Episode 74 - Expanding Male Potency and Erection (Part Two) with Dr. Gary Schubach

Transcript

Announcer: This program is intended for mature audiences only.

[Music]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Welcome to the Expanded Lovemaking Show. I'm your host, Dr.  Patti Taylor of ExpandedLovemaking.com and I teach you how to make exquisite love. This is part two of a two part series. Today we are talking about expanding Male Potency and Erection. This is an amazing topic, vulnerable and yet full of potential as well. Many men and their helpful partners want to know what they can do to augment the size, quality and duration of their erections and orgasms. So many products and services make promises, who and what is a man supposed to believe? So today we will have that conversation and or course, do so in a way that adds in expanding our consciousness as well.

Gary Schubach: Well the most common ones are failure to achieve an erection sufficient for penetration and then the second one would be  achieving an erection sufficient for penetration, for intercourse and then losing it. One thing Viagra and those kinds of drugs have brought as a practical effect is the ability of older men to be sexual with younger women.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Do a lot of your listeners really learn male multiple orgasm?

Gary Schubach: Not as many as I wish. But, I mean we're still in this fast food society where people want to get it on quickly and move on. So sometimes it's hard to get guys to just relax.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Our guest today, Dr. Gary Schubach. So Gary, welcome back to this show, hi.

Gary Schubach: Hi Patti, it's good to be with you again.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Always good to have you back. So let me tell you a little bit about Gary. Dr. Schubach is an Associate Professor at the Institute for the Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. His view is that, in most cases, so called sexual problems, including erectile dysfunction, are a result of learning deficits rather than a result of psychological and pathological conflicts than can be treated with the current medical models. In other words, given what most people are taught about sexuality in school, by their family and peers, their anxieties and difficulties are absolutely reasonable and understandable.  Dr. Schubach is the founder of the website DoctorG.com . This website sells special treats that Gary has hand selected as a professional sexologist over the years. It has a phenomenal range of articles and a special section devoted to male potency; articles, reviews of herbal products, premature ejaculation, male multiple orgasm, male prostate and G-spot massage and so much more. Dr. Schubach also has a private practice coaching on intimacy and sexual issues by email, personal and over the phone. So I'm really glad that Gary is with us today. I know many men and women would love to hear some straight talk from someone they can trust about what supplements and techniques are worthwhile to practice and to purchase and today we'll do just that. We'll find out what's going on in this world of enhancing and expanding male potency. What are male erectile issues and what are some of the solutions and what does Gary recommend? So, let's get started. What are male erectile issues?

Gary Schubach: Well the most common ones are failure to achieve an erection sufficient for penetration and then the second one would be  achieving an erection sufficient for penetration, for intercourse and then losing it. Those are the two most common ones.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay, so, how common would you say this is? Well let me back up one step, you've studied this extensively as part of getting your doctorate for one thing, and then I guess you're in contact with men all the time as a result of being Dr. G, is that correct?

Gary Schubach: Yes, since I'm also on a number of the professional email list servers on this subject; Medscape Urology, and the sexologists list servers that deal with these subjects, so I get the news on a pretty daily basis, the most up to date news.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Great, so we're really talking to the right person here, great. So how common would you say, in terms of a percentage, are these issues for men?

Gary Schubach: You know that's an interesting question because one of the things I've not been happy with is the way I've felt the pharmaceutical companies have overstated the numbers. Particularly when Viagra came out, they came up with this questionnaire to determine whether someone has erectile dysfunction. ED, that was a whole new diagnosis that came up when Viagra came out and the questions that they asked to determine ED: "Have you ever had failure to achieve an erection? Have you ever had failure to maintain an erection?" And of course they're getting sixty percent yes questions, you wouldn't be a human being if you couldn't answer yes to one of those two questions. So I really feel the problem is being overstated by the  pharmaceutical companies for their benefits. However, at the same time we have new medications blood pressure medications, anti-depression medications, that definitely have effects on mens' ability to get erections. So, those are quite real, those are new since Masters and Johnson. Masters and Johnson maintained ninety-five percent of these problems were anxiety based. I still feel that a majority of the problems are anxiety based. But there is a debate in terms of  what the numbers are and some of this is being fueled by the drug companies who have an interest, a financial interest in this.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow, that's a phenomenal answer and I could pick that apart for quite a while here and yet I'm going to ask you a related question. To what extent do you think that these problems, whether they're anxiety related or medically related, are also age dependent?

Gary Schubach: Probably that too because baby boomers, I'm one, we're living a lot longer than our parents did. My father at my age was less interested in sex and less concerned about whether he was going to have an erection or not.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I mean your hormones go down, your prostate gets  enlarged, I mean, there are just certain biological things that happen as you get older. Can you just talk about that as well, just sort of the age time line?

Gary Schubach: Obviously there are those factors, as you mentioned, hormone levels. General fitness levels too although that's changing you can see that in the advertising. I mean, those snappy commercials for Viagra have got guys in their sixties who look  pretty darn good. I hang out, I've become a gym rat in my older age and men are now interested longer in sex. In fact, one thing Viagra and those kinds of drugs have brought as a practical effect is the ability of older men to be sexual with younger women

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right, so those are also factors and I would say even another factor. We're just kind of  going into some of the causes here is that possible as people age their relationships mature and that might also have an impact. If you haven't kept your skill set up to date or if your relationship is fraying and, you know, there's emotional kind of ties, or getting, you know, in trouble here, that might also, you know, kind of feed back into the anxiety or your fear of just emotional connections are weakening or under stress might also impact your erections.

Gary Schubach: And, you know, some of your theories and some of the earlier things that you wrote in terms of men's erections being a reflection of sort of the sexual appetite of their partners, I think that's still valid and unfortunately by not nurturing their skill set many people have gone into their fifties and sixties and seventies with a mindset that their sexuality days are limited and that doesn't have to be the case at all. I mean, both of us know people into their seventies and eighties who are very sexually active.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I really like the way this conversation is starting out because we are right away acknowledging that a man's erection whether it's healthy or not, is probably going to just be a reflection of  mind, body, heart and spirit. And I think very often, just like so much else in life, what do we want to do? It's human nature. It's buy a pill to fix it and hope the pill will fix because, isn't that the easiest thing to do? I mean I'm probably the same way, who's got time to do a lot of work when you can just go out and buy a pill.

Gary Schubach: In our culture it's certainly become pervasive and it's really interesting again, just watching tv to see the number of commercials and ads for nutritional supplements. It's extensive and there's a lot of money paid in that advertising. We don't have the sales figures like we do with Viagra and those sorts of things that are put out by public corporations but you're talking billions of dollars a year are being spent on these herbal supplements because people want that magic silver bullet.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Nonetheless I think there are times when a pill actually does work. So we are going to take a break and we are going to come back and find out some things you actually can do and we're going to look at the range of those things. So please stay with us, we are talking with Gary Schubach and you can go to his website, DoctorG.com. I'll spell that for you. D-O-C-T-O-R-G dot com. He's got some amazing articles on all kinds of things; prostate massage, masturbation and emotional stuff and some of them are free, some of them you can buy. You can just go and hang out at DoctorG.com, it's really amazing. So do stay with us we will be right back.

[music and promo]

Dr. Patti Taylor: We're back and we're talking about all things men and erections which I'm really happy to do because I've met a lot of men and they think about these things and I don't know how to say this but there's a lot of conflicting information out there and I trust my friend Dr. G. here. I think going to pills is a reasonable first step because maybe sometimes a pill actually can help. So, Gary, what would someone do if they just decided that they wanted to try pills first? I mean, do pills ever work? What would they do? 

Gary Schubach: They do work and I think it's valuable that people understand how the Viagra, Cialis, Levitra line of pills improve the blood flow to the genitals, both for men and for women. That's all that's happening. It was originally discovered in blood pressure medication, in the trails they discovered that men were having erections and it is because the blood flow is being improved to the genitals. Any time you improve the blood flow to the genitals in either men or women you will feel more, you will have more response you'll feel more sensitivity. To be totally honest with you I take Viagra myself. Because of the times I have to use condoms for safe sex in many situations  and the condoms take away from sensation. And so the Viagra, I think, puts back the sensation that I've lost from the condom. But most of all I don't worry about it. It may be a placebo in the sense that I've taken the pill so I just don't worry about it and hence it isn't a problem.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So is there any time that someone would want to use a herbal supplement then instead of getting Viagra if...?

Gary Schubach:  There's an article on my website that there's been some research that shows that some combinations of L-arginine and certain other herbal supplements. There is an article on this subject on my website, are the homeopathic equivalent of the Viagra, do the same thing for those who have some problem with the pharmaceutical compound. Both, of  course, have warnings. Viagra of course carries warnings about potential heart problems. The herbal one carries warnings that it's not appropriate for people who have herpes.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay great, now do you sell any of the herbal products?

Gary Schubach: Not anymore. Frankly we discontinued them because of the public confusion of trademark problems, of people using the names of these things to promote unauthorized generic pharmaceuticals using the names of the ones that we sold so we're not selling herbal supplements anymore.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I think that's quite significant because I often get men emailing me going "What do you think of this herbal supplement and what do you think of that herbal supplement?" And when you get those emails what do you tell them?

Gary Schubach: Oh, I get this all the time where people just plain asking me. Usually I go to the website and one thing that's, personally, a tip off for me is when they don't have the ingredients on it, when they're unwilling to tell the ingredients. A lot of them, when they tell the ingredients it'll be things that we've known traditionally, ginseng and things of that nature.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Yohimbe and horny goat weed.[laughs]

Gary Schubach: Horny goat weed,  yohimbe I really want to put a warning out on that one. Yohimbe can be a urinary irritant.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Uh huh, how about horny goat weed?

Gary Schubach: I think it's pretty innocuous. [laughs]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay.

Gary Schubach: I mean if you look somewhere there may be some counter indications for some people for horny goat weed but the yohimbe is a urinary irritant.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay, so what do people do then? So you like the prescription ones but you don't really see too much in the herbal category then what would you recommend, then? Let's move on then to the premature ejaculaters, what do you recommend for them?

Gary Schubach: Um...

Dr. Patti Taylor: I hate the word first of all because what's premature? You did it when you did it. So first of all, is there a better word for it? It kind of bothers me.

Gary Schubach: Ejaculatory control?

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay.

Gary Schubach: Is a good one. Men can definitely learn, absolutely  men can learn ejaculatory control. In some ways I still think the Masters and Johnson model, what we used to call sensate focus is very valuable. That generally involves a human to human contact where you learn to touch and to genitally touch in ways that where you can control the turn on, you can control the...

Dr. Patti Taylor: Feelings?

Gary Schubach: ...tumescence and men can actually learn. We have an excellent DVD we've sold for years on this subject, it's really beautiful, it's only twenty minutes, guys really like it. It's exercise like yoga exercise, and PC contraction exercise that men can use to learn ejaculatory control.

Dr. Patti Taylor: What's the name of the DVD?

Gary Schubach: It's called "A Lover's Guide to Ejaculatory Control". They've changed the name a few times, I think that's the current one, if you come to the website you'll see and it has a preview. But it's just a beautiful film made in Canada, Montreal and just a wonderful film for men. I learned it, I mean I used to, when I was a younger I used to ejaculate quicker than I wanted to and I remember all the things I would do to keep from ejaculating and I learned over all these years. I have pretty close to perfect ejaculatory control now and I promise you, it's something I learned.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow, well that's amazing that you can learn that. So we'll move on then, how about delayed ejaculation? I want to talk about that because I've had a few lovers with delayed ejaculation. That's when a guy actually can't come and I think that that doesn't get enough discussion. I've seen a lot of men go through a lot of pain through that and I think it could be because they have either watched a lot of porn or they've masturbated a lot and gotten used to their own hand or they've had an enlarged prostate. What do you recommend for those men? I think they go through a lot of pain around that.

Gary Schubach:  A lot of pain and we see this more. This isn't one case where there are pathological reasons why we're seeing more of it.  A good number of the ant-depressants carry that ejaculation and     orgasm retardant for both men and women. Some of these blood pressure medications will cause that too and so this is a real physiological problem. They have been doing some work on the medical side of that. I don't really want to quote those drugs because right now they're drugs that are approved for other purposes so this would be what they call an off-label use so I don't really want to state that. But we are looking at that from a physiological side but I still think the way to approach it is still from the psychological and your teachings. A lot of your teachings have been involved in expanding the whole concept of orgasm that for men, as well as women, this doesn't have to be a Masters and Johnson "tension to over the top to male refractory period". There is a different model that men can adopt of orgasms to get around viewing this as an issue. I mean, we are looking at this from the physiological side too but it can be, it's like one of my teachers used to say, "You can't make an apple into an orange but you can make an apple taste like an orange." You can make it, to you, an apple tastes like an orange because we know what an orange taste like.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So, learning how to spread the orgasmic energy and to really appreciate all of those feelings as they're going through the body and maybe having the orgasmic climaxes that are non-ejaculatory. Tell us about male multiple orgasm, I mean, does that possibly fit in possibly?

Gary Schubach: Absolutely and it is absolutely is an answer for this problem is to expand their concept of orgasm which I've done using your teaching to be frank. Absolutely it expands. I just don't care. I'm not rushing to get to that over the top squirting thing. There's just so much more available than that. That's just not important like it was once in my life. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: So we are going to come back for that in just a moment here. Real cliffhanger here so please stay with us. I want to point out that we have a phenomenal other interview with Dr. G. in episode seven, it's called our "Squirt and Squirting Podcast: Real Female Ejaculation and Female Orgasms" so if you really want to have a great time go get that episode too and also go check out his website at DoctorG,  D-O-C-T-O-R-G dot com. There are so many articles and a lot of them are for free and you sell some downloads, ebooks, ezines, videos, previews, you can have so much fun. So please stay with us and we will be right back. 

[music and promo]

Dr. Patti Taylor: We're back and we're talking about male multiple orgasm. So what have you found that  is the connection between delayed orgasm and  male multiple orgasm or just male multiple orgasm? Do a lot of your listeners really learn  male multiple orgasm?

Gary Schubach: Not as many as I wish. [laughs] But, I mean we're still in this fast food society where people want to get it on quickly and move on. So sometimes it's hard to get guys to just relax.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Do you want to define male multiple orgasm for us?

Gary Schubach: Okay it is orgasm, then of course we have to get into the definition or orgasm which is increased blood pressure and contractions appearing at various intervals. So it is possible to have that by the use of breath, by the use of other techniques for us to have, for a man to have multiple orgasms, for me to have multiple orgasm without ejaculating. It's a more of a full body experience than that kind of focused, genital, over the top thing. It goes through my whole body, but I can go again. In a fairly short period of time I can do it again.

Dr. Patti Taylor: How long did it take for you to learn this?

Gary Schubach: Oh, maybe fifty years total. [laughs]

Dr. Patti Taylor: [laughs]

Gary Schubach: It's an ongoing process, you never stop learning. It was something that a group of us started to explore in the eighties.

Dr. Patti Taylor: You sell Jack Johnston's Male Multiple Orgasm, do you use that technique or do you just find that a lot of your clients love it?

Gary Schubach: Well I did the course myself and again, it's one of those tools that as you say it I'm thinking, "Why don't I use that more?"  I mean, I can remember the practice sessions and they were really good. When you get down to the essence of the lessons, from all the things they tell you they're going to do right down to essence of the lesson itself, it's good stuff. It's a perfect match with that DVD that we have. It's breathing techniques, it's, I think we may talk about this later but it's pressure points on the prostate, on the male prostate,  it's a lot of good stuff in Jack's stuff. I made myself a note to do the course again. It's very good.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Great. Actually we have had Jack Johnston on the show too and you do sell his DVDs so. Well let's talk about male prostate massage. You actually have a few articles and ezines or ebooks or  whatever. What is the advantage to a man of learning male prostate massage or teaching it to his partner?

Gary Schubach: Well there's a couple of things. First thing there's a question of enjoying this experience to it's fullest. The male prostate is the analog of the female g-spot, or as I say it, the g-spot is the female prostate. And so, just as in the woman, stimulation of the male prostate will create a more intense experience, it's an involuntary experience so if a man just can relax, and it's hard particularly if it's done through the anus it's hard for a lot of men to relax that way. You know, homophobia and that kind of thing. I know men who never did that before, including me, who when they got into doing it had experiences that they didn't know possible in terms of  their ejaculation because of course a majority of what's in ejaculate is prostatic fluid not semen. There's a lot more prostatic fluid than is semen. Massage of the prostate can be very very pleasurable and can both cause an involuntary orgasm and can bring up very intense feelings for a man; crying, deep well of feelings as it does for women too.

Dr. Patti Taylor: I'm really glad you have a fair amount of information on that on your website. One thing I've noticed about working with male prostates is it's not necessarily more about quantity, it's more about quality. So for a man who's really new to it, or even for a man who's done it for a while, Man A might just like the rim touched and he will go and see heaven on that much and he might think, you know, that my entire hand is up there and he won't know the difference. And Man B will, you know, three fingers up there and he'll see heaven too but Man C might want something half way in and so there's a huge range and they'll all be equally as happy. And Man D, you know, is not there yet. But there's a huge range and you just have to start where that guy is ready and not judge it at all

Gary Schubach: Absolutely, and physiologically just like with the women, the highest concentration of nerve endings are going to be in the part of the prostate closest to the anal opening. Let me give you a trick of the trade here, here's a secret a little trick of the trade for men who do have trouble with their anuses' being entered.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Oh yes, please do.

Gary Schubach: You can massage the prostate from the other side. The prostate completely surrounds the urethra and you, just like with the woman, you can massage the male prostate from the outside. It's just below the perineum, what we sometimes call the taint, you know "T'ain't balls, t'ain't ass." Right in the middle there and if you feel for it you'll feel it. If you put your finger in that crease, you know, below the perineum you can find the male prostate and message it just as well as you can by going in through the anus .  

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay, so please define the perineum for some of our listeners.

Gary Schubach: Well you know the joke we always make is "The taint, t'ain't balls, t'ain't asshole. It's in the middle."

Dr. Patti Taylor: Somewhere in the middle and  feels like a sort of  a little depression in there and then kind of like a sponge?

Gary Schubach: Yes, there's a slight depression then, particularly as you start messaging the prostate, it will engorge and you can feel it. You can feel it and the man can feel it. The person stimulating and, of course I, in Jack, in his technique, Jack Johnston, in his technique, he teaches you while you're, say your right-handed, you're stimulating with your right hand to have the finger on your left hand on that spot. That's part of what he teaches.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I always find it very easy to find because I'm just down there and the guy's like "Yeah, that's very good," and then they say "Oh my god!" How can you miss that when the guy is like, flipping out in ecstasy, right?

Gary Schubach: Most men and most women don't know about that and don't realize that you can get to the prostate without going through the anus. Or, with the women, while we're talking about it, you can get to the g-spot without going through the upper wall of the vagina.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Really? How do you do that?

Gary Schubach: You press...

Dr. Patti Taylor: Oh, right.

Gary Schubach: You press down on the pubic bone, just above the  pubic bone on the outside. What I learned to do was just put my hand very gently and rest it on that spot and women will tend to start to move against my hand without even realizing what they're doing. It's very subtle but it works. You can absolutely message the G-spot from the outside.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well back to the prostate spot, I, a long time ago, learned to call it the million dollar spot. One interesting use for the prostate spot is you can also press on it if for a guy, or for a woman, if she thinks or he thinks he's going to come really soon too, Because it is the prostate and that will actually stop the ejaculation. 

Gary Schubach: Yeah, you're right. If you put just a firm pressure you can bring him down a little bit.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Right. Now, have you heard that working the prostate is actually good for your health? And also good for fertility?

Gary Schubach: Well, there's a claim, and actually an article on my website that makes that claim, a very good article by Larry Clapp. This has not yet been decided, I mean there's still a debate on this, but the claim is that it helps keep the prostate from becoming rigid and becoming atrophied, you know, it keeps it supple. The other side of that  is there's some argument about that the stimulation of the prostate may cause the release of prostate specific antigens and there's this whole debate about the relationship between prostate specific antigens and the instance of male prostate cancer.  We don't know. This is a huge debate that is going on in medicine so I have to be really careful because a lot of my colleagues are doing prostate message both for pleasure and for health but we're really uncertain right now. We just don't know what's causing higher instances of male prostate, and female prostate cancer, both are going up.

 

Dr. Patti Taylor: I've had clients come to me and say "My doctor told me, or somebody told me to come everyday to reduce my incidence of enlarged prostate and wow, it's working!"

Gary Schubach: I've been doing that, to be honest with you I have BPH, I've been doing that a little more. It's hard, one of the things I'm sad about is that it is hard to find sexually knowledgeable urologist, they receive too little training in medical school, but I've been doing it myself and I talked to a urologist. The point is it relaxes my pelvic floor. Whether I do that with masturbation or whether I do it with aerobic exercise, messaging so that I'm not carrying that tension in my pelvic floor, it seems to help the BPH and make it easier for me to urinate. I mean, I notice after I masturbate I can urinate normally  without any problem. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I'm not expert in life but I have a theory that's called Use it or Lose it. This goes back to my Taoist and Tantric leanings in life which is that the more we become sexually alive and vital, we return to our naturally youthful state of beings so it would make sense to me that the more sexually vital we are that we're just bringing our bodies back into wholeness and perfection. But I certainly couldn't prove that.

Gary Schubach: You know, I joke about what's confusing for me, particularly having done tantra and  similar disciplines you get confused, "Come! Don't come! Come! Don't come!"

Dr. Patti Taylor: [laughs]

Gary Schubach: I joke even that some of my Taoist teachers are sneaking in orgasms in the middle of the night. [laughs]

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I agree with everybody. [laughs]

Gary Schubach: For me it's what feels right, and I don't have that need to ejaculate as an end goal and
times when I just, in my body feels like, I want to come. I want to have an old fashioned, over the top ejaculatory squirting, wall busting orgasm.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Well I've studied a lot of Tantra, I have to tell you that and one thing I know about tantra is there are so many contradictions for every school  there is another school that says the opposite. So one school says "Come," one school says, "Don't come." One says shake, one says be still, one says this one says that, so you can find anything and everything so follow your heart. That's the one I believe in.

Gary Schubach: I'd agree with that completely.

Dr. Patti Taylor: We are running out of time so I would like to know if you have any thoughts that you'd like to share to close out the show?

Gary Schubach: One thing I did want to mention if people are going in the direction of pharmaceuticals. Everyday we get these ads in email and many of them are not reputable, there's a website that is reputable that we recommend for people, it's the number 4impotence.com, Four and then impotence dot com. They're good people, I've known them for a long time. They're very ethical, their products are high quality and at a reasonable price.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay so you'll put these and we will put these in a blog for people. That's it and I have one more question for you. If people are kind of in that point where they are thinking about performance, what would you recommend where they turn their attention?  I mean, I know you do coaching so maybe you can talk about that.

Gary Schubach: I was just going to say they should do one of your workshops. They should call us and again I think this is simply learning. This is learning the art of being fully human and  these are things that can be learned, I mean, you and I did.

Dr. Patti Taylor: And when you coach people this is the kind of coaching that you do for people?

Gary Schubach: Exactly, exactly, and like I said before and you said in the introduction, my perspective is that people are perfect the way they are, that they're not broken. That, yes we can always learn more, it's life long learning but they're not broken, they're perfect just the way they are now.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay, so people can always call, write, email you if they want to explore some aspect of this in more detail? Obviously you're extremely knowledgeable.

Gary Schubach: Yes. I love doing that kind of work, I mean usually, almost always we're looking at a very limited number of sessions to get to a result as opposed to traditional therapy where they're with you for years and you come in every week. That's not what we're trying to do, we're trying to teach people usable skills that they can use in as short a period of time as possible so that they're on their own. That they're empowered and they can create there own sexuality, they're not going to copy mine. 

Dr. Patti Taylor: Okay, great, so an inspiring thought to close out the show for us?

Gary Schubach: Well, again, I think people can make their sexuality into an instrument of their love and caring for another human being. I think that's the thought I like to hold, that their sexuality be a representation of our love and caring for another human being.

Dr. Patti Taylor: Wow. Thank you so much. That is so beautiful, sometimes the simplest things are the most beautiful. Thank you so much, Gary.

Gary Schubach: Thank you Patti.

Dr. Patti Taylor: So, this does close out our show. Before I go I'm just going to make one request; please do me a favor and go to our survey at survey.personallifemedia.com  and take our little survey so we can tell our advertisers who you are and then they know how to support us in doing their advertising. So thank you so much, survey.personallifemedia.com. Please send me email at [email protected] Thank you so much for listening. For text and transcripts of this show and other shows, please go to  personallifemedia.com You can also go get our blog link there as well and the Expanded Lovemaking Show. Also, please visit me, Dr. Patti Taylor at ExpandedLovemaking,com where you can join my mailing list and find out more about my products and services and events. This is  Dr. Patti Taylor, that's all for now. I remain yours in ever expanding lovemaking and I'll see you next week!