Episode 9 - Creating Collaborative Cultures: Tapping the Genius of Your Teams with Jason Gore

Creating Collaborative Cultures: Tapping the Genius of Your Teams
with Jason Gore

Announcer:  This program is brought to you by personallifemedia.com

This is part one of a two-part program.

MARK LEWIS: Welcome to “Money Mission and Meaning”, passion at work, purpose at play, where we explore how we can integrate our personal values and professional skills to create pleasure and profit in the business of life.  I’m your host, Mark Michael Lewis, CEO of Smart Energy Enterprises, Incorporated, ‘SEEinc’ a beautiful future now.  Our guest today is Jason Scott Gore, corporate consultant specializing in creating collaborative cultures that reveal and release the genius of your team.  Jason has an MBA from Haas Business School in Berkeley, and has worked with major corporations around the world, including the GAP, SBC, Cisco, and the US Armed Forces.  In our previous interview with Jason we discussed negotiation and the key skills you could learn.  In today’s episode we’ll learn the six steps to creating a collaborative culture, and how you can apply them in your life and in your family.  Join us as we learn how to create environments that bring out the best in ourselves and in others.

So, Jason, in the last episode we talked about the process in negotiations and some key skills that were involved with it.  As we move into this next episode I want to talk about what it is that you do that goes beyond negotiation.  Instead of teaching the skills to different companies, I know that you actually work with the company to actually change the culture.  You work toward a context or a culture of collaboration, and I know you teach a program called “The Collaborative Way”.  Can you give us a sense… what’s the difference between the work you do in negotiation and the work you do on collaboration?

JASON GORE: I see them as completely different, both in the content, because in negotiation you’re oftentimes teaching a one-time negotiation, or negotiating something together, where you end up with a commitment.  Whereas collaboration is a much wider skill-set, that is all about, “How can we as a team produce an outcome or a result that really maximizes the potential, maximizes the skill sets, and the value that this team can produce?”  Also in their implementation they’re completely different.  On the negotiation front, I’m either conducting a negotiation, or teaching one or two-day workshops, it’s usually two-day workshops in negotiation, whereas on collaboration it takes a much longer time, because teaching the skills is not enough.  The goal on the collaboration side of the coin is to get those skills into practice, and be working with the executives for usually six to eight months, until they’re really living the collaborative practices, before teaching the rest of the organization.  They basically want the executives to be walking the talk, and then roll out these collaborative methodologies across the rest of the organization.  So on the collaboration front it’s a much bigger investment, to create a collaborative culture, than it would be to teach people negotiation skills.

MARK LEWIS: Yes, it sounds quite different.  So you work with executives, for say half a year, so that they can, as you say, “Start walking the talk.”  Well, what kind of ‘talk’ is it that you want them to walk?  What does it mean to have a collaborative culture?  What is collaboration?

JASON GORE: Well, collaboration is essentially working together as a team to produce a result.  And the collaborative way, which is the main methodology that I teach, is essentially a designed way of working together, that garners the motivation, the spirit, the intelligence, that imagination, of a team, and in fact a whole organization.  So a lot of what we talk about is, “How do we want to work together as a team?  What are the standards that we want to uphold as a team, in terms of how we’re working together?  How do we want to conduct meetings?  How do we want to relate to the commitments that we make to each other?  What culture are we creating and what are we doing together?”

MARK LEWIS: So it sounds like you’re not teaching them so much specific skills, like you would a negotiation.  It’s more about how to work together through time to harness each other’s skills.  Is there like a pattern or a structure to it?

JASON GORE: Yes, you could structure it in many ways, but the collaborative way is structured with six core practices that we teach the executives one at a time, and we call them practices very intentionally, because of example one of the practices is called ‘listening generously’.  There is no such thing as a perfect listener.  I’ve been teaching listening and listening skills, and active listening, inside of other programs for years and years, and I catch myself not listening all the time.  So it’s a practice, of ‘how do you listen to this’, and noticing when you don’t listen or when you’re not inside of that practice, and then actually stepping back into the practice.  So it’s something that needs to be ingrained through time.

MARK LEWIS: Right.  So you say that there are six different practices.  Could you go through them one at a time, kind of give people an idea of what those are, how they might begin to use it in their organization, or I imagine it would also work in a family or any other context.

JASON GORE: I’d be happy to, Mark.  And yes, I think that these practices are somewhat universal, in that I teach them both to corporation that are white collar; I spend a lot of time on manufacturing floors, copper manufacturing, cast and dies, where you’re also teaching people e that are working with their hands every day, in the hot iron, so to speak.  I also work with the Black Rock City, LLC, and the Burning Man organization, to teach those same skills there.  I’ve worked with a lot of inter-faith councils and a lot of action, Christian Inter-Faith Council, things like that.  It seems that everybody can benefit and produce more value as a team if they implement these practices.

MARK LEWIS: Are they more of the ‘common sense’ that isn’t quite so common?

JASON GORE: Pretty much, but not with the big ‘aha’; isn’t that the big win on the collaboration front?  It’s more about ingraining it into how you’re interacting on a daily basis.

MARK LEWIS: Can you go through the six steps?  You talked about ‘generous listening’; I assume that’s one of the six.

JASON GORE: And generous listening is all about really actually hearing what the other person has to say.  So many times I see managers g into a meeting, and let’s say someone’s really pissed because they didn’t get what they want, and they go into the meeting and go, “You know, I can’t believe you did this again!  You were late by two weeks.  I didn’t get what I wanted; the client left, and I’m pissed off.”  And then they’ll find out that they actually never sent the email asking for what they want.

MARK LEWIS: Oh, ouch!

JASON GORE: Or some other thing that didn’t quite happen, and it was really their fault.  And they feel, and justifiable so, not so good, and so they go into the conversation basically not listening at all.  And the collaborative way just really encourages you to find out what’s going on with people around you before you come at them that way, so in that case it would be, “Hey, you know I thought you had a commitment to me to get those done two weeks ago.  What was your perspective on that?”  And it saves managers a lot of embarrassment and a lot of lost time cleaning up relationships that they’ve damaged because they actually didn’t listen.  And also on the innovation front, you can’t innovate as a corporation; you can’t innovate as a team if you’re actually not listening to people’s ideas.  I spent the first five years of my career largely interviewing people inside of a large corporation, summarizing everything that I heard, giving it to the CEO or c-level executive, and the c-level executive responding to me, thinking that I’m absolutely brilliant.

MARK LEWIS: Because you’re actually listening.

JASON GORE: And that was all I was doing.  I mean I spent five years going, “Why can’t you just ask your people what they think?”  And it often took an outside consultant to come in and capture all that information from all these different organizations and summarize it for them to actually hear it.

MARK LEWIS: Because the consultant actually had engrained that practice.

JASON GORE: And also, they paid us enough money that they would actually listen to us.

MARK LEWIS:  Well, I suppose that helps.  Okay, so there’s ‘generous listening’.  What’s another of the steps in the ‘the collaborative way’?

JASON GORE: Well I think before anything, you have to actually know what you want to accomplish.  What are you up to?  I see so much wasted time and effort because people really just don’t get clear about what they’re doing here.  And meetings in particular, so much meeting time is wasted, because the meeting is called, and like each person is sharing information but nothing actually happens, rather than starting off the meeting by saying, “Ok, we’re here to make a decision, and the decision is ‘x, y, and z.’” Or, “We’re here because we need to be all on the same page and get aligned about what’s happening.  So let’s listen in that way.”  Most organizations, especially small and medium-sized companies, are not really clear on what they’re trying to accomplish.  And so I often like to work with executives as a team in a retreat setting for a couple days, and have them get clear about what it is they want to accomplish, what are their metrics and goals that they’re going to be used to measure that accomplishment, and what’s the strategy to get there.  Because then you have a basis to collaborate.  I’m not really interested in collaboration for collaboration’s sake.  I’m interested in helping teams produce results.

MARK LEWIS:  Right.  Okay, so you’ve got ‘generous listening’; you’ve got…

JASON GORE: What we call the ‘up to mark’… what are you ‘up to’?

MARK LEWIS: What are you up to?  What do you mean?

JASON GORE: What are we up to as a team?  What are we trying to accomplish, what’s our focus?  But our shorthand is ‘up to’.

MARK LEWIS: Okay, great.  So you’ve got ‘generous listening’ and ‘up to’.

JASON GORE: Exactly.

MARK LEWIS: Fantastic.  What’s a third?

JASON GORE: ‘Speaking straight’.  And this is actually the toughest one to really ingrain inside of an organization.  Because it’s scary to speak up.  And it’s oftentimes when people do speak up they feel like they get shut down.  And so speaking straight is not only about stepping in and sharing your opinion, but it’s also stepping in and sharing your opinion in a way that’s going to forward the action.  So much of what is said is said in a way that doesn’t actually forward what’s going on.  It doesn’t look at what the team is trying to accomplish and speak into that.  And so a lot of times, my role as a facilitator is simply to redirect conversations that are going awry because people are speaking to share their opinions but not inside of a format where the opinion can be heard, or they’re dumping their ideas onto a group of people without really thinking about, “Well, what’s going to take this meeting and make it better, make it forward what we are trying to accomplish and what we’re trying to do together?”

MARK LEWIS: Yeah, what we’re up to.  Alright, so you get what you’re up to and then you can begin to speak straight, not only about what you’re really thinking, but in the context of where we’re trying to get to, how can I speak what I’m feeling, what I’m thinking, what I want to ass to the conversation in a way that actually furthers what we’re up to.

JASON GORE: Exactly.  And as a manager, speaking straight is also about giving permission to other people to share their ideas.  Almost every manager and executive that I’ve met wants to know people’s ideas, but then when ideas are shared, they shut them down, “Oh that’s a stupid idea; that will never work.” 

MARK LEWIS: “Oh gosh I’m so excited to share my next idea; thank you so much.”

JASON GORE: What’s going to happen next time around?  So speaking straight is about also giving permission for other people to speak straight, and that requires, once again, generous listening, which is why we often start there.

MARK LEWIS: Right.

JASON GORE: And that, going back to generous listening for a second, if someone shares an idea that you think is really dumb, it’s like, okay, what in that idea is actually valuable?  Where are they coming from by sharing  it?  At a minimum, they’re coming to you to share that commitment because they are committed to something, so find out what they’re committed to.  And that’s habit, so I mean it’s just how you listen to the conversation, and you could always look at and listen for the little tiny things that are actually good in what they’re sharing.

MARK LEWIS: So when you listen generously, you actually create that straight-speaking environment, so when you listen generously you create a space where people can speak straight.  So if you shut somebody down and say, “Oh that’s stupid,” and things like that, that’s not listening generously.  It’s not listening for what they have to ass to the conversation, and when you listen generously that allows them and creates the space for them to speak straight.

JASON GORE: Exactly.

MARK LEWIS: Okay, great; this is great.  I know we’ve got three more.  I want to take a quick break.  When we come back, we’ll get into the next three principles of the ‘collaborative way’, and talk about what it means to create a culture of collaboration and what that makes possible for your organization and for the individuals involved.  This is Mark Michael Lewis; this is “Money Mission and Meaning” and I’m speaking with Jason Scott Gore, collaborative consultant and trainer.  We’ll be right back.

[break]

MARK LEWIS: And we’re back with collaborative consultant Jason Scott Gore on “Money Mission and Meaning”.  So, Jason, you’re talking about the first three principles of the six principles of the ‘collaborative way’.  It seems like there’s be three more… perhaps you’d be willing to share those as well.

JASON GORE: [Pleased to.]

MARK LEWIS: Fantastic; so what would the fourth one be?

JASON GORE: The fourth one we title ‘being for each other’.

MARK LEWIS: ‘Being for each other’?

JASON GORE: Yeah, you’re really like, watching out for your teammate, encouraging each other.  It’s amazing to me how little encouragement actually happens inside of teams.  So for example, if someone comes to you and says, “Oh man, I can’t do this,” oftentimes people go, “Oh yeah, yeah.  Yeah, you can; of course you can.”  But it’s kind of like off the cuff but it’s not really passionate.  People rarely turn to each other and say, “Wow you know I’ve actually seen you do something like this before and I really believe that you can do this.”  And how many times do managers say that to their team members, and really encourage them and create a relationship for them to check in and get support?  The other thing is, about ‘being for each other’, is looking for positive intent.  So many times people come into a problem resolution conversation, something happened and it didn’t go so well, really looking for what’s wrong?  And it gets the conversation off to a bad foot, bad start, because most people, what they really want, is to do a good job, especially as you get into middle management and above.  You’re dealing with people that really, really want to accomplish and satisfy the people around them.  And so when they don’t, it’s not because they had a bad intent, not always, not usually at least; it’s because something happened that caused the result to be less than what was expected.  And yet most managers will begin the conversation like, “It’s your fault; you did this intentionally,” and it’s often just not a good way to start off the conversation.  If someone really did have a positive intention, their motivation just went out the window.

MARK LEWIS: This is kind of like going back to another version of ‘generous listening’.  If you come in and say, “Look, you know you screwed up here,” it shuts down the conversation and you lose that ability to be really for the person.  So, if you were being for the person, what’s you’d look for is some kind of, “What did you do right?”  Or, “What was your intention with this?”

JASON GORE: Exactly.  Like really get in there and say, “Hey, you did something that had a negative impact; I want to share that impact, let you know what it is, because I’m supporting you in your career.”  Oftentimes what happens is if an executive or a manager doesn’t get what they want, they essentially cut that person out.  They don’t tell that person that they weren’t satisfied; in the future they just go somewhere else.  At the end of the day, most executives use their four or five people that they can really count on to get something done, and the rest of the forty or fifty people that get used, they don’t use as well.  It’s like trying to run an organization with one leg tied, or inside of a bag; you’re not really enabling the organization to maximize what it could accomplish.  So, when instead of cutting that person out, and basically sealing the fate of that person’s career because you’re not telling them what they did wrong, being ‘for’ each other is actually about approaching that person, and for the sake of their good, for the sake of their career, telling them what’s going on.  I’m not saying that there are not also times to fire people.  There are!  If a person can’t perform, then maybe it is time to let them go or move them into another position.  But you could do that in a way that is actually supporting their careers.  I mean do you want to let someone wallow inside of underperformance for years and years, or do you want to let them know, hey that underperforming… and it’s either you’ve got to fix this and do this, or maybe this isn’t the best opportunity for you.

MARK LEWIS: Right, and if you’re for them, and you’re actually going out and telling them, again, ‘speaking straight’ to them, about what it is they’re doing or not doing, then it’s not a surprise.  It’s not like, “Oh okay, I just don’t deal with them.  Don’t deal with them; don’t deal with them; they can’t handle it, and then after a period of time go, “You know what?  He’s a liability, or she’s a liability; I have to get rid of them.”   You go out and say, “Hay look, here’s what’s going on.  Step up, and if you can’t step up, after we’ve done this, then we let you go.”  But it’s a completely different conversation.  Is that…

JASON GORE: Pretty much.  Most managers just wait until it’s too late to actually do anything to solve the problem.  And they’re not utilizing their team.  So it’s when you’re not satisfied, let someone know, and have a conversation about it.

MARK LEWIS: Right, and I mean the great thing about that, which you could say is a basic principle throughout all the business ideas I’ve learned, in terms of relationship, although the principle seems to be called ‘being for someone’, right?  And so when you’re for someone, you’re actually looking for what’s in their best interest, you’re also solving problems.  Problems need solutions, like, “Here’s something I have to give you, for you.”  But what that ends up doing, it ends up giving that person a chance to really step up and add back to the organization, so now… I love the example that you use, “I’ve got four or five executives, and I can count on them.”  So I use them, perhaps too much.  Right, they get overworked; they get burnt out.  And all the other people who could be bringing their talent, their positive intent, their skills, don’t get used.

JASON GORE: Exactly.  And so the only reward of doing a good job is you get more work.  And the people that are underperforming, they get to continue to underperform and not take on a load, and so there’s often a disbalance in the organization, or an imbalance, that causes a lot of frustration where people who are carrying the burden really see the people that aren’t.  And the people that aren’t, also feel that, and know that, and they feel undervalued.  Because no one’s giving them the feedback that they need to succeed.

MARK LEWIS: And they don’t know what to do to fix that, and the overall organization of the talent that’s available is being completely underutilized or overutilized in a way that isn’t tapping into what’s possible.  And so it sounds like part of the collaborative culture that you’re creating… I love how you said earlier, that you’re not interested in collaboration for collaboration’s sake.  It’s kind of like you said around negotiation, “It’s not about being nice.  It’s about getting what you want in a way that preserves the relationship and has people willing to actually fulfill the agreements.”  Well, it sounds like with this collaboration process; it’s really about tapping into the genius, the brilliance of the people who are involved in creating the context in which they really want to give their best, and people work together.

JASON GORE: Exactly.

MARK LEWIS: Okay, so what’s the next one?

JASON GORE: The next one is ‘honoring commitments’.  Now this is really where you get into action, and get a team into action, is by creating commitments.  Now unfortunately, somehow or another, our culture has a relationship to commitments as if it’s something that you do it or you don’t do it, and if you do it you get rewarded, and if you don’t so it you get punished.

MARK LEWIS: Or something wrong with you.

JASON GORE:  Now I see commitments as something very different.  A commitment is a tool or technique that we use to get into agreement about what’s going to happen in the future.  If we’re trying to create a future, if we’re up to something big, we need to have those agreements in place, so that we know what’s going on inside the organization.  Now unfortunately, most people don’t do commitments very well.  The person who’s making the commitment, there’s oftentimes no accountability to them actually fulfilling or following through on it.  So high performers will follow through, and low performance might not; they might just forget about it; it just never comes back.  And when the commitments are made, they’re not made with clarity.  I often joke that I could probably produce a lot of value if all I did was send parrots out to each meeting, and all the parrots did was ask, “By when?”  By when is that going to get done?  By when?  Because until you put a date on a specific commitment, and scope out what it is that you’re promising, there is no commitment.  There is no way you can make an agreement unless you know what it is you’re agreeing to.

MARK LEWIS: Right.  So again, I’m noticing the inter-dimensional relationship between these different practices.  Right?  It’s like, when you know what you’re up to, once you decide what you’re up to, you can create an agreement or commitment to actually fulfill on that.  But if you try to create a commitment when you’re really not clear what you’re up to, then you end up creating something that sounds like a commitment, “Hey!  I committed to that; they committed to it.”  But there’s no agreement; there’s no accountability, and so nothing happens and you’re left going, “Well, see that person just screwed up,” rather than… and again it goes back to that ‘listening generously’ thing, “Well, I never actually gave you the particular task that you were supposed to do.  You committed to something that was different than what I was expecting, and now you’re wrong, and…” So it just leaves that whole cycle.

JASON GORE: Indeed.  And you know most people complain about meetings all the time, and I honestly agree with them, because most meetings are not effective, and a large part about making a meeting effective is to be able to end the meeting knowing what commitments were made, who made them, and to whom they made them, who’s going to be the receiver of that commitment, to know that they could say, “Yes, this commitment has been met,” and for everybody to really know that those commitments are going to be honored.  The other side of honored commitments is the receiver responsibility.

MARK LEWIS: And this is the accountability piece for… I’m guessing.

JASON GORE: In part.  So, let’s say that I’m a manager and someone makes a commitment to me.  Most managers think that’s his commitment, and if he blows it, then I’m going to let him have it.  Let’s say that we’re a week and a half into a commitment that’s due in another half week; a lot of managers will sit back and watch.  They’ll go, “You know, this guy isn’t all that good.  He’s going to blow this one too, isn’t he?”

MARK LEWIS: Ouch!

JASON GORE: And they just kind of watch, and when the person doesn’t meet their commitment, they go, “Yep, I was right.”  And then what do they do?  They cut that person out and they go back to the four or five people that they can trust, and they wonder why they can’t get anything done.  And they’re always complaining about, “I can’t get good people.  I can only rely on a few people.  Yet I’m overwhelmed.”  Well in part that’s because they’re not building their team.  So honoring commitments from the receiver perspective is also about saying, “If I don’t think this commitment is going to be met, it’s my responsibility to go and talk to that person.  Because honoring commitments is about, “I have a commitment that this thing is going to happen in the future.  Yes, you’re the performer on it, and you’ve agreed with me that you’re going to do it, but it’s my commitment that this is going to happen, and so it’s a partnership.  What are the resources that you need?  What can I offer in terms of managerial skills, in terms of training, in terms of other resources from outside the organization, or form people that you might need to get your job done?”  And to approach that person and find out what he might need to get a job done.  Because if you’re worried about it not getting done, and you just wait, 1) you’re not going to get what you want, and 2) you’re not supporting that person and actually accomplishing the goal.

MARK LEWIS: Right.  And it comes back to the first thing you said about it, which is the shift in understanding what a commitment is.  Is a commitment something that you say, and then you either fail or you succeed at?  Or is a commitment something, an agreement that we make in order to accomplish something?  And we’re both focused on the accomplishment of the thing, rather than whether or not I can praise you or I can punish you for it.

JASON GORE: Exactly.  And I would actually go so far as to say that the success of an organization can be directly linked to how well people make and fulfill commitments to each other.  And when you see most organizations suffer, it’s primarily because that commitment structure is not working well.

MARK LEWIS: Right.  And I can imagine it’s not working well on both sides.  Right?  The person making the commitment might not be following through on it, but the person who’s receiving the commitment is no thinking about the end result, and, to bring it back again, ‘speaking straight’ to the person, and ‘being for them’ about having them succeed on the commitment, such that they can train them and train their team to be able to perform, and make stronger and stronger commitments.

JASON GORE: Exactly.  Let me tell you a quick story.  I was brought into a major retail organization, because they were having trouble with producing clothing in a timely manner.

MARK LEWIS: Which would be a problem for a clothing manufacturer.

JASON GORE: Yeah.  I mean each season was like about a 52-week season, let’s say.  And they were taking about a year from the time they started with design to the time they actually got clothing on the shelf.  And I’m just kind of making up ‘52’ because it’s a nice round number.  That’s often considered to be a highly confidential metric for a lot of retailers.

MARK LEWIS: I see.  So we’re making up the number ‘52’.

JASON GORE: Exactly. 

MARK LEWIS: Excellent.

JASON GORE: So we got into it, and they were having trouble with this, so all I did with them was we spent two days, and we mapped out, instead of what they had to do and all the actions that each team had to make, we mapped out what were the commitments to each other across teams.  And we spent two days as a cross-functional team, and just mapped that out, up on the wall, and as compared to a normal business process chart, which would be maybe a couple hundred thousand boxes, this was like maybe 40 boxes.  And what would happen would be, the people would be talking in the meeting, and I remember this one time, we were talking about a specific meeting and what was the goal of that meeting, what were you up to inside of that meeting?  And one person said we’re here to do ‘x, y, and z’, and another person said, “Oh my God, that’s what that meeting is for?  I didn’t know that.”  And the first person said, “Yeah, you never show up, so we never get our job done.”  And the second person said, “Oh my God!  Like I had no idea that that was what this meeting was about.  Somehow inside of the world of any of the activities that I’m supposed to perform, the whole purpose of that meeting got lost.”  And so they got to clarify all these places where they were kind of making commitments into the nether and doing reports that no one read, and got to really clarify, “Oh who is this report for?  Who’s actually reading this, so that I could go talk to that person and make changes?”  And the result will be that they’ll be more satisfied at the end of the day.

MARK LEWIS:  Alright.  So I’m noticing in ‘honoring commitments’, when you bring in both sides of the commitment, the person making the commitment and the person receiving the commitment, all of a sudden the relationship’s back, the meaning, the purpose of the commitment is present, whereas if it’s just one side of the commitment, I can fulfill my side of the commitment and have it wrong and give you something you don’t need, and then you don’t get what you need, you make a commitment to somebody else, and so when you take this idea of honoring commitments, what you do is you bring both people together on the same page.  They can find out, “Oh, what are we really about here?”  Again, “What’s the result we’re trying to achieve, and how can we partner for that,” rather than, “How can you do your thing and I can judge you as right or wrong for doing it?”

JASON GORE: Right.  And at a certain point in time, in certain organizations, that command and control style may still be appropriate.  But in today’s environment that’s extremely fast-paced, that’s constantly changing, that’s using the people’s intelligence in ways that we’ve never used all that intelligence, it just doesn’t… that command and control breaks down, and that level of partnership really needs to shift into this more collaborative approach, for you to produce as a manager the maximum value that your team can produce.

MARK LEWIS: Right.  Because again, collaboration isn’t about collaboration.  It’s about results.

JASON GORE: Exactly.

MARK LEWIS: Great.  And on that note, once again, Jason was providing such great information we didn’t want to cut him short, so we’re splitting this into two episodes.  Simply go to the next episode to hear the sixth and crowning step of the collaboration process, that brings them all together into a synergistic whole, and learn more about this fascinating gentleman.  Talk to you soon.

For more information on Jason Scott Gore and how you might use his Collaborative Way training and facilitation in your own organization, or just benefit from the newsletter, go to www.CollaborativeWay.com. For text and transcripts of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media Network, please visit our website at www.PersonalLifeMedia.com.  I’m your host, Mark Michael Lewis, CEO of Smart Energy Enterprises, ‘SEEinc’ a beautiful future now.  And that brings us to the end of our show.  Thanks for listening and join us next week on “Money Mission and Meaning”, passion at work, purpose at play, as we interview cutting edge business leaders who are committed to making a positive difference in the world, about the motivation and practical ideas that create pleasure and profit in the business of life.

This concludes Part One.  The interview will be continued in the next episode of this show.

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