Episode 30: Adding Creative Fantasy to Your Favorite Intimate Activities with Heron Saline

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Dr. Patti and Heron Saline discuss how to add savor and spice to your lovemaking so that it feels safe, and yet expanded.  Heron Saline, a master hypnotherapist, has over 30 years experience in a wide range of integrated mind/body therapeutic modalities. Discover what is safe to have as a fantasy?  What about those thoughts we don't want to have?  How can we enjoy our fantasies, and use them for added turn-on with a loved one? What about solo sex?  Listen as Heron creates a real time exercise with Dr. Patti, in which she has a fantasy right on the air involving a growling, hot, passionate lover! Find out where she feels this in her body, and the questions you can ask your lover to encourage him or her to develop their fantasies too.  Listeners can learn to ask their partner open-ended questions to encourage them to develop their fantasies. Such questions can be fun, revealing, and even lead to avenues of profound self-exploration and development. Fantasy and imagination can be healing, and can take the form of role-play, situations, and other juicy scenarios.  Find out which ones Dr. Patti likes, from which ones she thinks men and women like best, respectively! Because fantasies do bring up feelings and emotions, Heron describes why some people may choose to work with a therapist in exploring how to put fantasy in the best possible context with the rest of their lovemaking life.  A truly love - and life - expanding show!

Transcript

Dr. Patti Taylor: In this amazing show, find out about creative fantasy. What is it? Is it naughty or nice or both? And what are some of the many ways you can use it to turn up the heat in your love life.

Heron Saline: Some people were raised and their family system or the society they grew up with really pooh-pooh that and limit that, and other people are really encouraged by creativity and fantasy and any of the things that connect with that level of consciousness and get a lot of practice. Many people find their own ways to do that and make up wonderful ways to have a very rich and rewarding and productive fantasy life.

Heron Saline: It’s possible that your fantasy or imagination during erotic play is going to increase and enhance connection with your partner or that it would block it and take you away from the connection depending on what else is going on, so it’s really important to look at that.

Heron Saline: What if you were on a beach in Tahiti and making love to me or we were in the water and you started touch, caressing me or something, and then come right back from that and bring it into your present moment connection and your partner gets turned on by it as well and you let that stimulate where the play goes.

Heron Saline: Some of the different forms that they have might be some concept, it usually starts with something we’re curious about erotically, an experience we might like to have. Like, it could be multiple partners or it could be a different partner that, somebody that you’ve seen, maybe the delivery boy at the grocery store.

Heron Saline: Start out, what would be a good starting point for this fantasy to your partner and your partner says, “You know, I’m just really remembering how hot it was for me when I was in high school, the first time I got kissed, and that was so amazing to me, and I remember the feeling in my body of how it, it was like electric excitement for me and I’d really like to go back to that”, and instead of maybe something that might hinder him, might be going, “Oh, I don’t want to talk about something a long time ago”, but just to be in wonder and say, “Wow, how interesting, tell me about that”, and let them take the lead and take you deeper, and then what you just suggested.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the Expanded Lovemaking show. I’m your host, Dr. Patti Taylor of expandedlovemaking.com, and I teach you how to give and receive way more pleasure than you’ve ever dreamed possible. Today on the show we are talking about creative fantasy in lovemaking, adding savor and spice to your favorite intimate activities. This show is all about linking our imaginations to our love life. Our bodies are limited in size and shape, but there is no limit to our imagination. So how can we link our imagination to the rest of us, to have galaxy sized leaps in our lovemaking pleasure? To answer this question and perhaps a few more, I am so happy to welcome today’s guest, Heron Saline. Welcome Heron.

Heron Saline: Hi, Patti. Thanks for inviting me today, it’s great to be here.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, it’s great to have you here. Heron Saline is a private practice consulting hypnotist, who teaches on topics of using the mind for pleasure and success in health and relationship. He has extensive training in the personal thinking pattern system, acoustic massage, medical hypnotherapy, somatic massage, erotic massage and orthobionomy, among many of his other integrated skills. He’s been studying and practicing for over 30 years and is located in San Francisco. I am really glad to have Heron with us today. And I think you will love this topic. Imagination is an intriguing word. Some of us may have mixed feeling about it. Is it okay to engage our fantasies during lovemaking? And if so, how do we do this to full advantage? Imagine the potentials for more derring-do, exploration and fun, as well as pleasure and connection by getting that answer clear. So today we will find out why your imagination just might be a safe, and yet very expanding thing to play with, and how you can use your imagination to have more fun and to feel more, too. So lets start with a few questions about using our imagination at all. So Heron, I think most of us are taught that imagination is something that’s okay to do, but only within limits. But who knows what those limits are, so I think a lot of people hear the word imagination and maybe there’s some uncertain, uncertainty.

Heron Saline: Well, that’s a great question Patti, and in a general sense of imagination, yeah, people have really different practices, ways they use their imagination. Some people were raised and their family system or the society they grew up with really pooh-pooh that and limit that, and other people are really encouraged in creativity and fantasy and any of the things that connect with that level of consciousness and get a lot of practice. Many people find their own ways to do that and make up wonderful ways to have a very rich and rewarding and productive fantasy life and creative life.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well whatever you can say, I mean we all have an imagination. Now if maybe your school teacher or your mom said, “Quit daydreaming”, you know, it didn’t really work right, I mean we were all going to keep on daydreaming, it just made it a little more taboo and exciting for us, but we all, it’s something we all do, isn’t it?

Heron Saline: To my understanding, it’s a natural life function. It’s a natural level of consciousness. You referred to it a little on one of your earlier podcasts about thinking patterns with Doc Harage, that it’s literally, if you hooked up an EEG machine to any of us, when we go into our fantasy mind or our imagination, daydreaming, memory, creative impulse, any of those things, we’re literally firing off a lot of slowed down brain wires, which is the speed range called theta brain waves. That’s the electrical impulses in our mind at that time.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, I, yes, and I think that’s what may be a little scary for people because now you get into the whole question, so it’s one thing when you’re a kid, but I think when you’re making love, for one think, you know, how do you control what you’re imagining, right? So maybe it’s okay to have some kinds of imagination, like if you’re imagining how beautiful your partner is, but what if you’re imagining something that, you know, how do you make, you know, I guess your partner is wondering, you know, how do you make imagination safe, so I think we can have a fabulous interview today and I, I absolutely believe that imagination is, you know, you can’t, you can’t, you can’t control it anyway, but you can have a phenomenal amount of good fun with it, but…

Heron Saline: Oh, it’s so fun.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I think we just need to talk about it.

Heron Saline: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, and it’s really important to talk about, this is a great place to launch into the topic, that it’s possible that your fantasy or imagination during erotic play is going to increase and enhance connection with your partner, or that it would block it and take you away from the connection depending on what else is going on, so it’s really important to look at that.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So would you say that if you have a fundamentally healthy relationship then the, the imagination is really going to help it, and if you don’t have a good relationship the imagination is just really going to be signifying something that is already structurally a problem, and that really our conversation is going to be more relevant to people that already have a healthy sound relationship.

Heron Saline: That’s possible, but I think it’s more, generally it’s more specific to the moment. For instance, even within a very healthy relationship where you have really good communication, really great trust established between the partners, one person might find themselves fantasizing when they’re making love in a way that takes them away from the connection and to just check in with what’s going on, why, why are they fantasizing what they’re fantasizing. Like if they’re fantasizing suddenly about, and this isn’t usually what we think, this isn’t a sexual fantasy, but if somebody’s making love or giving a massage with their partner or something, and we would of course hope that that would be really juicy and connective, but they’ve had a super busy last four days of their life and they got all these big projects coming up, and their fantasy mind is going to, “Oh my god, tomorrow I have this deadline on this project”, and suddenly they’re really tired in their body and their mind, and their fantasy mind is going to something not very erotic or not very connective at all, they’re going, “Wow, I have to go grocery shopping and I have to do my laundry before I do this”, now that’s not a sexual fantasy, but that’s fantasy mind. So to notice, that might be one example of fantasy thought taking us away from connection. Is that clearer?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, that’s a good point, so…

Heron Saline: Likewise, you could have the flip side where you’re fantasizing about something that you dip into in your big broadminded way, something that’s very alive for you erotically that’s a huge turn-on and really gets you juiced, and then bring that back to your interaction with your partner, whether you dip into that fantasy by yourself in your mind or whether you report it aloud for instance to your partner and say, “Wow, my, I just noticed my fantasy mind went to, what if we were on a beach in Tahiti and you were making love to me, or we were in the water and you started touch, caressing me or something”, and then come right back from that and bring it into your present moment connection, and your partner gets turned on by it as well, and you let that stimulate where the play goes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, well that’s exactly what I wanted to talk about, was just basically what our whole conversation today is really going to focus on is that healthy alive kind of fantasy and not the kind that takes you away from the lovemaking, but that adds, but that might actually have a variety of different ways that it might look, so…

Heron Saline: Yeah, I think that’s, it’s just a really important point. Part of that is that the trust of getting to be present with whatever’s going on in your mind, even if there’s a fantasy that takes you away. One that’s an explicitly sexual fantasy that some people experience when they’re playing with a partner, is suddenly they find themselves thinking about somebody else, a different partner. Now that could, I can really understand where that might really break the connection between you and your partner in that moment, and you’d really rather have them focusing on you, but one way you can bring it back to the connection is to go, “Wow, so what were you noticing?”, if that were welcome and you were able to just instead of fighting it or hiding that from your partner, just go, “Gosh, I just noticed, I’m thinking about…”, I don’t know, some public figure or a movie star that you’re attracted to and say, “Wow, what part of that is a real turn on to you?”, and bring that back in and then apply it to a new fantasy with your partner.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Now that’s interesting. I often have fantasies about other people, and I had no guilt…

Heron Saline: I think most people do.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, I have no guilt or shame about it, you know, my feeling is, you know, what goes on between my four walls, also known as my head, is my business and if, and I’m there with my partner, I’m, you know, I’m presumably making love with my partner and having a great time, and my feeling is, you know, it’s like my fantasy is the sauce of the topping or I’m adding it in, it’s like another chapter of the book that’s added on top, it’s not taking away anything, you know, if Tom Cruise wants to join us or…

Heron Saline: And people have different personal experiences of that, so I really celebrate and support people to talk with your partners about what’s going on. If you notice they seem to, to mentally not really be there for a moment, check in and ask them, “Gee, are you in your fantasy mind right now? Is that something you would share with me? How can that enhance our connection? And connect.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That sounds like a great idea. So what are some other common fantasies?

Heron Saline: Oh, there are so many common fantasies people have. Some of the different forms that they have might be some concept. It usually starts with something we’re curious about erotically, an experience we might like to have. Like it could be multiple partners or it could be a different partner that, somebody that you’ve seen, maybe the delivery boy at the grocery store or the, somebody that you see, the woman who came and knocked on your door asking for a political signature or something and was just really attractive to you. And it’s not always physical or visual attraction, there are so many kinds of attraction. Maybe you noticed that you really liked somebody’s speaking style or how gentle they were, or how assertive they were was really hot for you, and it’s a turn on in a way. We all notice a million different qualities that any person could have, and bring that back in and going, “Wow, where else would you like to see, or where would that go next?”

Dr. Patti Taylor: I keep having this fantasy that, you know, a whole squadron of cheerleaders like you see on a football field are just going to knock on the door and say, “You know, we’re, we just came over to cheer up your husband and give you some…”, you know what, my husband’s pretty happy and all that, but, you know, and it’s just obvious, I mean I don’t have anything going on cheerleaders, but I just, you know, 12 pretty girls and with pom-pom’s and I don’t know.

Heron Saline: And so a lot of times that brings up, and that’s a great example of an emotional fantasy, like, what would that be even to witness that or to imagine that, what’s emotional state of excitement or maybe titillation or arousal does that stimulate in you or satisfaction seeing your partner cheered up.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, just the look on his face, I think it would turn him on so much that it would turn me on…

Heron Saline: Yeah.

Dr. Patti Taylor: and so I can like get off on just that very thought.

Heron Saline: Some of the other forms of content that people often go to is sort of a storyline. “Boy, I’m traveling and I’m in the airport and I meet a hot stranger and we both have four hour over waits for our planes and we go upstairs and get a hotel room for a few hours and tear one off, and really connect and have this wonderful erotic connection”, or a different scene, or sometimes fetish, either a certain kind of body development or a different look than maybe your partner, or if you have partners, has. It can be any number of things.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Uh huh, got it. So now to what extent do you think these fantasies people, you know, are expecting the to ever come true or do you think people are pretty happy. I mean, I think I’d be stunned if cheerleaders showed up at my door, I’m not sure I’d actually want them to show up, I’d probably be a little upset actually.

Heron Saline: Yeah, that’s a great question, and I think it’s probably, lands in each individual differently, and some things, because theta consciousness where fantasy lives, is also the seed of creativity, because the same thing happens, when we get a creative impulse about something, whether it’s, “What should I do tonight? Should I go to a movie or a restaurant?”, or “What kind of lovemaking would I really enjoy?”, or what ever it is, “Shall I go to this massage workshop or learn it from a book and just get together with my partner?”, any ideas you’re kicking around in your mind, we’re imagining them, and some of them we decide when we pick the right one it becomes a whole minded thing and we externalize it by going, “That’s the right choice for me, now I’m going to take steps to do it, and I start moving forward.” So that’s what creativity is literally and when you shut yourself off from your imagination, you shut yourself off from creativity.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Great. So are men or women more likely to have fantasies?

Heron Saline: Boy, I don’t, I can’t speak to that. That’s a great question though, I love that.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Alright.

Heron Saline: Do you have an idea about that?

Dr. Patti Taylor: You know, if I had to guess, I would say that men were more visual and had more fantasies about body parts, and that, you know, just looking at Play Boy, you know, the magazines our there and the pornography and just walking down the street and, you know, noticing women’s body parts and just maybe taking a whole fantasy based on that, and I would say that women probably had more emotional fantasies, “Oh, the white knight came in and swept me off my feet and, oh, catomia, I love you, I love you forever”, you know.

Heron Saline: That’s fascinating. I’m curious about it too.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That could just be, you know, biological. In any case, we are going to take a break, so please stay with us. This is Dr. Patti Taylor and I’m with Heron Saline, and we will be right back. You can find out more about Heron Saline at his website, http://www.guidedmindtour.com. I do want to mention that Heron teaches the work of Donna Markova, and we did do another show called Guide Exquisite Lovemaking Using Knowledge of the Mind, I think it was episode number 18, which was an amazing show on that subject, and Heron is an expert on how to use this system so, we actually have the expert here today, so just if you’re interested in this topic, you might want to check out that show. So please stay with us. We will be right back.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re back and I’m Dr. Patti Taylor, and we are talking to Heron Saline about creative fantasy in lovemaking. Before the break we were talking about the overall use of fantasy. I want to ask you now Heron about some particular ways to use fantasy. What are some of the things that we could do to kind of set the stage for fantasy, and even what might hinder that process?

Heron Saline: That’s a great question Patti, and it actually reminds me of something on one of your other podcasts you said about relaxation being so key to, women especially I think was the mention, being able to go into their orgasm in, you know, a really full way, and I work holistically with people and, you know, across the board, whether you’re talking about people’s minds, their bodies, their feelings, spiritual or attitudinal, health and presence, everything boils down to relaxation, and so we want to be really relaxed and support our partners in fantasy by being as relaxed as possible. Being really open to letting them be who they really are, being, the pace of it should be relaxed as opposed to rushed, if there’s any emotional tension, you want to clear that out by, like if somebody were uncomfortable with it, talk about that first so that that’s not sneaking in there. And then just really opening up and letting that person take the lead, the person who’s fantasizing takes the lead, in the same way that with really great touch, we want to have a listening touch with our partners that pays attention to how the touch is for them. And, is that making sense?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, I’m enjoying what you’re saying, and I’m also guessing that some approval and reassurance might feel really good if you’re kind of new at this, so if you were just starting to open up about, “Oh, I’m having this fantasy”, it might be wonderful if you heard your partner say, “Wow, tell me more. Ooh, what does it look like, what does it sound like…?”

Heron Saline: Asking for details, I love hearing that suggestion and that makes so much sense, to be encouraging and sort of expressing back a state of maybe even surprise or wonder to them as they report to you what’s going on in their fantasy mind, by just saying, say your part…, you start out, well what would be a good starting point for this fantasy to your partner, and your partner says, “You know, I’m just really remembering how hot it was for me when I was in high school the first time I got kissed, and that was so amazing to me and I, I remember the feeling in my body of how it, it was like electric excitement for me, and I’d really like to go back to that”, and instead of maybe something that might hinder it, might be going, “Oh, I don’t want to talk about something a long time ago”, but just to be in wonder and say, “Wow, how interesting. Tell me about that”, and let them take the lead and take you deeper, and then what you just suggested, asking for some details, “What are you noticing as you remember that right now?”

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, tell me more.

Heron Saline: Tell me more. “What did it look like? What do you remember about how fast or slow it happened? What was going through your mind?” You know, any other details really help, and if you ask open questions it allows the person fantasizing to take the lead, their mind will go right into it because people love having people hold space for them while they’re fantasizing.

Dr. Patti Taylor: It’s true. I’m laughing about it now ‘cause I actually have supported a number of people in going into their fantasies, and very often I have no idea what, you know, floats their boat, you know, basically what their hot button is. Maybe they want to be slightly embarrassed for example…

Heron Saline: Yeah.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I, that’s not my thing, I mean I don’t know, I don’t really that, or they want to like worship my hand or something, that doesn’t really, you know, resonate. But all I need to say its, “Well, tell me what you want me to say to you right now”, and they’ll tell me exactly, they’ll supply me, they’ll say, “Well say this, say that, tell me this.”

Heron Saline: They’ll supply the details, exactly, and two things you can always ask that really help with your partner are, “What are you noticing now?”, as they go into the fantasy, and if it feels kind of complete or you’re not sure where to go in asking another specific question about something, you can always say, “And then what happens?” Let the story, whatever that is inside their mind unfold a little bit more. Another key point that really enhances it, and this goes back to the thinking patterns model because it’s going to engage a different speed of brain wave that they can bring to their lovemaking, is in addition to talking about what the fantasy is, maybe doing some touch with that. So, maybe while they’re saying, “Oh, yeah, I was in a parked car at the high school parking lot when I first got kissed”, and then you be, you might be like, “Wow, can I brush my fingers on your lips while you’re remembering that really soft”, and just take a moment and go out of the talk and go into a physical sensation thing, or “Can I hold you in my arms while you’re telling me this or caress you”, or any number of things or depending on where you are in your play it might be, “Wow, can I fondle your genitals while we’re talking about this?”, and just bring it to that level or, “Will you show me how it is?”, some people really like role play, and physically embodying and enacting what happened as a way of deepening the kinesthetic aspect of their fantasy.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I just, I love that. You can always ask somebody because you know what, you have no idea what someone will tell you. I mean I asked someone recently and they went out and bought me, it was a good friend of mine, you know, it’s like a, what is it, a high school outfit actually. I’m laughing ‘cause you said the high school and I guess they wanted to see me and I am pretty cute and they have a lot of little cute little high school things now, and I mean I just really did it for them, and if I didn’t ask, I would’ve never known and I wouldn’t have a cute little skirt either.

Heron Saline: Yeah, that’s a great example. So it could be presentation, which is a visual form. Then we have again the three key elements that guarantee anybody present is going to use their whole mind, three different levels of consciousness, which really amps up your participation and your engagement in any erotic play, is to have visual, like presentation, what outfit was it, whether you’re just imagining that or you put it on and that’s part of the, how you’re playing that night, or an auditory and kinesthetic, get all three in and you’ll hit them at all levels of their consciousness.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, and I think you just can’t assume that what you’re experiencing is what they, is going to turn them on because for me that doesn’t make sense, but again, back to asking. Well let me ask you, are there any exercises that we can, you know, give our listeners?

Heron Saline: Yeah, there are. I’d be glad to talk you through and the listeners through a brief experience. Lets just start out with a very brief experience of imagination, because that’s what fantasy mind is, just to get into, “Oh, this is what we’re talking about”, so we’re, we really want to go into like a daydream, so…

Dr. Patti Taylor: Alright, so you’re not driving your car right now, right?

Heron Saline: You’re not driving your car right now, yeah, pull over and put on the parking break and turn off the engine if you’re going to do that, that’s a good thing to notice for being safe. But find your right way to get comfortable and drop in to your mind and let your breathing relax. That’s a big one. And already inside you’re probably noticing yourself starting to slow down a little bit. And a good starting point, find some, what is your starting point in this moment? It might be, “Oh, I just really want to be held in this moment”, or it might be, “I would love to throw my partner down on the mattress and just nail that person so good right now”, or it might be, “Wow, I really want to hear how somebody’s attracted to me in this moment”, or it might be like I said a memory or an imagined fantasy scene. Find out what that is right in this moment. Do you have anything coming to mind Patti?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, okay, this is live reality podcasting here. I had the fantasy of being with a really hot lover and he was making really sexy sort of animal noises, little growls…

Heron Saline: Great, and are you hearing those in your inner mind, soundtrack?

Dr. Patti Taylor: I was hearing them and I was feeling them and he was touching me…

Heron Saline: Oh, wonderful.

Dr. Patti Taylor: and, I was getting turned on too.

Heron Saline: Good, so great. So, you’ve got your starting point, and I’m sure the listeners may have gone to what their starting point is in this moment, and that is where we’re going to go from, so I’m going to do what I just suggested a moment and say, good, now you’ve got your starting point. Be in that. What’s next? And what are you noticing now? Patti, you were just noticing feeling in your body as he’s making these noises. What’s the next thing? What happens next? Maybe something you see. Maybe something you feel or do. Maybe some more sounds or you make a sound.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay.

Heron Saline: Do you see how I’m getting into this? I’m leading with questions and questions are how we lead into our open mind so…

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, well…

Heron Saline: I think that’s a little brief experience of getting into fantasy mind.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah.

Heron Saline: How was that for you?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well, it was really hot. My, my lover was really gorgeous and…

Heron Saline: Mm hmm.

Dr. Patti Taylor: he kind of started grinding his hips into me, you know, the pelvis grind kind of thing, and he started telling me, “I’m so hot for you. Ooh, you’re so sexy, and I want you. I must have you now”, and he was just passionately, and I was sort of wondering, “I don’t know, should I or not?”, and he was intent on overcoming my resistance and just sort of intensifying things.

Heron Saline: Wonderful. You got a lot of great details. And probably if we had checked in, your brain waves would have dropped to a slower speed as you went inside and gathered those up. And so the next exercise, can I do another little one?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Sure, I would say I was having contractions too.

Heron Saline: Okay, great, ‘cause that was the next thing I wanted to mention was that we also have inner and outer thoughts, and because holistic people don’t separate the body from the mind, we call it, the one word, we call it ‘the body mind’.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Alright, well lets do the next one too, ‘cause I think our listeners can follow along…

Heron Saline: Okay.

Dr. Patti Taylor: and do this with their partner at home sometime and start…

Heron Saline: And try this with your partner. So go into it in the same way, get your starting point, start to ask your partner some details. What are they experiencing next? What are they seeing, hearing, feeling? What’s happening in any order that’s right for them, and you’ll learn about, by their reaction what, where they go to, or just ask them and they’ll tell you. They’ll go right to it. Now we’re going to deepen that a little bit by having not only some receptive stuff, “Oh, I’m noticing in the story in my mind, I’m hearing the sounds of this lover and I’m hearing him tell me how much he wants me, but now I’m going to start, not only, I’m imagining feeling the contractions and I’m feeling, now I’m going to start adding a little physical movement of rocking my pelvis a little bit. Or maybe my mouth starts moving in a certain way”, and adding physical involvement to that, which takes it deeper. And then we’re going to go back to the questions. What’s next? What happens next in the fantasy? Where does it go?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, well in my fantasy I kind of hold him off a little bit, it’s like, “Whoa, whoa, we have to slow down”, and he can hardly slow down, but he sort of understands and I kind of slow him down, and he starts kissing me all over my body and just gently taking off my clothes and he’s just overwhelmed with astonishment at how beautiful I am and worshipping me from head to toe, and of course I’m quivering and throbbing with, you know…

Heron Saline: Wonderful, great. So you’re getting both inner and outer stuff, you’re getting things that you’re perceiving and expressing and contributing into it, your own actions, and you’re getting visual, auditory and kinesthetic details. So you’re really using your whole mind as you’re fantasizing there, and in this exercise as I’m sitting across from you I was able to contribute toward that with some questions. So I think that was, it looked like you were having a pretty nice time enjoying going into that and developing it. How, how did it feel to let your mind go in that way?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Oh, I was totally turned on, and I must say I had a very helpful fantasy partner.

Heron Saline: Good, great.

Dr. Patti Taylor: And it felt great. It was pretty easy to do too.

Heron Saline: It really is, it’s what we’re here for. Our minds love to do this, our minds love to be engaged in, at all levels instead of just outward. We love to be in our deep minds too and when we can find ways to bring that to our sex play and lovemaking, it really enriches it.

Dr. Patti Taylor: You know, and I have to say that if my partner did that with me, I would give credit to my partner. That would be like my partner gave me that experience. I wouldn’t feel like I was cheating on my partner, I would like, “Wow”, it’s like, “Wow, my partner is hot and sexy”, maybe I would tell that to my partner and my partner would then realize, “Boy, I didn’t know she liked animal sounds and to be treated that way, ‘cause, you know, that’s not the way we make love”, and, you know, actually that might give my partner some new ideas. In fact, he’s probably going to listen to this show and go, “Oh my god, this is a great idea.”

Heron Saline: I love hearing that, that’s, and that’s exactly how it is, you’re using your whole mind, you’re connected and creativity and actually personal growth is happening, and healing and self-development can happen. You learn more about yourself and you bring that to, “Wow, how else can we use this in our play? It’s wonderful.”

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right. So, so what other things have you seen people do to get the fantasy going?

Heron Saline: Role play is a big one that some people like to play with, and for some people that’s a little out there or embarrassing or something, but you know, if you have somebody, you can try it as much as you care to, solo could be a good introduction to that in whatever way by like putting on a costume, or just going in your fantasy mind to, oh, maybe this is like I said, the airport example or meeting somebody at the supermarket or somebody that you know in your social life, but you’re not sexually active with and, and acting what it would be like, what would be a scenario where you did connect and mutually engage erotically with one another and to step into that in your mind at least, and it is different from doing it. But it’s great to give yourself permission to do that, the freedom mentally to explore that and what does it mean to you, how would it be for you, what’s hot for you about it.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well that’s really exciting. I’m guessing, and you work a lot with hypnotherapy and with, you know, healing modalities, and I’m guessing that there’s actually a deep healing that comes for a lot of people when the do this, in addition to just the fun and the pleasure, I mean if, you know, I’m just making this up, but lets say somebody goes into a military uniform or, I mean it could be anything, and it just does that fantasy, but maybe they’re expressing some side of them self, or a nurse uniform or a teacher uniform or a school girl or whatever it is, that maybe they’re expressing some side of them self that’s latent or really wants to come out, and when that side comes out they feel more whole and more themselves, and that they’re actually more normal and actually, do you see that?

Heron Saline: I think that was very well put and I totally agree with you and I’ve seen many times with people that I’ve worked with professionally on really meeting themselves in their fantasy minds, and working especially with sexual fantasy because there has been so much repression in the past of how most people grow, grow up and are raised, so to be able to give yourself permission and your partners permission to explore that in a way that is safe and to find that out, you might be staunchly anti militaristic in your personal politics, but for some reason, military uniforms and like connecting erotically would be really liberating and powerful for you, either as a military person in your fantasy mind or with a military person, and there’s just some charge, and there’s part of it that’s a huge mystery, but it’s so delightful to get to welcome that part and say, “Gee, I don’t know what this is yet, but I’m going to explore it and find out”, and you can stop yourself at any point if there’s a boundary for you.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, and I don’t even think we have to know why, I mean, a mother, a harried mother might just want to be a little girl for an afternoon and have a lollipop or a business executive, you know, my, or a business, or a male business executive might just want to be a little kid for a day, might just be a relief or, you know, and we don’t, we don’t have to understand why, I think it’s really nice with fantasy is we can just kind of do it and then go back to our real life ‘cause it’s just fantasy.

Heron Saline: Exactly, it’s really, it boils down to enjoying ourselves, our whole selves.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah. So I’ve seen a lot of people just be very happy with having creative fantasy. So we’re going to take another break. This is Dr. Patti Taylor, and we’re talking to Heron Saline about creative lovemaking with fantasy. You can find out more about Heron Saline at his website, http://www.guidedmindtour.com

Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re back and I’m Dr. Patti Taylor, and we are talking to Heron Saline about creative fantasy in lovemaking. So, obviously when we talk about the imagination and the mind, it does bring up a lot of stuff. I just want to say that as we expand, as I expand myself and my lovemaking, it’s just a natural outcome that the more relaxed I get and the more turned on I get, it’s when my imagination does get activated and, you know, so rather than repress it and control it, I think it just really makes sense to learn how to explore it and be friends with it, is really what makes the most sense, and understand it.

Heron Saline: I agree with you. That’s a wonderful thing to be able to do and I think the more familiar we become with our minds, how to engage with them holistically at will, we also learn how to turn them off if we don’t want in that, how to just be in our bodies for our lovemaking if that’s what we really want and let our mind rest.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I think that’s wonderful, and sometimes my fantasies, in fact very often, you know, just speaking for myself, are very often not about, you know, role play or anything, but very often for myself I’ll just become the ocean or the clouds and I’ll have my partner become a redwood tree, or I’ll imagine myself on a flying carpet, or I’ll just be turning into a supernova, and so I have a lot of fantasies that just expand me and aren’t necessarily full of, you know, you know, I don’t know, images like that, but are kind of natural organic images.

Heron Saline: But they’re, I’m hearing you say you’re using your fantasy mind to take on a different consciousness and sort of a way of being that enriches and brings you more fully into the way you want to be in your body during lovemaking.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, I guess…

Heron Saline: That’s a great creative use of fantasy. It doesn’t have to be body builders or cheerleaders, you know.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, and that it just, it’s almost, it’s a sign that I’m getting more turned on and it’s a natural thing that happens and it’s natural for me, and I think for people, so it’s just, so I want to talk a little bit before we close out the show of, I’m guessing that a lot of our listeners would love to know about how to, you know, that you’re a resource and there are probably a lot of people like you out there, but you’re just one resource, so how do you work with people as a hypnotherapist for those people that might come to someone like yourself, you know, who do have, who do have fantasies, you know, how would they use someone like you?

Heron Saline: Well thanks for asking that, and I bring several tools to my work, ‘cause I do work holistically, so I’m certified in a couple kinds of body work. I’ve trained in breath work. I’m pretty familiar and comfortable with sexuality and things like erotic massage techniques. There’s the mind elements, which play a big part of what I do in terms of both hypnosis and also personal thinking patterns model I bring to that. I also have quite a bit of training in non violent communication and the principles of all that come in, and so the way I work with people when they come to me, some people are troubled by their fantasies, some people are scared of the part of themselves that they’re going to find out, and I get to really create a space for them or hold a space for them to not only talk about that a little bit, but to maybe enter into that fantasy a little bit, and to explore it in a way that they’re, first of all they’re not alone with it, and also they get to have maybe some perspectives offered to them that support them to be in a healthy way with their own thoughts, and to honor and love that part of themselves.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So, I love that, so, that they can just have some perspective around healthy safe positive valuable ways to deal with something that is a part of themselves.

Heron Saline: Absolutely. I mean sometimes it comes up, I work with people on the dynamics of shame, if they have sexual or body shame. But sometimes it’s just giving them space and hearing from another human being, that same sort of energy that we were talking about in the partner exercise of, “Wow, isn’t that interesting. That’s what’s alive for you right now”, that whole mystery being reflected back to them of, “Gosh, I don’t know, and it sounds like you maybe don’t even know why x, y, z are a big turn on to you, but I love that about you. How wonderful. Can we explore that together and I’ll be here with you and if anything comes up, I have some tools in my box to maybe give you some things you need to feel great about yourself and learn how to be with that in a way that shows respect for not only you, your partners and the world around you.”

Dr. Patti Taylor: Ever meet anyone that didn’t have fantasies, that goes to you and they’re going, “I need some fantasies.”

Heron Saline: I haven’t. That’d be an interesting, interesting thing. I don’t, I’ve never met anybody who says they didn’t have fantasies.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Interesting. Well, we’re almost out of time, so I just, I have one more question I’d like to ask. What brings you, and you don’t have to think of the most sure, but what’s one of the things that brings you the most joy in the work you do?

Heron Saline: Oh, thanks for asking. One of the biggest needs that gets met for me in my work with clients is I have a big need for trust that gets met, ‘cause I love the trust inherent of getting to be present with another human being while they’re being that vulnerable about something that’s internal, that I can never ever know about unless they let me know about, and when they trust me with that, it’s thrilling for me, whether we’re working on hypnotherapy for quit smoking or weight loss kind of things or on sexual fantasy issues or sexuality or sexual identity or any number of things, to get to be present and just be with them within their inner world. The way I put it on my website is, I give people guided tours of their own minds. And I love to be able to do that, I love that I know enough about the overall structure of how all our minds work, that I can invite them in and show them around the beauty and the amazing uniqueness of themselves.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow, well thank you. You certainly have enough qualifications to guide people in a way that would make me feel safe in going to you and just a huge amount of qualifications so, and you do do phone work too, I’m guessing.

Heron Saline: Yeah, I do. Thank you.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yeah, so it’s been an absolute joy having you here today. I’m all inspired to take galaxy-like leaps in adding savor and spice and sugar and all things naughty and nice to my life.

Heron Saline: Yeah, don’t forget the naughty ones too and thank you for having me and for listening and I really, I bless you in exploring your own deep mind.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay, well thank you so much. This does bring us to the end of our show. So I thank you all listeners for listening. Please send me email at [email protected]. You can find out again, one more time about Heron at http://www.guidedmindtour.com For text and transcripts of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media Network, please visit our website at personallifemedia.com. You can post a blog comment on our blog page too. So, if you haven’t already, please be sure to subscribe to the Expanded Lovemaking show, so you can get automatic updates as soon as they become available, and you can do that right in iTunes if you’d like. Also, please visit me, Dr. Patti Taylor, at expandedlovemaking.com, where you can join my mailing list and find out more about my products, services and events. This is your host, Dr. Patti Taylor. That’s all for now. I remain yours in ever expanding lovemaking, and I’ll see you next week.