Episode 14: Understanding Patterns in Your Market with Guest Al Joy

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Jason Interviews Al Joy, personal adviser and consultant. Al explains how you must know your market as well as see the patterns that can predict the future. In this wide-ranging, not-to-be-missed interview on Coaching the Life Coach, Al exposes you to wisdom from multiple domains and modalities.


Understanding Patterns in Your Market with Guest Al Joy

Announcer:  This program is brought to you by personallifemedia.com.


Jason McClain: Welcome to Coaching the Life Coach.  I’m your host, Jason McClain, and your guide in the 21st-century marketplace.

“One of the things I would tell a beginning person to do is first assess those things.  Assess their ability to actually, again, know why I’m doing this, and that will set the structure…  They have to understand the purpose of coaching is that individuals must come to a point where they have reached the limit of their own proficiency, and that you have a tool skill that can be added or supplement their abilities, to add to their abilities, to help them get to another level…  You know the current state people are looking at now; they’re being tested on their identities and whether they actually represent, as opposed to what they say they represent…  Okay, I use the solar system, basically.  I use astrology, the solar system, psychology, economics, you know, philosophical belief systems the individual is organized by.  I look at what systems organize a person and what proficiencies have been achieved before they were organized…  And so you would have to come in contact with, the world is about to go through some through some radical ‘shippy bibbles’, and if it goes through these ‘shippy bibbles’ it no longer can rely on the family structure or the old institutions to assist them to adjust to the new information…”


Jason McClain: We’re with Al Joy, of Al Joy Consulting.  Welcome to the show, Al.

Al Joy: Thank you, Jason.  Glad to be here.

Jason McClain: The first question I have for you is ‘what structure can beginning coaches employ in their practice that would assist them in building their business?’

Al Joy: Well the first thing, if I was talking to a beginning coach, he would have to structure… first recognize what my expectation is for my coaching practice, and that would set the parameters.  What kind of clients he has an expectation of serving, and what is the revenue base that he would like to make, since this is a business.  Because he needs a way to measure his performance, and if you cannot measure what you’re doing in this business, you can easily get lost.  You also have to look at how do you verify how well you’re doing when you’re doing it; you know, what are the checks and balances that you use as a professional to make sure you’re giving the best advice to your clients.  So you need that also.  So one of the things I would tell a beginning person to do is first assess those things.  Assess their ability to actually, again, know why I’m doing this, and that will set the structure.  Then if I’m doing it in terms of trying to get known, then I have to introduce myself.  I could do… you know you could do advertising in newspapers and stuff like that, but you want to create a word-of-mouth about yourself.  You want to have consistency in terms of clients who can afford your service.  Just because a person has a need, they may not be able to afford coaching.  And you have to look at what other…the community by which you’re in, or the group.  What are the ways they are currently using to get additional information that will assist them in their lives?

Jason McClain: I want to back up just a little bit, because there’s something you said that I think is really critical and that is the ability to measure your results.  Can you speak a little bit about that, both in terms of your efficacy as a coach, but as well as your advertising dollars?  And I know you said word of mouth is far more critical… as far as ‘effective’ marketing dollars.

Al Joy: Well again, let’s say you go into randomly shooting out there.  You got a newspaper ad and you get in and you think you’re going to be a coach and just because you have an intention in your head and you think that, “Oh, I can help people; I have a desire to help people...” Okay?

Jason McClain: Right.

Al Joy: Well, you have to… if you can’t take into account that there’s competition out there, and we’re being bombarded every day with the Internet available, so people can actually mine data.  They can go out and get information themselves.  The purpose of coaching… they have to understand the purpose of coaching, is that individuals must come to a point where they have reached the limit of their own proficiency, and that you have a tool skill that can be added or supplement their ability, to add to their abilities, to help them get to another level.  And you have to be able to measure whether or not your input is actually helpful to that particular type of client, and how that particular type of client is utilizing you and your information in their lives.  Sometimes you can want to help a person, and they’re taking the information that you’re giving them and misusing it.  So you have to be very clear – one – and you have to have some point of being able to measure results, because that’s what you’re there for.

Jason McClain: And what are some of the ways that you have employed in your own practice, in terms of measuring results?

Al Joy: Well first… [laughs]

Jason McClain: You know, I could explain the ways I use in my practice, but you’re the expert.

Al Joy: Yeah, my practice is a little different because I use a series of building blocks for my clients.  I reckon there are certain energy levels that a client must master to actually have proficiency in certain areas of life.  And whether or not they have those proficiencies or lack those proficiencies, and what will be the results from that.  We then look at… the client comes and they have whatever issue they’re having or whatever reason they have chosen me to be involved in their lives, and I have chosen to be a professional in their lives.  At that point I have to know what their perceptive levels are and what they’re attempting to achieve and whether they have the capacity to achieve that, whether they can even incorporate information.  At that point we’re looking at certain outcome should take place, relatively simplistically, that you know, the degree of effort versus the degree of outcome, and the degree of conflict, or whether or not my client only sees reality through condition, or whether they can actually see it in a cognitive conscious decision-making, or they’re affected by the environment.  If they’re affected by the environment and they only see conditions, then I will have to be very careful that ultimately I will not become a condition.

Jason McClain: Right.

Al Joy: I will have to look at my client in terms of their own life cycles, and what repeated patterns take place in their lives.  And often those repeated patterns take place in my client’s life, so that I try to help my client become aware of their own cyclic lives inside of themselves.  You know they have… there’s time periods and phases, they just repeat things.  Human beings live on the replication.  And so I’ll have to look at how often this pattern takes place, and how often have these outcomes been taking place, with what degree of consistency, and we will have to address that the system is trying to create these experiences.  Even though he wants another experience, there’s more energy going in creating the experience than in creating something different.   And so that gives us a point of measurement, by actually looking at where the client…what organically the client is producing, himself.  And then, what is required to get to the other side?  And what energetic mastery needs to take place, and does he or she believe they have enough, or they are enough, to get to that place?  And then we can start measuring things.  We can start measuring our relationship, you know, the amount of time, or the amount of additional replicated behavior necessary to out-replicate the negative behavior, or the negative outcomes that are achieving in their lives.

Jason McClain: Gotcha.  And so, for those beginning coaches out there who are listening, or journeymen coaches, can you speak to a little bit about what it makes possible in their business, and their lives, and their own satisfaction and fulfillment, and their own development, if they start to put their eye on measuring their own results, not only in their business but with their clients’ outcomes?

Al Joy: Well again, it’s the approach the coach is using to achieve his end, you know.

Jason McClain: Exactly.

Al Joy: If the type of client, the type of environment that they’re working in, the type of income and the client’s ability to add information, or another person supplying information in their lives.  You know, certain communities, especially if you go through the educational systems, has taught us to rely on ourselves, and that we may not use other people to assist us, because that’ll be cheating.  All right so, we have to look at, number one, changing certain people’s views about coaching and certain people’s views about having someone else supplement their knowledge base, to increase them in evolving in a world that is changing rapidly.  And also they would have to be able to change themselves on a continuous basis, based upon the amount of new information and technology that is coming out, to stay current with their client, and the issues that the client will be having.  They would have to have a larger perspective at which they’re measuring their involvement.  They would have to get away from self as a context and self as a technology.  And constantly increasing the amount of knowledge that they have about the dynamics of how things work, and who they are dynamically within relationship to something else.  And that would have to be a point of measurement.  So when you start with your business, you first would have to have to say, “You’re doing word of mouth.”  Word of mouth is always good, because that means you’re getting referrals.  And you want to… and again, this goes back to the intent of the coach.  If the coach is in a very humanistic world, then they’re dealing with a certain type of issue.  You’re looking at people who have not resolved either the mother or they have not resolved the family, or matured through the family, and they may have difficulties with processing their own emotions, or processing interactions or processing being in groups without seeing it conditionally.  If you’re looking at people who are actually advancing the world, who may be completely disconnected from experiences that are being artificially created, they may need to be in energetic connection with information, at a rate of speed by which they can still process, and not exist in the current world as it is.  They’re designed to bring information beyond that, but they’re living within a world that may not be feeding them that information.  And so to assist those clients, you have to get them, and maintain them, in contact with their intention, and their intentions are how they’re being used to advance on it.  So in those particular worlds, you’re looking at one’s own personal sense of gratification and one’s own personal sense of purpose, but one’s ability to constantly improve on one’s self as a technology, for usage and a futuristic usage and the longevity of the career.  Like some people’s careers, even though they started coaching now, they won’t even show up until society gets at a certain place and puts a certain amount of pressure on a group of people who then will have no other information or places to go to when they need assistance.  Some people don’t even realize they need coaching, so they may be starting in coaching now, but their practices may not come to fruition until 2012.  And so they would have to recognize, do they have the attrition to maintain their practices and be more cognitive of their greater intention and their greater social usage.  And they would have to be able to become aware of that and often take their practice outside of current social constructs, like if they’re judging their practice as a means to sustain them; it may not sustain them until three or four years from now.  Or how long does it take the career, based upon what type of information that is dictating their client base.  So those things… if I was talking on a particular coach, I will have to look a lot more at how they’re organizing running their own lives, how they’re organized, and in condition to approach life, the kind of continued experiences they’ve been having and observing, and their ability to act toward something and not be victimized by things.  So that’s one of the first things.  And being able to mature, in terms of being self-reliable.  You know, the current state people are looking at now; they’re being tested on their identities and what they actually represent, as opposed to what they say they represent.

Jason McClain: If I may, that leads us really perfectly into the next question.  What is it that you specialize in, in your own practice?

Al Joy: I specialize in how the future is manifesting and generating and creating people.  And the way by which they process information, and the way by which certain information is processed, is no longer selected by the greater societal structure as relevant.  And so many people find themselves in constant states of issue without having the outlet to find gratification; or the way by which gratification is currently being met, their systems don’t seek it that way, and the way they seek it is no longer available.  And it’s trying to help people come to terms with not going into the future with a great deal of unresolved conflictual contexts, because they’re not relevant.  And understand how the current societal structure is generating human interaction, and the ability to be proficient in that.  That’s what I do.

Jason McClain: And can you speak of some of the different relationship models that you use as one of your lenses?

Al Joy: Okay, I use the solar system, basically.  I use astrology, the solar system, psychology, economics, you know, philosophical belief systems the individual is organized by.  I look at what systems organize a person and what proficiencies have been achieved before they were organized.  Like if you take a person who…  If we look at a whale, Free Willy, and we did not condition Willy to be raised by his mother, and we trained him in Sea World, when we release him to the Atlantic Ocean he’s lost.  He’s relied on an institutional structure to give his basis of security, but basically he has not the ability himself to go back to be that.  The fact that we no longer often come in contact with our food source means we’ve been removed from our basic security system of coming in contact with our food source or things that actually nurture us.  We get it by energy exchange, and if the energy exchange or the institutionalized structure disappears, then many people are basically lost.  Okay, we try to help them understand the underlying, and it leads to a lot of crazy behaviors, trying to get needs met.  So, one, we try to look at the underlying personality that sees devotion mastering certain energy, and has to master like devotion conformity, beliefs and responsibility, the ability to represent.  You’re looking at how many different systems or platforms can they represent, and have mastered.  So when different systems fall apart, which is what our current society is doing, then you still have the ability to re-create or adjust.  More than being stuck in what isn’t, you just shift to what is.  And so you have to master a lot of unresolved expectations and living in a world that are basically making choices that you’re in conflict with.

Jason McClain: Could you say more about that shift from living into what isn’t versus living into what is?

Al Joy: The physical body in itself operates through replication, and every part of the system…and the earlier systems operate through adjustment or having someone supplement it.  And the emotional system basically only interprets conditions.  It does not actually understand a cognitive context of how things are consciously organized.  It deals with the condition it perceives it is in.  When societal structures advance and they rip us from our emotional systems, they keep us perceiving things conditionally when it’s organized in letters and numbers.  So we’re misperceiving, and we have a lot of issues and expectations when we’re too mature to be having that particular process; we don’t understand different energy models.  And so we have a lot of conflict taking place in our societal structure, based upon misperception, that we have certain needs that we perceived need to get met certain ways, and we keep looking for that way.  For an example, if a person did not receive devotion, like each person has a basic need to have a devoted person revolving around them, and to do that you had to be in a relationship modeled dependency, a conscious person merging with an unconscious person for the purpose of creating a conscious person.  Well if that has not taken place, you find adults in adult relationships playing that game out.  One person plays dependent.  One person is blaming the other person for the involvement, or not being this and not being that, but basically they made choices.  Okay, they made a choice to be with this individual and they cannot live with their choice because they have… they’re misperceiving the model.  It’s not a dependent/independent model.

Jason McClain: One of my… It reminds me of something one of my mentors said.  He said, “Disappointment requires adequate preparation.”

Al Joy: Absolutely.   And so you know the context that our world has changed the institutionalized structure so fast that we still use the information about the structure as a way to organize ourselves, but the guts of the structure have been removed.  And so it creates a cross-bed of confusion.  When a world comes in and it starts to generate itself upon a planet, what it does it does not want the other one to replicate itself.  And so it breaks the pattern down.  So as we shift spirally, then the underpinnings must be annihilated, and so I try to help my clients understand when they go into points of annihilation.  I use the basic solar system because I believe that all matter that is created represents how matter was created at certain distances from the source.  And the same takes place on the earth and the same thing takes place in our minds, and the same thing takes place…   And I also use time, because when a planet is discovered, it brings about a certain energy that represents the distance from the source upon the planet, and then that operates in 62-year, 40, and 20-year cycles, manifestly producing people to represent that.  I also look at institutions in terms of religion and stuff like that, because what they do, they don’t exist; they’re ideas, and they convert people to represent them.  And at a certain point certain people will represent that and certain people will not be represented by that, yadda, yadda, yadda.  So when you look at a person, you have to look at how many ways they’re processed, you know, what stage do they perceive reality in.  And at what stage then are being dropped off and what people on the planet to be waste management.  They take on the waste of other people.  Some people are adjusters.  They basically represent paths, developmental phases that are no longer allowed in society, but they take place in relationships.  So I try to help people understand what roles they play on a dynamic level, and try to move beyond just definition, because if we live just by definition it locks us to a particular perspective and we’ll only operate in that symbolism.  So as to help the client understand who they are as they dynamically operate outside of who they say they are, and then live in the confliction because they cannot live to represent the idea.

Jason McClain: Perfect.  Thanks for that, Al.  Fascinating stuff.  And shifting back to business, if you could give us a strategy that you would recommend people to use in building their business, both in terms of understanding their market, and also if we incorporate this ‘incomplete relationship’ model idea.  Could you speak to that?  Tell us a good strategy to build your business?

Al Joy: Well if you look at the coach, first he must see himself as an adjuster.  And coaching and therapy and things like that were created by a societal structure.  It’s not innate.  It would have taken place in other formats, but those formats have been reduced.  So you’re playing surrogate, a surrogate family member, and so you have to understand then what part of development do you represent.  Are you getting clients with a lot of emotional issues?  Are you getting clients who have social issues?  Are you getting clients who have relationship issues?  And you first would have to look at yourself and see, you know, what you’re going to attract, all right?  If I saw the individual’s charts I could tell them, but you know, if they draw certain types or attract certain types or galvanize certain types of matter, now what they… what you don’t want to do, is you don’t want to have an idea about something, and it not be the world that you gather, so you want to know what’s true to you, that’s the first thing, not what’s true in some broad-based context, but what’s true to you.  And why you are here to adjust certain people on the planet and what are the adjustment skills that you need to assist them and where are the traps in those assistances and how have you bought into the current societal structure, you could get lost if you use your practice as your ego, if you see it as who you are and not what you do.

Jason McClain: If you’re actually identified with it.

Al Joy: If you only identify with it, but you’re not it…

Jason McClain: Right.

Al Joy: It’s not actually the way in which you live, and so you would have to come in contact with the world is about to go through some radical ‘shippy bibbles’, and if it goes thorough these ‘shippy bibbles’ it no longer can rely on the family structure or the old institutions to assist them to adjust to the new information.  And there are going to be a lot of lost individuals.  There’s a lot of lost individuals now.  Our societal structure disagrees with it.  But there are people who are designed, and you know if you’re that person; you think you’re a little gutty; you know, you’re like a spiritual paramedic.  You’re riding by, you see something, you got to turn and go back.

Jason McClain: Right, right [laughing].

Al Joy: Little Mars lights on your forehead.

Jason McClain: That’s a great metaphor, a ‘spiritual paramedic’.

Al Joy: You’re a spiritual paramedic and you’re going to assist.  Do not fall in love with the accident victim.  That don’t work.

Jason McClain: Right.  You have to stay disassociated because otherwise you might pass out in their own vomit.

Al Joy: Right, that’s right.  Do not bring your own emotional issues into that story bank because you’re getting very intimate with individuals.  Okay, so you have to understand, in that intimacy, it is not intimacy… you are a paramedic.  I don’t care how beautiful they look.

Jason McClain: And that ties back to something you said in the first question.  If they start to see you as a circumstance, or worse yet start to identify with you or attach to you as somebody who has been unresolved from their past, then you’re on a very slippery slope.

Al Joy: It’s not slippery.  It’s not slippery.  It’s a cliff.

Jason McClain: It’s a quagmire, huh?

Al Joy: Yeah, you don’t slide… you just fall into it.  And the walls!  You can’t get up the walls.  You’re going to have a negative outcome if they wind up having negative outcome as a pattern in their interactions.  You have to be very careful because that pattern seeks to replicate itself.

Jason McClain: Yeah, I completely agree.  I actually met a younger coach two weeks ago, and he recommended a book to me about how to become attached with your client.  And I thought, “My God, that’s so…it’s such a disempowering model to come from.  It doesn’t free them certainly, and in my own practice I figure my job is to free people emotionally, not have them become attached.

Al Joy: Yeah, because the emotional system is the early system.  It’s the early interpretive system that gives way to symbolism and conformity.  And so you look at people who…  One of the things when the emotional system perceives, it perceives conditions…hot/warm/cold, good/bad.  It doesn’t understand why it’s constructed.  And so when you have the emotional system in a perceived – this is when a child is helpless – when it perceives that it cannot get its needs met easily, it creates a lot of internal stress.  Then its internal stress then translates to its perceptive interactions with things.  At that point, when it comes to conform with the group, it won’t conform, because it believes the group will not supply its needs.  It will not trust the group because it couldn’t get its basic needs met within the group.  Then there are many, many people in our society who operate that way and they become antisocial, which means they can’t conform and symbolically agree to be an active member of society.

Jason McClain: Right.

Al Joy: And so you have a lot of people then who have a lot of fear.  They operate through fear and anxiety as a way of approaching things, but their trained identities, because we’ve been educated and trained like monkeys, we get trained to be in the world; a universal educational system was created in the 1840’s and stuff, and so that universal educational system was designed for an industrial world, in which we’re interfacing with something come upon the planet, yadda, yadda, yadda.  And we’re crashing with… and then inhabit the machine.  Many people are designed to live in different times.  They represent different time periods.  And different time periods was how society was organized, and they still exist, and so some people are more prone to smaller grouping.  Some people see smaller grouping as horrible.  They have fear; they have phobias in small grouping.  So when you’re dealing with a client, and this is for a coach, you need to know that your view of reality, your personal view of reality and how broad that view is; and how many different perspectives does your view hold, and are you trying to bend people to your view?  Or do you have a system large enough to incorporate the variety of views and let them be healthy in their view?  As opposed to taking them to another view?  See, thought tends to want to convert matter.  That’s all it does; it converts matter.  Thought has no form, and it converts matter to represent itself.  And so you can respect where the person is actually coming from if society respects it.

Jason McClain: Gotcha. [laughs]

Al Joy: You know the society’s a bad boy… he’s like rough.

Jason McClain: Thanks Al.  Phew!  Okay, so we’re just about out of time, but I have one final question for you.  And this is just one single organizing principle, or a critical distinction, or a way for people to view the world that we want to leave them with, or that you want to leave them with, such that it would make a difference in their lives today.  A way of thinking, a single organizing principle, or some piece of insight, what would that be for you?

Al Joy: I would first have the people look at what rationalizations they use to disconnect.  Because the world is constantly in states of connection you have to understand that you don’t receive benefit because you are regulated to disconnect before benefit.  And so you have to recognize that.  Not even so much what you perceive you connect to, because the world is too connected now, recognize what you don’t connect and recognize what is unresolved within you, and recognize how those patterns that are unresolved within you, the type of reality that it creates, and the interactions that don’t have benefit, that occupy a great deal of your life.  That is to recognize, not even what you want, because what you want is always gratify, because you survive; it’s what you perceive you don’t want.  It’s what you perceive you’re connected to that you have issue with.  I would say stay out of the issue.  That’s the biggest thing; stay out of issue, and don’t buy into the idea of a societal structure that promotes issue, and promotes you to be in internal conflict.

Jason McClain: Thank you for that, Al.  And thank you for your time.  I’ve been here with Al Joy, of Al Joy Consulting, and thanks for listening.


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