Episode 11: Tantra's Path to Embodied Bliss with Daniel Odier, PhD., A Renowned Tantric Master in the Kashmiri Shaivist Tantric Tradition

Listen Now
RSS: Subscribe
RSS: iTunes
Have you ever wanted to travel to faraway lands to meet a real Tantric master? We hear so much about Tantra as a set of practices that supercharge our love life, but, what are they, really? Rarely can we go to the source of this profound knowing. Now you can find out what the ancient authentic Tantric masters taught to infuse our bodies "and our lives" with, bliss, awareness, and pure expansion. Daniel Odier, Ph.D., is a renowned Tantric master in the Kashmiri Shaivist Tantric tradition. Its all-encompassing practices include the body, and even sex. You'll discover the beauty, simplicity and accessibility of the basic Kashmiri Shaivist teachings. You'll learn why integrating your whole being - (body, mind, heart, and spirit) - and ending all sense of separation, set you free. Find out why honoring the feminine is so important in today's world, and why integrating the two poles of Shiva and Shakti, male and female, within each of us, is so valuable. Daniel describes the elegant tandava, or ancient tantric dance, and special attributes of Kashmiri Shaivist massage. Learn what desire is, and why we want to celebrate it. Daniel also shares deeply about passion, and why truly passionate people are so turned on, artistic, and romantic. Hear how Tantric lovemaking starts out -- and ends - differently from regular lovemaking - consistent with a path of flowing in truly embodied bliss! Listen as we end with an inspired, shared micropractice!

Transcript

Tantra’s Path to Embodied Bliss: Dr. Patti Talks to Daniel Odier, PhD., A Renowned Tantric Master in the Tantric Tradition of Kashmiri Shaivism

Announcer:  This program is intended for mature audiences only.

[intro music]

In this amazing show you'll hear from a living Tantric master.  Learn why your passion is precious and get practices to develop and deepen your desires.  Discover your bliss... it's always there and why it's always in your body for you to enjoy and share with lovers.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the “Expanded Lovemaking” show.  I am your host, Dr. Patti Taylor of EpxandedLovemaking.com, and I teach people how to give and receive way more pleasure than they ever dreamed possible.  Today on the show we are talking about the sacred vibration: A Tantric Path to Embodied Bliss.  Our guest is Daniel Odier, a Tantric master from the tradition of Kashmiri Shaivism.

Daniel Odier: Everything based on consciousness. When the attention goes back, the consciousness is manifesting and is clear.  And we try to have a deep consciousness of what desire is and to share all desire. We all know that as much as we desire something the minute we get it its less interesting than before.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  For those of you new to all of this, Tantra is an eclectic collection of practices passed down through the ages leading to the expansion of consciousness, divine bliss, and awakening.  Welcome, Daniel Odier.

Daniel Odier:  Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  We are talking to Daniel Odier in France.  I understand you are in Normandy at the moment?

Daniel Odier:  Yes

Dr. Patti Taylor: Daniel Odier is a Tantric Master initiated into the lineage of Kashmiri Shaivist Tantra.  He has been ordained as well into the Zen Soto tradition and received transmission into the Chinese Chan lineage.  As a university professor, Daniel taught both Tantra and Buddhism.  Presently he gives workshops and seminars all over the world.  He is a prolific author. Two of his best-selling books include Desire: The Tantric Path to Awakening, and Tantric Quest: An Encounter with Absolute Love.

I am pleased to have with you today.  I think our listeners would love to hear what these masters of consciousness have to say about desire. I think there a lot of confusion out there:  Can desire really be a good thing, or better yet be a path to bliss? And if so how can we have more of it?  So today we will find out what Kashmiri Shaivist Tantra is, why is desire is considered a blessing and what happens to our lives, including our love lives when we infuse our every waking moment with desire?  So let’s get this started.

Kashmiri Shaivist Tantra—Daniel, can you tell us what it is?

Daniel Odier: It comes from the sacred tradition from the Hindu valley that thrived very widely in Kashmir in the eighth, ninth, and tenth centuries.  There were many, many great masters. Then in the thirteenth century it disappeared a little bit and became more secret.  This is really the tradition that seems to disappear and surface again.  But it is rejoicing to see that it never disappears; in fact it just goes into hiding and suddenly reappears.  The very original approach is based on the vision of Vasagupta in which he links the all desire to all movement of the human mind on the path to awakening.

So, there is absolutely nothing which is withdrawn or forbidden.  We use absolutely all emotion, all desire, all tradition, very much in the world, to become more vibrant.

The whole thing is based on the idea of Spanda.  Spanda means vibration.  It is a little bit like a musical instrument.  In order to get the vibration, which is our own nature, we have to practice very special yoga which is called Tandava, which is a dance.  It is a most ancient form of pure efforts of mystical dance, very beautiful, that may look a little bit like tai chi but is completely different.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So you interpret one of the most beloved Kashmiri Shaivist doctrines, the Yoga Spanda Karika, which I might say is one of the most incredibly poetic and amazing Tantric doctrines I have every read.   The principles in there could have been written on the subway yesterday.  They are so relevant and crisp.  Could you just tell us a few of the principles as well as the part about desire, just as a foundation for where we’re are going? Just a few more of these Tantric principles for us, perhaps from the Yoga Spanda Karika?

Daniel Odier: The main idea of the Spanda Karika is to take the whole human being as one and not to divide it into purity or impurity.  And this is really the whole tradition of Tantra which is the vision of the most ancient text of yoga. Of course, to achieve this unity you have to go back and to accept all the different faces of yoga.  Finality and the liberation are going to blow this finality to a state of illumination where all the choices are going to vanish into space.  Space is another word for Spanda.   if you reach liberation you reach illumination and space.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow.  So the whole point of the Kashmiri Shaivist is to go into liberation and to get that we are this beautiful space, and to end the separation, and to get that we are this amazing wholeness. And these separations, that I think we all have, we see a lot of people that say well, how do I reconcile my sexuality with my spirituality?  But I guess for a Kashmiri Shaivist that’s kind of a silly question, wouldn’t that be?

Daniel Odier:  Yes because the practical event is completely open to sexuality.  There is absolutely no contradiction, no difference.  The fact is that the body is totally the integrated to the past.  We have to reconcile the body and the mind and the emotion as one thing. This is the yoga, to be one again without separation, without distinction, without anything that is taken off of the body to be considered impure. Impurity is a word that does not appear in the Tantra.  It is a concept that we don’t have.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So, thank you.  But you do have Shiva and Skakti now and many listeners may be hearing that word for the first time.  That is the essential male and female principle, is that correct?

Daniel Odier:  Yes. In the constant love play they are one in every Tantric text.  Most of the Tantric texts state that Shiva and Shakti are one in the knowledge and one in the body.  It just divides the dialogue which is the teaching of the Tantra.

When the Tantra is explained, or shown, the sexual union is one again.   The teacher is teaching that they should be regarded as one thing. This is exactly what the yogi or yogini try to achieve— to be this one thing.  Not to be a male, not to be a female, not be anything but the space where everything is alive.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  You tell a beautiful story in your book Desire, about an ancient legend where the gods and goddesses gave the power of divine pleasure to women to give to men to absorb all the strong male energy back into balance on the earth. And everyone was happy with this arrangement.  I love that story from your book Desire.  And I was wondering what does that story have to say to us today in today’s world?

Daniel Odier:  I think it’s very important today because there is still a kind of struggle between the genders with each one try to get the most. If you consider the human being as the unity of both, then you can explore the path you miss and integrate the path you miss.  Good yogis or yoginis integrate both parts of Shiva and Shakti and this is one of the ends that you get to—to be this one union of the masculine and feminine.

In the past it was very frequent that the male master would wear women’s dresses or a female master would wear men’s dress to express this unity that they were not really a man or not really a woman but the union of both.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So it’s more about really embracing our fullness of all of our energy.  So for the woman, is it really for the woman to embrace her Shiva nature and for the man to embrace his Shakti nature? Is it for all of us to come into that balance within ourselves then?

Daniel Odier:  Yes because in a way the yogi or yogini has to be sensitive to vision, and if he is not the incarnation of the Shiva/Shakti then a part is missing.  The beautiful thing is that when you are one you feel that nothing is missing because you are both parts.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well I’d like to get down to the practical here.  I am guessing that a lot of our listeners might be getting very excited about the thought of the world coming into more balance and maybe themselves coming into some more balance.  And I am just wondering, you talk about some wonderful micro-practices in your book that people can start to do right away.  And I was wondering, some of them are really incredibly beautiful.  If you could maybe give us a few examples of some micro-practices that people could start to do just right away.

Daniel Odier:  The micro-practices are a very interesting form of yoga which is really typical of Shaivism. It is based on the fact that the mind is fast and the mind likes to be fast.  The masters, the yogis of the past had a wonderful idea to invent a practice which goes to the same speed as the mind.  You don't counteract the mind, so they are very short.  You practice for three, five, ten, or fifteen seconds at the most. They are simple, based on the present.  You feel for ten seconds exactly what you are doing and you do this practice with everything that life brings you.  You do them every day, but they are different every day because every day life brings you something else.

You just take something very simple. For example, you take a cup of tea.  You try to be totally present to the cup of tea, to the smell of the tea, to the space of the tea just for a few seconds then you leave it.  And then you do the same with all of the experiences you have during the day.  When you do that very often, very lightly, and for a very small, very short time then suddenly very easily the presence will give you much more joy.  And the world suddenly starts to go to the present by itself because it is much more fulfilling than anything else. It is very easy to practice and very efficient.  If somebody does that for a few weeks, suddenly their level of attention of presence of the capacity to be one with things is going very, very fast.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  You know you call them micro-practices and I think that really resonates with the modern mind that is going very fast.  But these are also talked about in the Vijnana Bhairava, which also goes back to ninth century A.D., so these are also rooted in very ancient practices.

Daniel Odier:  Yes, and truly it is one of the most original ways to practice. It is very old, and very efficient, and very simple, and everyone can understand this.  It is very easy.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Thank you very much.  I'd just like to ask you maybe one more micro-practice before we go to a break and maybe that one might be one on the breath.  If you could just suggest one that we could do with using our breath.

Daniel Odier: Just to be conscious when you breathe in and out a few times a day.  Not to practice really, but much more to bring the consciousness to the breath and to feel that you are breathing completely, relieving the breath completely.  And then suddenly when you give the permission, quite easily the body goes back to its spontaneity.

In fact, we are not crazy about practicing a lot.  Many practices give you so many things to do.  We just do them continuously.  Many give you many things to do.  We do ours lightly, and without much thought.  And that is very, very important.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, really what you say is that the consciousness comes first, right?

Daniel Odier: Yes.  Everything is based on consciousness.  When attention goes back, the consciousness is manifesting and is clear.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Then you don't really need to practice.  That's what I love about Kashmiri Shaivism.  There's really nothing to do.  It's really to me the ultimate.

Daniel Odier: So we are not doing.  There is no “doing” yoga. And this is really interesting because many people think that they are to “do” the yoga but no, there is nothing to do.  This is something that many people don't understand.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  When you are in that state of grace, when you're in that awareness, it's all just happening. Then whatever you do in that state of grace is coming out of the consciousness, isn't it?

Daniel Odier:  Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Wow. Well no wonder this is such an amazing tradition.  Is it a cosmology, or set of practices?  How would you call it?

Daniel Odier:  I would say it's much more practical because it is a not a religious tradition but a mystical tradition.  And this is truly different.  And so it's a tradition which is supposed to be taught to any human being, whatever culture, conditioning, or race, or nature.  It's really very simple, but these practices work. They produce a change and they work exactly on the contrary to many practices where you have to accumulate so many good things to become a yogi.

They work exactly on the contrary because we don't accumulate, but we are taking away everything that we have accumulated in the past.  It is much as if we have a beautiful apartment which is all white and clean and finished and suddenly we decide to take out of this apartment every object that we have—less and less— and the more we do that the more the apartment is clear, beautiful, and light. We do that with the yoga. We take out all of the accumulation just become space.  And the body is just becoming space.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Well, they do work.  I know from my own practice and I know when I talk to the people who are real masters in the art of giving pleasure, they all say that the psychic energy and the genius comes from the consciousness.  Awareness of this practice really teaches you how to do that.

Anyway, we are going to take a short break to support our sponsors.  So this is Dr. Patti Taylor and I'm with Daniel Odier.  And we'll be right back.  Daniel Odier is the author of Yoga Spanda Karika which we've just been talking about which has some fabulous information on desire which I just referred to.  He is also the author of Desire: A Tantric Path to Awakening, Tantric Quest, and more.  So you can visit him at danielodier.com.

 Dr. Patti Taylor: We're back and I'm Dr. Patti Taylor and we're talking to Daniel Odier about the Sacred Vibration, a Tantric Path to Embodied Bliss.  Before the break, we were talking about Kashmiri Shaivist Tantra.  I want to talk to you more now about desire.  What it is and how we can have more.  You were talking about it earlier.  You said that desire was a very a major part of Kashmiri Shaivism.  Just in reading your books you also say that it's this sacred tremoring or vibration in the body that is objectless.  So I was wondering if you could just tell us a bit more about desire.

Daniel Odier:  Desire is a very important part of the path because most of the paths withdraw desire as something dangerous.  We think on the contrary, that it is the life force, which is absolutely essential. We think that the idea to suppress desire is the craziest of all desire in a way, and so we try not to do that.  We try to have a deep consciousness for what desire is and to feel all desire in general collapse on its subject. And we all know that as much as we desire something, the minute we get it, it is less interesting than before, so we try to escape this kind of fatality about desire.

It’s very difficult, because most of the time it’s just the movement of the ego that wants things, and when this ego disappearing and adding more space suddenly we find another way of desiring things which is much more like manifestation of vital power that we have in the body. Then of course, the idea to which the object or preferred object, disappears, more or less, because it’s just like a fabulous energy that goes to the space, of course, it’s like an object too but in a very different way, not something very precise, it’s something that goes around the object and come from it into space. It’s really a path of humor.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So what you are saying is that it would be wonderful to learn how to desire without desiring with our ego, but to just to have desire independent of any object?

Daniel Odier: Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Just to be desire itself.  To walk around just sort of in flames of turn-on.  Is that poetic?

Daniel Odier:  Yes, a little bit the same thing with passion. We think we’re to live passionately through the passion to something or to someone, but passion can be a general field.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So that could be like a state of enlightenment. To go around saying Man, I'm really turned on. Wow, is that cool, geez, is that wonderful! Whoa, look at that! People [who are] turned on about everything in life!  They are the actual yoginis, the enlightened people, aren't they?

Daniel Odier:  Yes

Dr. Patti Taylor: They are passionate about everything but they are not holding on to anything. That's it, isn't it?

Daniel Odier:  Yes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Kind of like me, and you.

Daniel Odier:  They are passionate about everything: about art, about beauty, about all these things that many spiritual people look at something a little bit suspect. So there is a great admiration for music, for dance, for a tree, for poetry, for paintings.  Many Tantric masters were artists, or musicians, or even scientist.  In fact, everything that can be set into vibration is part of the yoga so passion and desire can set us into vibration very well so they are magnificent parts of yoga.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So I guess the liberation is once you don't have to have it, you can love it in a certain way.  Is that also true?

Daniel Odier:  Yes and even if you have it, when it appears, the vibration does not disappear, so it's not a problem, because this is the main idea of the people who have used desire.  They said that when the desire, when the object disappears, they are set free.

You are not free, if you are not in the state of yoga; otherwise there is no “set free”. Things come and disappear and everything’s like that.

This is so original and so deep because certainly we have nothing that goes against us, there is nothing that can block us and there is nothing that is not perfect for the part. Then everything that happens in life could be integrated very deeply because there is no choice to pick this thing or this or that thing.  It flows and when we communicate with the flow – it’s very rich in its freedom.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That's very beautiful.  I really see that about the desire, the turn on.  The turn on is really a turn on in freedom and that is really beautiful.  So I'm going to sort of go into another part here which is the embodied bliss.  I know you say you recommend massages throughout one's life in this form of Tantra.  And I was wondering if there's a special type of massage that our listeners might practice that has a particular Kashmiri Shaivist flavor to it?

Daniel Odier:  Yes, the massage is exactly like Tandava or the dance, like Tandava with two people.  So it is same principle to let the body communicate with space without will, without tension, without the emotional tension, or physical tension.  When your arms or your whole body could really dance into the space, you can do that with another human being too.  And, this is what we call the Kashmiri massage.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That's totally amazing.  This is that Tandava again.  Can you give us a picture of what it might look like?  I'm absolutely enthralled.  I'm so turned on.  What's the picture?

Daniel Odier:  Tandava looks like Tai Chi a little bit.  So you know, the flow, legs are wide open and whole body is communicating with space.  There is nothing to learn.  You don't have to memorize chant or movement.  It is totally spontaneous and based on moving very, very slowly, without will, without tension.  It is easy to explain and a good thing to do.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So one person is holding the other person and just sort of feeling where the spaces open up, and that sort of thing, in the massage?

Daniel Odier: The massage, there are very precise points. You touch and you flow there is there are some things you have to learn to do this massage, but the main thing is no will, no emotional tension, no physical tension: this is really difficult, and to flow with wherever one needs to flow.

Dr. Patti Taylor: More going into the space again and opening up the space?

Daniel Odier:  Yes, the whole tradition is going into space at any point.  It’s really space, space, space.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Great.  The kind of bliss that you would go into, to go into for doing the Tandava or the massage, could that bring you into bliss?

Daniel Odier:  Yes, of course. Once I asked my master, Lady Devi, so what is the purpose of the massage?  And she said, no purpose at all. The main thing is total illumination, which is quite nice.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I guess there are 130 ways to go into bliss. Or looking at your cup of tea and those micro-practices are no different really. So in Tantric lovemaking then, just turning to there. You say that you want to start with passion and then you keep slowing down  until you are so totally, really relaxed, that you feel infinite space going into the infinite space.

Daniel Odier:  Interesting thing: yes we don't see passion as sentimental or romantic, but as a life force so it's not passion that goes to the completeness of what people call the relationship; ideally if you are with one there should be no relationship at all.  Then it would be perfect.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I would agree with you. It makes every moment very fresh, like you just met that person.  It's very exciting.

Daniel Odier: The relationship is an old story based on memory and past. So when you have that its very difficult.  When you have the freshness of not knowing the person you can live with the same person for 45 years.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Always on your first date.  Always very exciting.  Well then you have passion and freedom, right? Well sign me up for this.  Listen, we are going to take another short break to support our sponsors.  I'm Dr. Patti Taylor of ExpandedLovemaking.com and we're with Daniel Odier.  Daniel Odier is the author of, among many other books, Desire: the Tantric Path to Awakening, and Tantric Quest: an Encounter with Absolute Love. You can learn more about him at danielodier.com. 

[music]

Dr. Patti Taylor: We're back and I'm Dr. Patti Taylor and we’re talking to Daniel Odier about the Sacred Vibration: a Tantric path to Embodied Bliss.   Okay we were talking about desire and embodying the sacred vibration into our love life.  We were going into Tantric lovemaking and starting with passion, but a certain kind of passion, where it was a passion of non attachment. You say to keep slowing down until you are totally relaxed that you feel infinite space inside and out.

Daniel Odier:   Yes, most of our relationships start slowly and go fast and then its over.  To really enjoy it, it’s really interesting to take the whole thing in the reverse. Then you have the huge passion for the body -- all defenses are completely exploding. Then when you are in this peak of intensity in lovemaking, you go down, you go down, you go down, you go down, and then, you go to family. And it’s total end of story. And family is really important. We don't think that many people think that lovemaking is a door to elimination or to family. 

On the contrary, the family has to be there before the lovemaking, then becoming a door. That is the great confusion about Tantra. People think that it something else, that is sacred sexuality, as they say, and for us, there is no sacred sexuality. Everything is sacred, or nothing is sacred. Sexuality has no particular place in the system, for the simple reason that Tantra means totality.

Then we can have totality with all things, and not only with sexuality. We do not make love in the way you make love by family or elimination. Even Abhinavagupta, who lived in the eleventh century, said, “If Tantra would have something to do with sexuality, my donkey would be my master”.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Some Tantras may have something to do with sexuality.  But not Kashmiri Shaivist Tantra.  This has to do with freedom, and passion, and divine bliss, and liberation in this lifetime, and the divine vibration.

 

Daniel Odier: We don't find [or link the] vibration to any action, yoga, lovemaking, or anything else, but it’s there, manifesting. And therefore the yoga or lovemaking or Tandava becomes mystical. If we don’t do it then we miss it.

Dr. Patti Taylor: You do the lovemaking to experience the unification of Shiva and Shakti.  To have oneness inside yourself.  Each person does it for their own awakening.  Isn’t that correct?

Daniel Odier: Yes, but for that you need two people who are incarnations of the Spanda, otherwise they are just making love, which is quite nice, but it is not a mystical experience.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  It can lead to awakening, is that correct?

Daniel Odier: Yes, if the Spanda is there, and if the family is there before that.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yes, so moving on then.  I just want to get some specifics in here just to ground things a little bit.  If women did want to practice something of a Kashmiri Shaivist nature, we understand that since there are Tantric practices, it is okay to practice as long we understand that the consciousness comes first?   What could a woman do maybe to have a little bit more orgasmic experience leading to a Kashmiri Shaivist practice?  Is there anything she could do?

Daniel Odier: This is really related to the capacity to be one with things and not to be cloned by the usual emotional negativity.   So to give yourself totally without this fear you have to have a great connecting presence to everything.  When you are able to connect to everything, be sure you will be able to connect deeply with a man or another woman. Then you will feel the vibration.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  So it's a deep receptivity and resilience.

Daniel Odier: Yes it has to be trained on every part of the life, not just on sexuality. If drinking a cup of tea starts to be a great adventure, then the kiss will be a great adventure, too.  If drinking a cup a tea not a great adventure then the kiss is just going to be a sad kiss.

Dr. Patti Taylor: That is so beautiful.  I'm going to ask you the same question about men.  Is there anything you could suggest for men to become more fully orgasmic?  What would a Kashmiri Shaivist teaching say to them?

Daniel Odier: Basically, for a man to become more orgasmic he has to become a woman on an emotional level.

Dr. Patti Taylor: They need to embrace their Spanda nature then, right? 

Daniel Odier: Yes.  In one of the Tantras there is beautiful definition of what is virility. And the definition says virility is the capacity to marvel, which is quite incredible.  And men need to find back this capacity to be marveled by the world, by the woman, and that will expand something much larger than that what he knows.

Dr. Patti Taylor: The image I have when you say that, Daniel, is that when I meet a man who is vibrating with his own astonishment at life and turn-on, I get turned on by that man. And I connect with him.  Of course you can’t help it. Of course you feel that attraction. That resonance.

Daniel Odier: Yes, it’s very difficult because you’re alone in that field where you don’t control anything anymore, where you really reach an emotional level which makes you communicate with the woman. For many man it’s very difficult to reach that emotional level.  Most of Men use sexuality not to communicate deeply with the woman. So it’s a revelation for a man to become a woman. A huge revelation.

Dr. Patti Taylor: You have probably been places and done things that are extraordinary, and you are so articulate and poetic. I find that many Kashmiri Shaivists are poetic and passionate people. Could you describe in your own words what a blissful state feels like?

Daniel Odier: There is great emotional freedom, great emotion, and flow.  Nothing presents a danger.  You are completely open to whatever happens.  And this is the basis of all your feelings. Then you are totally open to anything because there is absolutely nothing that should not happen.  Then there is a huge communication with sexuality and you are more and more present.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  How long would it take for someone to learn?

Daniel Odier: You learn to do that by doing the micro-practices, and Tandava, and doing massage.  You don't do anything else. It’s easy.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Would you say that having the lovemaking practices are a good way to learn?

Daniel Odier:  It's part of the whole thing, but if there is too much focus on that and there is not balance with all of the areas where you can reach presence, it does not work, it is a difficult thing. It has to be balanced with the totality of your experience, and if it is not, it doesn't work.

Dr. Patti Taylor: In your book you say that if someone does the micro-practices for a few weeks they would begin to feel the desire in their body, right? And you do emphasize that this bliss needs to use the body to learn it?

Daniel Odier: Yes, absolutely, because when the body feels pleasure it goes back to this pleasure on its own, and you don't have to tell it that it is time for practice.  You will understand it's time for presence, because presence is deeper and much more beautiful and automatic, and then through presence you will find joy and peace and space.

 

Dr. Patti Taylor: We’re coming to and end soon. I would love it if you and I, and all of our listeners could do one of the micro-practices, and pause for a moment to breathe and enter that moment of freedom and bliss for a moment.

 

<PAUSE>

 

Daniel Odier: Yes, wherever you are, you just take off your shoes and socks, and you walk. It could be in the garden, it could be in your apartment, it could be anywhere else. You walk, and try to feel completely with your feet what you touch, and to feel completely the movement of your body, and the space around you, and all the whole body, enfolding into the space, all your feet is touching the ground, all the ground is giving you liberation, because it is not flat, it is alive, it’s particle, it’s atoms, there is a dance in the floor, so you can feel it through your whole being, it goes to your feet, it invades your whole body, so you can unite with the dance that is inside your whole body, with all the self, that is moving all the time.  Suddenly you become one with the flow and that's it: You are one with the flow.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  Thank you, Daniel, for joining us and sharing your wisdom and insight.  Daniel Odier is the author of Desire: the Tantric Path to Awakening, as well as other books, including one on Buddhist and Taoist meditation techniques, some translated by Daniel himself directly from the original language.  You can learn more about Daniel Odier at his website. Danielodier.com.

Thank you again Daniel.  I know I’m vibrating all over just thinking about vibrating all over.

Daniel Odier:  Thank you.  It was very nice.

Dr. Patti Taylor:  You’re so welcome.  Join us next week on the Expanded Lovemaking Show when we talk to Ian Kerner, one of the world's most celebrated sex experts on subjects near and dear to everyone who truly honors desire.  That brings us to the end of our show and thank you for listening.  Please send me your email at [email protected].  For text and transcripts on this show and other shows please visit our website at  www.personallifemedia.com.

This is your host Dr. Patti Taylor, that's all for now.  I remain yours in ever expanding lovemaking and I'll see you next week.

[Music]

Announcer:  Find more great shows like this on personallifemedia.com