Episode 9: "3 Men Tell Us What Turns Them ON" with Relationship Experts Travis Decker, Neo Young and Andrew Bancroft
Travis Decker, Neo Young and Andrew Bancroft – “3 Men Tell Us What Turns Them ON”
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Alissa Kriteman: Welcome to Just for Women: Dating Relationships and Sex. I'm your host, Alissa Kriteman. This show is dedicated to bringing you the juiciest, most useful information available today to help you have the love, the life, the experiences you deeply desire to have. I'm really excited today. We have not one, not two, but three smart, sexy, and savvy relationship experts, men who are going to give us the real deal on what we need to know about men that our fathers, our friends, our brothers, our lovers might be too shy to tell us.
Neo: What inspires me in a woman or women in general is someone who is in her feminine flow.
Andrew: Yeah, I'm a man, I like a smile. Maybe that's the quickest way of saying what these guys have said. I like when people are happy, and when someone's joyful and not putting on a face.
Alissa: In this show, we'll discuss the real deal on dating, lovership, and partnership. The real deal on attraction, seduction, and intimacy. And the real deal on sex. Today we're going to learn about what attracts and repels men to women, what intimacy and being intimate means for a man, what really turns a man on, and topics we might be too afraid to discuss, and we'll just get to them later.
Gentlemen, welcome to the show. I have Andrew Bancroft, Neo, whose last name I don't know, and Travis Decker of AuthenticSF who you've heard before on our show. Welcome gentlemen.
Let me introduce you to our panel of modern men. Neo Young has a BA in Psychobiology and Premed from Swarthmore College. He's a certified life coach from the Coaches Training Institute. He's an MLP Master Practitioner, and is certified in hypnosis, reiki, Swedish massage, and is a third level huna. Neo is the creator of The Complete Lover, a body of knowledge that teaches men every aspect of how to attract, connect with, pleasure, and commune with women. Neo, for me, is one of the most vibrant men I have ever met in my life. He's just this explosion of love, happiness, joy, and depth and insight, so Neo thank you for being on the show today.
Andrew Bancroft is a performer, writer, and comedian, who has applied his professional improvisational genius to relationship coaching and man-woman dynamics. He is actively exploring the modern dating scene.
Travis Decker, we welcome him back. Travis Decker leads a powerful course called The Authentic Man Program. He is a personal coach and co-founder of AuthenticSF, an organization that offers personal transformational courses for men and women wanting more authentic, flourishing relationships. Welcome back Travis. You're amazing and I'm so glad to have you back. The first interviews we did about the three kinds of men to avoid, the creepy, the slimy, and the closed, were just brilliant. And so I'm just so glad to have you back, and your insight, and Neo, and Andrew, so let's get started, shall we?
One of the first questions I want to ask is: what inspires you about a woman? And who is the first woman you thought of when I just asked that question?
Travis Decker: What inspires me in a woman? I have different favorites. But I think women not holding back in what they want and really receiving things when it lights them up. That's what inspires me most. Seeing a woman who lights up and really enjoys her life. Who do I think of? I think I thought of Andrew.
Andrew Bancroft: Thanks!
Travis: He just lights the room up. [laughs] I see a woman who inspires me most would be, well I think of my fiance, Kendra. Not just because it's the right answer, but because she is both totally in her own power, says what she really thinks, has strong convictions, and is totally feminine and flowing and artistic and expressive and lights up when I give her what she wants.
Alissa: Nice, I like that. So a woman who's in her power can receive and knows what she wants, that inspires you. Okay. Neo?
Neo: So what inspires me in a woman or women in general is someone who is in her feminine flow and it's really some more to what Travis was saying. A woman who is truly dancing with the energy that is life, that she is vibrance, that she is ecstasy, she is that surrender and beauty that embodies the fragrance of the rose when I smell it. A physical embodiment of the goddess. I think we all have ideas and semblances of what that would look like, feel like, be like, and I think the harder point is to have a woman unconsciously express that because that's who she is. And that's what I love, a woman who is just being that feminine flow.
Alissa: Okay, this is great. A woman embodying her feminine flow. Now, what does that look like in the real world, and how does a woman get there? Andrew?
Andrew: Whoa, I want the first question. Feminine flow? What does that look like? Well, back to the first question, my response I think might be a little more simple. What inspires me about women is almost just the innate fact that they're female. It's a very natural... “Who is this? This person is different than I am in some really fundamental ways, and it's fascinating. It's based on that spark is already there because it's in-ground in our DNA or our minds and our history as a species anyway to be like, wow, women, men. Women are inspiring.
Alissa: [laughing] So it doesn't take much, ladies!
Alissa: He's easy. Andrew's easy.
Andrew: Yeah, and then I like a smile. Maybe that's the quickest way of saying what these guys kind of said. I like it when people are happy and when someone's joyful and not putting on a face. Not like somebody has to be happy all the time, but when people are experiencing joy and doing what they need to do in their lives to find that happiness, it's very attractive. You want to be around joy, experience joy with people.
Alissa: You make an interesting point though. You said that she's authentic in about how she's feeling. Which isn't always joy.
Andrew: Totally. Yeah, that's totally true.
Alissa: So it's all right for a woman to feel exactly how she's feeling, and you're not going to shy away and what you're saying you actually appreciate that?
Andrew: Yeah, like I said before. I think it's already in her favor for a straight male that she's female, and that this is being herself. That's a huge bonus.
Alissa: Okay, Neo.
Neo: So what you were saying about the emotions. So it's a very fine line for me, because we all have access to a range of emotions, and yet I believe that a woman worthy of my worship... It's like I have developed myself a level of consciousness and being that I am today, and I would love a woman who could match that.
Which means that I can contain any and all of her emotions to the degree that she expresses them, and if it's a pattern to which she is not fully consciously directing her emotions on too regular a basis, then that becomes a turn-off. I want to be consciously creating with this goddess in a way that we consciously manifest more of what we want together. I want a partnership that would be to that depth.
And if she is expressing the chaotic aspect of feminism, of femininity, then that may or may not be supportive of what I want to create and share and serve in the world because I would have to be holding her space all the time rather than serving the world.
Alissa: Got it. So basically what you're talking about is a very high-level relationship where a woman is completely responsible for her emotions. Yes, she can be chaotic, but she has to be responsible for it. And she can experience her range of emotions, but she's got to be aware enough to take responsibility for them. And what you're talking about and why you're here is because you are a man who's done a ton of work and holds a very high-level place for a woman to step into.
So let's get back to – and I love the fact that you said goddess, so-- I think that there's woman and then, yeah, there's goddess. There's a kind of flavor to goddess that you were alluding to, one being a woman who's in control of her emotions.
So let's get back to this embodiment. So what else does that look like? Because it sounds to me like it would be very fun and challenging and exciting to be in a relationship with you. So, Travis?
Travis: Well I think it's tricky. I get that for women, they're like, “Wait, do you want me to be expressive or not? Do you want me to--”
It's tough because most women that we're really drawn to, they're going to have a lot of emotion to express and they can't really hide it. Most women, the more they try to hide it, the more we feel it. So, more than a lot of women I've worked with as clients, they really have no idea how painful it is when they're closing down, when they're angry and they're trying not to show it. It's like, “Girl, everybody in the room [laughs] knew anyway, and so there's no hiding.
But at the same time, we don't want you to be chaotic and we want you to be responsible.” So I get that it's really complex or confusing for women, like, “Okay, so what is this goddess business? What exactly do you want?”
And I think the biggest thing that is a turn-off for me is when she's not making anything wrong. When I talk about being responsible, that she's not acting like there's something wrong or someone is wrong. She's angry or she's sad or she's afraid or she's happy or she's turned on, and not because, not blaming anything other than just owning that she's feeling that way fully. All the sudden it lights up the room, even anger, even fear. It moves a man. It has me feel my body more, when it's actually expressed in an open way as opposed to a contracted, short, pins-and-needles kind of a way.
Now and then the last thing I'll say, I think that – this is for women, but if any guys are sneaking in listening to the women's stuff, I also say that it's totally on us to be totally loving with a woman wherever she's at. And that a high-quality man will actually invite a woman to express more, have her feel safe enough to express more openly, even more than she knew how to. So I'm not just putting it all on the women either.
Alissa: Yeah, thank you for saying that. I feel as though it really is a co-creation, and women do have a tendency to hold back. We're supposed to be the nurturers, it's not our right to feel our emotions. But this whole show and the people I interview are designed to bust open these older ways of being, dating, relating which is exactly why I wanted your perspective on this show. Because you really are giving license to men and women, this is what you teach all the time. Emotions are okay, let's be responsible for them. Men, hold space for them. Women, have them. Really be authentic, which is at the core of what you do.
Travis: I think a key piece for you women listening: why should you care about trying to figure out how to express your emotions with men at all? That, aside from your own piece of mind, I just hope that you get that we're not just trying to be poetic here. We're saying that we're irresistibly drawn to a woman when she's fully expressed.
I think a woman that's in her sixties who's just so unapologetically who she is and expresses it fully and compassionately. It's dynamic, it's radiant, and it just draws my attention. Even if I don't know who she is. I'm talking to somebody else. I notice. I kept having my attention magnetically drawn over her, it's that much of a pull. Even if I'm on a date with another woman and I'm going to get in trouble for looking over there, it's difficult not to. It actually pulls our attention over to a woman who's just herself.
Alissa: And you're not talking about a woman who's actively expressing her anger. There's a nuance to what you're saying.
Travis: There's a momentum. She may have, hopefully she has safe places where she expresses all of her emotions such that they all flow more naturally. For any of us, if we've been penning up what we really think or what we really feel or what we really want, when you dam something up, what happens? The water level starts to rise. When you first start opening that sucker up there may be some backlog.
And that's a part of personal growth, is to work through that. But eventually, when she has a healthier relationship to her experiences, to her desires, and to her emotions, there's just a glow. There's a glow to a woman who may not be a bikini-model-looking woman, but she just lights up. And that's what really draws us.
Alissa: That's sexy. You're attracted to a woman who's lit up and in charge of her emotions. Ladies, don't get freaked out if you're not really tracking this conversation, because we're going to do a lot of interviews about this kind of embodiment and being right with our emotions and doing exercises to notice our emotions and all kinds of processes to really get tapped in here. Because you're actually saying that those are the keys to the kingdom, that is one of the major attractors of a man is a woman who is right in her own self, in whatever's coming up for her, that she's taking responsibility for it. And it's magnetic.
I love that. You don't have anything else to do but look over there when a woman is really being authentic and sharing herself, and we are just not trained to do that.
Travis: And not that I'm saying, so you have to go out a laugh a lot. And [gasps] gasp a lot or make a lot of noise or a lot of expression. When we work with men, it's like a black belt. A black belt rarely gets in a fight. He carries himself such that he never has to. Same with a woman. Not that I'm saying she has to be expressing random emotions every time she's around men. Even the fact that she has access to what she's really feeling and is really in her body in that way, she just glows.
Alissa: Neo, did you want to add something about why it's important for a woman to own her emotions?
Neo: First, I'd actually love to continue the comment that Travis making because the metaphor that I like to make is that when a woman isn't fully self-expressed with her emotions, it's like she has this well-spring of flow of water and yet all that's coming out is a drop or two. That's the holding back. And yes the first step is to have that unabashed expressions, you're opening the channel, the fuel for which the water to flow through.
And then the next step which I what I really appreciate in a woman who has done the work is to continually open up that channel. She has endless access through the universe of that channel. And yet, that channel can sometimes get funneled in a place that isn't serving her as much, because of a pattern that she has wrung. I see a woman, a goddess, that opens herself up and continually expands the level of fuel, per se, the level of energy that she has, and continually works on carving the channel through which she consciously creates in sharing with the world.
The fuel needs to be directed in a way that she was embodying her highest aspect of herself, that's who she would chose, say, 75% of the time. None of us are perfect, I'm not perfect. But I would like to play that game with a goddess.
And also, as a woman continues to express that uninhibited emotion, her orgasmic potential increases. Because that's what an orgasm is, it's building up that energetic potential and then letting that flow through a body. So you definitely want to be self-expressed in your emotions because it allows you expand and surrender into the potential pleasure that is within every woman's body.
Alissa: Whoa, okay. Now we're getting to something here. You're actually telling us that there's a direct link between us being authentic about our emotions and our ability to have deeper and deeper levels of orgasm. Interesting.
Neo: When we're interacting with that woman, even non-verbally just across the room, it's as if we're getting a read of what she's like in bed. The degree to which she's in her body and she has that glow that comes from her expressiveness and her ability to receive and really want what she wants... [sighs] Really enjoy it. That is totally indicative, even unconsciously, to a more primitive part of our brain, ooo, that means she's going to being fun.
Alissa: Andrew, did you want to add something?
Andrew: I was just thinking that for people who aren't used to hearing a lot of this kind of terminology it might help to even simplify it a little more down to words we've heard \since we were kids. And to me, I think to big words are “honesty” and “confidence,” and those come out to me when these guys describing how to manifest that in your body and how-- I think a lot of it has to do with being honest to yourself about how you're feeling and being honest to the person that you're with about how you're feeling. I think that comes out and gives birth to some of these deeper avenues these guys were talking about.
It also gives birth to a confidence in you and who you are and just being who you are. And that confidence, I think, is really attractive, whoever's got it.
Alissa: And fun in bed. Wow, okay. With that, we're going to take a break to support our sponsors. This is Alissa Kriteman. I'm your host of Just for Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. I'm here with relationship experts and hot, sexy, savvy men, Decker, Neo, and Andrew. And we'll be right back.
Alissa: Welcome back, this is Alissa Kriteman, your host of Just For Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. We're here with Andrew Bancroft, Neo Young, and Travis Decker, talking about the real deal when it comes to dating, relationships, and sex.
So before the break, we were talking about the ways a woman cvan ber effective with a man, draw him in magnetically by really being authentic with what she's feeling and how that's actually access to deeper and deeper levels of orgasm, which we'll talk about later. But for now, we're going to talk about relationship killers. Who wants to take it?
Travis What kills relationships?
Alissa: What kills relationships!
Travis: Well, I'll tell you what's killed my relationships. [laughs] Well, first of all, I'm – I don't know about you guys – but I am fiercely loyal. Once I'm in a partnership, not just dating, once I'm in a partnership it takes something pretty massive for me to break that. I think a lot of guys are like that. Maybe shy of commitment initially, and once we're in and...
For me, probably the most intense partnership I was ever in that ended by me wanting it to end was... The thing that broke us was us in India. WE were traveling in India. She gets upset and is accusing me of something but not, trying to hide that she is. I'm trying, I'm, “Hey, are you doing that thing where you accuse me?” “No, I'm not!” We're getting into our thing, we're getting into our fight. And finally she storms out.
This is the key piece. We're in the middle of nowhere in India, and in Rajastan, some tough characters up there. So I'm running after her, and she knows I have to because it's dangerous out there. So she's got the power where she's going to throw a fit, run out, and when I try to stop her – actually, I did stop her physically, like, “No, we'll do whatever you want to do. I'm not going to have you running out here; it's dangerous.”
She starts screaming, “Get off of me! Don't tell me what to do!” It was bad. And I was like, “I'm not going to let this woman that I love run out at night in these streets. I'm going to end up in some Indian jail. [laughs] She's screaming at the top of her lungs, and I'm going to end up in jail.”
I love how expressive she was, and I had more deeply intimate and downright tantric, just world-rocking experiences with her. And that was a point where I was like, “Whoa, when it comes down to it, when I put my foot down, I'm like, 'No, you're not going out here. You're freaked out. I want you to get your ass back in the restaurant now,' and she won't.” That was, something snapped. Later, I looked back and was like, there's a part of me that knows I can't ever have kids with her, if she won't trust me when she's really freaked out, really upset, she doesn't trust me. There's something, I can't build a partnership with her. And that's really what ended it.
This was long before the time we were talking about marriage or kids, either. Something in me got that. That killed it.
Alissa: Yeah, and that is the emotional sobriety I think we were talking about earlier. She was angry about something, but she didn't have the wherewithal to grab herself even for her own safety, regardless of whether you were going to come back. She didn't have enough love for herself to stop and check herself. So you're saying that kind of disconnect from her own feelings is so scary to you that that would just have you not want to continue.
Travis: Kind of, and, honestly, our dynamic at that point was such that she could let go really fully and I hadn't. That was actually part of our dance. But the fact that she didn't trust me. That she didn't trust me to that degree, that's what killed it. Her not trusting me when it really counted. That's what ended it. She could've flipped out even worse, and I still would've been in, but her lack of trust for me, that really hurt.
Alissa: And she wasn't trusting you to what?
Travis: Get back to the restaurant, to follow me back to the restaurant. At that moment, you know how it is when you're in a fight, this is your worst enemy. I'm like, “Yeah, we're both pissed, and I love you, and I want your ass back in the restaurant now.” which she heard that as her attacking her, of course. I'm not saying I was perfect, and even if I'm not being perfect, when I put my foot down, I want a woman that I'm going to be with to turst me and follow me, and she wouldn't.
Alissa: Interesting. Trust, trust, trust. Don't break it.
Neo, relationship killers?
Neo: It's really interesting as you asked this question, because one of the things that I don't want the woman to listen for is absolute don'ts. There's already so many parameters that society gives us, and there are so many things that women are trying to be in control of, to supposedly be the perfect woman, that it actually defeats the whole purpose. I would rather see women get out of a relationship that's no longer right for them than to stay in one and not be themselves. I think it's...
Have relationships be killed if it's not right. Don't trust the man who's not trustworthy. And I think the mistake that men and women make the most is not allowing all of themselves to be seen. To show the shadows that they're most afraid that they won't be loved for and play with each other on the facade of perfection that none of us are anyways. And then never getting the love that they truly want or desire because they never show that side to be loved.
So I see the thing is that people do not play full on themselves as the most tragic thing, and for me, I was in a five-and-a-half year relationship, and what quote-unquote ended it was actually the two of us looking into each other's eyes and both saying, “You know, we are no longer serving each other.” And that was it. We were that clear, because when we were together at that point, we were bringing out each other's, on some level, worst to shine light on .I see that as enlightening. Shadows do not exist where light shines. So we brought out each other's shadows, and we had to have the foundation of enough love to actually work through all those shadow points.
But through all of it, to just play full-on. And I'm really about, as soon as I can, a woman that I choose to be with, I'm willing to die for her. So it's like, I play at that level. So a woman who I can choose to play with, then she reciprocates that, or she can choose me on a level where she's wiling to have my kid. Doesn't even mean that we have to, but that, even if we're only together for a night, for a week, for a month, that that's the level that I choose to play at.
So if the relationship ends because we speak so much truth that we each find out that further down the road, instead of experiencing three years of mediocrity, I can perhaps find out in a week whether or not we're a fit, and we can have an explosive, passionate, outrageous, exciting relationship for that week, that would serve both of us more in that short amount of time than if we were together for three years.
So I would really encourage women to continue to be yourself. Express and share the points that you don't think you'll be loved for. Same goes for the men. And from that point, you can find out earlier whether or not you're a fit, and to continue playing.
Alissa: You raise two really good points. One is the concept of not being attached and to just fully bring yourself. If the relationship explodes, great, let it explode, but at least you've brought your full self, and you can really see what's going on here.
The other thing you brought up, and Decker, you did as well, this thing about commitment. Neo, you're like, “I will die for my woman!” Decker, you're like, “I'm completely committed when I'm in a relationship.” So let's talk about that for a second.
I think most women, and I think it's in the popular culture, that men are afraid of the C-word. But you guys are quite the opposite, so what inspires you to be committed to a woman? Because it doesn't sound like you have any qualms at all, but again, deep authenticity and... Andrew, love, are you getting... [laughs] Andrew's getting a little-- Tell me, Andrew. Commitment. What do you got?
Andrew: I was listening to them to, and I was like, “Whoa, that's pretty, that's intense.” No, I think that a lot of guys do have questions about commitment, definitely, and I'm listening to what, trying to think of what breaks a relationship, what that deal-breaker is. I don't think there is any absolute yes or no, or don't or do.
Sometimes I just think it's really challenging to two humans to commit themselves to a monogamous, if that's what we're talking about, relationship. And sometimes these variables of time, and questioning, and self-exploration, become big enough variables to become that deal-breaker. I certainly feel up in the air a lot of the time at this time in my life, and I don't know if there's any time when it's really nailed for you, that you know, this is what I know I need for commitment, and this is what happens.
One thing I do feel pretty certain of, because of all the questioning and because of all the things that go on in our minds and our hearts over a course of time, if you expect to spend a long period of time with someone, adaptivity and change and flexibility have got to work in some way. Once again, I think one of the keys there is honesty and knowing where that other person stands and being honest whit what you need and what you want. Even then, it's a challenge. We're a strange group of monkeys [laughs] and I don't know exactly what it is.
Balance is another one that becomes tricky when... A lot of times in relationships it seems like there's this balance where there's often somebody who's more into that C-word, more into commitment than the other person, and that throws things into a tricky, tricky mind-fuck. And then, when that's balanced out a little more and people see eye-to-eye and are like, “Whoa, we're both kind of as into this as the next person is,” it's a really good feeling. I can't claim to know how to achieve that, but it's a good thing to try to be aware of.
Alissa: Do you have an example of a relationship that you were in where you just got to the point where you were like, “You know what? Done.”
Andrew: Yeah, I guess similar to Decker's situation, if they don't want to go into the restaurant I want them to go into, that's really... [laughs]
Alissa: No, this...
Travis: Any time, any time.
Andrew: And any time in Indian prison. When I end up in an Indian prison, I'm like, “Fuck this! Last straw!”
Alissa: No, this is really interesting. This is really interesting. Because we have Andrew, who is definitely wishy-washy about the commitment, so I'm definitely getting that from you. And yet here's Neo, who's going to die for a woman, and Decker, who's pretty much going to commit. I guess my question still stands, what inspires that.
Andrew: So, commitment. I want to clear something up. Commitment is a very loaded word, because I think for a lot of men, freedom above all else is really important. So to feel bounded on any level feels unself-expressed. So commitment in the way where he is somehow feeling bounded to a woman does not feel free and is not going to expand the relationship. Versus choosing each other consciously.
See, I think all of us has the psychological point where we want some guarantee that the person is going to be there for us. And yet, that guarantee can never be truly given in an external commitment. It is only truly chosen between two people. So when I choose to die for a woman, I am not necessarily committing to her, and yet, in my mind I know that I will risk my life for her.
It's a really interesting twist in words for me, or perhaps for the audience, but it's a very fine line. In the moment, I think it's more powerful for me to choose my woman over and over again, day by day, fresh, than to say, “Oh yeah, irregardless of what happens, even if our path diverges, even if we're no longer building towards the same dream and purpose and service for the world, that I'm going to be with you.” That's not true.
So on some level, you could say that my love is conditional, but yet it is conditional in a way that I know what I'm creating toward, I am so clear about the type of woman that I want to be with and want to create with that, when she is that, there are not strict battles, like, “Oh my God, you just stepped outside the lines!” It's not like that. Because my love for my woman is deep enough to contain so much, and yet it is not a container that is limited to say, “Oh yeah, we're going to be together for ten years.” Because nobody can say that. Nobody knows whether you will be served even in the next week together.
Alissa: Well, I think people think that, they unconsciously go into a relationship not saying that, and then that's where all the breakdown happens and why the divorce rate is at what? Seventy-five percent, nowadays. Which brings up an interesting concept called lovership. My God, I have so many questions.
So, let's couch lovership for a second, because I've been talking to people and I'm hearing this phrase come up again and again. Lovership being the kind of relating that happens in between dating and partnership, and it sounds like that's what you're saying. So one of my burning questions is: how do women help men feel free inside of a commitment? If that's what you're saying men are grappling with, this concept of freedom.
Travis: For me, it's a big difference between commitment and my willingness to die for a woman. Actually it's funny you bring that up, Neo, because I actually got in a situation with a lover where – it's a long story – but I'd encouraged her to go out into the ocean in a really precarious place on an island, Kauai. Sure enough, I'd been out there for like 45 minutes, perfect conditions, convince her to go out, and she'd been scared the whole trip.
We go out, and – I'm not kidding you – within five minutes, it's almost too supernatural... A huge rip-tide just grabbed us. The whole sandbank disappeared and we were pulled out to sea. And she actually was trusting me at this point, and this is what killed me. She was trusting me enough to go out in the water, she was terrified but she trusted me. So she goes out. Even as we get pulled out to sea, and I think--
I know. This is actually a sensitive, this is still sensitive for me. I was already positive that we were dead. I don't know why. I just freaked out. I never had a wave just pull us like that. She still was trusting me, like five minutes of me swimming against the break trying to push her over, she was finally like, “I'm not having fun anymore.” She just didn't even realize.
And then she saw the look on my face and realized that we were in trouble. But that's how much she trusted me, so all I wanted to do was get her out. I was already positive that I was going to drown, every muscle was just pushing her out. When she finally got over the break and out, I just sank. And every time she would go over, I would stay afloat just to see her on shore and, sure enough, it would pull her back, pull her back. Finally she got out, and then I was feeling peaceful and I was happy to die. I was exhausted and sank. And that's the last thing I remember. The next thing I know, people are pulling me off, like out of the sand and heaving water out of me.
Alissa: Wow, so you literally almost died?
Travis: I literally did. So she got it. She told me later, it was an idea for her that I would die for her, it was a different thing for her to get that [xx]... For me, that's something, that happens pretty automatic. If I'm with her, and it comes down to it, I'm going down before she is.
Andrew: Sorry to butt in, I think it's a male fantasy and probably always has been, to be in a situation where you get to save an attractive woman. I'm sorry. I've had the dream. I've thought about it. [laughs] I see someone I have a crush on, I'm like, “How can I get in a situation where she's in a burning building?” [laughs]
Alissa: This is why we have Andrew.
Andrew: But I think it's true. I don't know.
Alissa: No, it does. It's like David Data[?]. David Data talks about that all the time, that men are fascinated with death.
Andrew: But for me, that, I give that away automatically. Once I'm with her, it's like, “Okay, you're the one that I die for.” Commitment, where I'm just giving it over to a partnership, a relationship, is... The first time I felt that, where I really got it, was when I realized that she wanted me to be happy as much as I wanted her to be happy. I don't know if I can understate that enough.
It's one thing for me to just love to give to her, to love to be the guy who has her lit up and happy in her life. But when I got that she wanted me to be happy as deeply as I wanted her. In fact, she wanted me to be happy as much as she wanted herself to be happy. That level of actually giving a shit about me hit me in a way I never felt before.
Alissa: What would you say to women who are either dating or in relationships where they honestly cannot say that about their partner?
Andrew: You know, I can get it. I can get, it's like, “I can't trust him. My mom had this happen. My grandma...” I think women have inherited lots of good reasons not to fully trust a guy. “If I just want everything for him, he's just going to take it for granted and use me.” And like Neo said, that might be true. So I'm not saying women, want your man's happiness as much as your own. But trust yourself.
And if you're just not trusting him from something that's not about him, you may be selling yourself and him really short, and there may be a possibility for you to let go and trust and love more deeply than you ever knew was possible. That kind of devotion and trust is what will inspires a guy, even a guy who is somewhat stingy or checked out or not paying attention to his woman, that will wake him the hell up, when a woman is that surrendered over. And if it doesn't wake him up, then move on.
Alissa: You heard it: trust, devotion, surrender. Those are the keys to inspire commitment.
We are going to take another break to support our sponsors. My name is Alissa Kriteman, your host of Just for Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. Getting the real deal with relationship experts Neo Young, Travis Decker, and Andrew Bancroft.
We'll be right back.
Welcome back from the break. I'm your host Alissa Kriteman. This is Just for Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. I'm here with three fantastic relationship experts and we're having a very interesting conversation about what inspires a man to commit. We're delineated that it's surrender, trust, and devotion,.
Now we're going to talk about a new phrase that's being kicked around in the modern dating scene. It's called lovership, and I've talked to happiness expert Amy Coget about this as well. Lovership is a term that's been coined. It's the bridge between dating and partnership. So you've gone on a couple of dates, you're at the point where you're thinking, “Okay, I'd like to be more intimate with this man. I'd like to have a sexual relationship with this man. But I'm not ready to move into a lifetime commitment or move in with him.” There's a whole world available. People are talking more and more about, and it's called lovership.
Have you guys heard about this? What do you think about it? What've you got? Who wants to go first? Andrew?
Andrew: I have heard about it. Actually, I don't know if I've heard that term before. Sounded like p-funk. But yeah, lovership. I think a lot of guys would... It sounds like non-monogamous relationship.
Alissa: It sounds like a non-monogamous relationship? Yeah, it sounds like something that is totally creative, that finally gets a man and a woman talking about what they want to create, what kind of sex they want to have, what kind of exploration they want to have, experiences. To me, it sounds like a brilliant way to move from dating to partnership.
Andrew: Lovership has the Alissa Kriteman stamp of approval. [laughs] I think one thing about it, I think people in general want to be intimate with somebody they think is really... Unless they're really insecure with themselves and have trouble getting intimate on any level and just want one night stands one after the other. I think, yeah, people want to be with somebody that they're actually interested in and want to talk to and want to get to know.
And then, when that commitment word comes up, sometimes it's just easier to hold off and ride it out a little bit, and be like, “Oh, you know. Giving up my experiences with other people is a barrier right now, so let's not go that far.”
But I think lovership, one of the challenges it faces is both people staying on the same page for an extended period of time. My experience with that, seeing other people, is that there's a honeymoon period and then there's somebody wanting more and somebody not wanting more, or it may be just that this is a negative view of it. Maybe that's because those experiences lacked honesty, more communication, but I think it's a challenging thing to foster, to keep up for a long time.
Alissa: I'm glad you said that, because the cornerstone of lovership as this is being developed is knowing what your passions are, on-goingly be in touch with what your passions are, romance, honesty, sexual desire, giving and receiving. So I think in a lovership, if people are actually talking about these in the up-front, using these cornerstones as guides, it alleviates a lot of what you've been saying about why lovership might fail.
Travis: It's great to have some sort of agreement with people where a relationship of whatever sort isn't, “You can't do X, Y, and Z. I want you to limit who you are, want you to limit your expressions so you can be with me.” As opposed to, “No, I actually want to know who you are. I actually want you to be expressing what you want. Even if that's a date with somebody else.” That's refreshing to hear.
I can imagine a lovership – I haven't heard that term either, we need to do our research – but I think it could be great not just for the phase when you're qualifying, “Well, you might be him, but maybe not. Maybe it's this guy. I'm going to keep my options open.” It's great for that.
But for me, I'm decisive. It's like, “No, you're the one.” Even when she doesn't like me. “I get that you don't like me. And I feel like you're the one I want to be with.”
And even if I'm clear on that, even if we're both clear on that, I can still imagine having a situation like that where it's like, “Yeah, we're probably going to have kids together in a few years. And that means we'll probably not date anybody for a good seventeen, eighteen years, other than each other, so maybe we still want to have our options open to have experiences with other people now. Not just to qualify each other, but just to have that freedom.
I know for me, as a guy, when that comes up, “Well, what about just me? Why would you want to have sex with anybody else?” I'm like, “Say we're having sex once a day for a month. So, thirty times of having sex. Would I like to have—” Twenty eight in February! Sorry I didn't clarify that. “So twenty-eight times, do I want to have sex with her all twenty-eight times? Sure, why not. Would I want to have sex with her twenty-eight times, or maybe I have sex with her 27 times and once with another lover, some other fling. Would I prefer that?”
A lot of times for me and most guys I know, it'd be like, “Well...” If it was twenty-times with my lover and eight times with someone else, I'd think, “No, that's too many. I want mainly to be with you.” But 27 and one, most guys I know are going to be, “Uh, that sounds pretty good.”
Alissa: But this is exactly what I'm talking about. People are not having these kinds of conversations right now. They're going from dating to unconscious instant relationships where none of this gets covered. So you can actually have these conversations with your lover, the person you're in this lovership with, because I think one of the founding features – and Neo, you'll love this – is love! You're in the lovership to love each other, and honor each other, and all of these things we've been talking about. In a conscious way.
Neo: So, I've been lucky enough to be in a sensual community for the past seven years. So we've thrown play parties where 20, 50, a hundred, two hundred people come together just to explore their sensuality and sexuality.
Alissa: Yes, we are live from San Francisco. Just to locate. San Francisco. [laughs]
Neo: So from that place, I think when men especially haven't necessarily experienced that kind of spaciousness around sex, then there is a desire perhaps to just explore. It's one of our natural, beautiful tendencies as humans, just to have that level of exploration. Now I think the higher aspect of an intentionally in the lovership is to be, having been and having had the option of these kinds of sexual exploration and choosing the woman that you're with anyways...
Imagine, is it more powerful to choose that woman you're with and she's the only person you've ever been with? What other reference point do you have? Rather than saying, you've been with multiple women and they're all incredible. And yet, this woman is more incredible than perhaps any other woman that you're choosing.
For example, the lover that I'm with now, I was seeing four women while seeing her. And I choose to be just making love with her now, and that's really powerful. Because she knows that-- I always be authentic that I'm seeing the other women, I have no reason to hide that, because it because if she cannot have that aspect of me and love that, too, then I wouldn't choose to be with her. So even with that, she chose to be with me, and even right now, the structure that we have set up is, I have her blessing to sleep with other women and yet because of that spaciousness, because--
It's really ironic, right? Because she trusts me that much, it actually comes back to trust. Because she trusts me that much, then I get to choose her even more fully and love her even more deeply, because of that. And I think some of the, sometimes in a relationship, a woman might choose her fear rather than her trust of a man. And the fear might have her cling to the commitment. Then that's a more negative aspect of commitment rather than the higher aspect of commitment is where you're truly knowing your love so deeply for the other person that you want them to be happy no matter what. Even if it doesn't look like the way you want it to look like. Perhaps, say, seeing other people.
And yet, with that spaciousness, that love deepens. I think that's one of the core aspects of lovership, is that love, is that deepening of trust so much that external circumstances cannot tear down the walls of the love and the foundation that you have for each other. Until it does. Everything is changeable, and yet, I think it's a really powerful space, you really set that big of a container for each other.
Alissa: That is a great point. So you're basically saying, your lovership is probably the more open-ended spectrum of what lovership can be. That's the whole point. Lovership is a co-creation of two people who come to relating with their desires intact, knowing what they want, ready to have these kinds of open-hearted, honest communications. And yours, I would definitely say, probably pushes the envelope of who you know yourself to be, because that takes a strong woman, I think, to allow her man to go and share himself with other women and not be crazy jealous and lots of drama. I don't know, but that's just your type of flavor of lovership.
Travis: I think navigating that, especially when you're in this lovership where you're actually communicating and actually creating something together, as opposed to just fitting into the mold of what a relationship is supposed to look like, okay now we do this, and then the next step... You're actually creating it. It's just a gate. And for a lot of guys, not all guys, for a lot of men, they want... There's something they really want deeply that's not that different from what you women want.
If you look deeply in your heart of hearts and give, “Oh, I want to be so special that he doesn't even want... I don't want to chain him, I don't want to restrict his freedom. I want to be so special that he won't want to sleep with anyone other than me.”
And then in this kind of conversation, men are usually, “Oh, I want to be so special [laughs] that you want to be with me as much as I want to be with you, even I also get to date other women...” So it looks like an irreconcilable, how can both people win? But I think for a lot of guys, just even the fact that a woman is willing to look at that... I know for me, for a woman to even want that for me, like, “Oh, I want you to be the man and hope that you get to have other dates and stuff, but I want to be so special that you're only with me.”
I think most men I've found, I get that. “I get that you actually want me to have what I want also,” and then it's a lot easier to find the compromise where it is more monogamous, where a woman's desires are included in this occasion and she feels totally celebrated and wanted. Knowing that she cares about what she wants also.
Alissa: Yes, and I think the radical shift here is what you were saying. Is that the woman can go for her pleasure. And I think that what happens, especially with regard to sex, men are very... It's socially acceptable for men to be with many women, and that's okay. But it's not for women to go for her pleasure and say, “I don't want to necessarily be with just one man. I don't necessarily want to be with a man!” Whatever it is.
So loverships starts to activate in women, “Hey, it's okay for you to go for what you want, and the tables can turn a little. And then that is keys to the kingdom access to women being empowered in steering in the relationship instead of maybe giving a man what she thinks he wants or twisting herself up into a pretzel for it, not going for what she wants. Do you know, on and on and on.
Travis: It sounds fun. If a woman actually takes this on – the pretzel, especially – sex afterwards... The idea that she would actually take this on enough to really be like, “You know what? Maybe I want to boyfriends for a while. We're not in a partnership.” And she takes on that fully.
You might find men who are like, “You know, I felt in my heart of hearts, and I think maybe we shouldn't only be with each other and just do that specially,” who knows what's going to happen when women actually start letting themselves have more choice around what they really want.
Most women I know can receive more than I have been able to give them. Maybe they need two boyfriends. Even the fact that they're willing at least have that option, not have shame around it, and have options and choices, that could really keep things interesting and wake guys up as well.
Alissa: And it's a far cry from where we've been. And I know there are programs, a lot of the people I'm interviewing on my show were starting to bring these kinds of new ideas to the world because this stuff is going on. Women are more and more empowered to ask for what they want, being in control of their emotions, being naturally attractive, understand who men are.
Travis: The only reason I don't bring up this lovership idea in any seminars I lead is because I think the spirit of it is great, and I also want to give a little plug for monogamy here beyond what's already implicit. It's there for a reason, and my fiance and I both lead relationship seminars and we still don't have the bandwidth to communicate what it would take to keep our love and our connection as prisitne as we want it and date other people more...
There's huge parts of our relationship where that's not even an option for us, and we're experts in the field. So to encourage people to date lots of people is... I say, if you want to explore that and it's reciprocal, you both want to explore that, be prepared to have your relationship be a full-time job, be a second job for you. Unless you've really got your heart wide open, your communication really clear.
Alissa: Yeah, it's a slippery slope. And it's tricky. But nonetheless, I think this whole concept, and when I first heard it I thought it was brilliant. Because it really starts to bridge the gap. I am such an advocate for women getting what they want and finding their voice and knowing their desires, and expressing that not only to their loves, but to their friends, to their family, to their bosses. Really finding a calm place from where they can express themselves. Lovership really sort of opens that ballgame, changes the playing court, and shifts the way women have been relating for a really long time in relationships with men.
Neo: So one additional comment that Decker reminded me of is the fact that just because you have the option to play does not mean... When you get to the level of depth and love with each other that I really appreciate and practice toward, then if she is not feeling totally safe with me seeing another woman, it would hurt me to see another woman, barbecue I feel into her so deeply. If she, in a moment needs that safety, I would not hesitate to not see any other woman.
So that has to be foremost, the relationship itself is so potent in that you feel into the other person, I feel into my woman so much, I care and adore and love her so much that if there's any inkling where she would not feel good about that, then my love for her will actually trump my desire to just have a one-night stand. Because we're building something. So it needs to have that solid foundation, otherwise it just becomes superficial, one-night sport-fucking. Which can be interesting, but having been around it for extended periods of time, what I want now is very different and I think that's the level that the lovership can go to.
Alissa: I agree. And if you look in any mainstream magazine, all the little articles about what's going on with men, the infidelity, and this thing and that thing, it's because people haven't given themselves the freedom to talk about what they truly desire and what is truly honoring to their partner,. It's almost like that got overlooked. It's like there's a big gap in what the partnership was even built on, which is why I think this lovership is important. W
whether it's monogamous or open, whatever it is, it's a co-creative, conscious creation and it's just exciting. It's exciting because it's wide-open, but I think what happens mostly is people go into these unconscious instant relationships with all the boxes, and, “You've got to fit into this box, because you're the man,” and, “You've got to fit into this box, because you're the woman.” We're just starting to open it up a little bit as mature, continually conscious, empowered human being.
So we're going to take one more break and when we come back we're going to talk about one more thing.
This is Alissa Kriteman, your host of Just For Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. I'm with Andrew Bancroft, Neo Young, and Travis Decker, and we'll be right back.
Welcome back, this is Alissa Kriteman. I'm your host of Just for Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. We're here with Andrew Bancroft, Neo Young, and Travis Decker, talking about all kinds of amazing things as modern men helping women understand what is truly important to them for commitment, for amazing partnership.
And now we're going to talk about sex. The question I have for you guys is what, in your opinion, makes sex truly incredible?
Neo: Enthusiasm, passion, expressiveness are amazing. So a woman who loves to devour my cock is very sexy. A woman who has screaming orgasm, who is so into it she's just grabbing me and fucking me. That's sexy. Where the mental, thinking about stuff and the decorum falls away and we just become animals. And also to take that energy then to merge so much into each other that it becomes like a spiritual practice, merging of the divine. So where the sex is so uninhibited that it's just wild.
And this comes back to the emotions and the trust that I was mentioning earlier. When a woman feels on a quote-unquote normal basis to express all her emotions, that she trusts all her dark spots with me, then during sex she feels able to fully express all of herself without worrying about being a whore, which is very common thing. And that she gets to have any and all fantasies with me. So when we get that level, the level of trust, surrender, and expressiveness where we are just expressing our rawest desires and passion and pleasure, uninhibited, that's really sexy.
Alissa: Okay, how long between you meet someone and you get there? [laughs] What is that time frame? I love... Let me get this straight.
Neo: Twenty to twenty five minutes.
Alissa: Enthusiasm, passion, expression, devouring, animalistic, spiritual, uninhibited relating. Wow. [laughs] I'll let you ladies know later where you can find Neo.
Andrew, what about you? What makes sex truly incredible for you?
Andrew: Um, when they devour Neo's cock. [laughs]
Breaking the routine, I think. Having it not be routine, having it you're on the way out the door, and you're late for something, and you're like, “Wait a minute! Fuck this! We could be having sex right now!” Just out of the blue.
Alissa: I want you to be serious for one second.
Andrew: I'm serious about that. Honestly, seriously, denial of sex is one of the best things for sex. When it's just like, the give and take of, “Oh no...”
Alissa: Is that kind of an S&M thing where someone's dominating you by withholding sex or no?
Andrew: you're really going to pin me down on this one, aren't you? I'm tied up right now, people. I know you can't see this, but she's waving a whip at me and telling me to nod yes, so okay. [laughs]
Alissa: He does have a chain on.
Andrew: We just switched to an S&M conversation. What was the question?
Alissa: The conversation is about sex and what makes it incredible for you.
Andrew: This is an enormous microphone, it just keeps getting closer to my face. Oh man. [laughs] Being stoned.
Alissa: [laughs] Okay, you're done! Decker! Decker?
Travis: This one really sucks. Base level, a woman's responsiveness. If I'm adoring and just lavishing her with attention and giving her what she wants and she's like, “Well, that was pretty nice, thanks honey.” And I'm just giving her all I got. That's not extraordinary sex. And then when she's actually, when I get to experience her receiving with her through her expression, through her receiving it, that responsiveness is huge for me.
And then, it's tricky for you ladies. When you're really experiencing the pleasure, you want, a lot of times I notice, you'll not want to move or make a sound. And sometimes when you're the most silent and frozen is when you're actually experiencing and lot of pleasure, and I don't want that to be taken from you either. If you're in one of those frozen moments, if you can just at least make eye-contact, or in some way, even silently, convey the intensity of your pleasure, so it's not just you off in your own world experiencing but where I get to be there with you in it, even silently.
That's what makes it just fundamentally extraordinary for me. From that foundation we can go really wild and primal, we can go to places where we're actually sharing what we want and what we're feeling, we can go all the way to those places where we can't tell where I stop and you start. The foundation is still where I'm getting to give you what I got, and it's actually being received and I get to enjoy how much you enjoy it.
Alissa: Okay, I'm sweating. We're going to wrap this conversation up. Okay, so thanks you guys. That was really awesome. I think it's really important for women to get the levels of connection here from being stoned to having really, deep, intimate eye-contact to going to the cosmos, really. You've given me a really deep perspective on dating, relationships, and sex.
And I really appreciate your insight and your honesty, and I know this makes such a huge difference for women to really hear from men, modern men who are out there coaching people in their lives, really knowing what are the issues and challengs that are going on, and being able to come here and share that with me and share that with the women, my audience, the listeniners. So thank you.
Listeners, one more thing. Please feel free to email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. And comment on the show, tell me what you like, what you didn't like, what we missed. If there's anything, ask me any question you want. This show is for you, in service of you, so let me know any of your ideas, topics you'd like me to cover. You can find these amazing men at, let's see, Neo... Thecompletelover.com. That's his website. If you want to email Neo, his email address is email@example.com.
Decker can be found at authenticsf.com and his email address is firstname.lastname@example.org,
And Andrew, you can find his funky face and perspective at illbilly.com.
For texts and transcripts of this show and other shows on the Personal Life Media Network, please visit our website at personallifemedia.com.
Okay, we're almost out of time. But I want to ask you guys one more pressing question, and this is just really quick. Off the top of your head, what is one thing you want women to know about men? Decker?
Travis: On the spot? That a lot of us are a lot like dogs in the most positive way possible. A dog, you just fling a Frisbee and he's like, “Okay! This is totally meaningless, and I can run.” Give me something to do that I'm good at, and that's bliss. And enjoy that and appreciate it, and that's bliss times ten. And then if you kind of scold him and kick him off for not doing it right, eventually he's going to get kind of bitchy, say, “Screw it! Throw the stick for somebody else.” [laughs]
Alissa: So basically give a man something he's going to succeed at. And if you can't do that, then just don't relate with him.
Travis: Not the most conscious perspective, but that's what came to mind. In the way that's pretty, there's a lot of truth to it. We just want to be of service in some way. Most men just want to have something they can excel at in service of other people.
Alissa: I love that. I've heard that many times before, but it really helps to come from a man. So thank you.
Travis: Especially in bed.
Alissa: Be of service in bed? Okay. [laughs]
Neo: So to continue in that vein, we were actually joking earlier, I was like, “Most men would love to have their cock sucked twice a day.” And really women, if you want your man to do something, inspire him through worshiping him sexually. Rather than withholding sex, like, “Oh, only if you do this, I'll blah blah blah, or make love to you,” suck his cock and say how much pleasure he would bring to you if he only did this. And suck him harder. Men get that. Really fast. And really, that's the fastest way. And really both of you will win, because men love to pleasure women. Really. So when you as a woman is worshiping, devouring, and passionately loving your man sensually and sexually to that degree, he will want to return that favor. And you will experience the benefit.
Alissa: That was Neo.
Travis: Ladies, I wish you were here to see Neo stroking his gigantic cock slowly as he gives his answers. [laughs] I would say, well, one thing about guys is that, like everyone, everyone's an individual. You can't rely on stereotypes. You can't even really rely on just past experiences, so I feel like guy love to