Episode 73: Bill Tancer on CLICK, Idea Diffusion, What We're Afraid Of and the New Bohemians

Listen Now
RSS: Subscribe
RSS: iTunes

One of the beautiful attributes of the Internet is the insight we can gain by aggregating non-personally identifiable click stream data from online users. What secret details are divulged about our humanity? What are our fears? What drives and delights us? About what do we carry false hopes? Are we more besotted with fame or money?

Get answers from Bill Tancer, GM at Hitwise and author of "CLICK: What Millions of People are Doing Online and Why It Matters - Unexpected Insights for Business and Life." Bill has been featured in Good Morning America, NPR and has his own column at Time.com where he reveals the insights he amasses from the deep data to which he has access.

Find out how three key market segments are a sure predictor of success for online websites. Meet the Young Digerati, Money and Brains and The Bohemian Mix, three psychographic segments that fuel the early adopter usage that creates critical mass for new consumer web services.

This former prosecutor turned self-avowed data geek goes from porn to Viagra to gambling to hot pics of Sarah Palin. He ticks off our greatest fears and is riveting every step of the way through this fascinating interview. Join in for a peek into the collective American psyche.

Transcript

Female: This program is brought to you by PersonalLifeMedia.com.

Susan Bratton: Welcome to DishyMix, I’m your host, Susan Bratton.  And on today’s show, you’re going to get to meet somebody who has been making around in all the most famous places, Bill Tancer.  Bill is the author of a new book called Click and he’s the general manager of a very interesting company in the media space called Hitwise.  So on today show, we’re going to talk about porn, pills and gambling, some of the favorite things we do on the internet, what we’re afraid of idea, diffusion, money and brains, I’d like to think I have a little about but not quite enough unfortunately.  And something called 1990 versus 80/20, we’ll get into this numbers because we’re with an alleged data gig.

Bill Tancer: Yes, we have a different methodology, the Nielsen and comScore, the way we collect our data is through ISPs.  There was a negative correlation between visits this library blogs ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- and the downturn economy.  The worse thing is get the more we’re going to this library blog.

Susan Bratton: That’s my favorite.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: She got the red, white and blue American flag bikini, she’s holding this ---

Bill Tancer: Don’t you know ---

Susan Bratton: --- huge rifle as big as rifle.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: And sure that on somebody’s…

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: But kind of like a mom body.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Momma’s body but still pretty good.

Bill Tancer: Our data actually shows if you look at the volumes of spam email on Viagra, it kind of matches these search terms ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- for Viagra.  And that’s one thing we talk about in the book that search terms very, very insightful terms of brand equity.  Further down the list you get the bizarre fears.

Susan Bratton: Which ones were the weirdest?

Bill Tancer: Fear of belly button was, I think it’s my favorite.

Susan Bratton: Really?

Bill Tancer: Fear of elbows, lot of fear od body parts.

Susan Bratton: Uh-huh.

Bill Tancer: Elbow is next ---

Susan Bratton: Next?

Bill Tancer: A lot of fear on the neck, yes.

Susan Bratton: Okay.  Welcome to the show Bill

Bill Tancer: Thanks for having this.

Susan Bratton: Are you a data gig?

Bill Tancer: I am, you know I’m going to have to admit that I ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- in fact I’m a data gig.

Susan Bratton: Yes, loves the numbers.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Uh-huh.

Bill Tancer: Actually goes back to be being a kid.

Susan Bratton: Oh really?

Bill Tancer: Publish story a lot, when I was in high school rather in playing outside during the summer, I went to science camp.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: That’s the first strike.

Susan Bratton: I think that’s good, I’m picking my daughter up at noon at science camp today, I told you as soon as we get done I’m going to get ---

Bill Tancer: I didn’t know what’s ---

Susan Bratton: --- my girl from science camp.

Bill Tancer: I didn’t know what’s science camp.

Susan Bratton: Oh.

Bill Tancer: I won the talent show in science camp strike two.  And strike three I did it.

Susan Bratton: What was it?

Bill Tancer: I have recited pi to 200 digits, so that’s odd ones.  That’s how much I love data.

Susan Bratton: Okay, I promise Bill’s not going to do that today on DishyMix.

Bill Tancer: Maybe next time, yes.

Susan Bratton: Yes, yes right, the next time, okay, yes that sounds good.  Well, it’s funny you start off the book Click with porns, pills, casinos, gambling apparently Americans really like that stuff.  Before we get into that just explain so it’s kind of a level set for everybody.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: How Hitwise works, you know, how you have access to all these data because it’s a little different than some of the other data companies that we might be familiar with like the Nielsens to the comScores or even polling companies like John Zogby was just on DishyMix so ---

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: --- you have a different cut, tell us about it.

Bill Tancer: Yes, we have a different methodology, the Nielsen and comScore, the way we collect our data is through ISPs that’s our primary methodology.

Susan Bratton: So Clickstream.

Bill Tancer: Clickstream, we have agreements with ISPs across the country, they install our software in their networks.  The software anonymizes and they aggregates the date, which is very important to ensure you as a privacy.

Susan Bratton: Oh yes.

Bill Tancer: And then them sold that data to our database.  The difference in that for -- in a Nielsen and a comScore, Nielsen and comScore were recruited panels.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Versus looking at network-based data.  One of the advances to our data allows us to capture much greater set data.

Susan Bratton: Yes, I was -- I was just thinking that there’s probably something now larger than terabytes of data that you did are perching over there and some huge computer room or whatever right?

Bill Tancer: Yes, mass of ---

Susan Bratton: Up in the cloud…

Bill Tancer: Yes.  You see you talk about comScore and Nielsen, you’re talking about audience measurement.

Susan Bratton: Yes, sure.

Bill Tancer: It’s like an internet crunchy, when you talk about our data it’s competitive intelligence so we use this data for us to provide our clients the inside what’s actually going on and rather than just giving your number, you need visitor number.

Susan Bratton: So, tell us where people are going, what are people love to do?

Bill Tancer: Well, you know we take it by category.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Hitwise tracks 172 different industry categories.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: But I’ll take the top ones, the number one would still be search.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: Search continues to be king.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Followed by social network.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Which is the recent one because number three is porn, which used to be number two.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: The -- just recently social networks had past porn just as if the summer…

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: In terms of ---

Susan Bratton: Traffic.

Bill Tancer: --- percentage of traffic.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.  And the what’s further down the line, do you remember?

Bill Tancer: Further down is shopping classifieds category where all our retailers are ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- you’ll be on that entertainment, when we talk about our personality blogs.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: They become very, very popular actually growing very fast right now, which is really interesting.  And there is a negative correlation between visits this library blogs and the downturn economy.  The worse thing is get the more we’re going to this library blogs.

Susan Bratton: We just want to forget about it.

Bill Tancer: Yes, distraction.

Susan Bratton: It’s interesting, it’s distraction, why are we so fascinated with celebrities?  Do you have any insight into that?

Bill Tancer: You know I wish I did, I don’t know that why I’m allowing ---

Susan Bratton: You just know how much?

Bill Tancer: I know how much and I know ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- some of the relationships and here’s a relate – this one is not in the book that’s going to be exclusive just for you guys.

Susan Bratton: Exclusive, doesn’t makes a listeners ---

Bill Tancer: Yes, so where we ---

Susan Bratton: --- straight for ---

Bill Tancer: We did this interesting analysis, we looked at those F1 segment that we track of all the 66 prison segments we have ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- this is a behavioral segmentation system.  Number one is upper crush.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Very, very excellent, it’s pretty small segment, we’ve looked at what they did a year ago and ---

Susan Bratton: They went to their shark portfolio a year ago.

Bill Tancer: Yes, they went to Schwab to Merrill Lynch to Fidelity to all of their brokerage accounts they want to – Yahoo finance, Google finance.  We looked and August of 2008 a year later, and all of those portfolios at the bottom of the list.  Where are they were going?  It was TMG, Paris Hilton, you can literally see the segment putting their head in the sand as economic conditions had gotten worse and worse and worse.

Susan Bratton: Wow.

Bill Tancer: That changed just recently.

Susan Bratton: Where everybody is going, they really have to know the numbers because they’re so bad.

Bill Tancer: Yes, this is really cool, we looked at the data what we’re seeing in a search term datas people or searching for things like how do I log into my account.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: They had been away so long.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: They forgot how to get back in.

Susan Bratton: Exactly.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: And what was this thing about the hot photos of Sarah Palin, which is by the way I went and I looked at them today.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: They’re all fake, based occurred had on ---

Bill Tancer: I know.

Susan Bratton: --- all those hot bodies.

Bill Tancer: So here’s the story behind this I also write ---

Susan Bratton: What is that?

Bill Tancer: I write for Time Magazine and write ---

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: --- and I’m on call ---

Susan Bratton: The Science of Search, I read them all ---

Bill Tancer: The Science of Search.

Susan Bratton: --- I mean I probably just read 20 of them getting ready for our interview ands they’re excellent, so ---

Bill Tancer: Oh thank you very much.

Susan Bratton: --- definitely Google Bill and read the ones that are in ---

Bill Tancer: Yes read, read the Science of Search, so here’s what happen ---

Susan Bratton: Here we go.

Bill Tancer: I’m in the airport and it’s Friday afternoon and McCain name’s pail onto the ticket and I’m thinking to myself I got to go the data and check this out, sure not ---

Susan Bratton: I’ll get to my computer.

Bill Tancer: Yes, so when our data updates for the week, our search term data, only two days later I go and I searched through a data chart, the search is for by then Palin, McCain, Obama ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Searches for Palin just through the roof.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Now when she’s getting more searches than the other three she is getting more searches than Paris Hilton and Britney Spears and this is only the Earthquake Richter Scale.

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: This is huge, my purposes was people must be looking for information about Sarah Palin because we don’t know no much about her, not the case.

Susan Bratton: You’re purposes was wrong.

Bill Tancer: Yes.  People were looking for pictures, these are very hot pictures.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: That’s what I wrote about.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: That column was the most read and most email column on time for about a week.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: It linked to my personal page, I was getting, you know a couple of hundred hits a day on a personal based, went up to about 70,000 a day just from the link to that article, my bounce rate though went up to like 80 percent, people just coming to my site and leaving because I didn’t have any pictures.

Susan Bratton: No pictures.

Bill Tancer: No hot pictures of Sarah Palin.

Susan Bratton: What was your favorite hot picture of her because I know mine?

Bill Tancer: It’s got to be the -- this may have been some photoshop I’m not sure the -- the bikini ---

Susan Bratton: Totally photoshop.

Bill Tancer: The bikini shotgun?

Susan Bratton: That’s my favorite.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: She got the red, white and blue American flag bikini, she’s holding this ---

Bill Tancer: Don’t you know ---

Susan Bratton: --- huge rifle as big as rifle ---

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: And sure that on somebody’s…

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Kind of like a mom body.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Mom-ish body but still pretty good.

Bill Tancer: I got to tell you a little bit search comes around politics ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- are the most fascinating, especially this election, I’m going to be -- I’m going to have post election ---

Susan Bratton: Great.

Bill Tancer: --- depression I think when these things done.

Susan Bratton: Oh.

Bill Tancer: Because there was so much interesting stuff happening right now, the search terms are so out of whack.  It’s hard to tell what I really thinking about, is it really Obama Antichrist, which is another column ---

Susan Bratton: Oh I didn’t read that.

Bill Tancer: --- now it’s the fourth most popular search term with Obama and ---

Susan Bratton: Wow.

Bill Tancer: You know, or is it -- all these other things were thinking about in terms of Megan McCain and whether or not she had lunch with Heidi Montague at the Ibis.

Susan Bratton: So ---

Bill Tancer: Not much about the issues.

Susan Bratton: Here -- I have a hot purposes but I want to run by.

Bill Tancer: Go.

Susan Bratton: In your book you talked a lot about Viagra spam ---

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: --- and the fact that it drives a search terms that Viagra continues to be just a super high search term and maybe you made this point or maybe I created this point in my mind, you tell me, what I’m thinking is that we’ve always had this idea that spammer sent email because they’re going to get one 100 of 1 percent of people who are going to click through and by they can make an economic case for that.  What I actually kind of discovered was that in reality they’re sending out all the email but they’re not expecting any click through, what they’re doing is every time that message hits your inbox it just is one more impression for that brand and you’ll go to Google when you’re ready to buy okay you might have got that on Tuesday or Wednesday, you’re thinking about it, you’re thinking about it, maybe you’re going to try it, you go to Google, you search, you find Viagra online, you buy it, it doesn’t really matter, there is just a volume and, you know maybe enough sellers that had all works out, is that possibility?

Bill Tancer: I’m going to personally agree with you.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: I don’t think it’s the spammers intend to not get any attract traffic from those -- those emails, I think they’re counting on thousands of a percent.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: And that’s enough to actually make a profit but I think you are right that what our data showing is there is actually -- is this branding impact ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- to hose emails.  Now, Viagra’s in a benefit from that, the other I told the dysfunction drugs you know benefit from that ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- the branding impact or data actually shows, you look at the volumes of spam email on Viagra kind of matches the search terms ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- for Viagra and that’s one thing we talked in the book that search terms very, very insightful in terms of brand equity.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: And they’re telling us that they really our link it too.

Susan Bratton: It strikes me more and more that we become in it -- in the online marketing industries so direct response, drive so search driven, so driven to that moment of purchase intend ---

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: --- that we are almost forgetting as an organization or as an industry how important it is to just continue to keep your story out the market place that people will ultimately find it, they might find you through a search Google kind of gets a lot at the benefit of all of the other brand work that happens, don’t you think?

Bill Tancer: Very true, very true.

Susan Bratton: Yes.  So, tell me about fear, one of the things that you cover in your book that I thought was fascinating was what we think about as phobias versus what people are really afraid of.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: What are people really afraid of?

Bill Tancer: Okay, this was my favorite chapter.

Susan Bratton: Was it?

Bill Tancer: All the chapters to write.  And, we kind of just stumbled upon this, we are looking at about four to five million search term in any -- search terms in any period that we gather in this data and it updates every single week in one week or just sitting in offices thinking what do we do with this data, what’s new and what do my analyst have this idea, what’s this filter all those searches for the terms that contained fear of.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: And so really quickly we just type that into our system and immediately we had a list of 1,300 unique fears that people search on and that was actually unbelievable to look at that data now they have 1,300, I can rank them in terms of their occurrences ---

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: --- volume.  And our data goes back three years I could start to look at the ebb and flow and fears and see how they change in ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- at the time we first pulled the data I think fear of flying was number one.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: The chart fear of flying it’s not always number one, it’s number one during times when non-traditional travelers are flying.

Susan Bratton: Oh that make sense.

Bill Tancer: Holidays.

Susan Bratton: The holidays, yes.  Summer.

Bill Tancer: In summer time.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: And spring break.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: You see those spikes of fear of flying, one gets really interesting now, two things.  One is that we’ve been looked at some of the traditional market research surveys around fears and we notices our list was quite different from that lost.

Susan Bratton: Yes right.

Bill Tancer: And this is one of the themes, it goes through Click, through the book is that one of the issues with traditional market research is this problem of cognitive business.

Susan Bratton: Of course.

Bill Tancer: Which sometimes people ---

Susan Bratton: people are going to tell you what you -- what they want to tell you not what’s true.

Bill Tancer: Right and they want to put themselves in advanced positive life, yes.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: So that’s one problem, the other one is gathering out a good sample.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: We noticed that social fears showed up a lot higher in our list.

Susan Bratton: That’s what was interesting to me, fear of intimacy.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Fear of people, god ---

Bill Tancer: Okay.

Susan Bratton: --- that’s high on the list like ---

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: --- think about that Bill, people -- millions of people have a fear of other ---

Bill Tancer: Of people.

Susan Bratton: --- people and we don’t think -- I don’t think about that.

Bill Tancer: You may not think about it but I started to think about it ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- and here’s the first that I think is a market researches ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- was a data gig because it’s like if I’m doing a survey, a phone survey, and try and get the people and getting a representative set.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Probably I can get the people or afraid of people.

Susan Bratton: They’re not picking up their phone?

Bill Tancer: No.  The other thing is to get further down list and get the bizarre fears.

Susan Bratton: Which one were the weirdest?

Bill Tancer: Fear of belly button one, I think it was my favorite.

Susan Bratton: Really?

Bill Tancer: Fear of elbows, lot of fear of body parts.

Susan Bratton: Uh-huh.

Bill Tancer: Elbow is next, lot of fear on the neck.

Susan Bratton: Next, okay.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: A lot of fear on the neck.

Bill Tancer: Don’t know why.  There’s ceiling fans -- my favorite ---

Susan Bratton: Oh this thing will chop your head off.

Bill Tancer: Yes, another favorite was my -- is the Rooseveltean fear of -- fear of fear.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: People are actually afraid of being afraid.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Which they probably have too much time in their hand ---

Susan Bratton: I think such get and get a hobby.

Bill Tancer: There, there is that difference and I think that’s why this day is so insightful because it really shows us based on our behavior what’s or thinking.

Susan Bratton: So I want to go to a break, thank my sponsors whom I loved dearly because they gave me the opportunity to talk to you.  That’s a good thing don’t you think.

Bill Tancer: Oh it is.

Susan Bratton: We’re with Bill Tancer, he’s written a new book called Click, I think you’re going to love it and he’s also the GM of a company called Hitwise, which gives him access to all this wonderful data.  I’m your host Susan Bratton, we’re going to take a break.  Thanks those wonderful sponsors, thank you, thank you and we’ll be right back.

***Advertisement***

Susan Bratton: We’re back, and we’re back with Bill Tancer, he’s the author of Click, it’s a great new book that takes all the Hitwise data and gives Bill an amazing insides into what drives us as human when we’re really searching in all this privacy and gives you amazing views into what’s happening with us both on a national and international level.  One other things that I wanted to talk to you about was this idea of idea diffusion, you talked about -- it was a chapter about early adapters.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: And you talked about some of the different kinds of adapters there was the Bohemian Mix, the Money and Brains, the Young Digerati, tell us about who these adapters are, these different categories and how we as marketers can find and connect with them.  So describe them and tell us how we can find them.

Bill Tancer: Yes so let me tell you a little bit about the story behind finding this guy.

Susan Bratton: Great.

Bill Tancer: So, we had another brainstorm, we were looking at YouTube and this is back October 2005.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: 2005 when YouTube on -- I think so.  But if I get the year wrong I apologize.

Susan Bratton: It’s all a blur.
Bill Tancer: We get -- it’s all a blur, we looked at how fast YouTube went from being a complete unknown to dominating the space ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- about six weeks.

Susan Bratton: Yes, it was a hockey stick.

Bill Tancer: Yes, and for those of us who have gone to business school and study diffusion of innovation we know that the cycles can be years…

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: First example the Cornfield example, 12 years for example.  Here we’re seeing innovation happening, six weeks and going through all the way through a diffusion curb.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: In the beginning of the curb there are these people called innovators and early adapters.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: And ---

Susan Bratton: By the way we’ve all read crossing the chasm.

Bill Tancer: There we go, thank god.

Susan Bratton: We’ve all read it, yes.

Bill Tancer: Someone from my generation.  As I go I speak of this events like I go to Web 2.0, I go to some action ---

Susan Bratton: And they were so young, they haven’t read it.

Bill Tancer: I thought it was Jeffrey Moore or I get this ---

Susan Bratton: Jeffrey Moore or like who?

Bill Tancer: --- confusion, what yes.

Susan Bratton: Is he the guy that does this -- with these funny movies, oh I can’t remember it, never mind just ignore me.

Bill Tancer: Yes, well I would have ---

Susan Bratton: You go ahead and tell me about early adapters.

Bill Tancer: Yes, so anyway what we figured out, when we look at this -- this diffusion that was happening in YouTube is we can actually search through our data and our data right before YouTube became really popular and looked at who was using ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- YouTube and we identified through this segmentation system we have called Claritas.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: These three prism clusters Bohemian Mix, Money and Brains and the Young Digerati ---

Susan Bratton: Young Digerati.

Bill Tancer: --- Young Digerati.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Then we went and looked at other sites that like hot Web 2.0 sites, we looked at facebook, we looked at flicker, we just went through the game and again and again and again before these sites became popular the three segments were Young Digerati, Bohemian Mix and Money and Brains.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: Soon, what we had done is if you know that curve ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- we’ve identified who’s in the very early stage of that curve.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: Some important marketers because if you know who they are then you can mark it to them.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: But we found out that another -- that we thinks even better is that if you know who they are in our system, we can search today through our system and say what are these guys doing today.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: And it gives us an indication as to what may be hot tomorrow.

Susan Bratton: Oh that’s really interesting.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: And so, is it expensive to be a Hitwise customer?

Bill Tancer: It ranges, it ranges depending on the amount of categories you’ve access to -- to the number of seats that you have, is there a wide ranges of places.

Susan Bratton: Are you not the sales guy, do you have any idea what the ranges are?

Bill Tancer: They don’t want me talk about money and the number.

Susan Bratton: You don’t need the numbers guy, numbers that not the money numbers.  I understand we will have to check that out because that’s all tantalizing to be able to know that information.  So, there’s another thing that you talked about the Parado Principle, the 80/20 rule versus something that Jacob Nielsen who’s a fabulous user interface designer really the leading UI guy I think that I’m aware of in the world, he has something called 1990, tell us a story about that.

Bill Tancer: Yes so, we are all familiar with 80/20 principle, I hope most of us are.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: But you hear it in different forms of -- I can’t remember the name of the guy been Frado -- Brado, I might have butchered his name I apologies ---

Susan Bratton: Parado for sure.

Bill Tancer: Parado for sure, Italian guy ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- realizes that in Italy 80 percent of the real estate -- in Italy it’s own by 20 percent of the population or 80 percent of the wealth, the country own by 20 percent.

Susan Bratton: Sure.

Bill Tancer: Then expands and he says okay you can get 80 percent of your revenue from 20 percent of your customers ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- and is also it’s application.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: I was on-stage of Web 2.0, it’s a weird scenario or David Sifry was behind me ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- on the counts that I was doing a keynote.

Susan Bratton: Tell everybody who Dave is?

Bill Tancer: Dave was the CEO of Technorati ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- and wonderful guy.  And we both kind of get fresh on stage at the same time.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: As a bigger speech like there’s 3,000 people in the audience and one of the guys was coordinated conference and have this idea once we both go onstage and Dave can just yell things out from the couch and so -- I’m out there speaking ---

Susan Bratton: That’s called the hot seat Bill.

Bill Tancer: Exactly, exactly.  So, so Dave yelled out the -- the Nielsen, Jacob Nielsen ratio, which is 1990.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: And how he seen that my data.  And I realized he was right, what we did is we looked at Web 2.0 properties again and we were able to separate out just the participatory portions of the site so somebody uploading a video.

Susan Bratton: Yes, sites that you’re going.

Bill Tancer: Uploading a picture.

Susan Bratton: Activity, the 90s are the people who are the lurkers, the raiders that they need them for the traffic.

Bill Tancer: Right, well for the first time we’re actually able to quantify this and what we found is that 100 percentage point of an internet visitors who are actually participating in Web 2.0 sites.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Those are the media site so YouTube flicker was 100 percentage point.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Then the nine percent were actually engaging with the content actively so maybe comments versus actually uploading something.  I then finally the rest of us are just static viewers ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: 90 percent of static viewers and we saw this percentage ruined and carry through a number of Web 2.0 sites.  It’s interesting we did that about three years ago and I’ve been tracking ever since, every single month.

Susan Bratton: Okay.

Bill Tancer: My high purpose is I’m usually wrong in my purposes right?

Susan Bratton: I like that you say that throughout the program, like well I was wrong but here’s we did fine.

Bill Tancer: Right.  I’m actually somebody who gets excited when I’m wrong because that means ---

Susan Bratton: Sure.

Bill Tancer: --- I’ve missed something or there are something counter intruder of the data that’s just ready for me to discover.

Susan Bratton: Sure.

Bill Tancer: And so, my purposes was representing just going to creep up overtime as we all as a society get more used to participating Web 2.0.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Hasn’t happen.

Susan Bratton: Uh-huh.

Bill Tancer: The last two years it stayed flat.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: It hasn’t gone above percentage point for the media uploading sites.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Which I think it’s very significant.

Susan Bratton: You might like to read a couple of blog posts that Joseph Coroebus did for me as a guest blogger on my DishyMix blog.  He is a brain scientist and he actually -- someone wrote in and asked him a question how come, I see this 199 data and he wrote the actually kind of physiological reasons that it’s tied to human behavior and that you’re not seeing you should stay to creep up is because of the way we’re wired and who we are and you might enjoy this post.  As a matter of fact, what I’ll do is, I’ll link, when we post your show up, I’ll add those links to those pages to kind of fill in the blanks for everybody who’s listing so they can read that too.

Bill Tancer: And if you do that I’m going to link to some charts and data 1990 back to you.

Susan Bratton: Perfect.

Bill Tancer: So we’ll just have this ---

Susan Bratton: Oh we’ve got just list ---

Bill Tancer: Perfect storm.

Susan Bratton: --- some [xx] link action it’s so good, all right.  So, I just want to close up the show by talking to you about where you came from because you have always been a gig apparently since you started with science camp but all that good stuff.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: But you started out in a very different field, tell us the story of what you used to do and how you got where you are today.

Bill Tancer: So right out of school, and this shocks a lot of people that know me, right out of school I went to law school and then went into the navy and I was a navy jack prosecutor.  First to the submarine base in Kings Bay, Georgia, and I was transferred out here to California.  And it was --

Susan Bratton: Where did you grow up?

Bill Tancer: Grow up in Palm Beach County, Florida.

Susan Bratton: Oh in Florida?

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: All right.

Bill Tancer: Yes.  Born and raise there.  I got transferred out here to California and as my term was up in the navy ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- something were just calling me to go back to what it really the data technology, it was pre-internet browser ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- I got a job just answering the phones of this very small ISP and then from there I was a head of customer support sales, just you know all the forward facing things at this little ISP and that’s what got me into the internet space and I haven’t relaxed since I was in early ‘90s.

Susan Bratton: That’s what happened to all of us, we saw the power and the potential of the web and we had to be there in whatever form that would take us.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: When did you turn into this data guy?

Bill Tancer: Slowly over time, again I was headed in my ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- genes I think back from my childhood but I was looking and all these things that were happening on the internet, I always thought to myself there’s got to be this amazing data behind what’s happening is the internet becomes more and more and more in our lives.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: We’re living behind these trails that I’m not so much interest in tracking individuals ---

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: --- I want to know any aggregate what can it tell us about society ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- I know there is some nuggets there, just a matter of finding.

Susan Bratton: Just like the one where you realize that the fears were all the social fears ---

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: --- that does with the biggest thing that were afraid of connection and intimacy and all those things.

Bill Tancer: Exactly, yes.

Susan Bratton: Well, I know all about that, right Personal Life Media.  So, how has it been for you, you have a lot of fame now, you’re pretty important guy, you blog for time, you have a book out, it’s probably not your last, I think you’re -- I think you’ve enjoyed -- yes or no?

Bill Tancer: Yes, it’s a ---

Susan Bratton: You might do another?

Bill Tancer: I think I would.

Susan Bratton: I think you got another book in you too.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: I think this information is too juicy to keep to yourself right.

Bill Tancer: Um-hmm.

Susan Bratton: It needs a bit wider platform, you’ve been on Good Morning America, NPR, what are some of the -- how is all that been for you, you’ve always been a big speaker, you’ve always worked all of the -- you know the conferences and things but now you’re on television and the radio and national news and all those kinds of things.  How -- how is it?

Bill Tancer: It’s actually great.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Think and love about it most.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Is you can tell I’m kind of passionate about this topic?

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: The greatest thing is going on the shows where the audiences probably completely unfamiliar.

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: Just helping out ---

Susan Bratton: You’re talking to your people, on DishyMix.

Bill Tancer: On DishyMix, yes you are my peeps ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- and you guys are listening.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: You, you love data probably I just want to make sometimes ---

Susan Bratton: Exactly.

Bill Tancer: --- somehow more than I do.

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: But on GMA you know talking to consumer on its ---

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: --- on the Carson Daly show.

Susan Bratton: Yes you love that one.

Bill Tancer: I love that one, here’s why because it’s -- the audience is completely unfamiliar with the concept.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Usually the host but not in Carson’s case is actually I think he’s a real data gig maybe as much as I am.

Susan Bratton: I guess so.

Bill Tancer: He had write the book, cover to cover and all sorts of great question.  But it’s about kind of taking this concept and just talking to -- just everybody about it, when I do that I get these questions back from people from all walks of life or if you did that maybe you should look at this and ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- some of those insides were actually the best when we reached out to people beyond our own kind of fear ---

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: --- of influence and talk to people outside, they used to have great ideas since I ---

Susan Bratton: Right.

Bill Tancer: I’ve loved that about it.

Susan Bratton: Yes, it gives you only dimension to consider ---

Bill Tancer: Absolutely.

Susan Bratton: --- your work I think that’s what you’re getting.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Yes, that’s great.  Well, you’ve been running around like a crazy man, getting your book out, doing all this work, what are you doing to take care of yourself, what are you doing to chill or have some fun?  Tell us about that.

Bill Tancer: Well, you know my first -- my first reaction to say charting, you know actually ---

Susan Bratton: Charting?

Bill Tancer: --- data.

Susan Bratton: Stop it.

Bill Tancer: I know.

Susan Bratton: No, no, no, no, no, no.

Bill Tancer: This is what -- I find solace on this data but I’m really, here’s what’s happen, my wife has instituted a rule in the house.

Susan Bratton: Good.

Bill Tancer: And after 8:00 p.m., computer is closed ---

Susan Bratton: No charting.

Bill Tancer: No charting, no data.

Susan Bratton: No twittering.

Bill Tancer: Because I was -- I would literally sit there on the couch, I would chart everything I saw, see TV commercial, see some product placement chart.

Susan Bratton: Why?

Bill Tancer: So no charting, if I’m really going to -- I’m a big into barbeque.  I spent a lot of time in the south, went to law school in the south.  So, I’ve got a big remix smoker.

Susan Bratton: Oh yes, I love that, they’re so ready, I love the way they’re enameled on the outside.

Bill Tancer: Yes, it take like a brisket, like a 20-hour brisket.

Susan Bratton: I love a brisket.

Bill Tancer: Yes, bucket of beer.

Susan Bratton: Yes.

Bill Tancer: Out in the patio.

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: My smoker going ---

Susan Bratton: Um-hmm.

Bill Tancer: --- maybe little bit of a carbon footprint, you know I’m sorry about that but the end result in just a process of taking that raw meat to ---

Susan Bratton: Smoking it.

Bill Tancer: --- amazing barbeque.

Susan Bratton: Oh my god, my mouth is watering.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: I love a smoked brisket.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: In the egg, the egg rocks, one of the friends has one of those, it’s beautiful.

Bill Tancer: Yes.

Susan Bratton: Well on that note I think we should go to lunch, what do you say?

Bill Tancer: You got it.

Susan Bratton: All right, let’s go have some barbeque.

Bill Tancer: Okay.

Susan Bratton: Well, I hope you’ve had fun with Bill, it’s been great, I hope you’ll check out his book, I have a couple of autograph copies, thanks for bringing this today Bill, I appreciate it.  Now you wouldn’t actually be able to sell their autograph, it looks like a childhood scroll on them ---

Bill Tancer: No, that’s a real signature

Susan Bratton: But apparently Bill has a special pen and he’s actually autographed these two copies of Click that I have for you with his special pen.  So maybe the special pen can compensate for the child like scroll of Bill’s handwriting, he’s like here’s me.

Bill Tancer: I’m real scarred.

Susan Bratton: I’m sad, I’ll buy you an extra -- I’ll give you an extra rib.  So, yes I have two copies of Click for you and you know how to get him by now, you know the drill, go to facebook, type in DishyMix, it’s all one word, post your desire, you are the deserving should that should have the Bill Tancer autographed copy of Click and you may just be the lucky recipient, we’d love to give you one, and also Bill you’re open on facebook to having people click to you too right?

Bill Tancer: Absolutely.

Susan Bratton: You love it.

Bill Tancer: I did had my time column, one of my columns are very ---

Susan Bratton: You penned yourself about time.

Bill Tancer: Anyone -- you happen to buy a ---

Susan Bratton: You got 1,600 people.

Bill Tancer: Yes, bring me up.

Susan Bratton: Yes good, I love it too, we all want to be -- let’s all be friends.  All right, we’re going to go have some barbeque, I hope you get a copy of Click, I’m your host Susan Bratton, have a great day.