more hostile these guys get towards other men. Those jerks. And the less respect they had for these women. And so they go and start collecting social psychology concepts mixed with hypnosis techniques mixed with… They just basically start powwowing on how to how crack the code on how to attract women.
Kendra: There’s just one other little snippet to put in there, is to take into consideration how the typical male brain works. And it very much likes to break things down and it really likes solutions. And so this concept of, OK. I’ll break it down. This is one aspect of what women want. And this is another aspect. And this is another aspect.
And then breaking down each of those little pieces. Like, OK, dress like this. Stand like this. And all these. And partly you can just map that onto the male brain and its desire. It’s like, OK, I want something, let me figure it out.
Decker: And the beautiful part of it is that it’s very proactive. It’s men who literally networked across the planet, being proactive about having the kind of relationships they want. Or at least having more attraction with women. And what has happened is that it actually has benefited them.
First of all, they have cracked the code to some degree. They are more effective. If you heard the techniques or the tactics or the things they rehearse, you would probably be turned off by it. And yet, it may actually work on you in the moment.
Alissa: Yeah. OK.
Decker: And I think even more powerfully, these guys have started supporting each other. Remember what I said in the beginning, that relationship with other men is the foundation from which I started having great relationships with women. They were inadvertently experiencing men’s culture at a time when there is none.
Alissa: Interesting. Thank you for explaining that to me, because that really helps me understand the game and the seduction community and how it came about. I know I’ve felt the effect of men who are dancing on the dance floor with myself and with my girlfriends, and we let them dance with us. And there’s this intrusion, and we didn’t even ask them for drinks. We were just thirsty and said, would you be able to get us some water? And “no” was their response.
So this is why I started to get interested in, what is that? That these men came up. Didn’t ask, just started dancing with us. And then weren’t willing to get us something like water that we were wanting because we were really hot on the dance floor. And then I started learning about The Game, and Pickup 101, and all of this stuff. And I’m interested to hear what you guys have to say. Clearly you know a lot about it.
What is the underbelly of it? How women can be aware of this and know how to deal with it. Because for me, it incited a little bit of anger and confusion. And I’m thinking to myself, do these guys really think I’m going to give them any more of my heart and attention if they can’t even get water? And they haven’t even asked me if it feels good that they’re dancing with me? And I know this is happening all over the place.
So thank you for explaining that. So what else is there? How do we deal with that? I think it’s great that men are creating a culture for themselves, but you said there’s a danger in that if there’s no heart. If men haven’t dealt with this frustration of not being successful.
And then I want to know, three-fold question, what are they successful in? Getting laid? Like, what’s happening?
Decker: I started interacting with these guys, because they started flooding our seminars because they were getting miserable.
Alissa: So these were guys who had gone to other pickup, gamey sorts of seminars, and it just wasn’t enough.
Decker: They benefited from it. They started saying no when you ask for water. Why? Because before, they were like, oh, can I get you something?
Kendra: Oh, would you like to step on me?
Decker: They were at one extreme trying to win your approval, which has you feel like he’s just a friend. Because he’s needy. So now they’re swinging to the other extreme and acting like they don’t care about you at all.
Alissa: Which is worse, I think.
Decker: Not for them. They would rather you be angry at them than consider them just a friend.
Alissa: OK. Because at least there’s more of a chance.
Decker: For attraction.
Alissa: That they’re going to get—what?
Decker: Some sort of attraction. Anything other than miss and miss and miss. That’s really the intention I found with most of the guys. In fact, those first guys who were really frustrated with women, I think that was the foundation. But now I think it’s just guys who don’t want to go into therapy, or couples’ therapy or something. But they do want to be proactive about having better relating with women.
So there’s all kinds of different guys going in there, and they’re memorizing all this stuff. They’re getting some benefit from it. I still say they benefit just as much from the sense of brotherhood. There’s a vibe they bring into their life that’s attractive to women, when they have more brotherhood. I’d say they benefit more from that than from any of the distinctions or tactics. But both.
And then they find themselves miserable. Because even though they get more phone numbers now, even get laid more now, they’re not enjoying themselves. It feels canned. Everything feels canned. They say things like, I feel like I’m in a box. Everything feels hollow, like a shell. All of these things. So they start flooding our seminars looking for depth. Looking for something that actually feels rewarding.
It’s like, OK, the mystique of how to get a woman’s number has worn off now. It wasn’t the Holy Grail I thought it was. So what was I wanting? There’s something nourishing possible. What is it? How do I get it? That’s how I know about it.
Alissa: OK. So that community actually serves a purpose. It takes men from being really disconnected, closed off, maybe a little socially inept. And gets them in the game.
Kendra: So to speak. I would say definitely.
One of the distinctions that we often will bring into a seminar is the image of a tree. And if you look at a tree, there’s the tree of it. There’s the trunk. And it has leaves. And that’s necessary for a tree. And it also has roots, which are also necessary. And the pickup community we look at as sort of a top-down approach. It’s for the leaves. If you just focus on the leaves, then ideally that will support the roots. And it can have that effect, if you just focus on, OK, what is a better way to dress that women will respond more positively to? Or what is a way to speak?
Decker: Better posture.
Kendra: That type of thing. They’re all very positive things. And then if a man actually starts to have positive interactions with a woman, that can build his self-esteem, which will have him have more positive interactions with women. It could have that effect.
We still believe that the leaves are important. But our approach is more about the roots. And if we really, fundamentally address that, the leaves themselves will bloom naturally. And even when we’ve had men who have studied pickup. We’ve even had men who have taught pickup come through our seminars. And one of the things that we really like to make sure that they get, is that everything they’ve learned they don’t need to throw out the window.
It’s still great that they know how to have upbeat conversations. Or it’s fun to be able to get women to laugh. We like to be uplifted in our interactions. It’s fun to have someone come over and entertain. All these things are valuable skills. And addressing the roots portion, that undercurrent part, just has all of that flow in a more interesting way, and they’re going to be more rewarded as well, and enjoy their evening more.
Decker: I can tell it’s good for you to hear that. I think it’s great for all you women listening to hear that, that what’s going on for guys is a genuine desire. I say it’s literally they’re wanting to pick up. They’re wanting to have more uplifting interactions with women. They may not admit it. They may not even be aware of it. But the drive behind all these men all over the planet having email list after email list and seminars and workshops and memorizing. Insane amounts of banter lines and stories. The genuine desire behind it is that they’re really wanting to have more uplifting interactions with you all.
Alissa: So I guess we as women can have more compassion, myself included, for men. Because what you’re saying is really endearing. They really don’t know. And they’re just trying to have this closeness, intimacy, with a woman.
Decker: Trying to win.
Alissa: And they’re just struggling, they’re trying to win. Yeah.
Kendra: And just as another woman, because I have, through our seminars, and going to different conferences, interacted with a fair number of the guys in the seduction community, the pickup community. That really has been my experience. That fundamentally, when it comes down to it, they’re just guys who want to relate with women. Some of them have gotten really detached from themselves over the process. It’s painful to be with.
And there’s just two sides. I mean, speaking to all you women, you don’t have to make it your job to always have compassion or to train them differently. And kind of relating this back to the beginning, where it’s our desire. Really, any person at any moment has the opportunity to bring it deeper. And as women, we have that opportunity with men. And you have that interaction out on the dance floor and it doesn’t feel good.
You’re going to be in different situations where you’re willing to bring different levels of depth. But there is actually that opportunity to offer your truth, as much of an open heart as is possible in that moment. Like, wow, I’m really not enjoying being around you. Or like, wow, that seemed like a line. Was it?
Kendra: Or what would be the most fun interaction that you would actually want to have with me? Or who knows what you’ll say.
Alissa: Well that’s what I was going to ask you. Because my initial response, which maybe a lot of women might join me in.
Kendra: And it’s totally understandable.
Alissa: Was to close down. And I was just thinking to myself, I’m struggling here. Because I’m in a club. I don’t feel the comfort of telling my truth. Which maybe if we were somewhere else we would have. So yeah. How do we as women, when we experience this kind of “ouch.” That really hurt. And I didn’t say it. I wasn’t honest. And this is all about being authentic.
Decker: Yeah. So you start with yourself. Get in touch with how dry the world would be if men never approached women. And that you can actually enjoy being approached, and at least these guys are giving it a shot. So get honest with yourself about that first. And the fact that you asked for water. You were asking for something. You were engaging them. So take responsibility for your part, and then be forthright about what you’re wanting.
It may be that you’re not wanting to be approached, period. And you can learn how to gracefully set those boundaries. But it may be that you actually, if you’re present to the fact that you enjoy a world where men go for it sometimes, and are really drawn to you irresistibly, then you may have enough bandwidth to say, hey, I’m glad you came up. And that seemed canned. Let’s see how real we can be.
Alissa: That’s nice.
Decker: And you’re totally welcome to be here. Because he’s worried about whether he’s going to get slapped, whether he’s going to be accused of being creepy or intruding on you. He’s got a lot going on in his head. So if you want to enjoy interactions with men, you can take more responsibility for authentically speaking what’s going on for you, what you want, what your boundaries are.
Decker: Without it becoming clinical and sterile. Just in a really organic way.
Alissa: Thank you. And it’s really holding. I love that, because I hadn’t really thought about it before. But that’s why this conversation is so fascinating. Because I don’t think women are thinking, oh, isn’t that great? He’s swinging out there. He must think I’m someone worth interacting with. He wants to connect with me. But I have to say, women, we need to practice this. It’s not something that we’re naturally taught. To be open and speak our mind and speak our truth. And be authentic in those moments where it might be uncomfortable.
Decker: Well ideally, they will have already done the Authentic Man Program.
Decker: Then you won’t have to deal with it. But in the meantime, yeah.
Alissa: We can help.
Decker: Yeah, absolutely. And rather than feeling victimized by it, you can have more understanding of it. And be more proactive about at least doing your half of the equation to make it more uplifting.
Alissa: That’s beautiful. Thank you.
OK, we’re going to cut to a commercial break. And when we come back, Decker is going to tell us the top three things we need to know about men. We’ll be right back.
[music and commercial break]
Alissa: OK, welcome back to the show. I’m very excited to hear what Decker has to tell us about the top three things women need to know about men. Of course, I want to know, is it really true that men just want to have sex?
Decker: I can fit that in.
Alissa: OK, good.
Decker: Because I’m not only taking a look at old wives’ tales and standard superstitions about man/woman dynamics, but I’m really in the trenches with these guys, and moment-to-moment getting in touch with what’s really going on for them.
Alissa: I love that. You’re completing an inquiry about what’s been going on in the past. And then from your own work, creating new beliefs, we’ll say.
Decker: New possibilities. And not only for guys to take a look at, but I think it is great for women to have a better understanding of what’s going on on the man’s side of things. Men wanting to just have sex. All they’re interested in is sex. Even if they go on a date and there’s all of this intimacy and connection, all of it’s just because they think that’s what they have to do in order to have sex.
Decker: Got it. I’ve met men who say that. I just want to get laid. I don’t care about all that stuff. And what I’ve found, if a man says that, he’s closed down in some way or another. I’ve never had a man say that who’s not flagrantly really tight in his body. Either collapsed, kind of hunched over, or really posturing and puffing his chest out, trying to act tough, or something really tight in his body.
And within a few exercises we do, of him getting feedback and starting to get curious and noticing things about himself. If he’s not holding tight like that, he’s instantly bawling like a baby. Or really afraid or feeling a lot of loss that he’s not been willing to feel, usually for a long time.
So that specific question, is it just about sex? Men who are really in their center and really open and just being genuine about what’s there for them, are especially interested in intimacy and connection, and particularly fascinated by and hungry for sex. It’s both. And I’ve noticed that so profoundly, that all the places guys close down tight like that or say harsh things like that, there’s a lot of emotion behind it.
I looked at some of the schools, especially in the more conscious Bay Area. And in places where there are Montessori schools or Waldorf, where there’s not such rigid gender roles. The boys, when they’re not trained to have to be competitive and don’t be a crybaby and all that, are oftentimes more huggy, wanting hugs and wanting to be close, more than the girls are. The girls are more independent earlier than the boys are. And when they’re allowed to have whatever they really want, they’re actually cuddly and affectionate and wanting to be close.
Alissa: Isn’t that adorable. And yet it gets cut off.
Decker: Yeah. I was sobbing when I was watching it, because I was in army schools, and we certainly had no room for any of that. We never got touched. We were taught to be tough and clash with each other on the playground. So that really gets cut off. So that’s where that attitude of it’s only about sex comes from. Coupled with the fact that men have really intensely strong sex drives. Actually, it’s both.
So I think that’s number one. For women to know that there’s a lot of emotional stuff going on for guys that they have no idea is there. And when they actually drop down and start crying all of a sudden, they’re shocked. They’re like, check this out, dude. I was sad yesterday.
Alissa: Isn’t that amazing?
Decker: They are. They’re shocked by it. Because they had no idea it was there. So even if you ladies are picking up on it, just try on that he’s completely clueless that there’s emotions going on for him behind the quirky behavior.
Number two, if he’s coming off slimy, in particular. If men are coming off slimy, as opposed to creepy, they are objectifying women in some way. If they’re not present to the fact that there’s another human being here, they’re going to come off slimy.
Alissa: What would that look like?
Decker: For guys, they come up, and you’re either an objective, because they’re wanting to practice learning how to be better with women. So you’re not a human being with your own desires, you just had your own day. You’ve got your own family. You have your own fears. You’re not a human being over there. You are just a part in the playing out of their idea of what they want and what they’re supposed to do.
Decker: Yeah. So not only is it painful for you, it’s painful for him. And it’s not always slimy like women are just pieces of meat. That’s an extreme case. Usually it’s slimy like, I want the women to be pretty and playful and open and radiant with me. You’re an object like a little toy. They’re like, hey, where’s the string I pull?
Alissa: Why won’t you give me what I want? Yeah.
Decker: I see other guys have the women be really pretty and playful and open with them. Why won’t you do that? Poking at you like, where’s the button that I push?
Alissa: Or like, aren’t I great? Aren’t I great? Can’t you see me? Like it really has something to do with them, vs. their attention on us as a living, breathing…
Decker: Other half of the equation. That’s where slimy’s coming from. And I think a lot of women take it really personally and get very closed down, like he is actually in hostility towards her humanity. And it’s usually just an oblivion towards her humanity, in his desperate attempt to try to do it right.
Alissa: Yes, OK. He’s trying to do it right.
Decker: And there’s very little that you can do to help him get it. Although I think it would be hilarious to just say, hey, by the way, I’m another human being over here. Did you know that? [laughs] I would just love to see what he says, how he responds to that. That’s slimy.
Now creepy is a very distinct vibe from slimy.
Alissa: I love this. I love this. You’ve thought a lot about this, and I appreciate that. I’ve got to tell you, anyone listening now is deeply appreciating this perspective.
Decker: I had to get behind the eyes of y’all, to understand what’s going on. And that’s the breakthrough that men get also, is they’re stuck in first position. Their perception, without getting what it’s like for her. When I did that, a lot started to become clear for both sides.
Alissa: Wait, hold on. I just have to say one more little thing. One last burning question about slimy. So when a man is being slimy, you’re saying it is not our place to try to help him grow. We should just be thankful and move on.
Decker: I didn’t say that, but I think that may be. I’m not saying it’s not your place. I’m just saying that you may not be able to do much about it.
Alissa: OK. Because I can see where a lot of women get stuck in these relationships where they think they’re going to change him.
Decker: Save him.
Alissa: And the sliminess is very subtle and seductive. But you can feel it. As a woman, we don’t know what’s going on. We don’t know what to do with it. So there’s a process of being able to identify it. This is how I’m feeling about what you’re saying about that. There’s this whole process you’re bringing.
Decker: For women to understand why that felt crappy. Yeah, absolutely. And whether you decide to try to wake him up a little bit or not I think is a personal choice. Slimy in particular is a very difficult one for guys to get. They’re really stuck in a more automaton way of relating. You can see it, because he talks to you, and he’s not speaking to you as another person. He’s just like, duh duh duh duh duh, so yeah, I was noticing this and that. He’s just reporting his mental dialogue off into the ether. He’s not speaking it directly at you.
He’ll start talking about his new engine in his truck that you know nothing about. And you’re sitting there rolling your eyes, but he wouldn’t even notice, because he’s not talking to you. He’s just doing the talking thing. Because that’s what he’s supposed to do, to do the right thing in the dating thing. It’s all objectified. And it comes off slimy.
Alissa: OK. Thank you.
Alissa: On the other hand.
Decker: Creepy is important, maybe even more important. Because women get scared when guys are creepy. And if you’re feeling creeped out by a guy, he’s veiling his intentions in some way. This is what I tell the guys. If you’re coming off creepy a lot, that’s the feedback that you got? Great. Do you get slimy? No, they don’t say slimy. Oh, they say creepy. Good. You’re veiling your intentions in one way or another.
Every time it comes off creepy for a woman, I’ve found someplace where he’s not being forthright about what’s actually going on for him, or what he actually wants. Now women get freaked out about this. When they feel a veiled intention, it’s not just like, oh, he’s kind of slimy. It’s like, he needs to get kicked out. I’m going to tell the bouncer to get him out of the bar, or whatever. These guys are usually not veiling some malicious intention.
They’re usually not trying to trick you into the parking lot and then kidnapping you in their van or something. They’re usually just wanting to not come off too strong. Or if I’m like, well what intention are you veiling? Well, I don’t want her to think I’m hitting on her. I don’t want to make her uncomfortable.
Alissa: But you are.
Decker: Which then, paradoxically and ironically, is the thing that comes off so creepy. So half the time when guys come off even intensely creepy, the intensity is their nervousness. And the creepy is them trying to hide how into you they are. Not that they intend to kidnap you.
Alissa: Oh, OK. So they’re hiding how into us they are? But they’re also not being straight about how nervous they are.
Alissa: You have a big job. That’s major. Because, yeah. Men are nervous. They want this attention from this woman, and how do they go about getting it? And then they’re fake about it, so then we’re creeped out and we want them to go away.
Decker: And you probably should. I say enjoy yourselves. Don’t try to tolerate this. But at least understand it so you don’t overreact to it. So you can have some sense of compassion for where he may be coming from.
Alissa: So could I say to him, wow, I really appreciate that you’re talking to me right now, and what you said feels a little creepy. Could I say that?
Decker: If you appreciate it. If you genuinely appreciate that he’s approached, then you could say that. And say, I can’t tell why you’re talking to me right now. I think it would be fun. Let’s play just being totally forthright with each other. What has you talking to me right now? Invite out his intention.
Alissa: Invite out his intention.
Decker: And ideally, he comes up, hey, did you notice those people over there? This is a great party. And you have a little small talk. And he’s like, the reason I came up and talked to you is, honestly, you’re the most interesting person I’ve seen in the place.
Alissa: That’s a door-opener. I would say, what do you find interesting about me? Yeah.
Decker: Ideally, he would be forthright about that. If he’s not, then either exit, or be forthright that that’s what you want.
Alissa: At least that’s genuine, and it’s not what you were saying about slimy, where I’m just this object who’s maybe pretty, or has a nice body that he wants to come over and interact with in some way.
Decker: Here’s the thing. You may invite out what his intentions are, so he’s not being creepy. And you may find out that his intentions are just to get some. And so you still may be a no. And you still may gracefully bow out and say, good luck to you. I’m going to go enjoy the interactions I have. You may still do that. But at least you’ll understand what was going on. And for him, he’ll get real-time feedback. Something’s missing.
Alissa: What percentage of men do you think are really open to real-time feedback?
Decker: If you get the art of it down. The women who inspired the Authentic Man Program through myself and Bryan Bayer, they weren’t doing it in a course room. They were doing it in their lives. One woman in particular. Nicole Starbuck is a relationship coach who would walk into a café and interact with someone and have them sobbing and laughing and opening up.
If we went out to a club, she would be giving guys feedback, and they were reeling. And these were the really shallow, drunk, party guys. That was the stereotype for them. Who were really moved and thanking her profusely. Because no woman had ever stayed connected with him in the face of her repulsion to how he was being. No one cared enough to really connect with him and push through that and give him the straight dope.
Alissa: So as women, we need to be a little bit more bold, but not mean.
Decker: If you want to get through to these guys, yes. I don’t want this to be like this is the obligation for women now to rescue these guys. I just think it would great for you to understand what’s going on. And if you want to, if you want to play with being a little more forthright with guys, it may be a profound gift for them.
Alissa: Because here’s what I’m noticing. We both have an innate desire. Men want to connect with women. Women want to connect with men. This is why your organization is flourishing the way that it is, because you’re offering something that not only sounds right, it feels right. And from your experience is very effective.
You’re not out there saying, women, unleash the firehose on these guys. You’re saying be conscious. Be grounded. Be willing to be bold and speak your truth in the moment. And be willing to walk away.
Decker: Honor yourself from an informed place. Understand what’s going on. And then, like you were saying, you might take a little risk. Have fun with it. And say, hey, it would be great if you came over and swept me off my feet right now and this became the romance of my dreams. And right now I can’t even make eye contact with you. I can’t tell if you’re talking to me, or if you’re just reciting something you memorized. You may actually speak that, and it may change a life. If it does, it will change the lives of every woman he interacts with. That’s why we do what we do.
Alissa: Got it. Nice. So we covered all three, yeah? Creepy, slimy…
Decker: And just any place where guys are harsh and closed-hearted. Whether it’s all I want is sex, or I don’t care what she thinks, or whatever. They’re closing down to say things like that. There’s a lot of emotion and hurt and desire that they’re afraid to feel behind that.
Alissa: That’s really good to know. It’s really their fear. Because I think without that understanding, they just look like insensitive dolts. But really, there’s a lot of heart there. There’s innocence there. There’s probably wounding from the past.
Decker: Every time. There’s certain men who come in my course, that I get convinced by their bullshit. I’m like, wow, this guy really is just a cold-hearted guy who doesn’t care about women. It’s convincing. They designed it to be convincing. It’s a bluff, and sometimes they’re really good at it. And every one of them.
In fact, the guys who are the most harsh and cold were the ones sobbing. And had the biggest hearts. By the end of it, when they did open up, they had huge hearts. That’s why they were guarding themselves so intensely. Because they get hurt so deeply.
Alissa: That’s beautiful. Thank you so much. Ladies, that is news you can use.
Alissa: Thank you, Decker, for going through that. There is so much more to cover.
Decker: To be continued.
Alissa: Yeah. Definitely to be continued. So we can find you at AuthenticSF.com. That’s your site.
Alissa: Ladies, you’ve got to check this stuff out. I’m very excited to do the AWE program of the AuthenticSF and come to the games night and meet Decker, and meet myself, because I am definitely staying tapped into this. This feels really good. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your insight. And we’ll be back in a minute.
[music and commercial break]
Alissa: Thank you so much, Decker and Kendra, for being with us today and sharing your insights and deeply profound information and completely new perspective, I say, on relationships and dating. We haven’t covered sex yet, but I’m going to have you guys back for that.
So how can we find you? AuthenticSF.com, yeah? That’s the website.
Decker: That’s us. Yeah. If any of the women want to check out the Authentic Woman Experience, go to AuthenticSF.com. Check out the women’s work. And if you know a man who happens to want to take his relating deeper, he can check out the men’s work, the Authentic Man Program. And anyone can just shoot us an email at [email protected].
Alissa: Perfect. And you guys are available as well for private coaching, yeah?
Decker: We are. But to varying degrees.
Kendra: Depending on our caseloads at the moment.
Decker: If someone is interested in one-on-one work, and taking a deeper look at what’s possible for them and what may be in the way, we’re available for that as well. Again, if you want to check out coaching, send us an email at [email protected].
Alissa: Perfect. Thank you so much for your time, your insight.
Kendra: And thank you so much for having us. This was just a blast. I really enjoyed it.
Alissa: Thank you. It’s my pleasure. So we’ll talk soon. Thank you. This is Alissa signing off with Just For Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. See you next time.