Episode 30: Doron Wesly, Millward Brown's "Stats Man" Dishes the Gossip With Suz on "Chardonnay Tawk"
Meet Doron, Vice President of Millward Brown's media practice who has helped put the digital media industry on the map by showing the quantitative value of online advertising through his research at both the IAB and MB. He shares his childhood stories of Haifa and Maastrict, talks about the current state of digital media research and then Susan and Doron pop a bottle of Chardonnay and get down to the gossip. Ching! Ching!
"Chardonnay Talk," much like "Cawfee Tawk," is a wanton Friday afternoon abbondanza of scuttlebutt, scandal and here-say about mutual friends and famous people in the interactive agency, online publishing, and digital marketing world. Who has a hot body? Who should have their own video show? Who has a bi-coastal job and a 2 year old? Who owes Doron lunch? Who is a hottie in Facebook? Who keeps sending Doron hamburgers? Who is holding his groin? Who has a home in Arkansas they can sell you? Why was Suz worried?
Who constantly reinvents herself? Who just got engaged? Who is the super-cool chica with whom we want to have pedicures? For whom, when they fell in love, was it pure agony? Who has the best combination of freckles and dreads? Who is mad at Doron? Who owns a bar? Who still dresses like Allie McBeal? Who has the most beautiful wife in the world? Who is a big mover at AOL now? Who is the best at debating politics?
Who takes 400 slides to do a 20 minute presentation? Who is the fair-haired beauty? Who was key in driving interactive forward in the early days? Who has been married to their sweetheart for 15 years? Who plays the Ukulele? Who should be doing FedEx commercials? Who is moving abroad? Who is a magician? Who moved to Toronto? Who is a visionary? Who doesn't want to fly on Bill Gates' jet? What color are Martha Stewart's offices? Who is well-suited to be a CMO?
Julie Roehm, Molly Parsley, Melinda Gipson, Hugh McGoran, Heidi Lehman, Jason Krebs, Tom Hespos, Adam Gerber, Benjamin Hill, Tim Kopp, Corey Kronengold, Leslie Laredo, Daina Middleton, Dave Morgan, Nick Nyhan, Greg Stuart, John Stichweh, Geoff Ramsey, Joanne Bradford, Wenda Harris Millard, Julian Aldridge, Allison Arden, Michael Barrett, Judit Nagy, Mike Stoeckel, Mary Bermel, Lynn Bolger, Rick Bruner, Sarah Fay, Masha Geller, Crystal Guerin, Jack Haber, Taddy Hall are are in the mix.
If you can resist listening to this episode of DishyMix, smack yourself -- twice -- because you are a BORE!
Woman: This program is brought to you by PersonalLifeMedia.com.
Susan Bratton: Welcome to “Dishy Mix”, I'm your host, Susan Bratton, and I have a really fun show for you today. I have on Doron Wesly. Doron is the Vice-President of Strategic Services for Millward Brown, but he's also a very good friend of mine. We've known each other for years, we have a lot of mutual friends. He's in the studio with me today, so we're going to have a fun format.
Doron Wesly: The great moment I see is when you've got multiple parties at the table sitting down from different divisions and then you start seeing the interaction. So Finance sits there, Marketing sits there, and Research sits there, Executive Team sits there, at one point, one person goes, “Well, you know, we haven’t done something in 15 years.” The other person goes, “How come? This is our second biggest expenditure?” Then the third person goes, “Well, that’s because our agency doesn’t like to do that.” You start seeing the people actually talking to each other and trying to resolve an issue. So those are the big Ah-ha moments in our organization.
I dress well because it makes me feel good. I like seeing good combinations, I like being proper and I feel much more in control of a situation when I feel comfortable with myself.
Susan Bratton: Well, Julian’s probably one of the most handsome men in the industry. So he is at Ammo Marketing, he really founded that. He's got a lovely [xx] and he is a fabulous, hot body guy with the best dressed physique in the world. That’s the first thing that comes to my mind. I know I should be professional, but no, no, it's about how gorgeous he is.
Doron Wesly: I would absolutely agree with you. Actually, he always makes me think about why I'm not going to the gym? People randomly listen to our conversation goes, “Oh, I play ukulele, too.” So apparently, there's a whole [xx] of people playing ukulele. Just so you know.
Susan Bratton: Just like this whole [xx] of people
wearing latex, they're all out there! They're all out there!
Susan Bratton: Hi, Doron.
Doron Wesly: Hey, Susan, how are you?
Susan Bratton: I'm great. It's great to be snuggle up in my studio with you.
Doron Wesly: It feels almost like a closet which is funny in San Francisco.
Susan Bratton: You're in the closet in San Francisco. Well, Doron, for those of my listeners who might not have met you, tell us what you do for Millward Brown, what your job is and what that’s like for you?
Doron Wesly: It's a lot of listening to our clients and actually trying to educate our teams on digital media, make them feel more comfortable with everything that a lot of us have learned over the past 10 years.
Susan Bratton: So research is one of those things for me that is really boring to think about and talk about.
Doron Wesly: Thanks, Susan. That’s so nice.
Susan Bratton: But it is because it's actually the collection part of it, it's just like, “Err, whatever we got to go get the information.” It's like you got to saddle it up, you got be really person [xx], but the insights are the most fascinating thing, the results are the most fascinating thing like that one little piece of information that you clean can be very powerful. Can you share--I know not specifically to a company--but could you share any powerful moments in the history of research where you've been involved that have completely altered your thinking about something?
Doron Wesly: It starts actually with the discovery period. You're actually right, the period of measurement and data collection is the most boring, tedious job in the world and I have a lot of respect for my colleagues who day in and day out do it flawlessly. They really have to be flawless with that. It's actually discovery period that excites me because you got people for the first time sit down and think about what the question is. Sometimes, they think they know the question and then you draw deeper and you draw deeper and you start seeing that actually they know some of the answers and they just weren’t willing to accept them. Other times, they will be surprised that they actually don’t know the answer to certain questions which they normally say that they know. So discovery period is very exciting.
The great moment that I see is when you've got multiple parties at the table sitting there from different divisions and then you start seeing the interaction. So Finance sits there and Marketing sits there and Research sits there, Executive Team sits there and at one point, one person goes, “Well, you know, we haven’t done something in 15 years.” The other person goes, “How come? This is our second biggest expenditure?” Then the third person goes, “Well, that’s because our agency doesn’t like to do that.”
You start seeing that people are actually talking to each other and trying to resolve an issue. So those are the big ah-ha moments in our organization, very exciting to see and it happens more and more. So that’s my job, it's those moments comprising of identifying them, listening to them, pointing to them and directing them towards that resolution.
Susan Bratton: So you know, one of the things that I'm thinking about is that listeners who haven’t met you might not know where you got your accent. It's a little bit of what?
Doron Wesly: Too heavy?
Susan Bratton: Haifa? A little bit of Maastricht? Tell us about your background.
Doron Wesly: Born in Israel, in Haifa, which is the northern part of Israel and move to Holland at age seven and grew up in the Netherlands, which is obviously a very different society than Israel. Israel is a very open society, much more Americanized, Holland is much more controlling even though people say that Holland is a very open society. At that time when I moved to Holland most women didn’t work, people when they made an appointment, it took about a month that you have to actually schedule an appointment before you can come see somebody. Something like this will take months to schedule.
So my [xx] is inside of Holland, that’s my other accent and I've lived there until I left university and then I came to the US. So the accent is a mixed combination of Israeli or Hebrew from Israel obviously, Dutch from Maastricht, and there's a little bit of dialect. So it's not really proper Dutch like most people know, and then there's some portions from the US, from Kansas City, so I've got a little bit of the slang of the Midwest and a little bit of the hardcore New York attitudes, so it's an interesting combination.
Susan Bratton: So one of the other things that I know about you, too, is that you're a beautifully dressed man. You always look absolutely gorgeous, your clothes suit you perfectly. When did you start to dress well and why do you do it?
Doron Wesly: I dress well because it makes me feel good. I like seeing good combinations, I like being proper. I feel much more in control of a situation when I feel comfortable with myself. So dressing is just a way of expressing myself, of my moods, of what I'm thinking. People can actually catch up on that. So for example, today I'm in blue, the sky is blue, I'm very happy, I'm seeing you so it makes me feel good. Yesterday, I was actually at a very boring conference and I wore a very stodgy old suit because I was sitting with people who are industry veterans and I felt like you know what I need to measure myself up to them because they're many more years in this industry. So, I play with my outfits. I also have some fun outfits that most people don’t know.
Susan Bratton: Yes, tell us about those. Do many of them have sequins on them because I know you're a dancer.
Doron Wesly: Some of them actually have latex which is really funny because New York…
Susan Bratton: Little kinky!
Doron Wesly: …has a fabulous madam who specializes in latex. Because I was living in East Village and that’s where she has her shop, order some fabulous clothes made by her. So that’s my other side that most people don’t know about.
Susan Bratton: Well, you have to describe your most favorite latex outfit for me. What color is it?
Doron Wesly: Are you really making me do this now on the radio?
Susan Bratton: You brought it up!
Doron Wesly: I did bring it up. So I can tell you with [xx] colors, how about that? It's flowing and has hot pink in it and black and that is my favorite, favorite outfit. The people who know me on the show, they’ve seen pictures of it. I remember sending it and then my family goes, “Are you completely insane sending those pictures?” And I go, “Why not, these people know me?” So you've seen them, other people have seen them. The ones on the show, they’ll know.
Susan Bratton: So, in the world of the transparent persona, Facebook, we write and tell everything, we blog about ourselves, you're sharing your pink and black latex outfit with all of the listeners of “Dishy Mix”. Do you ever worried that this is going to bite you in the ass?
Doron Wesly: No, no, because I know these people and I have nothing to hide.
Susan Bratton: Yes.
Doron Wesly: There's nothing about me that there's to hide. I'm not pretending to be somebody that I'm not. People actually appreciate the openness. Sometimes it's frightening to them, they go, “What's wrong with you? Why are you showing so much information with me?” But it works to my advantage. So far, in my life, everytime I open up with people, I'd open them up to me and I have nothing to be ashamed of. It's not like I'm doing anything illegal, it's not as if I am hurting other people, it's not as if I am pretending to be somebody that I'm not. So I think that people appreciate that instead of fear it, but it does raise a lot of eyebrows every single time.
Susan Bratton: I totally agree with you. I started to live fully into myself and that’s when I feel like my life began, and if there's any advice I can give people who are in their 20’s and 30’s, it's fly your freak flag and fly it high because once you've given yourself permission to expose who you truly are, it allows others around you to be like that. So I'd never want to be like the Dutch where you have to call for the appointment to come over, I want to know exactly who you are. I like that Americans do wear quite a bit of who they are in their sleeve and I like the new Facebook better than the old LinkedIn where you get to know the personality of the person. Of course, I'm doing “Dishy Mix”. I love the personality of the people.
So a couple of things.
Doron Wesly: But also, I want to say something.
Susan Bratton: Yes, go ahead, please.
Doron Wesly: Some people actually like to have a different name when they go online. I actually have no problem with my name.
Susan Bratton: You're sabredutch.
Doron Wesly: I'm sabredutch but there's always Doron in it, so if you go to my YouTube channel, which is sabredutch.vld, every video is actually Doron Wesly because I've actually no problem and people knowing what I show.
Susan Bratton: And were these the scuba diving videos?
Doron Wesly: These are the scuba diving videos. But even my pictures, if you go to Picazza, it's at Doron Wesly, if you go to Facebook, it's Doron Wesly. Sabredutch is just a nice combination. I'm glad you brought it up. Sabre is Israeli, Dutch, Dutch, that’s why I have it.
Susan Bratton: Sabre means Israeli?
Doron Wesly: Sabre is this fruit form a cactus which is very thorny, but when you open it up, inside it's very soft which is what an Israeli is, on the outside very thorny and very sweet.
Susan Bratton: Nice! I love that. So, we’re enjoying a glass of Chardonnay while we do the show today. I've never had a nice drink while I do the show and it's really delightful to have you here.
Doron Wesly: This is good.
Susan Bratton: How do you like the Chardonnay we're having?
Doron Wesly: It's Abeja, right? From Walla, from Washington?
Susan Bratton: It's Abeja, which is really close, and that means “bee” like a buzzy bee and it's from Walla Walla, Washington, they make great Chardonnays there.
Doron Wesly: It couldn't be better for several reasons. One, it's with you; second of all, it's on a Friday afternoon and we all deserve a Chardonnay on a Friday afternoon after a long week.
Susan Bratton: Absolutely.
Doron Wesly: So it's perfect.
Susan Bratton: I love it. So, I want to go to a break, and when we come back, you and I are going to play a game. That’s one of the things I like to do on “Dishy Mix”. Actually, it's not really a game, we're going to do word association. But it turns out that you and I have over 100 people that are our friends in common and I bet it's probably 500 or 600 people if we actually got our social graphs completely over laid.
So we're just going to talk about people on the next 15 minutes of the show, and talk about what we know about them, what's interesting about them, and we're just going to go through our little list. So you get to listen to see if we're going to talk about you. So stay tuned, we're with Doron Wesly, he's with Millward Brown. I'm your host, Susan Bratton, and we’ll be right back to do some coffee talk or some Chardonnay talk.
Susan Bratton: All right, we're back and Doron, I know you want to reach for a wine glass so go get it, get it and clunk around in the studio, it's absolutely no problem. Cheers! Let's ding ding. Woo! That sounds pretty good, didn’t it? We've got some quality crystal glasses here, and now we're going to gossip. So let's see, who’s first on our list that you and I both know. We know Julian Aldridge, so do you want to go first or do you want me to?
Doron Wesly: No, you go first with this one.
Susan Bratton: All right. So, well, Julian is probably one of the most handsome men in the industry. So he is at Ammo Marketing, he really founded that. He’s got a lovely [xx] and he's fabulous hot body guy with the best dressed physique in the world. That’s the first thing that comes to my mind. I know I should be professional, but no, no, it's about how gorgeous he is.
Doron Wesly: I would absolutely agree with you. Actually, he always makes me think about why I'm not going to the gym. So Julian, thanks to you, I'm going to actually consider going to the gym now.
Susan Bratton: Well, you look beautiful, so I wouldn’t worry. So let's se, Allison Arden, here's what I know about Allison. She just got promoted to the publisher of Ad Age and Scott Donaton left, that’s what gave her the slot and the shot. Scott is now the publisher of Entertainment Weekly, part of Time Inc’s stable of magazines. Did you know that?
Doron Wesly: No, I didn’t know.
Susan Bratton: I just found out today.
Doron Wesly: Wow!
Susan Bratton: I know, good for both of them, huh?
Doron Wesly: So when is Allison going to actually have a video podcast? I'm still waiting for that.
Susan Bratton: She’d be good at that.
Doron Wesly: She would be.
Susan Bratton: Yes, she’s sharp and beautiful.
Doron Wesly: Allison, we want to see your video.
Susan Bratton: Get on video. One of the people I choose to talk about is Michael Barrett. He is the EVP at MySpace and Fox Interactive Media and tall, handsome, sweetheart of a guy and who I think must be very interesting for him is watching how Facebook is roiling around right now. MySpace has done a lot of good work really playing it close and not leveraging their data too much. So it’d be really interesting to see how that all works out.
Doron Wesly: He got actually some strong players with them. He got Judith Nagy and he's got Scott Bender and he's got Michael [xx] . So you've got some several strong players to help him. Michael was a fabulous guy on the IB Board. He's being such a big supporter when he was at AOL. He's going to find a way to overcome the MySpace dilemma right now, between what's happening with my friends at Facebook.
Susan Bratton: Well, and Judith Nagy, I worked with her on the Neverending Friending Marketing Program [xx]. I'd emceed their event that day and she's a solid researcher. She came from Yahoo! with all that experience [xx] from there.
Let's see who else we want to talk about. Mary Burnell, the beauty form HP.
Doron Wesly: Can you believe she left HP for Yahoo!?
Susan Bratton: She did?
Doron Wesly: She did!
Susan Bratton: Oh, my God! I had no idea. I thought she was still at HP. What she's going to do at Yahoo!?
Doron Wesly: No. She's now heading the technology of vertical. It's amazing.
Susan Bratton: Oh, wow! Tech vertical, that’s good for her. You know what? It's nice to blast around a bit for a while and get on the other side, the publisher side. She's been on the brand side for such a long time. I'm sure that will accelerate her brain power for a while.
Doron Wesly: You know, she is really a person who drove in track forward over the years.
Susan Bratton: Definitely, she's always invested.
Doron Wesly: She pushed HP over the 20% in terms of investment and online. Yes, that was her.
Susan Bratton: Well, thank you Mary, good job. Well, let's see, who else…Lynn Bolger, I just saw her at ad:tech New York about a month ago and that woman never changes. She looks as good as always.
Doron Wesly: Back at comScore.
Susan Bratton: Yes, oh back, wait a minute. Where did she go?
Doron Wesly: She went to Yahoo!
Susan Bratton: I didn’t know that!
Doron Wesly: Did a brief stint at Yahoo!, back at comScore, very happy at comScore and everybody is delighted.
Susan Bratton: But that’s a good story.
Doron Wesly: Yes. And she actually, now she guest teaches with Leslie Laredo[sp].
Susan Bratton: I want to know that. That makes sense.
Doron Wesly: She did that for many years, teaching them about audience measurement.
Susan Bratton: Well, let's see, how about Rick Bruner, what a sweetheart.
Doron Wesly: So, Rick, I have a story about Rick.
Susan Bratton: Tell us.
Doron Wesly: Rick came to brunch with his wife, he's been married now for 15 years to Addy and we're having brunch and he pulls out a ukulele. As I'm doing the dishes and my friends are sitting there, Angela, Addy, everybody sitting having brunch, he starts playing the ukulele, and not just playing, he is singing, singing beautiful songs. This guy is talented, I'm telling you. So there are two things about him that you should know he's making beautiful pictures, news photography, mind you, and he plays ukulele.
Susan Bratton: That’s funny.
Doron Wesly: I know, and every time I talk to him at the airport--so we speak all the time together because we're close friends--people randomly listen to our conversation and goes, “Oh, I played ukulele, too.” So apparently, there's a whole [xx] of people playing ukulele, just so you know.
Susan Bratton: Just like there's a whole [xx] of people wearing latex.
Doron Wesly: I tell you there are.
Susan Bratton: They're all out there, they're all out there. I love it. Well, he has a depth of soul that is hard to find.
Doron Wesly: He does.
Susan Bratton: Rick Bruner, really does.
Doron Wesly: Well, let's see. Who else do we like that we want to talk about. Sara Fay, well, she's a darling and dear, dear friend of mine. She's a show sponsor, I love that. Thank you, Isobar, for sponsoring “Dishy Mix” and just the best.
Doron Wesly: Sara is fabulous, that woman just never ceases to amaze me or stops to amaze me, on Facebook, updating herself, constantly in the forefront. She's got a great video online, have you seen it?
Susan Bratton: No.
Doron Wesly: Isobar, if you go to Isobar.com or Isobar.net, she's got a beautiful video out there where she's actually talking about digital space and where it's heading.
Susan Bratton: Oh, yes, I've seen that. It's like different people from their company talking, yes, really cute.
Doron Wesly: Different people, but she's also there, yes.
Susan Bratton: Well, one of the things that I like about Sara so much is that she came from interactive but she's running all traditional and interactive now. I'd like to see someone who’s running a huge media organization, who came originally from print and then Iraq rather from the television side.
Doron Wesly: And she's been there for a while, and most people they just see [xx] don’t stay that long with a company, there are only a couple and she and Debra [xx] really make a good team together.
Susan Bratton: They do, and Nigel Morris.
Doron Wesly: That true? Very true?
Susan Bratton: Yes, great personalities. That’s a real, real trio of talent.
Doron Wesly: They compliment each other very well.
Susan Bratton: They do, yes, they really do, neat. Marcia Geller, the willowy beauty.
Doron Wesly: She's engaged.
Susan Bratton: Oh, my God!
Doron Wesly: She's engaged.
Susan Bratton: I hope it's for public consumption.
Doron Wesly: I hope so, too.
Susan Bratton: Sorry, Marcia. The cat’s out of the bag.
Doron Wesly: But it wasn't Paris, so everybody can know now. Now that we know, it wasn't Paris. We're not going to say with who.
Susan Bratton: You're not?
Doron Wesly: But she's very happy.
Susan Bratton: All right.
Doron Wesly: Industry person.
Susan Bratton: Congratulations, let's do a cling, cling for Marcia.
Doron Wesly: Here you go, Marcia, cheers!
Susan Bratton: Cheers for you, darling, that’s the best news. Somebody’s going to love you up.
All right, oh, Crystal Gurin. Do you know her very well?
Doron Wesly: Not that well.
Susan Bratton: OK, I don’t know her very well but she's an emarketer.
Doron Wesly: Oh, Crystal!
Susan Bratton: Yes, yes, yes!
Doron Wesly: I'm sorry. She's going to be very upset with me.
Susan Bratton: No,
Doron Wesly: No, no, no. I actually know her.
Susan Bratton: OK, yes. So she is someone I don’t know very well, but every time I talk to her, I really wish like I could spend the afternoon, having pedicures and hanging out with her. She seems like a super neat person to [xx].
Doron Wesly: She’s a cool chica. She is, not near enough in New York, Crystal you need to move to New York. Enough is enough, come to New York from Philadelphia. I know you like it over there, but we need you in New York. She got a son and she talks a lot about her son, and eMarketer, such a great organization. I'm so happy she and Jeff are working together. She's really good.
Susan Bratton: What about Jack Haber, he's our mutual contact.
Doron Wesly: Jack Haber.
Susan Bratton: He's been there for a while.
Doron Wesly: I met him through the IB when he was doing Excellence with us.
Susan Bratton: Right. I remember that.
Doron Wesly: With [xx].
Susan Bratton: He was one of the very first people that funded that research.
Doron Wesly: He did, he did.
Susan Bratton: Yes, he's always been sticking his neck out in the space.
Doron Wesly: Always fighting for digital basically. He calls himself--I think [xx] at some point had something ecommerce in it which is so wrong, he's so much more than that. But Jack is real fun for digital, he always makes himself available for everything.
Susan Bratton: Here's another guy who makes himself available for everything, Teddy Hall! Teddy Hall from the ARF.
Doron Wesly: Did you know that Teddy doesn’t sit down. Teddy when he works stands.
Susan Bratton: There are a number of people who do that.
Doron Wesly: Really?
Susan Bratton: Who was on my show, Scott Rafer from Lookery, he doesn’t sit down either. He either lies on the sofa in his office or stands up.
Doron Wesly: Interesting.
Susan Bratton: Apparently, not uncommon.
Doron Wesly: Well, apparently so. And after he had his daughter, he has become a different person. He has.
Susan Bratton: I remember when he was falling in love.
Doron Wesly: Do you remember?
Susan Bratton: Oh, my God, it was so besotted, it was delightful to watch. It was almost like agonizing pleasure for him, how in love he was. It was really cool.
Doron Wesly: Yes.
Susan Bratton: Yes, I like that. That’s such a great story. That’s what needs to happen to you. You need to fall in love and have a baby.
Doron Wesly: I'm still looking.
Susan Bratton: All right, all you [xx] day date gals, get on it, get on it. It's sabredutch.
Doron Wesly: You're too much.
Susan Bratton: Let's see, Benjamin Hale.
Doron Wesly: Benjamin Hale, you, guys, know him, he's from Motorola. He's been with ad:tech for a while on board, you know him very well.
Susan Bratton: Oh, yes.
Doron Wesly: Family person, very strong family person, has a great story. If you ever catch him about a Motorola Razor Dolce & Gabbana version. So if you ever have any question about that, ask him why he has that, very strong in the digital space, fights a good fight over there. I think that he's become a good friend, we had good dinners in Chicago together.
Susan Bratton: I like his dreadlocks.
Doron Wesly: Isn’t that funky?
Susan Bratton: I used to have dread.
Doron Wesly: No, his dread and his freckles.
Susan Bratton: Yes, yes. It's a good combination.
Doron Wesly: He's got a very cool combination [xx].
Susan Bratton: He does. Yes, he's one of those people who’s faces I just love to absorb. Yes, that’s neat. So here's another one, here's my barbeque man, Tim Kopp. How’s he doing over at WebTrends now that he left PNG, then he went to Coke, and he's always on the sales side really.
Doron Wesly: He left WebTrends.
Susan Bratton: What? Oh, my God, you're so up on things. I love this, you need to come on like at least once a month for like The Courier Move update.
Doron Wesly: I'm going to come, if that’s Fridays and we got Chardonnay, I'm here.
Susan Bratton: All right, good, because you're into a vignette.
Doron Wesly: So Tim went…
Susan Bratton: Where did he go?
Doron Wesly: Tim went, he didn’t go anywhere yet, I think that he's still finalizing that particular portion but he went from Coke to WebTrends and then things changed at WebTrends, and he made a decision to leave, yes. Obviously, you're not upset with me, Tim, because that would be bad.
Susan Bratton: He's not, he's pissed. He's really
Doron Wesly: Is he? He's going to call me now.
Susan Bratton: Oh, my God, you're in so [xx].
Doron Wesly: I'm sorry.
Susan Bratton: First, you were on Marcia’s whole surprise on her engagement.
Doron Wesly: That was a month ago. Marcia, start broadcasting the news already.
Susan Bratton: Start breaking the news [singing]. OK, so let's see, Corey Kronengold. I just like his name, Kronengold.
Doron Wesly: He's not with Tremor, he was with Eyeblaster. He's now with Tremor Media.
Susan Bratton: I don’t have an idea where he is.
Doron Wesly: Yes, he's with Tremor Media now. Yes, he's doing good. He's a good guy. He's always trying to move things forward. He works with Randy Kilgore right now, that’s where he works with, if Randy’s not over there, he's over there trying to work close with the IB, he's a good guy. He was in a good position at Eyeblaster and it was good for him to move away from that, continue to learn.
Susan Bratton: Absolutely. Keep pushing it. Leslie Laredo, hey, Leslie!
Doron Wesly: She's got an office in New York.
Susan Bratton: Really.
Doron Wesly: She's got an apartment in New York.
Susan Bratton: That’s good to know. Sometimes I need a place to stay.
Doron Wesly: Excuse me.
Susan Bratton: Can I stay in your house?
Doron Wesly: Only in my house.
Susan Bratton: Really?
Doron Wesly: Only in my house.
Susan Bratton: What do you have? A pull out bed or a guest room, what is my set up?
Doron Wesly: It's New York.
Susan Bratton: Yes, no, it's fine, tell what I have.
Doron Wesly: So it's relatively small, you get my bed.
Susan Bratton: No, no.
Doron Wesly: I'm never there.
Susan Bratton: You travel through half of the time.
Doron Wesly: By the way, you, guys, shouldn’t know that, obviously because now people will try to figure out how to get there. But, yes, you're always welcome to be there.
Susan Bratton: Thank you.
Doron Wesly: Leslie is, first of all, her son is very interested in marine biology so he's going to focus on that. She’s happily married, obviously. She's the best looking redhead in the world.
Susan Bratton: Oh, my God, such a gorgeous girl, yes.
Doron Wesly: The best, and she wears mini skirts, Tuesday [sp] which is very hot.
Susan Bratton: Yes, I like that. The Ally McBeal thing really stuck with her. Yes, which is good.
Doron Wesly: It's really good.
Susan Bratton: I know, I love that. She’s a woman with so much confidence.
Doron Wesly: You know what with her now?
Susan Bratton: And she has a joie de vive that’s very contagious.
Doron Wesly: She does.
Susan Bratton: Who, who was her?
Doron Wesly: Jason Heller.
Susan Bratton: No way!
Doron Wesly: Jason who had a mass transit agency is now with Leslie Laredo, or the Laredo Group, excuse me.
Susan Bratton: The Laredo Group, and what’s he doing for her? Is he doing training? He’d be good at that, he likes to talk.
Doron Wesly: Jason, I've no idea what you do there. You need to call me and let me know what you're doing there.
Susan Bratton: That’s right, on the next update, on the next coffee talk, on the next Chardonnay talk. Diana Middleton, OK, I'm going first, blew me away at ad:tech New York, she was on a panel and she was showcasing the work that she's doing for Hewlett-Packard, and she's literally wrapping buildings in photos that are generated by consumers online that are being voted on by the consumers, like doing really cool online offline digital stuff. But what's great about her is that that’s like such a small part of what she does, her creative digital marketing work. She has a horse, I don’t know like horsey stuff very well, horse ranch and she has maybe like 10-30 horses. She lives in Utah and that’s a big part of her life.
Doron Wesly: Boise, Idaho.
Susan Bratton: Boise, Idaho. That’s it. Did I say Utah? Yes, yes, yes. So she's a very [xx] balanced person who does amazing things in her life and she's coming on “Dishy Mix” very soon.
Doron Wesly: That’s good.
Susan Bratton: Yes, she blew me away and I called her up and I'm like, “You have to come on the show.”
Doron Wesly: If you have a chance, ask her about search because this is one person…
Susan Bratton: Actually started
Doron Wesly: She thinks very differently about search. She's pushing search at a whole new level and whenever you get to Boise, Idaho, make sure that you walk in between the poop of the birds, they are all over place of the Hewlett-Packard compound. I don’t know what they are, they're like ducks, not ducks, something. Geese!
Susan Bratton: The geese’s shit all over the place.
Doron Wesly: Geese, they shit all over the place.
Susan Bratton: Right, you don’t want to get that on your shoes.
Doron Wesly: That’s funny, when we talk to Daina, she's like, “Make sure you don’t walk on the shit.” I'm like, “OK, good.”
Susan Bratton: She's a farm girl, I like her.
Doron Wesly: There you go.
Susan Bratton: She is a farm girl. Sure that were on the end that we're talking about Dave Morgan. What's happening with Dave?
Doron Wesly: Dave is enjoying life right now. First of all, Dave has the most beautiful wife in the world.
Susan Bratton: Does he?
Doron Wesly: Yes, yes, yes. He's very political, most people don’t know that, but he's extremely political.
Susan Bratton: What party?
Doron Wesly: I won't say.
Susan Bratton: OK.
Doron Wesly: I think that’s enough already. OK, but him and Shelby from CNET.
Susan Bratton: Shelby Bonnie.
Doron Wesly: Yes, Shelby Boonie, the opposite equation but they are very good in debating each other. Long story short, Dave is enjoying himself, he's all over the place.
Susan Bratton: Is he out of Dakota, out of AOL or is he still working there?
Doron Wesly: No, actually most people don’t know that but Dakota [sp] actually much more prominent within the AOL than people think. So a lot of the executives of Dakota are actually taking very senior positions within AOL.
Susan Bratton: Running the deal, good for him. Well, you know what, he work long and hard and I wish him…
Doron Wesly: He did, he deserves it.
Susan Bratton: …all the success in the world.
Doron Wesly: Although, a couple of weeks later, Quigo was bought for 350 and I'm sure he was like thinking in terms of “What happened?”
Susan Bratton: Really? Why, how much was Dakota bought for?
Doron Wesly: 275.
Susan Bratton: I don’t even know what Quigo does.
Doron Wesly: Isn’t that funny?
Susan Bratton: Do you?
Doron Wesly: No, I don’t. I know the people, which is really funny. I should know what they do.
Susan Bratton: Sometimes you're just too busy to ask and you're like, “OK, you're like this, and if it doesn’t enter my sphere it's not all I need to know’ basis.”
Doron Wesly: 350.
Susan Bratton: Not bad. Nick Nyhan.
Doron Wesly: Nick? Nick is a fabulous guy. He's a family man.
Susan Bratton: Is he competitive for you? Right, he's your competitor, huh?
Doron Wesly: No, Nick is my partner. He's founded Dynamic Logic which is bought by Millward Brown.
Susan Bratton: Millward Brown bought Dynamic Logic?
Doron Wesly: Yes, we bought them three years ago.
Susan Bratton: What do we got?!
Doron Wesly: I don’t know.
Susan Bratton: I don’t need it.
Doron Wesly: You need this.
Susan Bratton: I didn’t know it.
Doron Wesly: So Nick is doing extremely well, he leads a [xx] group with the Millward Brown. A lot of people admire him because he knows how to speak about digital in very regular term so that in doesn’t frighten people away. In fact, if you listen to him, he often says, he starts with all the buzz words that we all know and then he goes, “I'm not going to talk about them.” Then he just talks about digital in a way that it makes it much better and Nick is a visionary because he was the one who started to focus on privacy. Now consumers were afraid of all the cookies and the tracking and everything else that came along with it, so he is a visionary that way. I think Nick is actually heading over away from the US for a couple of years, he's going to live abroad, I think. I think that’s what's going to happen next year for him.
Susan Bratton: I think that’s a nice opportunity, [xx] gone for a little while and it's good.
Doron Wesly: Yes, the baby is young enough to be that, so it's good for him.
Susan Bratton: All right, here's somebody fabulous.
Doron Wesly: Who?
Susan Bratton: I am not going to tell you who it is. I'm going to give you a hint. OK, it's that person who needs 400 slides to do a 20-minute presentation.
Doron Wesly: OK, well his last name starts with an S, and the first name with a G. Am I right?
Susan Bratton: Who is it?
Doron Wesly: Greg Stuart.
Susan Bratton: No!
Doron Wesly: Oh, my goodness!
Susan Bratton: Is Greg like that, too? What I would have said for Greg, is he's the person who could do those FedEx commercials who talks really fast [xx], that’s Greg Stuart. Who I was talking about was Geoff Ramsey.
Doron Wesly: Geoff.
Susan Bratton: Yes, oh, my God. That dude can have some slide built and move for them.
Doron Wesly: It's unbelievable, and the numbers, and he goes, “Don’t question me, I'm the researcher” which is the best line ever.
Susan Bratton: And how [xx] this, I'm going to start a company where I actually have new product and I'm just going to look at all the stuff every one else doesn’t tell people about it and be a millionaire.
Doron Wesly: Quite amazing!
Susan Bratton: He's really good, I wouldn’t put money into that deal, but he pulls it off and he's a love.
Doron Wesly: He loves being on stage [xx]. He's a magician, his wife is beautiful, he's got it going on. Do you know he has no TV at home?
Susan Bratton: Well, he's busy.
Doron Wesly: No, he doesn’t believe in television.
Susan Bratton: A lot of people don’t. You're a TV lover.
Doron Wesly: Well, I never get to watch it but I love TV.
Susan Bratton: I know because you [xx] all the time. I like TV but I like to get it from Netflicks and watch one show for a whole season in a sitting, that’s why I like that, like give me the season of “Weeds”, give me the season of “Entourage”, give me the season of “Arrested Development”, give me the season of “Rescue Me”. I love that.
Doron Wesly: It's not too much.
Susan Bratton: I stay up until two o’clock in the morning just watching those things. No, I love it, that’s what I like.
Doron Wesly: I'm the one who’s managing his TiVo, every weekend on the leading shows. I don’t even get to watch them anymore, I just delete shows because it's so full which is really sad.
Susan Bratton: Maybe you should get one of those slingboxes and send stuff to your computer because you're on the road all the time.
Doron Wesly: The question is you know where, since most mobile networks are not fast enough to actually show it in a nice way and when I'm on the tarmac for most of the time…
Susan Bratton: You are on the tarmac a lot, I know. So here's somebody I want to know about. Something is happening with John Stickway. What is it?
Doron Wesly: John moved to a different country.
Susan Bratton: Now, who’s he with?
Doron Wesly: He went to Critical Math. He's actually heading up the office in Toronto.
Susan Bratton: No way.
Doron Wesly: He is.
Susan Bratton: So, he was with PNG and he went to Critical Math with [xx] Clemens.
Doron Wesly: For 10 years, well, he went to Coke, Tim Koop went to Coke, he followed Tim to Coke, stayed there for about a year, a year and a half, then went to Critical Math.
Susan Bratton: So you think Tim will shore up Critical Math?
Doron Wesly: Who knows?
Susan Bratton: You’ll never know.
Doron Wesly: You’ll never know.
Susan Bratton: Sometimes these guys like to stay together. I know I like to work with the people that I've had that relationship with, it makes a huge difference. Joan Bradford, what's happening with Joan?
Doron Wesly: Visionary.
Susan Bratton: Yes, that’s so nice, very nice to hear. [xx].
Doron Wesly: She came from Business Week, and look at her, going to Microsoft Digital Solutions, first of all MSN, now she's head of the entire unit in terms of revenue, strong person.
Susan Bratton: What's the revenue goal there, what do you think her number is on manualized spaces?
Doron Wesly: I don’t know, but you what I asked her once, I really don’t know. I think that they are if you think Xbox, if you think about all the other solutions, I'm sure it's significant. I just don’t know what the number is. I asked her once what it was like to work for both Gates and Steve Ballmer, and she goes, “You know, they are workaholics.” I go, “What do you mean by that?”
Susan Bratton: And she's got a family, she's got a couple of daughters I think.
Doron Wesly: She does. She does. And she goes, “You know, if they ask you to come into private jet, don’t do it.” I go, “Why not?” She goes, “Well, then they're going to start working the entire time with you, and then they expect the next day a report on it, ready to go with solutions.” So quite an interesting life, strong person.
Susan Bratton: Yes, really strong.
Doron Wesly: And several strong person like that, you know, Wenda is very strong, Joan.
Susan Bratton: I've been trying to get Wenda to come on the show. I've been sending her emails, can you help me out?
Doron Wesly: We should get her on.
Susan Bratton: All right, call her up and prod her for me. I want to know how it's going on with it, MSLO, Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia where Wenda is one of those stalwart industry makers, for our world.
Doron Wesly: You should have seen her at the IB Board, everybody usually just listens, she has an opinion, and she will voice her opinion very clearly.
Susan Bratton: Good experience. I wonder how different it is from Yahoo! to go to Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia.
Doron Wesly: She's been there for a while, she was on the Board for Martha.
Susan Bratton: Is that right?
Doron Wesly: Yes.
Susan Bratton: See, I wonder though, I mean Yahoo! is young, progressive, anything in the latest fad in technology, I bet Martha Stewart Living is very stodgy and old fashioned and barely keeps up with the Internet.
Doron Wesly: Have you been there?
Susan Bratton: No, I'm just making these all up. This is what's happening in Susanland.
Doron Wesly: They’ve got several offices, but the offices in New York City are all white, so the entire office is white the cabinets, the floors, the walls, everything white, white, white, and Martha is there working during our radio shows, everything there they're actually not that stodgy.
Susan Bratton: No? Pretty good, huh?
Doron Wesly: Yes.
Susan Bratton: That’s good then, I was worried about Wenda. I was thinking, “Oh, God, she's going to miss.” But I don’t think Wenda’s particularly a technologist, I never got that out right, I think she's more like of a good businesswoman and a saleswoman anyway, right?
Doron Wesly: Yes, she's very, very good.
Susan Bratton: Do you want an additional Martha Stewart, I don’t want to interrupt that.
Doron Wesly: No, Martha did a roast on Wenda. When Wenda got into the Hall of Fame in New York City for the advertising gurus, Martha roasted her, it was pretty funny.
Susan Bratton: I bet it was good.
Doron Wesly: It was good. It was just when Martha came out of you-know-where.
Susan Bratton: Yes, the big house. Do you think it's on YouTube?
Doron Wesly: No.
Susan Bratton: That’s too bad. Adam Gerber has a new job, he's a CMO now, he left Brightcove
Doron Wesly: He did.
Susan Bratton: And he's now at Quantcast and he's going back and forth between New York and San Francisco. What do you think of Quantcast? What is Quantcast going to do that comScore and Nielsen and Alexa or whatever aren’t already doing, tell me?
Doron Wesly: I think that he knows how people are unhappy with measurements, and I think that he has a vision of providing some new tools that are not WebTrends and are not Hitwise and are not comScore media [xx], but it's the combination of site analytics and audience measurements. So they obviously do tag all the pages by bringing in some modeling into it, and Adam is much better suited for a CMO position than what it was at Brightcove. I think that the sales side of it is you need to have a blood for it. It's a different blood, and you my friend, have it.
Susan Bratton: [Makes growling sounds].
Doron Wesly: Exciting, very exciting.
Susan Bratton: You know what, I love to sell because mostly what I'd like to do is innovate, pioneer, and make my customers happy, and selling, selling things like I saw a podcast advertising now. I really enjoy it because it's a brand new medium. What I'd like to sell is the newest stuff, I love to sell experimentation and learning in the media space, whatever because that’s what I do over and over again, so yes I like the sales. I think Adam’s going to do really well at Quantcast, and I think that they have an opportunity to really do some interesting measurement, and if anybody can figure out what that needs to be around media, and audience measurements, Adam’s the one. So I think it's a good stuff for him.
Doron Wesly: Adam was always on the forefront of it.
Susan Bratton: Really good stuff.
Doron Wesly: He was the leader at the AAAA’s for the digital side of it, and he was always very outspoken about the measurement side of it, yes, he's going to be good.
Susan Bratton: And good luck to him.
Doron Wesly: He's got a great wife, great kids. His wife works for Tech [xx] which is an Israeli the MIT of Israel basically, lives in Brooklyn, he's my neighbor, so it's good.
Susan Bratton: Well, good luck to him because yes, he has a beautiful smart wife, but he also has a two-year-old and [xx] jobs, so God bless you. He's on the plane as much as you are.
Well, let's see. We’ll just do a couple more because God knows, anybody who wants to listen to this, I'm having a good time but you never know, we might be pushing our luck. So let's do just a couple more. Tom [xx] love that man. Tell me what you know about Tommy.
Doron Wesly: Tom is just a fabulous guy. He started the old timers and it's just a list where people who’ve been in the United States since 1996 are just talking to each other about what's going on in the industry and helping each other out. Tom has created an agency, has done phenomenally well by himself. He's very happy now. He's a great guy, just a good friend, really is. What do I know else about him? Well, I can't think of it right now.
Susan Bratton: I think you should take him to lunch and then come back and tell us what you found out, or we’ll have him on the show.
Doron Wesly: Tom, it's time for lunch.
Susan Bratton: Tom, come on to “Dishy Mix”. We need to know what's going on. Everyone wants to know. All right, let's see, Jason Krebs. OK, here's the only thing I can think of about Jason. He has a really cute face for a picture, like if he’s looking out for a date, I don’t know if he's married or not.
Doron Wesly: He's married and he's got a hottie.
Susan Bratton: Oh, God! Well, his Facebook picture, Jason, you look good, baby.
Doron Wesly: So, Jason is part owner of a bar in New York City.
Susan Bratton: I didn’t know that?
Doron Wesly: And I'm not going to say which bar…
Susan Bratton: Why not?
Doron Wesly: …but it's near the Forbe’s Yacht, and he has a lot of fun with it, plus his beautiful wife, and he wears [xx] a which is not bad.
Susan Bratton: No, that’s a sweet deal. That’s what's so nice about that.
Doron Wesly: That’s life. 4 Time Square, has a beautiful entrance, he's got a great office, he's doing it. He did a great job in New York Times. He did a great job over there.
Susan Bratton: It's nice to have a change.
Doron Wesly: Yes.
Susan Bratton: So here's a hint for you on the next one. She keeps sending you hamburgers.
Doron Wesly: Heidi, stop with the freaking hamburgers already, not one, even five, five! I'm going to get like heart attack from all of these hamburgers. So Heidi was at Third Screen Media, first of all, congratulation, Heidi, AOL bought them, she's very, very happy.
Susan Bratton: Yes, AOL has been on a buying spree with all our friends. What do we have that we could sell AOL?
Doron Wesly: I know.
Susan Bratton: Personal Life Media! AOL, come buy it!
Doron Wesly: Let's go!
Susan Bratton: I don’t believe they’d do any podcasting.
Doron Wesly: Why, you know, they should start.
Susan Bratton: So you don’t want Heidi to send you any burgers, what do you want?
Doron Wesly: Heidi, I want to see you in person. It's been way too long.
Susan Bratton: Send Heidi, more Heidi.
Doron Wesly: More Heidi.
Susan Bratton: More Heidi. OK, so here's the next one, Hugh McGoran.
Doron Wesly: No, no, you have to do new frame.
Susan Bratton: Yes, so Hugh, I saw him at ad:tech New York and we were at the Speakers’ Cocktail Reception or something and I was standing there with him with a couple of other guys and everything that comes out of his mouth is a riot, he's a funny guy! He's a dry, succinct, humorous man but he's name, every time I think about it, Hugh McGoran, I think about those funny names that you make up for people like “I'm a hog” and stuff like that? I always think about him being Holden McGroin.
Doron Wesly: That is too much.
Susan Bratton: So Hugh McGoran, you're always Holden McGroin to me.
Doron Wesly: The FTC will not censor this?
Susan Bratton: No.
Doron Wesly: OK, good.
Susan Bratton: No, and I think you're allowed to say groin on TV anyway.
Doron Wesly: Oh, yes, really?
Susan Bratton: Oh, yes. It's in the [xx] category.
Doron Wesly: It's so liberating. So Hugh’s still at Dakota [sp] still having fun over there. He moved to New York City. You know, every time I think about Hugh, I have to think about it when he was actually selling local newspapers online.
Susan Bratton: Oh, my gosh! That’s a tough job.
Doron Wesly: It was very difficult. He and Tom Kelly and Melinda Gibson.
Susan Bratton: I love Melinda Gibson. She's solid, she's a stalwart, too, isn’t she?
Doron Wesly: She's been pursuing the industry, yes.
Susan Bratton: Yes, she really has. So we’re ending up our final little chitty-chat about everybody we know in the industry. Well, we probably don’t like 40 people, we've got 100 but we just had do the highlights. We got the two adorable, adorable girls at the end. We've got Molly Parsely and Julie Roehm.
Doron Wesly: Well, first of all, Molly, thank you for the hug, that was so sweet of you. Again, I can't even came with the name, Facebook! Goodness gracious.
Susan Bratton: Facebook, yes, well it's just [xx].
Doron Wesly: Molly, next time you're going to hug me, just do it in person.
Susan Bratton: Yes, I want to hug, too. If you're going to hug around, I need a hug, Molly, Miss Parsely.
Doron Wesly: By the way, no more poking and no more pinching.
Susan Bratton: No, we don’t like that. We're only hugging.
Doron Wesly: If you're pinching me, at least let me know where you're pinching me.
Susan Bratton: Oh, you know where, on your little latex derrier. OK, so Julie.
Doron Wesly: Julie, such a smart woman.
Susan Bratton: What's she doing now?
Doron Wesly: She is actually trying to sell her home in Arkansas. So if you know anybody who wants to buy a home over there.
Susan Bratton: Yes, nobody wants to buy a home in Arkansas.
Doron Wesly: She knows, she knows. Such a fabulous woman. I saw her in Miami and I saw her in New York a couple of weeks ago, she really knows digital marketing. That woman was working on ad for gaming before people knew what ad for gaming was.
Susan Bratton: A [xx].
Doron Wesly: [xx]. She pushed it.
Susan Bratton: With Joe Slater, he was really a progenitor too,
Doron Wesly: Yes, she's a very, very smart person. The other thing is that she also understands brands like nobody else. When she came up with the idea of taking Hammy, which is an old brand of people who really had a fantasy about and she brought it back to life with a whole Hammy campaign, that was Julie. I think people underestimate her, and WalMart, you lose without her.
Susan Bratton: Yes, definitely, definitely. Industry, we win.
Doron Wesly: We win.
Susan Bratton: Yey, yey for Julie, she's a beauty and brains all in one package.
Doron Wesly: Do you she's got an engineering background?
Susan Bratton: No, but that doesn’t surprise me.
Doron Wesly: She is an engineer by background.
Susan Bratton: Yes, she's very analytical. Yes, I like that about her, absolutely. Well, Julie, I can tell you that although I'm not sure about the whole Arkansas thing, I have my home it's for sale on Facebook.
Doron Wesly: On Facebook?
Susan Bratton: Yes, 25.81% of the traffic to the website that I built about my house to sell my house comes from that Facebook real estate listing.
Doron Wesly: You're kidding.
Susan Bratton: No, no, no.
Doron Wesly: I don’t even know that.
Susan Bratton: Isn’t that amazing?
Doron Wesly: Did you go to Zillow.com?
Susan Bratton: Yes, I put it on Zillow, too.
Doron Wesly: Zillow is awesome.
Susan Bratton: Yes, it's fantasy pricing and it's interesting. Everybody uses the MLS, I don’t know why you need Zillow, but to get what you need is a place to have people see it who might not be looking for an agent but are just playing around and I think Zillow fulfills that requirement. So when you're selling a house, you put it everywhere.
Doron Wesly: You actually marketing ineffectively without website, I don’t even know that?
Susan Bratton: Oh, yes, I have a whole website on it. You just have to type in all modern homes in Google and you can find it. It's a really pretty site.
Doron Wesly: That’s good.
Susan Bratton: Yes, thank you. All right. So we have had a good time talking about everybody in the industry. This was so much more fun than just like “What do you do when you scuba dive? What book are you reading and those things?”
Doron Wesly: I am going scuba diving in two weeks, I'm going to Mexico.
Susan Bratton: Where in Mexico?
Doron Wesly: I'm going to Cozumel for two weeks and talk to the fish. I'm not going to talk to them about marketing, not about mix modeling, not much search advertising, I'm just going to scuba with them, and I'm going to focus on sharks.
Susan Bratton: Oh, really?
Doron Wesly: I am.
Susan Bratton: All right. Well, we're out of time to talk about that, but you're a little [xx] I like that. So, Doron, thank you. This was a lot of fun, let's go have some dinner and drink some more wine.
Doron Wesly: Sounds good. Cheers. Here's to you.
Susan Bratton: All right, everybody, that’s our last toast to our “Dishy Mix” listeners. It's Susan Bratton, thanks so much for playing with us today. I'll see you next week.
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