Episode 101: Seducing the Man of Your Dreams (Part One) with Arden Leigh

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Listen in as Dr. Patti talks to Arden Leigh, a former professional dominatrix who now counsels women on seduction strategies with intended paramours. She also helps the ladies revitalize and optimize currently existing relationships. Arden has studied seduction passionately, and brings a unique perspective to the dating and mating game. Learn what seduction is. Why is seduction a tool that smart women use to get closer to the man they want? Do the old rules work anymore? Do any rules work? Learn how to play a winning game. We follow the seduction of Johnny Depp as an example! Dr. Patti is inspired by Arden’s strategies. (Watch out, now, Johnny!) How does sex fit into all of this? An amazingly fun show!

Transcript

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the Expanded Lovemaking show. I’m your host Dr. Patti Taylor of expandedlovemaking.com, and I teach you how to make exquisite love. This is part one of a two-part series. We’re talking about secrets to seducing a man. Now Expanded Lovemaking covers every topic, a lot of ground. I often ponder with my guests lots of topics, like how to have good orgasms or how to have an amazing long-term relationship, basically anything longer than through lunch in this day and age. So where does seduction fit in? Is this just a show for single people? Listen up; this show is for everybody. The way I see it we are all single people, and I’ve never met anyone who couldn’t benefit from sharpening his or her skills of seduction. And with that introduction I am so pleased to welcome our guest for today, Arden Leigh. Hi Arden and welcome.

Arden Leigh: Hi Patti. It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Oh I am so delighted. Well let me tell our listeners a little bit about you Arden. Arden is a relationship coach who coaches women from all walks of life in the arts of seduction, as well as the fine points in maintaining and renewing good relationships, and probably all other relationships as well. She’s the author of an upcoming book, Whipped: A Professional Dominatrix Shares the Secrets to Wrapping Men Around Your Little Finger. And she’s located in New York City, New York and works with clients over the phone and in person. Listeners, if you’re a man, I think you’ll want to know some of the ways a designing woman might put extra special attention on you. And if you’re a woman, well you’re going to get lots of suggestions in this show about what to do with the man whose caught your eye. Well lets get started then. Arden, you teach women how to seduce men, is that correct?

Arden Leigh: That is absolutely correct.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Is that ethical?

Arden Leigh: Is it ethical? As far as I’m concerned, seduction is a tool just like a hammer, and you can use a hammer to put a nail into a piece of wood to build a beautiful house or you can use a hammer to knock someone in the kneecap. Everyone’s, I don’t get terribly preachy about ethics because everyone’s ethics are going to be different. I certainly am very staunch about my own personal ethics. I always believe in leaving someone better than you found them. You know, basically using seduction as, you know, sort of, as I mentioned, as a tool for creation rather than destruction.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well that sounds good to me, and as somebody who loves to go out and seduce people, I certainly feel better hearing that. Well lets go on then. Why don’t we define seduction, moving right along then.

Arden Leigh: Absolutely. Well the dictionary basically, the dictionary doesn’t like the word seduction very much. Most modern dictionaries are going to tell you that seduction means to lead someone astray, in a sense that, you know, that there’s some sort of, on a path that there’s some sort of moral wrongdoing, that you’re leading them… But what I really believe is that when you’re leading someone in seduction, in a romantic seduction, that you are taking them on a journey and that you are creating an emotional experience for them. I also believe that seduction is the marketing of the self. So seduction is not necessarily just tailored to one person all the time, you can… You know, there has been movie stars and politicians who have seduced a nation. So that can also be another definition of seduction. Of course there’s also the one on one seduction, which I believe is mostly about creating an emotional experience, and at its best is a gift to the seduced.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow, well that’s a really great definition, and I think we’ll probably be focusing more on the one on one seduction. I’m just thinking, a lot of the rules I learned on seduction, I probably learned about, you know, well, growing up, you know, like always, you know, let a guy talk about sports cars and…

Arden Leigh: Right.

Dr. Patti Taylor: They’re kind of stupid actually, and they don’t work.

Arden Leigh: Yeah, I get on a soapbox every once in a while about the seduction literature that is available to women today and how either outdated or incomplete I feel that it is.

Dr. Patti Taylor: It’s very… Well, what don’t you like? And then tell me what you do like.

Arden Leigh: Well a lot of the literature, the first thing I mentioned is that it’s, it’s outdated. There are a lot of books out there that still refer to things like, for example, you know, a certain guideline just to give an example off the top of my head is, you know, if he wants to go out on Saturday night date with you then he has to call you by Wednesday, and this might be fine for someone who is working a nine to five job, but pretty much all the jobs that I’ve had in my, you know, in my life as a young woman since I’ve graduated college, I’ve worked Saturday nights. I’ve been a bartender, I’ve been a makeup artist, I’ve been, you know, a professional dominatrix, and the people who write that sort of material are just telling me that they don’t live in my world. As another example, there’s also a lot of advice that says, you know, “Well don’t call him. You know, if you need to hear his voice call his answering machine while he’s, call his home answering machine while he’s at work so you can hear his voice on the answering machine, and that’ll give you your fix.” Well of course nowadays we have caller ID. You know, very few people even use a home phone anymore, they’re always on their cell phones, so if you called someone, you know, ten times while he was away at work he’s going to see that you called. A lot of the advice out there just simply doesn’t apply today’s world. Another reason that I dislike it is that there are a lot of people out there in the world who are telling women, attempting to tell women everyday how to be sexy, and it’s really not in a woman’s best interest, it’s in the company’s best interests. It’s in the interests of the person who is selling the push-up bra, the lipstick, the, you know, the magazine with, you know, 50 moves to make in bed, and I think that, you know, their intentions are not terribly far off the mark I guess – I mean I love lingerie, I wear lipstick and, you know, I’m certainly very open minded about the moves that I make in bed – but it’s far from complete, you know. And if a woman is going to seduce a man and that’s all she has going into the seduction, that’s all she has in her arsenal, she’s pretty much entering a game of Chess with a set of Checkers.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So what I’m hearing you say is that, it almost sounds like these rules that you object to, despite the fact that some of them might be technologically outdated, is the other ones sound that they’re very either simplistic and one size fits all, like they come from, you know, a marketing campaign, well you don’t know me, I mean how do you know if that’s my color…

Arden Leigh: Right. Exactly.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Or they’re manipulative. Like there’s a rule like always wait five days before you call someone, which is sort of like treating you as you’re not very smart, and then you come in, from what I’ve read from you is that you have highly orchestrated campaigns to really get the guy that you want.

Arden Leigh: Right. I’ll actually tell you my…

Dr. Patti Taylor: I think we’re a lot smarter than that, right?

Arden Leigh: I’ll actually tell you my main objection to the, you know, wait three to five days before you call him rule is not so much that it’s manipulative, but more that it’s predictable. Every woman has been told, you know, “Don’t call a guy that you met until, you know, three to five days”, so, you know, “Definitely don’t call him for three to five days unless you’re interested in him.” So the minute you call him three to five days later that’s pretty much saying to the guy, “Oh, I’m interested in you. That’s why I waited three to five days.” If you don’t care about a guy, you know, if you’re not terribly emotionally invested in him and you don’t have that much interest to convey to him, you’re not really going to care when you call him, you know. One of the things I like to do if I’ve just met someone and I’m planning on, you know, potentially opening the door for a seduction to happen, I like to call him the same night that I’ve met him. I leave the bar, I wait for, you know, I don’t know, half hour, an hour, whatever, and I’ll call him and say, “Hey, you know, I’m grabbing dinner at a diner late night, a 24 hour diner with some friends, you know. Why don’t you come on over or whatever.” Because then what he’s going to think is like, “Oh, well here’s a woman who doesn’t, quote/unquote, ‘play games’, because she’s not waiting for the five day rule.” So then in the future when I actually don’t call him for maybe three to five days at a time, he’s going to think that I’m actually genuinely busy because he’s already qualified me as not being a game player.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I’m glad you brought that up because for all the girlfriends I have, if I could eliminate that one conversation I think that I would clear the decks for so much more real conversation, but it does, so much conversation centers around, “Should I call him or not?”, and I mean, how much longer are women going to have to be in that, or do they have to be in that conversation? Is that a real thing? Can women call a man, you know. I mean it seems like such a scary thing, like are women allowed to.
Arden Leigh: Yeah, that’s very true. I think there certainly is, and the reason for, you know, the reason for all this folklore out there about not only when to call him, but how long to stay on the phone, etcetera, is that it’s basically trying to rain in women’s impulsive to call way too much and to talk way too much, because women are, I think it’s fair to say that women are a lot more naturally conversational (unintelligible), right? That’s pretty, that’s a pretty fair generalization I think. And…

Dr. Patti Taylor: Keep talking.

Arden Leigh: And I do sort of agree with the intention that’s behind it, is that if you do call too often and you demonstrate too much interest, you know, the first thing that they guy is going to think is, “Oh easy prey” or “I’ve got this one in the bag” or “I don’t have to try too hard to impress her.” So what I recommend – and not only with phone calls, but with most reciprocal actions in seduction – is I recommend pacing your target. And pacing is a term that they use in hypnosis a little bit which basically means that you’re mirroring them, you are following their lead. So if a guy calls me a lot, if he’s calling me, you know, like every night or, you know, every lunch break or twice a day or whatever, then sure, of course I’m going to call him, you know, more than once a week or whatever because I also, you know, I want - assuming that that’s a good thing – I want to reward that behavior and I want to call him back and encourage him to keep doing that. But if he’s only calling me once a week and I’m calling him every night, that’s, there’s, you know, Houston we have a problem.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right.

Arden Leigh: Yeah. So you really… And so much of seduction is really about placing your focus on the other person and figuring out where they are and sort of meeting them there before you take them where you want them to go. So if, yeah, if you’re calling them, if you’re calling them way too much or staying on the phone way too long, then that’s definitely not going to help your cause. What I really dislike about some literature that’s out there though is that it gives these really strict rules like, you know, don’t call for three to five days or don’t stay on the phone longer than ten minutes. What it’s basically telling women to do is to rely on these inauthentic states of romantic depravation.

Dr. Patti Taylor: You know, I hate that, and I’ll tell you, men have the same things, and I think it’s just stupid. I remember a lot of men went through this course, it was very fashionable for a while out here on the other coast where all kinds of crazy things happen. And you were never allowed to call a woman for a week after you met her, and they had all these secrets in this course and you were never allowed to tell her what went on in this. And I just always thought it was like a little dehumanizing, and I thought I would never date a man…

Arden Leigh: I don’t blame you. I don’t blame you. And also I think, you know, some women… Every woman is different, and to lay these rules down like, yeah, it’s cookie cutter, it’s like one size fits all, and there are going to be certain women that, you know, maybe will respond better to being called more often than others or, you know, but basically this is where pacing comes in, this is where you really have to mirror what the other person is doing in order to… I think everyone, for something like that, has a setting that’s like normal, you know? They’re like, “Okay, well it’s normal for me to call once a week” or “It’s normal for me to call three times a week”, or once a day or whatever, and you know, the person who calls more than that is going to appear, you know, too needy, or the person who calls less than that might appear too distant, which is not always a bad thing but sometimes. And so you really have to sort of put yourselves in that person’s world, in that person’s frame before you can lead them on to your own turf.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well good. So we’re going to take a break, and after we come back I want to kind of set up a little seduction with someone. So this is Dr. Patti Taylor, and we are talking with Arden Leigh. And you can learn more about Arden at her website, ardenleigh.typepad.com and I’ll spell that for you. It’s a-r-d-e-n, l-e-i-g-h, dot typepad, t-y-p-e-p-a-d, dot com, and of course you can always go to her page at personallifemedia.com. So please stay with us, we’ll be right back, and I just want to say Arden has a great website. It’s a blog and I subscribe to it. She writes the best stuff, so please… I’ll give that address out again and you absolutely have to go and read her stuff. Please stay with us and we’ll be right back.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re back and we’re talking about secrets to seducing a man. Lets say – and I’m going to follow along with one of your recent blog entries here, so, and I kind of like doing this, so anyone intrigued by what we’re talking about can really fill in the details, which are exquisitely written about in your blog – but lets say I have an inkling for Johnny Depp, who…

Arden Leigh: Ah, yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: doesn’t… I mean, it’s true, you know, I think he has someone, and I may have someone too, I’m not going to say right now, but… Lets just say that, you know, in another world, could happen tomorrow, I wanted to go out for him. Could you have me lay out a strategy?

Arden Leigh: Absolutely. Well just to bring your listeners up to speed, I was, as I mentioned in this particular blog entry, I was out watching Public Enemies the other night, the night that it came out. It was a very, very good movie, but of course, you know, watching Johnny Depp on screen I got kind of distracted. And this is just the way that my brain works is I started thinking and was like, wow, now there’s, you know, there’s basically the man that every woman wants, you know. I think, I think it’s, I think it’s fairly unanimous (unintelligible), but he’s definitely the one I hear the most about anyway when people talk about their, you know, their ideal dream partners or whatever. And there’s this concept in a marketing book ironically – or maybe not so ironically ‘cause I think marketing is so linked to seduction – called Made To Stick by Chip and Dan Heath, which they call, I believe they call it the Frank Sinatra Test, which is basically they say, you know, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere, which means that, you know, the example they give is a small distribution company who was responsible for distributing the first run of the Harry Potter book. And so of course their reputation went, you know, skyrocketed because they said basically, “We can handle the release of the Harry Potter book, we can basically, you know, handle the distribution of just about anything.” And that’s kind of what I, what was going through my head is I thought, you know, if I could figure out how to seduce Johnny Depp I’m pretty sure I could figure out how to seduce just about anybody. So obviously when you’re dealing with a celebrity the rules are a little bit different because you’re dealing with someone who is a highly sought after target, and they doubtless get women who are after them all the time. You know, I think someone like Johnny Depp, you know everyone, when he runs into a street, is going to drool over him.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah. And if you’re in love with some guy, he is your Johnny Depp for (unintelligible), right?

Arden Leigh: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So I think we can all insert the man of our dreams into Johnny Depp. I’m crazy about Johnny Depp, so you couldn’t have picked a more amazing guy, but lets go on. Our own personal Johnny Depp or Johnny Depp, either way will work for me. Lets continue.

Arden Leigh: Yes, yes, absolutely. The one difference is when you do have someone who is so highly sought after. One thing I tell women is that whatever every other woman around them is doing, you need to do the opposite or else you’re not going to stand out. So for someone who’s maybe not Johnny Depp, for someone who’s maybe a little shier or a little less sought after, it could be very adventagious to go and make the first move because that’s something that’s going to be surprising to them and is going to stand out. For someone like Johnny Depp, who I’m assuming – I’ve never met the man – but I’m assuming he’s probably bombarded with offers all the time, the best thing that you can do is, again, do the opposite and basically pretend that you’re not at all interested in him. One of the things that I recommend is when you’re trying to get into a targets immediate circle, you know, in order to have the opportunity even to seduce him – you know, and this can be very important sometimes if, you know, if you meet someone you don’t, if you’re taking an indirect approach and you’re going to wait a while and sort of… There’s something that Kierkegaard said in The Seducer’s Diary, which is he says, about this woman he is in love with, he says, “I do not approach her, I merely skirt the periphery of her existence.” And for a highly sought after target, like a Johnny Depp for example, this would be a really good way to go about it, start off being very, very indirect and be able to sort of work your way into that person’s immediate social circle. So of course you need to befriend the people that that person hangs out with. I like to call this tactic basically a friend seduction because I think that you absolutely can seduce people without sex being involved in it whatsoever. And I’ve done this many times… you know, how many times do we see someone who we’re like, “Oh, that person is someone that I would really like to be friends with. I really would like them to have a good opinion of me”, and doing that is basically, you can kind of, you can kind of apply almost everything you would use in a regular sexual seduction except for the sex part because obviously you don’t want to come off as a tease. If all you want is to be friends with them you’re going to have to rain that part in quite obviously or else you’re going to get a pretty poor reputation.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So you make friends with Johnny Depp’s friends, right?

Arden Leigh: Exactly. Because they have to trust you and they have to, you know, they’re going to be, they’re going to be the people who are the gatekeepers. You always must befriend the gatekeeper. One thing I’ve noticed about a lot of celebrities – and I haven’t hung out with that many of them, but I’ve hung out with enough of them to notice this pattern – is that very often celebrities will have a gatekeeper beside them who, basically if they want to hang out with someone, you know, they will tell the gatekeeper, “Okay, get her phone number.” And they’ll never give out their own phone number of course, but the person who is, you know, a little bit less of a celebrity or maybe not a celebrity at all, you know, someone who is their best friend or their confidant or whatever, you know…. You always have to befriend the gatekeeper, and that’s very important in seduction, but, you know, they also talk about that in business. You know, if you want, if you want to really get on your bosses good side, you know, make sure that his secretary likes you.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Absolutely.

Arden Leigh: Right. I mean this is just sort of a common sense in terms of behavior.

Dr. Patti Taylor: And your superintendent by the way, because, you know, your toilet always backs up…

Arden Leigh: Oh gosh, yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: right before a major party. You want that guy running upstairs with the plunger to your toilet first…

Arden Leigh: Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right? Anyway, so back to the conversation…

Arden Leigh: Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Why would Johnny Depp want or you, okay, assuming we’re not a celebrity? What could we have to offer him?

Arden Leigh: Of course, of course. You really do have to build up your own relationship equity, and by relationship equity I mean something that you are bringing to the table. And I believe this is part of seduction. You know, there are some people who are like, “Well why can’t I just take a short cut and just get this person through, you know, a fancy language and semantics or, you know, eye contact or whatever, and well it’s not always quite that simple, especially when you’re dealing with a very highly prized target. What I advise pretty much all women is you really need to work on yourself first; what are you bringing to the table? So with a Johnny Depp for example, you know, you might not be a celebrity, you might be a celebrity in some circles, you might have some degree of renown of your own, you better have your own thing going on because he has his own thing going on. It doesn’t really need to be a celebrity necessarily, you could be an interior designer as long as you are successful and self-sufficient because the last thing that a Johnny Depp wants is someone who’s just seducing him in order to be a leach and to sort of ride on his coattails. So you must have your own thing going on, and that’s sort of just very basic. But in terms of what you have to offer, furthermore, it could be a lot of things. It could be, you know, your ability to create a quiet and comfortable space, you know, away from all the chaos that his world is. It could be your ability to see the world through fresh eyes if he wants to, you know, if his life maybe lacks adventure now that he’s reached such pinnacles of success, you know, and perhaps become jaded by that, you know, where else can you go from there? Well being with a new person whose eyes you can see the world anew through can be very, very exciting. It could also be the fact that, you know, there’s this syndrome that Robert Green talks about in his called The Art of Seduction, which is called the Lonely Leader, and a lot of potential targets are lonely leaders who, you know, the world is just absolutely kissing up to them and no one is really able to relate to them as an equal and it’s very lonely like that. So if you are someone who can relate to him as an equal or even as a caretaker, again, that’s going to be refreshing in a world where everyone is doing the opposite.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well Johnny Depp better be careful ‘cause I have a lot of those qualities myself.

Arden Leigh: I bet you do.

Dr. Patti Taylor: And that’s a great book, The Art of Seduction, isn’t it?

Arden Leigh: Oh I love that book. I absolutely love it.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So thanks for bringing that up. Anyway, we’re going to take a quick break again, and I think we’re going to talk about where sex could come in handy or where it does fit into all of this, so please stay with us. This is Dr. Patti Taylor and I’m here with Arden Leigh. You can learn more about Arden at her fabulous website, ardenleigh.typepad.com, and that’s a-r-d-e-n, l-e-i-g-h, dot, t-y-p-e-p-a-d, dot com. So please stay with us.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re back and we’re talking about secrets to seducing a man. And so I want to talk about sex.

Arden Leigh: Absolutely.

Dr. Patti Taylor: At what point is it safe to actually have sex with someone, or is that, is there a rule about that?

Arden Leigh: I’m glad you brought that up. I’m very, very glad you brought that up because that’s very similar to all the folklore that’s out there about how long you have to wait to call, there’s also a lot of folklore out there about how long you should wait to have sex. And, again, there’s really no set rule. I have had…

Dr. Patti Taylor: Oh, thank goodness.

Arden Leigh: Yes, right. I mean there certainly are things that you need to look for and things that you need to follow, and I’ll definitely, I’ll definitely talk about those, but, you know, I have waited the so-called right amount of time, actually very sadly the first time I ever had sex. And I was a late bloomer too, just so, you know, people think that this was something that I was born with, I was definitely not. I did not have sex until I was 22 years old. So this is a learned skill set that any woman can learn if she’s willing to put in the effort…

Dr. Patti Taylor: Beautiful how you turned out.

Arden Leigh: Oh, well thank you.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Please continue.

Arden Leigh: Yeah, so this first time that I had sex, when I was 22, I waited, you know, the so-called right amount of time and I had been dating this man for maybe about a month and a half, so I waited, you know, about six weeks. And after we had sex for the first time, yeah, the next… and sadly we actually worked together - this was when I was a bartender - we worked at the same restaurant, and I did not get to have sex again with this man until two months later, but I had to see him at work everyday. So clearly, clearly I was not doing something right even though I did wait the so-called right amount of time. A relationship I had much later, I basically waited maybe about three dates to date the person, or I’m sorry, have sex with the person that I was dating because he happened to be my boss. And what I saw in his willingness to date me and to have sex with me was that he was basically, he was willing to risk a lot. If I had just been a fling, if I had just been someone he was planning on discarding afterward, well he could have had random sex with a lot of other women a lot more easily than just someone who was his employee. And, you know, he was either going to have to deal with the awkwardness that would happen in the workplace following that or he was going to have to fire me and retrain someone else. So I knew that he was serious about me, and he also, we didn’t have a lot of time, you know, dating in the workplace to be on the fence about it, there wasn’t a lot of time to actually date in that sense where you’re sort of testing the waters with someone. We kind of, you know, we went out a couple times and then we said, “Alright, we’re either going to do this or we’re not. There’s not a lot of time to be wishy washy about it”, and that relationship ended up lasting years, so… So there really is no set rule about how long you have to wait. What you have to do is you really have to see that the person is taking a non-sexual interest in you. And one of the things that I like to do in seduction when I’m sort of either seeing someone or flirting with them, you know, perhaps, you know, perhaps before sex has happened, is I like to, I like to take the lead in terms of doing things for them, you know, like gifts for example. Small gifts obviously, you don’t want to, you don’t want to buy them something like very expensive right away, but, you know, in terms of maybe clipping out an article that you thought that they would like or, you know, even paying for dinner or whatever, you know, so you’re basically sort of taking them on this ride. And what I need to see from someone before I’m willing to sleep with that person is that he is, has started to mirror me, that he’s started to really take an interest in things that I like and to mirror my actions in terms of the little gifts or, you know, paying for dinner or making plans, you know, and really going out of his way to do things that make me feel good, as I have been going out of my way to do things that are going to make him feel good. So things that, you know, things that counts for me in terms of, you know, when I, when I start to see those signs that I’m look for. It could be that I’m, you know, he burns you a CD of a band that he thought that you would like. Or, you know, for example, one time, you know, there was someone that I was, you know, like giving little gifts to who was a photographer and he ended up printing out a photo for me that he had taken, and, you know, again, this is not something that really cost him any money, but he, it’s showed that he had thought of me. He came back and he said, “Oh, I did this photo shoot. I really thought that you would like this particular photo. I printed out, you know, a copy for you”, whatever. Things like that are really showing that I’m on the persons mind and that his interest in me is not simply (unintelligible). I’ll go into a little bit about, you know, what I learned as a professional dominant in terms of men’s relationships to their sexuality, which, you know, you hear a lot of complaints from women about, you know, “Oh, as soon as he has sex then he’s not interested in me anymore.” And it’s a big generalization and it’s not really a hundred percent fair. But one thing that I will say is that, you know, I’ve seen, I saw a lot of clients as a pro dom and while I never had sex with them in any form whatsoever, typically in the industry it’s generally allowed that they’re allowed to bring themselves to their own climax at the end of a session, which is, you know, the way that we keep that legal. So I do witness their states before climax and after climax, and a lot of them will go from this, you know, “Oh I adore you mistress, I love you mistress, I’ll do anything you say mistress, I’ll burn my family photos, I’ll buy you diamonds, I’ll whatever.” And then, you know, the minute they have an orgasm, it’s like, “Oh thanks man. That was really great. Thanks buddy. Go to go catch the game now. Bye.” You know, and so the fantasy, if it’s purely fantasy, after the male orgasm the fantasy shatters, and it’s not really fair to judge men for this. The way that I like to, the analogy I like to use to help women to understand this is that it’s kind of like being really, really, really hungry and sitting down and having a huge meal, and then as soon as you’re finished you can’t even remember what it was like to be hungry any more. So when it’s a purely sexual interest, you know, yes, that fantasy is not going to carry over post orgasm. That is why you need to see signs of non-sexual interest. And I saw this in my clients too. I had a lot of clients who would email me between sessions, who would stay in touch with me. People who I even stay in touch with now that I am no longer a pro dom anymore, where, you know, you would come back into the room and they would show you the same respect and the same deference that they did, you know, before, before they had an orgasm. And that, to me, is a sign that their interest in me was, it transcended the sexual and it went into the non-sexual realm as well. There were a lot of people who actually cared about getting to know me as a person. I had a client one time who actually researched a whole bunch of posts that I made on a message board and came into session with a bottle of my favorite Scotch that he had read I, I had mentioned I liked this Scotch maybe two years prior to the event. So when he came in with that, and I thought, “Wow! Here is someone who really wants to get to know me as a person and is not just projecting their fantasies onto me”, and that person is still friends with me today, so, you know, it just goes to show you how far something like that can go. So that’s what I need to see from a man basically before I’m willing to sleep with him, is he needs to start, you know… Certainly I have led the way. I’ve been the leader on the journey up to this point in the seduction so far. But if he wants to transcend that final, you know, that final boundary into being sexually intimate, it’s sort of, it’s time to put up or shut up basically.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow! Wow, wow, wow! I love everything you shared. Thank you so much.

Arden Leigh: Absolutely.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We learned some really interesting points, and we’re going to, we’re lucky that we have you for our second show, so I’m just so happy I can… I can hardly stand it because I do have some things I want to just draw out what you said, but we are going to have to bring our first show to a close, so… Do you, would you like to leave our listeners with a parting thought? Just for those of us who need to wait until your second show, we’re going to leave them with your last thinking here.

Arden Leigh: Absolutely. I would say one very important parting thought that I could leave is that seduction as I think of it, my own personal philosophy, involves a lot of generosity. So for people who are looking to be greedy and to seduce someone just, you know, for a lot of money or for the advantages that they can gain… I’m not saying that you don’t gain a lot of pleasure and a lot of advantages in a well-culminated seduction, but you really have to come from a place of generosity. You really have to be willing to create another experience for that person, and when you’re ready to do that, then you can be a very, very effective seductress.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow! Well you just took a phenomenal show and just added a gorgeous ending to it, very uplifting. Thank you so much for being on our show.

Arden Leigh: Thank you.

Dr. Patti Taylor: This brings our show to a close for today. We’ve been listening and talking with Arden Leigh. She has a phenomenal blog website, so now you get to share her, but you can actually get an RSS feed to her website and just read what she has to say because she’s a phenomenal author as well, and you can continue to learn all about the arts of seduction, and it’s done from a woman’s point of view, but personally I think men could just benefit as well from all of this. I think it’s done from a very heartfelt place. And so, I’m going to give you the URL one more time, it’s ardenleigh, a-r-d-e-n, l-e-i-g-h, dot typepad, dot come, t-y-p-e-p-a-d (ardenleigh.typepad.com). So thank you again for being on our show Arden.

Arden Leigh: Thank you very much for having me Patti. It’s a pleasure.

Dr. Patti Taylor: You’re so welcome. And listeners if you haven’t already, please do sign up to Notify Me in Expanded Lovemaking show, so you can find out when Arden comes back for show two and all my other shows. And we, you can email me, [email protected]. And for text and transcripts of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media network, please visit our website, personallifemedia.com. Also please visit me, Dr. Patti Taylor, at expandedlovemaking.com, where you can join my mailing list and find out more about my products, services and events. This is Dr. Patti Taylor. That’s all for now. I remain yours in ever expanding lovemaking, and I’ll see you next week.