Episode 12: Turning On! with Sex, Love, and Attention with Erwan Devon and Alicia Bayer, Founders and Teachers of the Pleasure Course

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In this episode, Dr. Patti interviews Erwan Devon and Alicia Bayer, founders and teachers of the Pleasure Course, a three day immersion into Awareness, Intimacy, and Sensuality. Turn-on is that magic but elusive elixir that puts a spring in your step and leaves you glowing. Many turn to pills and potions, but, since turn-on arises from your integrated body/mind/heart/and spirit, Alicia and Erwan teach us to source the real thing from within ourselves. You'll learn how you'll know when you're turned on and what to do to regain your glow. In tackling topics both profound and refreshingly simple, Erwan and Alicia connect what relaxation, Zen, and attention have to do with sex, love, and belief systems. Listen in, as Erwan and Alicia reveal juicy, unexpected moments from their first date. And, hear Dr. Patti try out Erwan's suggestions for amping up her level of turn-on, right then and there, when she's already feeling wonderful. Clue: it worked way better than anyone could've predicted! Can you guess why Alicia and Erwan teach? Find out all this and more, on this fun and enlightening program, bound to leave you turned on and eagerly planning your next major fun experience.

Transcript

Turning On! with Sex, Love, and Attention: Dr. Patti Talks to Erwan Davon and Alicia Bayer, Founders and Teachers of the Pleasure Course

Announcer:  This program is intended for mature audiences only.

[intro music]

Dr Patti Taylor: Welcome to the Expanded Lovemaking Show. I’m your Host, Dr Patti Taylor, and I teach people how to make love. Today on the show we’re talking living a hotter, juicer and more turned on life.

Our guest are Erwan Davon, and Alicai Bayer, founders and teachers of the Pleasure course.

Erwan D: Chemistry, people are sort of looking for people they have chemistry with, but chemistry is actually something you can create with somebody.

Alicia: I mean the first time we got together after we fell in love at a workshop, and first we’re spending time together our plan was for me to come over and have tea. And then the minute I got there, Erwan felt that I was very interested in more than tea. I was really turned on and I was excited and I wasn’t admitting it because I was a little afraid to and he, you know, within the first 15 minutes we were smooching on the couch..

Dr Patti:  This course immerses you in personal transformation, intimacy and sensuality.. Welcome, Erwan & Alicia.

Alicia: Hi, it’s great to be here,
Erwan: Yeah, wev’e been very excited about this

Erwan and Elisha are teachers in a pioneering realm of pleasure and sensuality. Their also San Francisco based coaches working with people worldwide to maximize their overall pleasure and turn on

I’m pleased to have you here today. I think our listeners would love to know how to live a more turned on life. Turn on, it’s that magic elixir that makes everyone feel special. You know how when you meet someone who’s turned on, they just seem to glow, well who wouldn’t want more of that.

So today, we’ll ask Erwan and Alicia to describe Turn on as they see it, and to tell us some specific ways to rev it up with their partner. They’ll also share how they’ve made an impact with what they teach.

So today we will talk about what is Turn on, how do you light your partners fire and what have you done with some of the people you work with. And lets get going..

What is turn on?

Erwan: That’s a great question Patti. A good place to start I think is a turn is really having the hots, not only for another person or people, but for life itself, really being interested, really being enthusiastic, and you could look at it from a lot of different perspectives. You could look at it from a biological perspective, all the hormones and neuro-transmitters and the blood flow. But probably the best way  to look at is experientially, really being interested in a way that gets your body involved, that gets you juicy, that gets you hot, that gets you excited. And it’s that thing that brings people together in romantic relationships. Iit’s really that catalyst, and sometimes that catalyst; that juiciness that turn on; having the hots; for somebody can go away, a little bit into the relationship, we’ll probably go talk that a little bit more into that a bit later, but the opportunity is to have the hots, have turn on more and more as life goes on and as a relationship goes on which really isn’t the norm but is something that we can all do.

Dr Patti: Well, so yeah.. Turn on is when my pussy gets really wet about something or your cock gets hard, right? And I guess you think that’s just something that happens. So the idea that you can make it happen is kind of a mind bender-- I mean, can turn on really be taught? And learned? I guess that’s the question.

Alicia: Well, people are actually naturally turned on, that’s the natural state of people, so on one hand, you can’t really be taught that, because it’s something that’s natural. And there’s a lot of ways that people can block that or not be in touch with that so they can be taught to bring their attention back to actually what they are feeling and being turned on

Erwan: So you can be really deliberate about being turned on, you can be deliberate about a woman’s pussy being wet and engorged and turned on. People often aren’t, we’re often waiting for it to happen sort of by accident. So absolutely you can be deliberate about, it and you can restore yourself, I think Alicia is making a really good point, that it is  the natural state. It flows naturally and we can be deliberate about restoring ourselves to that interested turned on, juicy, interested in each other, sensual, dynamic, fun place.

Dr Patti: Well I think those are two incredible points because if I speak to most people they will say “You know, yeah I’ve been turned on a lot of times in my life, I remember when…” and then they’ll tell me a number of times, “but my turn on’s been shut down and now I can’t find it anymore..” and often there’s some sadness in there and they seem to feel like not me, or they can’t get it back or I’ve had too much pain or trauma. So what would you recommend for someone who feels like it’s all in the past, or “Gee, that’s very nice that it’s a natural thing, but not me, it’s not here, not now.” I mean, where would someone start to reclaim that natural state?

Erwan: I think the first place somebody would start is with those two view points that we just shared and then we’ll go onto a third one. Once we understand that we can be deliberate about it, that we can address is that we can  study it that we can-  I’ll take a line out of Vic Borocko’s book who many people know is a very famous sensuality researcher, the same way you would approach tennis, you would approach being lit up about somebody about sex, about life. And by confronting it, by being deliberate about it, you will get better about it.. you’ll get better at it. So that’s the first place to start.

The second place again is what Alicia said, understanding that it’s natural healthy normal, there’s nothing wrong there-- at all-- to really really understand that and that all the sense of difficulty or wrongness is conditioning on top. It’s really important to understand that because then you are, you are going with the flow, so to speak. You’re going with the natural flow.

We like to say sometimes you don’t have culture on your side, but you’ve God on your side. And god is actually a very fun turned on orgasmic God, from your view point. And then, once you’ve got those two sort of anchor points in place, you can deliberately start to confront turn on, you can to confront it in your body, you can start to confront in another persons body, you can start to discuss it, you can “sensuality and turn on and making love and how was that sex act? and when would you like to make out again and what do you like and what hasn’t been working for you.” These can become topics of a relationship or even a friendship. You can have a sensual friendship. You can have a friendship we’re you don’t make out, but there’s still convers- it’s still a turned on friendship, it’s still got turn on in it.  But I would say the third step is really confronting the area, the fun area, the pussy, the cock the turn on, the love really, and bringing communication to it; having it be part of your every day talk.

Dr Patti: OK, great, so to really, if you’re not feeling the turn on, what I’m hearing you say then is to start to confront it, to admit it, “Hey I’m not feeling turned on, hey lets talk about it, lets do something about it”.

So what would you, if you were just talking to our listeners out there right now and they’re listening going “Well, hey I’m not feeling really turned on and I would like to feel turned on”. What are some simple suggestions that you might have, for them do right now, starting today in their life- to begin noticing turn on right now, maybe to reclaim that natural sense of energy in their body.

Alicia: One thing that someone can do is surround themselves with things that appeal to their senses, like things that smell really yummy and things that look really pretty or nice, colors they like, smells the like, music or sound that they like; things that are soft and nice to touch. And surround themselves with that. And start to, wake their senses up.

Erwan: It’s funny, because it’s not really complicated, it’s actually very simple if you want to be more turned on in your body, Alicia’s really cutting straight to the heart of it; is turn yourself on, be in your senses. Do things that have you feel your body, you know. Have a comforter on your bed that is velvet or satin or furry. Something that you like. Take yourself on a date, not just once a year when you’re in vacation when you’re in Hawaii, but take yourself on a date everyday, live a date with yourself so that you are turned on and then once you’ve got that and you’re turn on and you’re lit up and you’re feeling good in you’re body and you’re looking forward to going home and smelling those vanilla candles that you have and the furry comforter and you’ve got your favorite music on, you know, Sade, or whatever, and then that’s just naturally going to start to expand, people are going to feel that, people are going to be drawn to that, you’re going to be able to share that with other people so once you sort of handle your own sensuality, really enjoying yourself, very quickly that will manifest in other people coming around.

Patti: Well that’s a great suggestion that you can just start having your turn on right way. Now I notice that you teach the intimacy, the awareness and the sensuality all together in the Pleasure Course. Do they have to go together? Could you teach just a day on it’s own on turn on? Or do you really feel like the awareness, the sensuality and the intimacy really have to go together and be taught as a package deal and really to get the maximum turn on, do you see what I’m saying?

Alicia: We’ve found that for a variety of reasons people have a lot of stuff built up about their turn. By stuff I mean ideas of psychological blockages, or some sort of resistance to it, and we’ve found that without an awareness of that and actually knowing what that is, it’s more challenging to actually get right to feeling turned on. It’s something that doesn’t have to take very long, it can happen in an instance or in a couple of minutes, it’s doesn’t to involve long processing of emotional past. But it’s something that we’ve found that actually enhances turn on.

Patti: Well, what would someone become aware of that might enhance their turn on. Could you give us an example?

A: Yes, they might become aware of feelings about turn on. Like feeling that turn on is not okay, or it’s only okay in certain situations or that there is feeling of shame or guilt around it, or something like that, that was in a blind spot for them. And they’re sitting there wondering why they aren’t feeling anything.

Patti: Well that’s a great example, we’re going to go to a break very soon. Erwan, maybe before the break you can give us a quick example, of something, an awareness that you might have noticed might get in the way, in terms of awareness- might be stopping someone from feeling turned on.

Erwan: Sure, I would say the most important thing to be aware of is as human beings, we have, we could call is sort of our jargon, we have head trips. We have head trips about everything. And we have a lot of head trips about pleasure. Things we picked up from the culture, things we picked up from our family et cetera. When we get aware of our head trips, I think you know, is what Alicia is eluding to, or a resistance to what is normal and natural, then we can have a lot more fun. If people don’t get away of that then, yeah, they could go into the field of sensuality or turn on and start learning all types of techniques and specifics and stuff like that, but it’s going to be like addressing you’re fun, and having an anchor holding you back and that anchor is in a blind spot. So we think, bring awareness, get those blind spots really out in the open and then you can address pleasure directly, more successfully.

Dr Patti, Wow, I love that answer. Now, I’m going to ask you, I know you’ve had a lot of Zen training, substantially, so do you find any irony, or is it just prefect that you’ve emerged from all that training, and substantial amounts of other training too, to wind up teaching people how to have pleasure in their lives.. How adults need to have more pleasure. What’s your take on this?

ErwanI: It’s a funny mix. You know, it’s a really funny mix to bring Being Spirituality, Zen, Transformation, together with Man,/Woman relating together with sensuality and orgasm and getting off.. It’s a really interesting mix, and I think that is, if I can be so bold, where we are pioneering. I think it’s very important to bring those things together, to bring the everyday enjoyment of life together with the spiritual aspect, the transcendent aspect, the pure awareness. And I think that they actually go really well together, the pleasure, or lets say it this way, the awareness being aware of awareness, being spiritual so to speak, really enhances pleasure, in itself is pleasurable and really enhances intimacy, really enhances sex, really enhances orgasm, really enhances man/woman relating.

I find them to be an incredible compliment but rarely are they put together, for basically because, you know how we have personal head trips, we have historical and  cultural, human head trips, resistance to spirituality or God and we’re very materialist, or we’re very into God and spirituality and you know, I lived in a monastery for a while and sort of against sex, which maybe isn’t natural.

Dr Patti: Well, thank you, we’re going to take a break and leave you to contemplate and meditate on that response. We’re talking to Erwan Devon, and Alicia Bayer, of the pleasure course. You can find out more about them at www.pleasurecourse.com and we’ll be right back.

Dr Patti: We’re back, and I’m Dr Patti Taylor, and we’re talking to Erwan Devon, and Alicia Bayer about living a hotter juicier and more turned on life. Before the break we were talking about what is turn on. And now I’d like to turn our attention to “How do you light your partners’ fire? So, how do you light your partners’ fire?

Alicia: You light your partners fire deliberately. Most people either try to light their partners fire, or they hope they’ll light their partners fire by default, or by strategy, and the way to really light your partners fire is by deliberately, finding out what they like, deliberately putting sensual attention on them.

Okay, deliberately, got that. Erwan? Do you want to add to that?

Erwan: Sure. Once you addressing it deliberately, you find out really interesting things. One of the things that you find out this very mystified notion of in love -- every body is looking for in love, it’s a sort of mystical experience, we’re waiting for it to rain down upon us, and occasionally it comes, and it tends to go. One of the things you tend to find out is that “Oh, this is an experience that I can actually create or enhance” so to turn on my partner, to light their fire, to create an “in love” experience with them, from them and towards them, I can do that deliberately, and how I do that-  this is really some of our most exciting research- how I do that is by handling the chemistry between and chemistry—people are always looking for people they have chemistry with, but chemistry is actually something that you can create with somebody and you can create chemistry with someone by approving of them.

So if you’re with somebody and you actively, deliberately approve of them, and you actively, deliberately sensually engage with them and communicate with them and you bring an openness, an open heartedness- if you handle all of those areas, the open heartedness, your view points and prejudices and your chemistry, which is usually the one people feel like they can’t be deliberate about, it sort of happens by accident- if you handle all of those, low and behold, you have the experience of “in love”. It’s very exciting research, because we’ve used with many many couples and we get couples all the time and they want to enhance their relationship and their relationship is going great, or maybe their relationship isn’t going that well. And by addressing these three areas, emotional openness, their mental view point, and the chemistry with the other, they can bring that experience of “in love” to greater and greater and greater heights, so that the relationship doesn’t kind of peter out with the turn on, after the honeymoon period, you know, three weeks, three months or 6 months, but the relationship gets hotter and hotter and hotter and more and more turned on. For example, Alicia and I have been together for almost 5 years now and inevitably, our last sex act is our best sex act. In all respects, more chemistry, more turn on, more orgasm, more intimacy, more union, more love. So again and again we prove that with each other and with the people we work with.

Dr Patti: Well, I have to say just sitting here and as I’ve been every time with you, I can feel the chemistry between you, just emanates form the two of you. So I want to play the devils advocate for a moment, because I totally agree with you, I get totally turned on when someone just showers me with adoration, and compliments, absolutely lights my fire. What if some listener out there might say “Oh sure, but my partner is such a clutz and I go for the bad boy, and I really want some bad boy, or why do I always pick the wrong type who can’t find my pleasure zone and I go for the kind of guy that doesn’t treat me right, you see what I’m saying? Why do I always go for someone who is the wrong type who is not acknowledging me, and there’s a chemistry there.  So what would you say to that person when what they really are wanting is to be turned on by the one they’re with. Is there a turn around job that’s possible here?

Alicia: I can answer that. There is one thing that Erwan brought up a minute ago or two, about approving of the person that you’re with. And what he meant by that is that you have everything to say about how you experience the person that you’re with. You might have your list of the way you want your partner/boyfriend/girlfriend/lover to be- like this, not like this, must look like this and you have your list of preferences. And that’s great, we all have our list of preferences, and we are asserting that you have everything to say about that list and you can actually, actively find the person you’re with to be right.

Dr Patti: so if you can’t be with the one you thought you were supposed to love, love the one with you with.

Erwan: Yes, in a sense, and it’s a very good question Patti and I think it cuts to the heart of a question a lot of people have. And it’s also a very complex question, because we find ourselves in these very interesting scenarios of seemingly not having what we want. And that’s where we have to address about people’s head tricks because one of people’s favorite things is to bitch about not having what they want, so it’s an unsolvable problem until a person really opens up that awareness aspect, until a person really opens that up, really starts to tell the truth about how they have their life configured that they put it together that way, and at some level, they wanted it together that way. Until a person starts to take that kind of responsibility, then that area really isn’t going to open up.  Until a person really handles their head trip and really gets an idea of what they’re head trip and maybe how much they like complaining or why they have it set up a particular way, that area is not going to open up, so it’s a really good example, that questions is a really good example of why you have to bring in the whole awareness of psychology of head trips and ultimately spirituality, in order to have the most effectiveness with pleasure.

Patti: OK, great, moving right through some of the key points of the Pleasure course, I’m sure millions more, they’ll just have to go to the course and take it.

Now lets fast forward a little bit. They have gotten some of your great information and now they are using it on a date. And what might they be using from your sensuality- what are some of the key things they might have picked up on  your sensuality day that they might be putting into practice.  Just some frames, do you are to describe?

Erwan: Well a simple thing for a date is finding out: what does your partner like? You know what I mean? It’s not really brain surgery, having a great date with somebody. People are incredibly confronted by the topic, go into their head trip and their fear and concerns really quickly, and sometimes we don’t do the best job of it as human beings but it’s actually not that complicated. Let’s say you are a guy, lets create a scenario. You’re a guy, you’re taking a woman out that you’re attracted to. Putting together a great date is actually not that complicated. Find out what she likes.

Dr Patti:  You mean like, literally sit down before the date and say “Would you please show me what you like?” I mean, how do you do that?

Erwin: Yeah, ask her what she likes? And her answers will give you a sense of what she’s ready for. Does she talk to you all about sex? Does she talk to you all about what restaurant she wants to go to? Does she talk about massage? Does she talk about one thing and hint another? Is she saying X and you’re feeling Y. Basically, the bottom line is put your attention on the other person, find out what they like, engineer the situation to that and that works for going to the right restaurant, and it works for “Oh, OK, this person likes to be touched here, this person likes to make out in strange environments, Oh that’s a good piece of information, we’re going spend all day in the park. You know, whatever-

Patti: I see Alicia laughing, it looks like Erwan has done this to you more than once.

Alicia: Oh he definitely has. I mean the first time we got together after we fell in love at a workshop, and first we’re spending time together our plan was for me to come over and have tea. And then the minute I got there, Erwan felt that I was very interested in more than tea. I was really turned on and I was excited and I wasn’t admitting it because I was a little afraid to and he, you know, within the first 15 minutes we were smooching on the couch and then he says lets go in the back room, I’m going to play with your pussy and we go in the back room and he played with my pussy and it was amazing, and I felt so- paid attention to.

Patti: Wow, and here you could have just gone out for tea [Laughter]

Erwan: The bottom line is just paying attention. We talk to people a lot and actually do many exercises, some very advanced in the pleasure course exercise around touching, exercise around orgasm, but I really want to give you the heart of it, and the heart of it is paying attention, and if you’re paying attention then you will find that, I will use another Vic Boroco term here, you will find that focal point, you will find that area that the person wants to be paid attention to, and that focal point could be their heart! That focal point could be their body, they want a massage, that focal point could be their clitoris, but if you are paying attention you’ll know and then from there you can come up with some very interesting activities, games, things to do, like go to a restaurant, or, whether it’s sit up by your partners side and like I said to Alicia that first time, “Hey, lets go in the back and I’ll play with your pussy” because that what she was ready for and that was what she was interested in and you know, fortunately for me, in that moment I happen to be paying attention and it all turned out.

Dr Patti: Well, we’re going to go and take a sponsor break on a high note here and give everyone a chance to catch their breath.  We’re talking to Alicia and Erwan of the Pleasure Course and you can find out more about them at www.pleasurecourse.com

We’re Back, and I’m Dr Patti Taylor, and we’re speaking Erwan Davon, and Alicia Bayer about living a hotter, juicier life. We’re talking about lighting your partners’ fire. And I certainly got my fires lit with that last piece of information, several.. Anyway. Like to find out how your work has impacted people’s lives, sounding like your course is a pretty hot and juicy course and you work with people privately and I’m just guessing we can find out some inside tips about how you operate, and what you have to say. Maybe if you can give some examples of some people you’ve worked with.

Alicia: Yes, we had one couple that came to our course an this is something everyone can take with them. It’s really important that you realize that you want to enhance your sensual and sexual life inside your relationship or your relationships to put structure around that, to put yourself in a situation that will actually help you do that and we had a couple who had been together probably 10 and 15 years, somewhere between 10 -15 years and they were on the verge of separating they weren’t doing so well, they couldn’t quite figure out what was going on, but they knew that they wanted it to be  better and back to how it was.. They jumped into the pleasure course, which is our 3-day course, devoted to what people want, particularly in their in their relationships, intimacy, sensuality, general happiness. And they really got, he really got how to pay attention to his wife’s pussy and give her what she wanted. They went on from that course to do our deluxe sensuality certification program which is intensive training in sensuality and orgasm, and today they have one of the most incredible relationships I have ever seen.

Dr Patti: Wow, one of those happy-every-after stories and I’d believe it to, I mean that story, from the people that I interview, you know, because this is my job and I’ve been in this field a long time, this is such a common story and I actually totally get it, we see this so much, these people that do the kind of work you do as work as coaches, do have these outcomes and that’s the most amazing part of this kind of work you do makes such a profound difference. So I’m going to ask another question. Someone who was having a phenomenal due date or sex life and you showed them how to have it even better, someone where it was already great, and what did you teach them? To go from great to even greater? I mean what could you teach someone, this is kind of an interesting one, so what would you tell that person?

I think one of the unique offerings that we would bring to a couple or somebody already in that situation, well first of all, you could always have more, you know, pleasure is limitless, there’s no cap on it,. And how do you have more pleasure is a really key questions for people and then we loop back around to the first part of the pleasure course, the spirituality, the transformation, the awareness, and how you have more pleasure is you have to know how to metabolize the experience. You have to know how to digest the experience. What happens as human being is we have experiences that we sometimes don’t approve of or don’t like and we kind of close down we sort of shut off and you know, we come experientially constipated, to use a kind of fun term. [laughter] and we stop being able to have more so we teach people how to feel fully, feel everything, lean into it, feel fully, when you can do that, you can have more and more pleasure and it translates directly to sex, it’s directly to orgasm, the only reason people feel numb or don’t have more and more increasingly sensation in their bodies, in their genitals while they’re fucking is because there is some experience that they’re not feeling.

Okay, so lets concrete. I’m just feeling this warm yummy feeling in my pussy right now, oh my God, I feel like just coming OK, it’s amazing, you guys, just getting that gaze in your eyes, you look so beautiful, now how do I take that to the next level, I’m feeling everything and now what do I do?

Well, it’s interesting, the way you do that is by fully enjoying that feeling and totally releasing that feeling and totally letting that feeling go and then you’ll just naturally—see one of the great things in life is that you’ll just naturally to more and more pleasure, there’s not something that you need to do, it’s more like relaxing, having, enjoying, letting the feeling go and you will come to a more pleasurable feeling.

So I’m letting that go [laughter]

Erwan: That’s right!

Dr Patti: We all let that go. OOoooh

We can see you’re well practiced.

Oooohhh, I’ve got tingles all over my body, well I guess that worked, well your coaching is excellent. Well we’re running out of time- oh I’m just hot al over my body, WOW, oh oh oh oh. So, one more question for you, why, and I’m going to ask you both, because I’m into equal opportunity. Clearly you are fabulously wealthy, no I’m just kidding, I have no idea- just kind of in a good mood all of a sudden- Why are you teaching, because obviously you’ve made this your life path in this moment, so why? Who wants to go first?

Alicia: Because I love it, because it’s fun, because it gives me so much pleasure and I love it. I want everyone to know how incredible their lives can be!

Dr Patti: And any last words to the world?

Alicia: Have more sex! Have more fund and come visit us.

Thank you. Erwan?

Erwan: So, for about 5 years, I debated back and forth because I had this heavy spiritual background, transformational background and I was teaching courses for groups of 100 and 150 people and I really loved that whole transformational being aside of things, and then I had this whole other life of studying and researching sensuality and coaching some people in that and they were really separate, and I debated, and I naturally had a fair amount of suffering, you know, oh my God, which of these directions should I go in and they seemed contradictory and one day I got that they weren’t contradictory at all and that life with out either aspect wasn’t complete and wasn’t whole and didn’t really feel all that good and the reason I teach is to bring that new vision to people, you know it was really to share that new vision that awareness and spirituality with “Life is a party” you know lets have some fun” and that’s why I do it personally more playmates and I get to make a difference with people.

Dr Patti: Thank you, any final thoughts to pass along to the world at large?

Erwan: Just that by listening to this recording, it’s a good example of  being deliberate about life and pleasure and participating and leaning into it and the more we as human being just lean into it and play and have fun and let go, the more fun it is, and I really just thank you Patti, I love that you’re doing this.

Alicia: Wow Thank you, this has been fabulous.

Dr Patti: Thank you, Erwan and Alicia, of the pleasure course in San Francisco, so you can find out more about Erwan & Alicia at the Pleasurecourse.com who teach the Pleasure Course and you can fid their website at pleasurecourse.com.

So, I invite you listen to some other of our Exapnded Lovemaking shows where we so talk about going for absolute pleasure, such as our shows with Stephen Verdanski, and Rey Federline. That brings us to the end of our show. Thank you so much for listening. Please do send me email at [email protected] . For transcripts of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media network, please visit our website at www.personalmedialife.com. This is your host Dr Patti Taylor. That’s all for now, I remain yours and ever expanding lovemaking, and I will see you, next week.

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