Episode 49: Balancing and Transcending Roles to Fuel an Orgasmic Life with Mariana Bozesan

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Hear Dr. Patti chat with Mariana Bozesan, social and serial entrepreneur, parent, and inspirational speaker, about how to transcend the roles and identities that keep all of us stuck at a certain level of relationship. In Part One of this interview, you will learn about the four levels of relationship, and how each one uniquely contributes to our abilities to experience more passion. Learn the risks inherent in staying at only one particular level of relating, and what it takes to do the inner work to be the kind of person you would want to make love to.

Transcript

Woman: This program is intended for mature audiences only.

[podcast break]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the “Expanded Lovemaking Show.” I'm your host, Dr. Patti Taylor of ExpandedLovemaking.com. I teach you how to give and receive a way more pleasure than you ever dream possible. This is a two-part show, so welcome to Part 1.

In this show, we will be talking about balancing and transcending world to fuel an orgasmic life. Have you ever thought that your role in life tend to be confusing and even frustrating? You freak from being a parent, maybe to a businessperson, to a lover? But sometimes by the time you get around to blissful loving, you're struggling. So here to inspire us today with a whole new paradigm for relating is our guest, Mariana Bozesan.

Mariana Bozesan: We all have to have a fulfilling life because, ultimately at the end of the day, Patti, what is more important than the way we feel? There is nothing more fulfilling in life than having an orgasm together where you see the stars. I personally believe that we have been given by existence this experience as a taste of what else we can achieve if we only begin to cultivate that amazing quality of looking within.

What I thought who I was and what I noticed standing there with two different people, in my head, of course, I would have walked, but as a person I didn’t get myself to walked. Everything you do on a regular basis needs to serve that purpose, that higher purpose, and of course, it's not an easy thing to do. Now, a good functioning relationship--long term--comes from having things in common.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I'd like to welcome you to our show, Mariana.

Mariana Bozesan: It’s a great pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Patti Taylor: It’s totally my pleasure. So let me tell you a little bit about Mariana. She's an entrepreneur with more than 25 years experience. She's an internationally recognized authority on the psychology of business leadership. Among other things, she's a computer scientist, a public speaker, a successful venture capitalist, a philanthropist, and a best-selling author. In addition, she lives in a multi-generational household and has been passionately married for over two decades, proving that you can have it all.

So I think our listeners will love this show for two reasons. One, I've had many request to do a show on this topic so I know there's a lot of interest. But two, Mariana, you are so inspiring. Every time I talked to you, I feel more expanded and passionate.

Mariana Bozesan: Thank you.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So today, we will all immerse ourselves in the question of how to have a more passionate life even as we fulfill many roles, and let's get started. Mariana, I think it's amazing that you are extremely successful as a businessperson and yet you're willing to talk about intimate topics. Most people would say they have an image to protect, but you're joyfully willing to share with us your ideas on sex, orgasmic living, and more.

Mariana Bozesan: Of course, because don’t we have to honor all of our facets? We are not just businesspersons, as you said; you're not just a mother. You also are an integral human being, a wife. I'm talking to a wife to a husband, but this is true for every single couple, be it the same sex couple or heterogeneous couple. We all have to have a fulfilling life because, ultimately at the end of the day, Patti, what is more important than the way we feel?

Dr. Patti Taylor: I couldn’t agree with you more. I'm just curious, before we get in to this too much, how did you get to be so open, yourself, personally? Were you born that way or you're lucky or did you develop this ability?

Mariana Bozesan: I believe that this is my character trait. Actually not always rewarded by the world, but I have had such amazing connections with human beings just because I open up myself. That quality in me has been nourished and I have cultivated it. It makes me feel good and it helps people who are with me to open up and reach in to their own hearts and get a different dimension of feeling. Yes, I think it's my character trait.

Dr. Patti Taylor: OK, so you're born that way but you also developed it to quite an extent which is encouraging to the rest of us. I think we live in a culture here in this country which is a little bit kind of emphasizes us as being in different roles. I won't say we’re sex negative, but I would say that most people tend to get very bogged down in being a mother or a father or a businessperson. It's very hard for them to see beyond the little fragments of who they are and maybe we need to reverse some of that cultural conditioning.

Mariana Bozesan: I couldn’t agree with you more and you know, Patti, I am guilty of that, too, because I am part of the culture that you just described, and with that, our conscious interest, with our conscious decision to go that way. In my case, I was forced through pain to really make a decision to cultivate that aspect of our inner life. Not only the inner life of my own person but the inner life of my own relationships, in most of all, intimate relationship with [xx] you.

Patti, you know it. There is nothing more fulfilling in life than having an orgasm together. Well, you see that stars and I believe I personally believe that we have been given by existence this experience as a taste of what else we can achieve if we only begin to cultivate that amazing quality of looking within as well as looking to the outside which we mostly do.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I think that’s very inspiring. I'd like to just go back to something you said. You said your own pain really drove you to this point. Can you tell us a little bit more about how your pain got you to such a great place?

Mariana Bozesan: It's a process really, it's not one event. It's a process over many years. Those of us, your listeners should be aware of the fact that once you begin to open up and connect to that deeper inner spirit of yourself, that’s like a virus. It's an addiction, you never give up on it because you’ve tasted it. So it's a process and you open up more and more and more.

In my particular case, I would like to relate an event that was really a doorway to this opening to a different level in my intimate relationship. It was in Frankfurt am Main in Germany, at a “Tony Robbins Event.” It was an event called “Unleash the Power Within.” It's one of the first events that if you want to train with Tony Robbins--which I highly recommend, through him and his teaching, I have achieved everything in any single thing that I ever wanted, material or not, in my life. I'm really, really a big fan of his.

So I was here at this event and those of your listeners who know his work, he starts the first evening by teaching you how to walk on hot coals so that you’ve learn to face your fears. So here I was with my husband--we signed up--and I was lost. There were about 7,000 people that night walking over those hot coals. Here I was in front of that place and I couldn’t get myself to walk.

That was my first identity crisis because what I thought who I was and what I noticed standing there were two different people. In my head, of course, I would have walked. But as a person, I didn’t get myself to walk. Now, I'm not saying that if you can't get yourself to walk on hot coals, there's something wrong with you. What I'm saying is that that was a challenge that I couldn’t pass.

Of course, the first thought was, “Where’s my husband? How could he--and I pointed to the outside, it's him, it's his fault--how could he leave me alone in the face of this? Where is he?” I couldn’t find him; it was pitch dark. He was probably dealing with his own stuff; I couldn’t find him. Of course, I made him responsible for my misery. Then I couldn’t get myself to walk that night and I followed Tony Robbins’ advice and looked at my thoughts. Then I went to the hotel room, began crying, and that was my first moment of truth.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That’s a really beautiful story. I'm wondering, you said you had an identity crisis, but maybe that was a good thing for you.

Mariana Bozesan: [xx].

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right. So do you want to speak a little bit on how our identities might keep us locked up from having that inner truth?

Mariana Bozesan: Yes, and it has to do with--first of all, with the fact that we get so carried out by the social conditioning, by the things that we want to achieve and do and make. We're get pulled by our companies, children, parents, friends, husbands, all the things that we want and other people want from us. If we do not make a conscious decision of, regularly maybe daily, asking ourselves, “Who am I? Where do I want to be? Why am I here? Where do I want to go? Who do I want to be in this lifetime? How am I using the gift that I've been given to serve the higher purpose? Am I living my purpose? What is my purpose in life?”

So does asking all of those questions regularly and so everything you do on a regular basis needs to serve that higher purpose, and of course, it's not an easy thing to do. I mean, I didn’t grow up being taught in school to respond, to give answers to these questions. I had to dig down facing pain. In that particular case coming back to that evening, I noticed that I, in my head, had become a victim. I victimized myself and the awakening that I had was, “Oh, my God! What has happened to our relationship?”

Remember when you first fall in love with somebody? You want to be with them all the time; you were all over them. You care, you would want to hold hands, but at that particular event--and we had been in love now for 25 years, and that was seven years ago, so it's been like 17 years into our relationship. So we had not cultivated that intimacy, that ultimate passion where you just want to be with one another. Otherwise, you would have been with me and I would have been with him, of course.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right. So I think that’s very exciting that even for our listeners who are in longer term relationships that things can really turn around very dramatically.

Mariana Bozesan: What I've learned was that I needed to dig down and find out, and of course, I stopped blaming him, I had that moment of truth as I said. I've been a meditator for many decades and though I have cultivated that awareness, the witness so that I could see myself from the outside world in what I was doing. Of course, I decided that moment that he was not responsible, that it was my own me dealing with myself at that moment.

When he finally came up to the hotel room, and of course, he had walked over hot coals, we had a very deep conversation. We decided that we were both willing to do whatever it takes to bring that intimate passion and live that orgasmic life back. Of course, we embarked on a journey and I would be more than willing to share the four levels of love and intimacy if we have time.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We do have time, this is a two-part show. So we're going to take a short break but I want to come back and talk about this victim mentality. So anyway, this is Dr. Patti Taylor and I am with Mariana Bozesan. We will be back, but you can learn more about Mariana in the future at www.SageEra.com.

[podcast break]

Dr. Patti Taylor: We're back and I'm Dr. Patti Taylor. We're talking to Mariana about balancing and transcending worlds to fuel our orgasmic life. I do very much want to hear about the four levels or relationship but I wanted to just go back to [xx] you realized that you were being a victim. How did that shift things when you realized that you were being a victim?

Mariana Bozesan: Well, if you really think about this, let me give you a very simple example. What happens is most people are late for meetings, what do they say?

Dr. Patti Taylor: “I'm late because--fill in the blank.”

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly, so most people blame it on what?

Dr. Patti Taylor: On the outside world. Right?

Marian Bozesan: Traffic.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right. Traffic.

Mariana Bozesan: “I am helpless, I couldn’t help it, the traffic was so bad.” That’s it. So you want to be innocent. Like me, in my case, I wanted to be, “It's not my fault, it's Tom’s fault.”--my husband’s name being Tom. So it's not me, it's I'm a victim. I want to be innocent, I'm a victim. Now, if you think about this, what is the price of becoming a victim? It's a Faustian deal where Faust, he could buy his innocence but he gave up what? Power.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, I was going to say you get to be loser when you're a victim.

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly. So he gave up power, and the question is do we want really to be powerless or do we want to become response-able? I don’t think that anybody that listens to us wants to be a victim or be powerless. But we don’t think it through and the moment we realize that the price of innocence is powerlessness, then we become empowered by finding ways to take responsibility in a good sense, not in a classical, “It's your fault.” You become response-able, have the ability to be a grown up and say, “Yes, the traffic was bad but if I had left earlier, I would have been here on time.”

Dr. Patti Taylor: So, we’ll get to your four levels of relating and why don’t we just go right into that then. Do most couples relate a certain level or does it change overtime? How do you see the different levels of relationship for a couple?

Mariana Bozesan: There are four levels that I would like to mention the [xx] has come up with. He's a psychologist, a famous thinker. Level number one is the relationship that our parents had or their parents, previous generations where the man would take care of the woman, bring home money and take care of the financial side of things. The woman would take care of him, of the household, of the children. So basically, it was about me – I do this for me, it's about me. You take care of me and I'll take care of you, in a sense, but it's about me.

Level two is what evoked out of that because women in the past were financially dependent. As especially our generation--Patti, I'm turning 50 this year--we learn to empower ourselves. We learn to move into the work force and become financially independent, so the relationship transformed along with that. Then we got involved, the relationships where we sought equality. I make money, you make money, and then we share things. Right? You do the shopping, I do the cooking. You do the finances, the accounting and I do the household and then we share the children’s responsibilities and so on. So that was all about equality. And, if you didn’t do the garbage, I won't cook for you. Right?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right. Tit for tat.

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly. Of course, as women became more and more powerful in the business financial world--and that the secret meaning of money, basically, because it's all underneath, it's all about the financial independence. The relationship, women became more masculine, so to speak. Along with that, Sharon Stone, (?) for instance, uses the term “the man became hybrid man.” Men just lost that powerful ability to be true men, not machos but a true guy who would pay compliment to a lady and hold the door open.

Men, all of a sudden, through the women lib--which in my view went too far in certain ways--we lost the polarity in bed. Women put on top of their feminine core a masculine mask, which they badly required and I am one of them to survive in the business world and become successful. Men, of course, became totally confused. So like who should do the first thing in bed? What is the dance? I have the right to do the first step. So on and so on, it's a total confusion. Out of that, the polarity disappeared from the sex life to a certain degree.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, and then you're making love with your best friend and that could get kind of boring. Right?

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly, because one thing that we need to keep in mind before I go to level three, very, very important for our listeners to remember. Ultimate passion, ultimate orgasm, lasting passion in life come from differences, from polarity, from being the polarity between the feminine and the masculine essences. It doesn’t mean that the feminine has to come from the woman and the masculine from the man, it's just that we all both have both, the masculine and the feminine side of us.

In bed, the polarity, ultimate sex, orgasm comes from that difference and that needs to be cultivated. When you go into your bedroom, you need to go into your core, you're initial core. Let go of those masks. In my case, I recognize that, “Oh, my God, I became masculated.” Masculine mask on top of the feminine core. Then when I woke up, I put quickly a feminine mask on top of the masculine, which was fake again. You know what I'm saying? I didn’t know how to help myself.

So you become more--you know how to do these things, but the core, you're still because you’ve cultivated it for so long, survival in a men’s world as a woman in my case, that I had lost how to touch with my deep core. Of course, my husband has his own side and all of that, but it took us a while to discover our core. Once you get there, then you move to level three relationship.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So what is you're core at level two, you're a woman. Right? Is it that simple?

Mariana Bozesan: At level two is you count things.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right.

Mariana Bozesan: You're confused.

Dr. Patti Taylor: But you to your core, and then you went to level three.

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I've got it. OK, good.

Mariana Bozesan: Yes. Once you discover who you really are--which comes back to the original question, “Who am I? Why I am here?”--then you don’t know but to live that and that is easy, you don’t have to work at it. See? That’s the beauty about being who you are!

Dr. Patti Taylor: So you could be a woman but maybe your core is very masculine. Is that possible? Or you could be a man and maybe your core is very feminine. Or, you could be a very male guy. Right? Whatever your core is, it could be very unique to you.

Mariana Bozesan: It is and it should be and you should honor it. One thing I want to come out of this, there is nothing that people have to do, it's all about being. So the more you are who you really are, everything around yourself transforms, and then passion comes back in. Yes, polarity is what is important, not whether you are a feminine woman or a masculine man or a feminine core man with the core masculine woman.

Dr. Patti Taylor: OK, now we're at level three and that’s the polarity. Right?

Mariana Bozesan: Yes, that’s the polarity and the second part is--I said there are two things that people need to remember – passion comes from differences. Now, a good functioning relationship--long term--comes from having things in common, that’s very important. The moment you leave the bedroom and you don’t have many things in common, the relationship won't work long term. So these two things have to happen. You have to choose properly and not be driven by your sex drive in choosing your proper partner.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So would it be fair to say that as you go up the levels, you include all the previous levels inside of you?

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly. Exactly.

Dr. Patti Taylor: OK, good. We're going to take another short break. This is Dr. Patti Taylor and I'm with Mariana Bozesan. We will be right back. You can learn more about Mariana at www.SageEra.com. So please stay with us.

[podcast break]

Dr. Patti Taylor: We're back and we're talking about the model of relating that will eventually, hopefully, set us free from all rules and feel more passion. So here we are at level three.

Mariana Bozesan: Yes. Level three is basically that I do 100% everything for you. I am willing and ready to die for you, so much do I love you. So you are me and I am you, that’s the kind of love and passion that the two partners are willing to live their lives.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow! Is this where you got to after your experience with the Tony Robbins?

Mariana Bozesan: Oh, absolutely. We have a son, and one of the things that we discussed is I had a problem with dying for husband because I have a son. So I thought I couldn’t because I have to be there for my son. The trap with that is if I didn’t trust my husband that he would take care of our son--we have a son together, we've only one child--then I would not be willing to die for him. So the presupposition is that I didn’t trust him 100% to actually die himself for our son. So we find ways to lie to ourselves. Are you following me?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Absolutely. That’s a very profound level of trust.

Mariana Bozesan: Exactly. So if you can trust your husband that he will die for your child when in need, then you would be willing to really move up level three and just live and live it all from your heart. Of course, this is a process again and you have to discover it and work on it everyday, every single day. Just like you don’t go to the gym and workout once and then, “Well, I'm now fit for the rest of my life.” It isn’t how it works! The same is true in relationships.

In our previous conversation, Patti, I mentioned an example of such a level three relationship between Neo and his beloved in “The Matrix.”

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yes, that’s a popular movie, hopefully, a lot of people have seen that. Yes, tell us what happened in that.

Mariana Bozesan: What happened is that Neo was willing to die several times to save her life and she was willing to die to save his life on several occasions. Up to the point to the end of the movie where he felt that he needed to go to the core of the machine center and fight his Mr. Smith, his negative side, which of course, represents his shadow side. The powerful Neo became--in his quest for who he was--his shadow side became more powerful.

These are very important things. So as we dig deeper into answering the question, “Who am I?” we need to face our shadow side. His girlfriend was willing to go with him and drive him to go with him there and, of course, he lost his sight on fighting with somebody. But as he lost his physical sight, he dug deeper inside himself and, all of a sudden, he saw more than before. So that’s another beautiful metaphor. The more we let go of the external things, how things should be and look deep within and are willing to face our shadow side, the more we see and perceive and learn new dimensions of being that we haven’t experienced before.

So life becomes better and more enriched the moment we are willing to let go and live who we really are. So of course, he identifies, he sees that the moment he gives up fighting Mr. Smith--his shadow side--disappears and he saves, of course, Zion, the purpose he went there to fulfill, and everything reaches a high level of consciousness which is what you're doing, Patti. You are helping people to reach higher levels of consciousness, connect with spirits, with God--so to speak, for those of you who wants to use this term--by living an orgasmic life.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow! That’s really beautiful. I love what you're saying that this is a process. Don’t expect things overnight and that it's not going to be easy, but it will be orgasmic and blissful at some deeper underlying current as you start to do this kind of work.

Mariana Bozesan: Yes, absolutely. As a matter of fact--as you know, you're the expert on this--this Tantric tradition, as they're called in Hinduism/Buddhism, they have been practiced and are practiced in all wisdom traditions. So to use the unification between yin and yang, between the feminine and the masculine, is an entry door to connecting with our true spirit, with our true meanings.

This is what life is all about. I mean, look outside the window! Everything in the cosmos, everything in nature is absolutely sensual and sexual. Nothing would exist, not a least, nothing in nature would exist without the Tantric, cosmic, orgasmic dance. Nature is orgasmic and so if we are not, then we need to go back and dig deeper and let go of the social conditioning that wanted to control us so that they could manipulate us. The sooner we do that, the less wars we have because we find we don’t need to fight anymore, we just love and live.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That is totally inspiring. We're going to have to close this show pretty soon because we're running out of time. We'll definitely explore this much more with you in Part 2 of our show. I have one more question though for you before we end. What happened to the sex between you and your husband, if you're open to sharing that as a result of the transformations that you made? What happened to the passion?

Mariana Bozesan: Of course, the passion is absolutely returned. What we also learned, we participated in various and are still doing it, it's an ongoing process again in various programs, that John Gray, for instance offers, and in our case, also Margot Anand, who is our dear friend and teacher. So I'll be willing to talk about this later.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yes, we'll come back to it, but you're saying the passion just kept growing and growing ever since you made that turnaround and started transcending the different levels.

Mariana Bozesan: Absolutely. Passion grows and that’s a fact that it's a lie that passion goes away once you grow older in the relationship. It's not true. It's not true. It needs to be cultivated just like the gym thing. The more you go to the gym, the stronger you become, the more passion you have in your life, the more energy and vitality you have. It's just the same thing, it's directly proportional.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I certainly see that in my own life. We've been married together 22 years and it's unbelievably off the chart. So we can bring that myth to an end that passion has to end.

Mariana Bozesan: Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We will continue more in Part 2 of this show. So I want to thank you for coming on and being with us today. I'm already totally inspired which is great because I know there's way, way more for me and for all of our listeners. So thank you so much for being on our show. I also want to thank all our listeners for listening.

Please, send me email at [email protected]. For text and transcript of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media Network, visit our website at PersonalLifeMedia.com. Also, please visit me, Dr. Patti Taylor, at www.ExpandedLoveMaking.com where you can join my mailing list and find out more about my products, services, and events.

So this is your host, Dr. Patti Taylor. That’s all for now. Please, come back for Part 2. Until then, I remain yours in ever expanding lovemaking and I will see you next week.

Woman: Find more great shows like this on PersonalLifeMedia.com.

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