Getting It On: Interview with Paul Joannides
On the Minds of Men
Dr. Lori Buckley

Episode 3 - Getting It On: Interview with Paul Joannides

Dr. Lori Buckley interviews Paul Joannides, author of The Guide to Getting it On. Paul knows what it takes to be a great lover, and tells all in his wonderful, fun to read book. In this episode Paul talks about the difference between mastrub**ion and partner sex, and addresses finger f***ing misconceptions that every man needs to know. Dr. Lori and Paul also discuss the importance of sexual signals, and how tension can be good for your sex life.



Weekly Exercise

Pleasurable Touch Exercise
On the minds of Men
By Dr. Lori Buckley

Sensual touch is a pleasurable way to explore and enhance intimacy.  The goal of this exercise is experience pleasure, not goal oriented sex, orgasm or even sexual arousal.  While the focus of this exercise is on sensual and pleasurable touch, you may experience sexual arousal.  Enjoy it and relish in it…don’t act on it.  And remember that this is not a massage.  Massage is a form a healing touch.  This is sensual touch.

You will take turns.  First you will be the GIVER and your partner will be the RECEIVER.  Then you will switch roles.

Schedule a day or night that you and your partner will complete this exercise.  While I appreciate how busy and tired you may be, I strongly encourage you to make this exercise a priority.  Forget your email and turn off the T.V.  Nothing is more important than devoting this time -60 minutes- to your partner and your relationship.

AS THE GIVER:  Create a sensual and comfortable environment where you won’t be distracted or disturbed.  Light a candle or two and have some lotion or massage oil available and be creative.  Experiment with different strokes and pressure.  Use your fingers, hands, and mouth.  Clothing is optional.

Spend 10-15 minutes each on the back and front of your partner’s body.  Explore your partner’s entire body from his/her head to his/her toes without touching their breasts and genitals.  Remember-this exercise is not sexual and should not culminate with intercourse.

Focus on the pleasure you’re experiencing touching your partner’s body…the feel of his/her skin, and the softness and firmness of your partner’s body.  Be completely present.  Focus only on the pleasure you feel as you touch your partner’ body.  Don’t talk.

AS THE RECEIVER:  Relax and enjoy.  You may choose to be naked or wear underwear.  Focus on the feel of your partner’s touch.  Be completely present.  Do not talk or give feedback to your partner.  You and your partner’s goal is to each experience your own pleasure.  However, if a certain kind of touch feels painful or unpleasant, let your partner know in a positive, non-threatening way how to change it.  For example:  “could you please touch me more softly”. 

VARIATIONS: Next time you may choose to focus on or include genitals, and/or add communication by using this exercise as a way to discover new erogenous zones and pleasure points for your partner.

Getting It On: Interview with Paul Joannides

Announcer: This program is intended for mature audiences only.


Dr. Lori Buckley: Hi.  You're listening to ‘On the Minds of Men’ – uncensored sex talk with me, your host Dr. Lori Buckley.  I am so glad you joined us today because we have a wonderful guest in store, Paul Joannides, the author of ‘The Guide to Getting It On’.  So you want to stay tuned.  And you absolutely want to stay to the end when I'm going to give you an exercise that you can do at home tonight that's going to increase your intimacy and intensity in your lovemaking.


Dr. Lori Buckley: You said, “It doesn't matter what you have in your pants if there's nothing in your brain to connect it to.” 

Dr. Lori Buckley: I’m going to start by wanting to ask you and hear about what compelled you to write this book, to write this really comprehensive and wonderful book about sex.

Paul Joannides: I usually respond that it was revenge for eight years in Catholic school.

Dr. Lori Buckley: How so?  What happened in Catholic school, Paul?

Paul Joannides: It's what's didn't happen. [Laughs]

Dr. Lori Buckley:  OK!  [Laughs]

[Music ends]

Dr. Lori Buckley: Joining me today is my friend and sidekick Mark Phelan.  Hey, how are you doing Mark?

Mark Phelan: Hello, Dr. Buckley.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Hello there.  So, I am wondering, what do you think about today’s show?

Mark Phelan:  The Guide to Getting It On - now there is a book that could have come in so handy for me years and years ago.  And actually still to this day I could learn new things.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, you know, it's interesting about sex.  There are always new things to learn.  Just when we think that we've got it down we realize that there is more information and certainly a lot more exciting and wonderful things to incorporate into our sex lives.

So what is it that you really want to learn the most when you open up this guide?

Mark Phelan: I immediately pictured myself like a senior in high school.  If I had one of the lucky guys that could sit down and read this book, their first date is going to transform their lives.  I think of the mistakes and the awkwardness I felt.  If I had had this kind of information that would have been giving me that level of confidence.  I would have pretended I was James Bond, for crying out loud.  I would have been just scoring at will.


Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, just think your whole life would have been different.  You wouldn't have needed glasses - all of the things that would have been different in your life.

Well listeners, you'll be glad to know that you have this book, ‘The Guide to Getting It On’, by Paul Joannides.  He's my guest today.  Again, if you want to send any questions or comments to myself or my friend Mark, please write to [email protected].

[Music ends]


Dr. Lori Buckley: Welcome to ‘On the Minds of Men’, uncensored sex talk with me, your host Dr. Lori Buckley.  Today on the show we are talking about getting it on.  Our guest today is Paul Joannides, who is the author of ‘The Guide to Getting It On’.

‘The Guide to Getting It On’ is one of my favorite sex books.  It's considered by many to be the best sex book ever written.  I would agree.  It's has won numerous awards, including the Ben Franklin Book Award.  It's been translated into 13 different languages.

‘The Guide’ is filled with wonderful information, covering all aspects of human sexuality.  The best part about it, I think, is that other than all of the wonderful information, it really makes you laugh out loud.  It's just an entertaining, wonderful book about sex.

You've got 71 chapters.  And in those chapters there are such things as ‘Better Mating Through Internet Dating’, ‘Beyond Vanilla’, ‘Explaining Sex to Kids’, and ‘Nipples Nipples Nipples’ - a very popular chapter.  It's just a wonderful book.

So welcome Paul.

Paul Joannides: Hello, thank you Lori.

Dr. Lori Buckley: You know, I'm really excited to have you here with us today, because I know that you have so much information.  And I know our listeners want to hear your advice and guidance on how to be a great lover and maybe some ways to get it on more often.

So I'm going to start by, wanting to ask you and hear about what compelled you to write this really comprehensive and wonderful book about sex?

Paul Joannides: I usually respond that it was revenge for eight years in Catholic school.

Dr. Lori Buckley: How so?  What happened in Catholic school, Paul?

Paul Joannides: It's what's didn't happen. [Laughs]

Dr. Lori Buckley:  OK!  [Laughs] But, you were given some messages that you thought you wanted to avoid other people from having to deal with in their life, or what was the compelling factor?

Paul Joannides: It was the selling of procreative sex as the only kind of sex.  Anything else was a sin.

Dr. Lori Buckley:  And how did you figure out that there was a different kind of sex?

Paul Joannides: Yeah, so if it didn't involve a sperm heading on a collision course with an egg then it was a sin.  That kind of messes with a young man's mind.

Dr. Lori Buckley:  It messed with yours in a really positive way?

Paul Joannides: There are so many awful things in life.  It was one of the nice things.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah.  It definitely is really one of the best things; I would say definitely in the top three.

Paul Joannides: What are your other two?  Would one be chocolate?

Dr. Lori Buckley:  [laughs] I’m supposed to be interviewing you.  Let's see, other two?  I don't know.  You know, food would probably be up there.  It's all kind of sensuous and wonderful, though.

But you know what you say is also important when you say it's the nice thing.  It can be one of the top three or even the top one.  But at the same time, it can be one of the most problematic things in our life.

Paul Joannides: Well that would be because it can be very attached to the emotions, right?

Dr. Lori Buckley: Ideally, I think.  I think there are a lot of people who have sex, and they don't consider their emotions or have any.

Paul Joannides: You know, that's great if you can get away with it.  I've never been able to.  I keep trying. [Laughs]

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, I guess there are people who do it and certainly that is a choice.  But you wrote something in your book, and I think this is relevant here.  You said, “It doesn't matter what you have in your pants if there's nothing in your brain to connect it to.”  Can you explain what you mean by that?

Paul Joannides:  OK, let's look at what we tend to look at.  Now in terms of sex, how does a younger person define it?  For the guy who is downloading porn on the Internet it's probably defined by genitals mostly, I would think.

That's the image you get when you're downloading porn on the Internet.  And I don't think you get much help with how it interfaces with the emotional part of a relationship, how it can increase its or decrease it.  We just don't get much help in that area.

Hopefully, that's what the book helps with a little bit.  And it helps with helping you be able to talk to a partner about it.

I'm just looking through my spam right now for the day.  OK, what do I have here?  Boom.  Subject: The Virgin Penetrator.  I guess that's supposed to be us guys, right?

Dr. Lori Buckley: No!

Paul Joannides: And then one of the other - well, if I look through my spam filter, boom, boom, boom - let's see, I can be 3 inches longer.  Or I can be an inch and a half longer.  Or I can be a super guy.  “Here – Men listen to me.  Give yourself 3 inches longer.  Here - do you want to flabbergast her?  Try a penis enlarge patch.”

Dr. Lori Buckley: Now we know this is I don't know if it's a multimillion or billion-dollar business.  I think it might be a billion-dollar business.  So clearly there is some idea here that to be a good lover or to be a man you need to have a bigger penis.  If that were the answer actually it might even be simpler.


Dr. Lori Buckley: But we know it actually is much more complicated than that.  I understand what you're saying when you talk about the emotional part.  But I think there are probably a lot of our listeners who don't get why that is important to be emotionally connected to somebody when you're having sex with them.

Paul Joannides: Oh, because you will have hell to pay if you ignore that issue. [Laughs]

Dr. Lori Buckley: It's a tough one.

Paul Joannides: It's a tough one.  I guess part of the question is where do you make the leap from jerking off to having sex with someone else?  Is having sex with someone else just another way of getting off and jerking off?  And if it is, then I think you're kind of ahead of the game just to find a new lotion or something.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, right because if you don't have the emotional thing, maybe when there is a partner involved, I'm thinking about some of the things that can get in the way of enjoying.  Even if you just want to ejaculate, even from enjoying that when there is a partner involved, they could interfere with that in a negative way.

Paul Joannides: In big in negative ways.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah.  It's so complicated.  And I think this is what's so great about your book because sex is complicated.  You have 71 chapters.  I think that you would probably agree that you could probably add many more and there would still be more information that you could give.

But I do think that the beauty of your book and what is important for our listeners to know is that there really is no how to.  But maybe there are ways to approach it so you can find out what is best for you and your partner.

Paul Joannides: Yeah.  It's interesting.  Another end of the spectrum is some guy saying, “All right!”  And he's talking about some guy who does wants to use his partner as a masturbation aid.  And he's saying, “I don't do that at all.  I do just the opposite.  I am so focused on giving her an orgasm.”

To me there is not much difference, because it's still about your agenda for her or your agenda for you.  It isn't about, what does she need from this?

Dr. Lori Buckley: I get what you're saying, right, right.  So it's still all kind of self-focused and not about pleasure so much.

Paul Joannides: No, orgasm counting is another form of pinball, isn't it?

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, and anxiety.

Paul Joannides: Yeah.  And it puts a lot of anxiety on her as well.  She's got to be this orgasmatron, who spits them out with every three thrusts of yours, and fawns over you and says, “God you are the best I've ever had!”

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, right.  And then when she has that pressure of course she's probably not going to have any orgasms anyway.

Paul Joannides: Yeah, and then she starts faking them. 

Dr. Lori Buckley: So here's a question I have for you - what is one thing that men can do, if there is one thing, but let's see if we can come up with something that men can do to become a better lover?

Paul Joannides: Well, I keep hearing the word listen.  I think, ask and listen.  Now, we've got a problem here because some women, you can ask until you're blue in the face and they are not going to give you a clue.  Part of it is because the lot of them don't know themselves.  They don't know their own bodies.  The last thing they want you to do is ask them about that, even though you're trying to say, “Look, if you can teach me about your body then we can have a better experience here.”

Dr. Lori Buckley: So what do you do?  What do you tell them?

Paul Joannides: That's a tough one.  If your partner is dead set against exploring her own levels of comfort and intimacy and you want to explore them, then that's - I don't know - then we call a Lori and say, “Do you have an appointment available?  We need some counseling here.  I need some help.”

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.  It's funny because all of the interviews that I do with people like yourself, who are experts in their field, whatever that means - I guess we are all our own expert - but who have some knowledge or information, it does come down to communication.

I find when people do come to see me that that's the one thing that people feel really uncomfortable about.  They know they are supposed to, I think, but they don't know how to go about that.  Do you have any suggestions of how to start a conversation?

Paul Joannides: Look in our culture at the words for a sec, OK.  If you look at most of the slang words that you would use, a lot of them are used for swearing.  A lot of them are used in anger.  So you are supposed to use these words, we spit out if someone cuts us off on the freeway, and you're supposed to say, “Here’s how I would like to fuck your cock”.

On my way to the interview someone cut me off.  And I said, “You cocksucker!”  So we don't have a particularly good vocabulary even in our culture.  On the other hand, what if you say, “Sweetheart, would you like cunnilingus tonight?”  Well that sounds about as exciting as, God, I don't know what!

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, that's not going to make her want you, I don't think.

Paul Joannides: Yeah, so just even having the words to talk about things about sex, we are really handicapped in our culture.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah.  You're absolutely right.  I love the ‘Dirty Words’ chapter in your book; that says really well, what you're saying.  It's true.  So it's either we go to the clinical side, which is really a turn off, not very romantic or sexy at all, and then the other end is words which actually can be kind of hot because of the way they are used.  But there are definitely the negative messages and connotations associated with them.  I don't even know if we are conscious of them.

Paul Joannides: And then take it beyond that.  We don't even really know how to describe it the women's genitals correctly.  We call everything down there a vagina.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.

Paul Joannides: Well, that's like calling New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts New York.  How do you even begin when we're not calling it the right thing?  And were not appreciating the different parts down there.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.  So let's give a little lesson right now, on the vulva.  Right?

Paul Joannides:  OK, Lori, will you go ahead and spread your legs for the listeners?

Dr. Lori Buckley:  OK.  Done.

Paul Joannides: And point away.

Dr. Lori Buckley:  [laughs] OK, well, there is the focus of the clitoris.  I think most men and women are now aware of the clitoris.  Would you agree?

Paul Joannides:  On the one hand aware of it, on the other hand, any three women can want you to deal with that little thing in three entirely different ways.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, or even 50 women in 50 different ways.

Paul Joannides: Yeah.  So the idea that, “Wow I'm going to get to my finger on that sucker and rub away” is not necessarily a great idea.

Dr. Lori Buckley: You're absolutely right.  As a matter of fact, I think that's something that a lot of men do.  They think, “Oh, this is it, this is the magic place, the magic button!”  So they go straight for that.  So what else should they be doing?

Paul Joannides: I'm sorry.  I didn't hear you.

Dr. Lori Buckley: What else should they be doing instead of going straight for the clitoris?

Paul Joannides:  Now, again, it's really awful to be talking about what you should be doing, because any situation is different.  It could be that on one particular night you and she might want to take hours just getting your clothes off.  And on another night, you may want to rip them off forgetting even a hint of foreplay and pound away.

So, situations, time, time of the month, all sorts of things intervene.  If you try to do everything the same way every time, that's not going to work either.  So a big part of it is learning how to read each other's signals.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Oh, so that's communication, but not necessarily verbal.  There are different kinds of communication and signals are a good one.

Paul Joannides: Yeah, sometimes that little - her fingertips going up and down your arm a certain way - that might be a very definite signal.

Dr. Lori Buckley: And so to learn those signals there could be a conversation or just an awareness.

Paul Joannides: Yeah.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, because I think we do as human men or women have patterns.  And what you're saying is, on the one hand we want to recognize those patterns and use them as cues or signals, and we also want to make sure that we don't stick with the same patterns over and over again.

Paul Joannides: Right.  Right.  Things are cyclic.  They change.  They vary.  What your experience was at work can have a heck of a lot to do with what you want to do in bed that night.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, so I agree with what you're saying.  ‘Should’ is always a dangerous word.  But we could probably say, should communicate, should be aware, should try different things.  Be adventurous.

Paul Joannides: Right.  And should be conscious maybe of tension building and the ability to build tension.  What is that about?  Let's say she's not in a dive on my clitoris kind of mood.  How do you build tension so that within however often or however long the clitoris is going to be screaming for you?  “Hey guy, come here, come here, come here!”  That's probably the great art.


Dr. Lori Buckley:  Yeah.  That is so true.  That's a piece that I think a lot of people miss.  On that note, I think what we're going to do really quickly is take a very short break.  I'm Dr. Lori.  I'm with Paul Joannides.  And we will be right back.

[Commercial break]


Dr. Lori Buckley: We are back.  You are listening to ‘On the Minds of Men’.  I'm Dr. Lori.  We're talking to Paul Joannides about getting it on.  And before the break we were talking about building tension.  Which is kind of what we did maybe during that break.  Well maybe a little, I don't know.

So building tension.  There is something so powerful about that.  Do you have any suggestions of maybe a way to do that?  I have an idea.

Paul Joannides: If you come home and let's say there are 20 things that need to be done.  She's overwhelmed.  And you go ahead and grab the vacuum cleaner, and do the carpets and clean the toilet and do all sorts of unpleasant things that relieve her of that burden.

For some women that can help a lot.  That can build a lot of tension in a good way.

Dr. Lori Buckley: The Art of seduction.  Yeah.

Paul Joannides: Other women - that's not going to work.  They're going to be pissed at you, and they are going to say,” You didn't do a good enough job!  I have to redo all of it”. 

So it depends on the relationship.  Maybe she's a hockey fan, maybe taking time to get tickets when her favorite hockey team is in town.  Maybe it's something much more simple.  Maybe it's a foot rub.  Instead of grabbing between her legs, take a heck of a lot of time rubbing her feet.  Some women enjoy having their hair brushed.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Again, we need to know what our partner likes.  The best way to do that is through awareness and communication. 

But I'm also thinking that's building up tension, and I think you're saying the same thing, but other words to put on it are, creating obstacles.  So rather than going straight for it, there is some obstacle that’s - I think obstacle, I don't know if that's the right word, but I think it might be - you know there's something stopping you from right this second having sex.  But you know it's coming.  But right now, there needs to be these things done first.  Or maybe you don't know it's coming.

There is something about saying, “Hey, we're not going to have sex”.  There is, as you know, sensate focus, which we use a lot of therapy.  It is just instructing partners to touch one another in a pleasurable, sensual way but to stay away from genitals and to stay away from intercourse.  That obstacle is highly arousing to say, “Hey, don't do this.”

Paul Joannides: Yeah.  As you said that, I was thinking too, boy what about when there are children or babies in the house?  In some ways, that changes things too, because all day long she's got kids fighting for her lap and fighting to be on top of her.  Maybe the last thing that she wants is for you to suddenly fight for that.  Maybe she wants to have some independence and control over her body.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.  Yeah.

Paul Joannides: And how do you help her with that?  How do you seduce her and get her wanting to come to you?  We all have phases in our lives.  When the situations change and are different.

Dr. Lori Buckley: And so are you saying that we should just accept that and go with the flow?  If we can accept it and be mindful of it does that then help us overcome that.  There are people to whom that happens; there are kids, and they are understanding.  But before they know it, six months have gone by and they haven't had sex.

Paul Joannides: Yeah, what do you do with that when that happens?  As a therapist, how do you approach that?

Dr. Lori Buckley: Well, you know I have to find out what is going on.  Sometimes it's just a matter of saying, hey, you've got to make some plans here and put this back on the priority list.  Be mindful of what's going on.  It's never really simple as we said.  There are a lot of complicated issues that come up.

But the biggest thing is the children become the focus.  And they need to become the focus, at least for a while.  They are very dependent upon us.  It's difficult to turn that off and then to become a sexual being, and a sexual partner when our identification is a parent.  So it's sort of working towards that and saying, “Hey, your relationship is a priority.  And while it's not taking away from your children, you need to take that time away and make some plans and have a night out and have some sex.”

Paul Joannides: Yeah.

Dr. Lori Buckley: That's sort of a simplified view, but sometimes that's all it takes, just making up your mind to do it.  I don't think people say I'm not going to have sex for six months or year.  It's just before they know it they think, “Oh my God, how did all that time go by?” 

Paul Joannides: Yeah, and I think, too, especially with children, if you acknowledge that it's really going to interrupt your sexuality for a while, it's not going to make you any less horny.  But it's going to interrupt how you actually have sex together and maybe you can both acknowledge at the time that you are going to be doing a lot of masturbation.  And maybe at least be able to cuddle up next to your partner when you're doing that or something as part of the acknowledgment.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.  One of the things that you talk about in your book, and we know is very important is, what is the definition of sex?  Intercourse, what do you call it in the book, horizontal jogging?  I want to talk to women about that!  That's one idea.  But maybe you not up for that.  But there are so many other forms of intimacy or sex play or other things that you can do.

Paul Joannides: What are some of the better ones that you have seen and heard of in your practice?

Dr. Lori Buckley: It's like you say, it's the same thing.  We could talk to 50 different couples, and they would have 50 different ideas or maybe a hundred different ideas.  But I think a lot of people say, “Oh, who has that kind of time.  Who has that kind of energy?  I'm too tired.”  Because they think it's a big production for them.  There is so much pressure put on this idea of ‘having sex’.

When we can redefine that and say hey, you two just want to have fun together and just enjoy each other's bodies.  You could be making out.  It could be spooning, oral sex or mutual masturbation.  There are so many different ways.  Expand your definition of what sex is.

Paul Joannides: We kind of get caught up in the notion of that you've got to have the penis going inside something.

Dr. Lori Buckley:  Something.  And there needs to be an orgasm, orgasms and ejaculation.  We need to take that away from it.  It makes it all so much more exciting.

So horizontal jogging.  I like that.  Tell me how you came up with that term.

Paul Joannides: Oh boy.  Probably with a margarita.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Hey, you know, they have their place - a margarita now and again.

Paul Joannides: I kind of hate to change the subject, but one thing we were talking about when we are talking about different approaches to a clitoris, is I think a lot of guys also have the sense that finger fucking is every girl's delight.  You kind of make your finger imitate a penis inside the vagina.  Boy is that off base.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right.  So talk more about that.

Paul Joannides: The more I hear from different women, the more you really need to explore and find out.  It could be some kind of finger inserted early on that's painful and puts everything off.  When she wants it there it's much different.  Or some women may not like a finger in there at all.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, and if there is a finger in there, it should always be well lubed, whether it is a lubricant or saliva or whatever.  It can't be dry.

Paul Joannides: Yes.  Exactly.

Dr. Lori Buckley: That seems obvious, but I don't think it is.

Paul Joannides: Yes.  Sometimes if she likes the finger inside it doesn't mean she wants you to be doing anything with it.  So you have to find out.  Sometimes it might be just kind of a circular swirling motion, as opposed to a thrusting motion.  Sometimes it might be kind of a come here motion, sometimes not.  But you've really got to ask about these things.

Dr. Lori Buckley: It always comes down to communication.  I have a question.  We are running out of time, but I definitely want to ask you this question because I think it's important.

I hear it all the time, and I'm sure you do - people, men or women, who wants to try something maybe that they've never tried before.  Or something that they think is kinky or a little not normal is usually the word that they use.  There are things that we definitely want to try and they don't know how to bring this up.  Do you have any suggestions a way to do that?

Paul Joannides: I think props can be helpful, by props - with my books, like you say there are 70 chapters.  I always encourage couples to read it together.  Maybe you don't want to say, “Honey, I want to do this.”  But you say, “Hey look at this chapter.  What do you think about that?”

That can be easier, or if you read erotica together.  Something might come up that hints about things you like to try and you can see what your partner thinks about it.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, so having tools, whether it's a book, if it's instructional or if it's your own erotic book or films, any kind of tools are a good idea.  It makes it a little bit easier.  Or if you say, “Hey my friend tried this!”

Paul Joannides: We allow ourselves to have those with gardening, if you like gardening or with jewelry making, if you like jewelry making.  For anything, as long as you have a hobby, it's OK and expected to have magazines and books and things like that.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Right, and to talk about it.

Paul Joannides: For some reason, with sex, “Well that's porn.  Got to hide that.”

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, and that's something that is not going to be easily overcome. We are working on it.  Your book is making a difference in so many peoples lives.  You know, and I'm going to tell the listeners, that your book is required reading in a lot of college courses about sexuality, mine included. 

Start them young so they can get this information, and so they feel OK about their sexuality and about their feelings and about their chosen ways to express themselves sexually.  It's really difficult to change someone's mindset when we are given so many negative messages in our society about sex.

Paul Joannides: Yeah, just the way it's used in advertising is often pretty darn negative.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, yeah, and a lot of people say, “But it's so much better now, because it's so out there on the Internet, and the porn, it's all out there.”  But those messages are just as dangerous sometimes.

Paul Joannides: Yeah, they can be extremely strange.  If you look at how many models or women or actresses actually have their own natural breasts.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Have their what?

Paul Joannides:  Unless they are really buxom to begin with.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Oh right!

Paul Joannides: We have this idea that a normal woman has a breast implant.  There are just so many bizarre notions about sexuality that we grew up with that are kind of strange.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Yeah, it is.  I love what you say about our brains being so important, and emotions.  Because otherwise, jack off.  Certainly it is a lot easier and is probably not any less pleasurable than if you're with someone to whom you're not feeling connected.

Paul Joannides: We forget, trust takes a lot of time and experience to evolve.  There can be lots of people who are married, but don't necessarily trust each other.

Dr. Lori Buckley: That's absolutely true.  Trust is important.  You want to be able to feel safe and open up emotionally and physically to a partner that you're with.  That's a whole other interview.


Dr. Lori Buckley: But I want to say to the listeners if you have any mail or comments that you want to send to me, e-mail me at [email protected].  To find out more about sex and Paul's book, ‘The Guide to Getting It On’, go to his website at


Thank you so much for joining us.  There is so much information.  Clearly we need a lot more time.  But we will be able to speak again in the future.  I really do appreciate you joining us today and giving us all of that wonderful information.

Paul Joannides: Well thanks so very much for having me.

Dr. Lori Buckley: Oh, you're welcome.  That brings us to the end of the show.  Thank you for listening.  For text and transcripts of this show and other shows on Personal Life Media Network please visit our website at  This is your host, Dr. Lori Buckley.

Announcer: Listen to A Taste of Sex.  Guest speaker interviews, a companion program to the weekly audio show, Life In an Orgasm-Based Community, on  Push into the unknown with visiting sexperts at One Taste San Francisco on

Dr. Lori Buckley: Hi this is Dr. Lori, and you are listening to On the Minds of Men.  This is your exercise for the week.  This is a great exercise that I actually give to a lot of couples.  It's based on a Masters and Johnson sensate focusing exercise.  It's what Paul and I were talking about we talked about tension. Creating that obstacle and taking away the goal of sexual intercourse or orgasm, basically taking away all goals at all and just focusing on pleasure can really build up that sexual tension and really make things much more pleasurable and exciting.

So today's exercise is called The Pleasurable Touch Exercise.  It really is about sensual touch.  Sensual touch is such a pleasurable way to explore and enhance intimacy and really learn about your partner.  In this exercise, again, take away all the goals you know of having to do anything.  As a matter of fact, take it away to the point where you're not even allowed to have intercourse or orgasms.  That's not what this is about.  It's about pleasure, not goal oriented sex, orgasm, or even sexual arousal.

Now, of course, you may experience some sexual arousal and that's great.  Enjoy it, relish it, and just don't act on it.  Remember, this is also not a massage.  Massage is a form of healing touch.  This is sensual touch.  I don't need to go into the difference.  I think you know what that is.

Now what you're going to do is take turns.  One of you will be the giver.  The other one will be the receiver.  What you want to do is make sure you schedule a night that you and your partner are going to complete this exercise.  Everybody's busy, but make this a special night.  Talk about it.  Tease one another about it.  Build some anticipation and tension.  Really make this a wonderful, fun time that you can have together.

So now, if you're the giver, what you're going to do is create a sensual and comfortable environment.  Make sure you're not going to be distracted or disturbed.  Lock out the dogs and cats.  Light a candle or two, maybe some music, maybe some lotion or massage oil if that's what you like.  Maybe put on some clean sheets or draw a bath for your partner.

What you are going to do, as the giver is focus on your pleasure.  This isn't about pleasing your partner.  Your partner, as the receiver is going to focus on the pleasure that they are experiencing.  You don't want to talk.  You just want to be.  You just want to feel and experience how your partner skin feels, how their body feels, the firmness, the softness, the roundness.  Just enjoy it. 

Clothing is optional.  As the giver, you can wear clothing or not.  As the receiver, I would say either go naked or wear some underwear; whatever feels most comfortable.

You are going to spend 30 minutes as the giver.  You are going to do about 10 to 15 minutes on each side.  Just explore your partner's entire body from his or her head to his or her toes.  You don't want to touch the breasts or genitals.  Remember, this is not about sex.  This is about sensuality and pleasure.  So stay away from those areas, although teasing near the areas is certainly allowed.

Have some fun.  Be creative.  Try using your fingers, your hands, your mouth, and your hair.  Really, just touch her partner in ways that feel good to you.  And again no communication is necessary in this one.

As the receiver, you're going to relax and enjoy, same thing.  No need to talk.  Just be.  Just experience the pleasure.  Don't worry if your partner is getting tired or what they're thinking or feeling.  It's common for distractions or thoughts to come into our heads.  We want to let those go.  Just be as present as possible.

So again, take turns.  Take 30 minutes each.  Give each other a nice sensual touch.  Enjoy the pleasure that you are each feeling.  This will probably create a level of intimacy that you may not have experienced before.  Take this opportunity to learn about some things that you like. 

When you are done with the exercise have a conversation with your partner.  Find out what they liked.  There are some variations that you might want to do next time.  Maybe you do want to include the genitals or add some communication.  You can do this in so many different ways.

Again, this is to expand your definition of sex and know that it doesn't always have to lead to intercourse or orgasms.  Not only is that exciting, it actually can deepen your intimacy and can make sex when you do have it without those goals, even better.

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