Episode 62: Jordan Harbinger, Relationship Coach with The Art of Charm on Love, The Kiss, and The Modern Gentleman

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With laser like focus and whole lot of wisdom about dating, Jordan Harbinger, teacher and dating coach with The Art of Charm, gives us the skinny on how understanding Social Dynamics can be used by both men and women to arrive at that first luscious kiss!  In this interview, Jordan distinguishes for us the difference between Pick Up Artists and Dating Coaches, what “high value” is, why it is really important for us to be nice to men.  A man very comfortable in his own skin, Jordan talks about “The Modern Gentleman” and how The Art of Charm is ushering in a new breed of men (and women!) schooled in intimacy, honesty, communication and confidence.  NICE.  It’s all the information we never learned growing up, brought to us by peers who make it their life’s mission to be better, more loving people.  DOUBLEY NICE.

This is one of four interviews, in a series with The Art of Charm expert teachers and coaches.

Transcript

Alissa Kriteman: Welcome to “Just For Women: Dating, Relationships And Sex”. I am your host Alissa Kriteman. This show is dedicated to providing today’s modern women with useful information they need, to make empowered, conscious choices.

Jordan Harbinger: Body language is crucial. It is the first impression that people have of you before they can even really talk to you or interact with you in any other way. The modern gentlemen or any modern gentleman is actually just a man who is comfortable on his own stand. He understands what it means to be a man in today’s society.

Alissa: Today in the show we are talking about Social Theme Amex, the art of connecting with people. I am happy to continue these series of interviews with teachers and coaches from the Art of Charm. Today’s topic is on Body Language, Lifestyle and Tonality. Our guest today is Jordan Harbinger. Welcome to Just For Women, Jordan.

Jordan: Hey Alissa. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Alissa: So is that it, like a chosen name? Your name, it’s pretty awesome, given what you do. {laughs}

Jordan: Oh yea, well, at first I was a lawyer in Wallstreet for a while and I didn’t think my employer would really dig it if they go with me which they totally do and found out that I had the moonlighting as a dating coach and a top show host. I do not think they would have dug it too much. So I made sure to use my middle name instead of my real first name. So at least I had some plausible loyalty to my duty.

Alissa: {Laughing} You are a liar for sure!

Jordan: Yeap. Exactly! Oh, I refuse that word. I didn’t think about that stuff any more. So, yeah, blasted!

Alissa: {laughing} Let me tell our listeners about you. Jordan Harbinger is known for, like he just said – being a Wallstreet lawyer turn creator of the Art of charm. He’s the host of the pick-up podcast and co-host of the serious satellite radio show – Game On. He was most recently featured on in “Today’s Show” and then the New York Daily News. You know, I’ve been in media myself, Jordan a little bit, and, it’s always interesting when people come up to me and say: “I know you from somewhere”. And I have no idea who they are. Is that starting to happen for you?

Jordan: It is starting to happen for me. In fact, earlier this week, I was at a club in New York City and somebody stopped me and said: “Oh, I know you”. And I thought they were probably just mistaken. And so, I asked where she knew me from. She said, “I saw you on TV in “Today’s Show”. And so that sort of opened up my mind; blew my mind really, because it’s starting to happen a lot where people are like, “I know you from somewhere”. And people, of course, on stage book, I’m getting like 48 friendly requests everyday and stuff like that. People are sending me e-mails, people are sending event messages and stuff saying that they saw me on TV and people, of course that come from Woodworth, from when I was a kid and say, do you know man, I can’t believe it. They mentioned you on Saturday night “Live”.  It’s crazy. So, it’s really interesting to me. And it’s something I think I could definitely get used to.

Alissa: Are you single?

Jordan: I am single.

Alissa: Alright! So, it’s kind of like you are foreign into this whole new world of – women!

Jordan: In a way. Yeah

Alissa: {Laughing} You are like - who knew, who knew?

Jordan: I mean, it’s funny that we spend so much time learning how to be socially savvy, and have great manners and be a gentleman, a modern gentleman here and now I’m just getting attention because people recognize me from TV or something like that, and it’s like: “Did I really need to do that?” Of course I did. But it’s funny that now it’s coming automatically in a lot of ways.

Alissa: I love it! I love it! Well Jordan. I think my listeners really care about being aware of what is going on with the world of man, and what you teach specifically - body language and other fuse that men are giving up that we might not be picking up on. So I’m really pleased to dive into this topic with you today.

Jordan: Sure!

Alissa: Some other things I want to talk about are your other expertise in tonality and lifestyles. So we are going to talk primarily with you about body language, lifestyle and tonality. We got some amazing information from Ken and Benjamin and so I’m looking to take it a little deeper here with you. So, you talk a little bit about being an attorney and not just wasn’t doing it for you out there in Wallstreet, so how did you get hooked up with the art of charm?

Jordan:  Well, I had this podcast, the pick-up podcast that I had started while in law school. And it was just for fun, it was something that my best friend and I were doing because we had already started learning this stuff in teaching. And so we thought, “let’s share this with people free”.  So we started pick-up podcast and started a small blog and released an episode every week. And the show got very popular. I remember jumping up and down at the agent’s basement when we had 30 and 80 people listening, and now it’s definitely well over 10,000. And so it might even be  three times that. And how did we get the stuff from that and now it’s on Satellite Radio? So, it’s really become popular. And somewhere in the middle of all that, we were searching for more people to interview and more expertise, and we came across great coaches – Joshua Pelsia and John Hughes were the first guys that I brought to work with me here in New York City. And I figured – Okay, we can set up a small coaching shop. I can’t really handle all the coaching business because I’m going to be a lawyer now. So these guys can handle the coaching and I’ll quickly cut off the top. That exploded in popularity like crazy and we had great service. We needed business managers. So we brought them in then. And then of course, things started expanding. We brought in a bunch of other coaches and a bunch of business people. Now it’s the Full Fudge {sp}Corporation and everybody is in full-time job. It’s supposed to be something that I was doing after work when I got off from the law firm.

Alissa: Nice! Good for you! And it’s amazing that something that you are naturally passionate about is really starting to become lucrative for you.

Jordan: Absolutely!

Alissa: So, you are kind of the resident expert then on the whole pick-up scene. How is the Art of Charm different from traditional pick-up?

Jordan: Well, pick-up artist is something, first of all dating is not like pick up artist, which is like a big difference. The other companies out there that teach this, teach some scraped stuff that is supposed to get to arise some reaction from people and then they go out to the bars and they prod around looking for girls, and they teach guys how to do the same. And at some level I wanted to say that there is nothing wrong with that, especially if they are being nice to people, and being genuine, but a lot of that does not actually seem to stay. A lot of it turns out to be validation speaking. Guys just want to go out and sleep with as many women as possible, and do not really care what happens in the meantime. And I think that is really trade actually, and it is kind of weak. Because right now we are faced with the opportunity that when guys come to us and clients come to us, men and women (first of all we teach men and women,  so we should draw that up there), if someone comes to us and says: “I need to change my life, I think the answer is meeting more women”. You cannot just go “okay!” and then teach them how to meet a bunch of women. Obviously they want to meet women for a reason. It’s like people who want to be rich. They do not want a lot of green paper in their bank account. They want to have famous toys, things that make them happy, to travel etc they don’t actually want the money itself. So when somebody comes and wants to learn how to meet a bunch of women, actually they just want to have a better social life usually. They want some companionship. So teaching them how to go out there and sleep a bunch of girls is totally counter-productive and it is not going to help them, nearly as much as what we teach here at the art of charm which is, how to communicate better, how to make more friends, how to be the guy that everybody actually likes and wants to be around, how to give people positive value and get them in return. So we call it “hiding the brocolli”. We call it pick-up podcast because it sounds great and guys go: “yeah, we are gonna pick up girls, great!”, but really? It’s like covering brocolli in cheese so that the kids will eat it. You bring it to them in with the cheese and then you take the cheese and you keep them there for the vitamins and the nutrients and the stuff that really is good for them. So pick-up podcast comes like: “Hey we are going teach you how to meet women”. And also, we are going to teach you how to improve your life and be more confident and look people more in the eyes and go after your dreams, and basically change your entire life. But in the meantime you can go ahead and focus on the fact that we are teaching on how to meet girls that you want right now.

Alissa: {Laughing} Oh my God! You are so full of information. It’s amazing. I really appreciate your analogy about covering brocolli with cheese. It sounds like guys are really coming in not realizing that there is some deep experiences they want to have but it is sort masked over with this idea that they need to get girls. Like that’s going to give them some sort of confidence some place in the world when you are really saying: “Actually, that’s good if you have never had that, but here is this whole other world of deep connection and enemesy {sp} with women, sounds like what’s you are saying.

Jordan: Absolutely! It’s hard to get guys to come in if we say: “Hey you know what, I can teach you how to be confident and make a lot more friends.” They would be like, “forget that. I do not need more friends. I just want to meet girls and have them like me and be popular”. It is so much easier to say: “Hey man, I can teach you how to meet girls and have them laugh at your jokes, and all this other stuff that you are not used to having and you do not have to feel awkward when you go out any more.” That’s what they want. They want to put a band-aid over that. For what they get when they come to the Art of Charm is a life-changing experience. It becomes so much greater than just meeting girls or even getting a girl-friend. Guys report that they have met a lot of new people, they are having a lot of fun, they are getting promotions at work, they find that their family relationships get stronger and they start hanging out with their co-workers more and enjoy their jobs more. It is a totally life-changing experience. And you’ve got to be real then with the easy stuff, the stuff that people can wrap their mind around.  Because really it is outside people’s reality that they can change their entire life with a skill set that we can teach them. But guys, you know that we teach them how to meet women because it is something that they have heard about, they have read about it, they have listened to it on pick-up podcast etc.

Alissa: So, is that why you are the lifestyle expert because what you are saying is you sort of lured the men with a dating relationship stuff, but really they start to see that it’s a day to day experience?

Jordan: Exactly! So what I mean by having a lifestyle as an attractive lifestyle is that people want to be part of your world when it is exciting. We have so many more friends than I can share – I speak for Josh and Jonny and everybody here at the art of charm, we have so many more friends and I should say, and I am doing the air code that you cannot see. Now that we have been on Ecuad-Asia, we have got a radio-show, now everybody wants to be a part of what we do. We have really exciting lives. We are always going out and meeting co-people and there’s always meeting family TV stars or pop-singers or whatever at Serious Satellite Radio. So now people are really keen to kind of get in on that. And at some level that’s okay, it makes sense. If you knew somebody in your building, your neighbor with stannic you might want to go and hang out with them too. So if you are having an attractive lifestyle, it does have to mean you are getting stannic although everybody knows you are. It could just mean that you throw off real tickets one party and you can cook and you have dinner parties every Tuesday. People want to go to that because they are sick of sitting around all day watching TV and eating frozen dinner afterwards. They want fun; they want connection. So if I can teach people how to do that, and that’s what we do here at the Art of Charm, teach people how to make those connections, enforce them and make them really strong. Then you start to develop this really attractive lifestyle, to going after your passions. If you took hobbies that are exciting and especially things that can be done socially, then you start to go after those things, you start to involve those things in your life and then people want to get involved in your life and with you.

Alissa:  Alright! So I can definitely see that, the more I talk to you guys is the more the more this does not seem like it’s dating at all. But it’s really, like you said, about connecting, being real, telling the truth; so it’s just funny to me that it all has to come under the guise of dating and linking up with women.

Jordan: Exactly! But that’s the drive. A lot of guys are who are aged are thinking: “Okay, something seriously wrong. I do not have a girl-friend. What’s going on? I am so lonely. My friends are all getting married. I am freaking out over here.” But if you can tell the guy, “Hey, we can fix that.” Then suddenly, everything else in their life starts to fall into place. What guys think is: “If I just had a girl, I’d feel good about myself. And I’d try to be able to focus on all this other stuff.” But the truth be told: when you focus on all that other stuff and you focus on just making yourself a better person, women and friends and all that stuff totally fall in place. You do not have to go out and impress women with fancy stuff. You just have to have a lifestyle that you approve of. You have to approve of yourself. So if we can help guys to approve of themselves and women will of course, approve of them. If guys find themselves attractive, women will find that attractive. Really, we are starting with the person, with the client. We are not starting with some sort of scripted routine or response that is going to get something from the woman in a temporary setting just to get a certain reaction. That’s such a band-aid over a boat hole. It’s not really what we do here at all.

Alissa:  Yea, exactly! I’m really glad you drove home the distinction between that and normal pick-up. But you do have this podcast show, called pick-up podcast show. Is that confusing to people who are listening to that show?

Jordan: A lot of times, yes! I mean it’s hiding the brocolli. A lot of times people do get confused. I’ll ask a guest to come on the show or hire a broadcaster may be a life-coach and they are like: “I do not think I am really suitable for your show. I do not like you pick-up artist guys. And I am like: “Okay, listen to one episode”. And usually they do and like: “Okay, sorry. When can we schedule the interview?” Because, sure people think that pick-up is dating and seduction. “Oh, my god, pick-up podcast. This is great!” And I throw up some tips and then they come back for more. So the real secret is not just stand up straight and look people in the eye. The real secret is feel good enough about yourself to stand up straight and look people in the eye, and now you are doing the tips on how to do that. So guys get really involved with the contents and then they start to see drastic changes in their lives.

Alissa: You know it is interesting, I actually did listen to one of the podcasts, and for me, because I am in this realm, it was interesting. But it did get a little heady into like: “You guys literally have this amazing world, in which you live about how to relate with people, which is unbelievable to me”. And some of the things I appreciated were some of the guys talking about true alpha-behavior and being an alpha-guy and that alpha is more about giving than it is about taking from people. And it sounds like you guys, the Art of Charm are transforming the way men relate to this password of pick-up. It seems like the new evolution of relationship. And I am not going to say “pick-up” anymore because it really is like you said about relating and taking these old ideas about what is the alpha-male and what is alpha-behavior, and really saying, hey, why can’t we be the givers? I love that.

Jordan: Exactly. What people do not realize as we were saying before, guys think: “I have to be an alpha-male. So they walk around with their arms going down like a gorilla and step on people’s feet and yell at people, bark at people, but really that’s not alpha-male behavior. That’s really just immature behavior, and that’s what boys, I should say, start doing when they are trying to become men. So once you are comfortable in your own skin and you actually feel inside your identity as a man, you do not have to do that anymore. So we are trying to expedite that process, where guys go from being the dormant and walk all over or too cool for school to talk to anyone to actually a strong masculine person and not just throwing your weight around and telling people what to do. But it is actually somebody who is confident, self confident, appreciates themselves and gets to appreciate others.

Alissa: Well, I love what you are saying. We are going to take a short break to support our sponsors. Listeners I’d love for you to listen to these Ads. They are created by my sponsors for my Show and they help me bring these great experts to you. So if you can support them, I’d really appreciate it. This is Alissa Kriteman. I am speaking with Jordan Harbinger of the Art of Charm and we will be right back.

{interlude}

Alissa: We are back. I am Alissa Kriteman. We are speaking with Jordan Harbinger about the real strong differences between pick-up artistry and what these coaches and teachers are offering at the Art of Charm, which sounds very different, much more grounded, much more effective. And I really like what you said Jordan, about creating the modern gentleman. What are some of the characteristics of the modern gentleman?

Jordan: The modern gentleman or any modern gentleman is actually just a man who is comfortable in his own skin. He understands what it means to be a man in today’s society. A lot of people here especially younger guys are really confused to what it means to be a man. Like I said before, they are walking with their arms bowed out, or they feel like they have to bow down to everything that women want them to do or they have to feel like they have got to get a really great job that their parents want them to do. People just do not know what it means to have the identity as a man in today’s society. There is nobody really there to teach it. So we are trying to fill that gap a little bit. The modern gentleman, he knows how to dress. He knows how to take care of himself. Most importantly, he knows how to take care of others around him. He is a natural leader of men. He is charismatic. Women love him and men want to be like him, exactly take Austin power style, that’s right, but, people want to be around him, which is most important. People want to be around you when you are charismatic, and they know they can rely on you. There is an element of trust there. He’s got a generosity of spirit that most people just do not have, and that’s what sets him apart from the other guys around there.

Alissa: So at the heart of all of this, would you say it’s a man who has learned self-confidence?

Jordan: It is. It’s a man who has learned self-confidence and acts on that self-confidence. He trusts himself, he puts faith on others, he gives people credit. He’s somebody that gives positive feelings to everybody around him. He says hello to the Janitor as well as the Police Officer as well as the Guard when he is on the elevator with all three. He gives everybody what we call value. He give everyone equal treatment and value. He respects people. He allows people to come into his life and generates report with everybody. He is not afraid to let people know him. It shows vulnerability where appropriate, but he is also not afraid to make a strong connection with other people and allow them into his world. That’s what I mean by generosity of spirit. He allows people to come into his world. He realizes what value he has, that he is attractive and that what he does is exciting for others. He tries to involve them instead of keeping it for himself.

Alissa: Are all these keys? It such a fascinating stuff. I mean you really are- I know that men have gotten confused about how to succeed with women which is why the whole pick-up seduction community was born. And so it sounds like you are putting in some real solid grounded points that men can hold on to, and still at the same time have their own personal flaring creativity. Is this what social dynamics is about? Like where are you getting all of these key things?

Jordan: Well, a lot of these ideas were developed by others and we learn them through studying psychology and socio-psychology and things like that. But a lot of it was developed in-house here at the Art of Charm. Joshua Pelsia {sp} Jonny Zubak {sp}and Kim Ban {sp} and the rest of the team at the Art of Charm. We sit down and we talk about this stuff all day. We live, eat and breathe the stuff. And so we put our ideas into practice, we cast things at other people, we learn from people who are better than us and we put them all back into the curriculum. And I want to emphasize the last thing that we learn from people that are better than us. So we do not have friends sitting around talking about socio dynamics all day, but it does not matter. You can still learn from people like Gail Callagy Courses, Donald Trump Institute Courses – those things are amazing – you got Anthony Robins. Everybody out there who is professing that they have these great ideas, these books that they write. I mean, go out there and check it out and pick from that. That’s why they created these materials, and people go out there and even if they do pick that up and they read it a lot of times they do not apply it. But the key is to go out there and apply the knowledge, because we’ve got the knowledge for you here at the Art of Charm. People have the knowledge there in books and courses. It’s just that people they say to you these things and they become seminar junkies or knowledge junkies and they just study, study and study and never apply. So when you learn and you apply, then you start to grow and that is the key. That’s really the key. The reason why we got to where we are is because we all help each other grow, and we foster that here at the company. It’s an environment where everybody is comfortable to grow and expand really come into their own and contribute to what we have to offer everybody else.

Alissa: It just sounds like this awesome juicy environment, very distinct from some of the other stuff that is out there. I do not know what other people are doing with socio-dynamics but it sounds like there is a very strong cross-over between how to be successful in business and how to be successful in your love life. So how does that cross-over deeper? Do you guys teach any courses on sexuality, or does it stick mostly to dating?

Jordan: Sexuality is definitely a part of the curriculum. There is not a specific program about it, but it is definitely a part of the curriculum at the Art of Charm. The stuff does cross-over in business as well. We have a success principles course that Benjamin and Josh teach here, and it is all about networking for business purposes. It makes sense for us to teach that kind of thing because again this is what we practice and that is why we got to where we are. A.J. and myself both have Advanced Degrees from a great school, University of Michigan, and we use the knowledge that we gained there and tell people how to reproduce the results that we have already achieved. And so a lot of the stuff that we do with people in general, of course, is very applicable to business because business is just the ministry of people. And what we do is we teach careers and super appropriate for executives and people just getting a job to learn how to network and it’s the first track to the top; it really is. Because when people like you, they want to work with you. And the higher ups always have that choice. So if they are choosing somebody, they are going to choose somebody they like. Even over somebody who might be a little bit better qualified for the position, they are always going to choose somebody that they like. So we can teach you what you need to know to network with those people, generate a connection with them and of course move up the ladder that much faster.

Alissa: Nice! Is this one thing I’m really getting from what you guys are saying is that, (and like you are the lifestyle guy), that there really is a whole life approach, that you can actually have better relationships with your family. And one thing I can mention which I really appreciate is that you become like a better father, and that you can actually impact the life of small children, your children, so there is inherent knowledge on how to be a gentleman. That seems to be forgotten that you guys are putting in.

Jordan: Absolutely. I do not have any children that, I should say, that I know of, of course. I do not have any kids, so I cannot speak of being a better father, but I can tell immediately that this stuff is going to help me raise my own children as well when the day does come. I’m a big brother to all my students here. I am a big brother to everybody here at the Art of Charm. I am involved with my family back home as well in Michigan. I love talking to my cousins in the Senior Development and I really think it is important. A lot of time guys are so focused on what they are doing career-wise that they think because they are providing for their families, that is all that is important. But kids do not just need money from Dad, but they need also that role model. A lot of guys lose that balance by trying to provide money for College and provide for the whole family. They do not realize that what’s really most important is the role model and an image to grow up and grow into.

Alissa: So what is it that men need from women but they are afraid to ask for?

Jordan: Would you repeat that question because I got cut off for a second?

Alissa: What do men need from women but they are afraid to ask for? You know, you were talking about men need things, and it is true. And I think women are just starting to realize what men really need. So let’s talk about men’s needs for a minute. What do men really need, but they are so afraid to ask?

Jordan: I do not know what men need that they are afraid to ask.  I know what men are afraid to do is actually need a woman that is authentic. It is hard for us to go after what we actually want, for a lot of men. And I do not fully understand what it is that each man would need and would want to ask from a woman, but I think that what we need to go after is our authenticity. If you put authenticity out there, if I am an authentic man, I would not have to ask if one is an authentic woman because that woman would actually be attracted to me. I think what men need to do, instead of asking for what they need from women, they need to focus on their self-development and they will naturally attract what it is that is their best match that they require. Their needs will be met if they work on knowing who they are and what they want, then the right woman would automatically find the right man. I am a very strong believer in that.

Alissa: It’s almost like the law of attraction, what you are putting out is naturally going to ressisinate to you. Do you talk about that?

Jordan: We do talk about that. I try to make it not so much of the physical type stuff because I think people tend to roll their eyes when I say things like: “Put that energy out into the universe, men.” I really do not think that it is meant to be physical or bizarre like that. What it is, is that you are looking for opportunities and you are capitalizing on them. For example if I am an authentic man, I am being honest with people. And if I meet somebody who is not authentic and who is not honest, I am not going to continue dialogue with them. I am not going to be involved with their lives. But when I meet somebody that is the same way, I am looking for that and I realize what is going on the subconscious level and so suddenly I am surrounded by authentic eyed-people; when I am looking for business connections and I am looking for people who have value to offer the business and who I can offer value to. If  I’m offering value to everybody, they want to be around me, they want to be involved with my company. So, of course, those people are going to be those that surround me in the end. Yes, it is a law of attraction, but it is not some sort of mystical energy that flows throughout the universe that you can get just by envisioning that you have a mother audience and submit that you have one on the driveway. You actually have to go out there and do the work, but the way you do that is by working on yourself and not working to ask women for other things to meet your needs, or asking for your friends to meet your needs or asking business people to give you value. You have to focus on how you can give value to other people and all that stuff will come back to you in abundance.

Alissa: Wow! You are spot on! We are going to take another short break to support our sponsors. Again listeners, these are my sponsors kicking down some great pills for you, so check them out. I really appreciate it. They support me. And also, feel free to send me an e-mail at [email protected]. You can also leave me a phone message and the phone number is 206-350-5333. I’d love to hear your feedback, comments, questions – leave me a message. This is Alissa Kriteman. I am speaking with Jordan Harbinger of the Art of Charm, and we will be right back.

{Interlude}

Alissa: We are back. I am Alissa Kriteman. We are talking to Jordan Harbinger about all that’s going on with the Art of Charm. What it is to be a modern gentleman and what the women need to know to relate with this modern gentleman. It sounds like authenticity is definitely the key. And before the break, we were talking about having to do the work. So Jordan, what happens when you do the work, this field-work? You know, you were on in today’s show and the New York Daily News and you show guys out there in the field. What’s happening? Where are the lasting benefits of guys doing this work?

Jordan: Well field-work is either going out during the day or going out to the bar at night or club or a venue like that. What that actually does is allow us to see exactly what our students are doing when they talk and interact with people. This is a chance to observe them in their unnatural habitat, so to speak. Because most people are afraid, just being afraid of going to a bar and actually talking to somebody they do not know. A lot of people will roll their eyes out there, especially girls are saying: “Well, we are not so hard to talk to.” But it is not being hard to talk to as they say. But we have all these frequenting nerves in our heads and we are going through these horrific scenarios. And we are thinking: “What if she does not like me? It would be so embarrassing and everyone is going to laugh at me”. There is a lot of pressure out there. So field-work is a chance for us to push our students to talk and interact with people and then we can preterit their body language, their eye contact their vocal tonality everything, everything from what they are saying to how they are saying it. And that allows us to push those students way outside their comfort zones, and that is how you learn. When your mind and body are uncomfortable you retain knowledge really well and you learn so much. That is why things like traveling are such memorable experiences for people. The reason why people take so much time away traveling or starting a new job or moving is because it is stressful, and when you are outside your comfort zone, that is when you actually grow the most. So fieldwork is a chance not only for us to see our students interact with people and prêt each them, but also make sure that they are learning very rapidly.

Alissa: So tell us about this you mention tonality and body language. What are guys reading? What are they scanning for?

Jordan: Well, vocal tonality and body language. Body language is crucial. It is the first impression that people have of you before they can even really talk to you or interact with you in any other way. When you walk into a bar or a club or any room for that matter, people are looking at who is coming in. And if you are coming in and you are slouching and you are looking at the ground, people are going to lose interest right away. If you come in and you are standing up tall, you are making eye contact and you are smiling, people are going to think: “okay. This person looks friendly. He looks confident.” That is the obvious first impression you want to give. You do not want to have to work your way out of a hole. You do not want to walk in with bad body language, and prop up the bar for a while until you work up the courage to talk to women because they have already formed an opinion about you, and it is wrong. Sure may be you can overcome if you work really hard, but why do that? Why not just make it easy on yourself in a very positive open body language to begin with?

Alissa: Well, and that goes for men and women as well, I could guess. A woman who is walking in with a smile would resonate a lot louder than a woman who is sort of self-conscious and eyes down and head down.

Jordan: Absolutely! If women walk around with a look on their face like they just stepped on something, it makes it really hard for guys to go and approach them because we figure: “Okay, she is obviously in a really bad mood. I do not really know if I want to jump into that.” They do not want to go and talk to somebody who is probably going to make things difficult for them, and may be even put a dump on their evening. We want to talk to people who are fun, who are smiling, laughing. People want to be part of a group that is having fun. That goes for both men and women. If I am in a group with my friends, we are always having the best time wherever we are. If I want to go meet other people I do not want to go and meet people who are going to drive my energy down. I want to meet people who are going to keep the vibe up and make the party girl. I do not want to have to put all the energy into the interaction. So, yes, for men and women, strong eye contact, smile, positive body language, very confident, laugh, it’s okay. You are out to have a good time, so you should look like you are having a good time. That’s the best way to get people to approach you, ladies and for guys, it’s the best way to be received cordially - to have that really friendly fun vibe. Everybody wants to be a part of that and everybody wants to be around it.

Alissa: Right! And in authentic friendly fun vibe which you – it sounds like you work on a chorus now with these guys in building this natural confidence instead some sort of like death or that weird pick up stuff that guys do to try to evoke laughter from women?

Jordan: Right! There is a lot of that now going around, this emotional response where guys are like:  “nice finger nails that’s real”. And it just comes across as rude and socially awkward. People do not realize that. It might work on somebody who has low self-esteem to get out to think:  “May be this looks funny. May be I do not look as pretty”. There is no reason to make people more insecure. That’s absolutely ridiculous. I think that instead of coming across socially awkward and trying to pick up women who have low self-esteem, you should be making friends with people who have high value, people who are going to make your life a better experience to enrich your life. That’s the difference between the temporary one nightstand mentality and the long lasting relationship mentality. Sure if you just want a one night stand, who cares as long as she looks good or he looks good or whatever you are going for. But if you want to make friends and enrich your life, you should probably start off on the right foot and not by insulting somebody.

Alissa: Exactly! And I would think that the woman that you want be with, you are going to attract from coming from that place instead of all the other stuff, which is another thing that I want women to hear, is that the pick-up stuff will be launched upon women where guys think it is really going to work. But Ladies, do not be that woman who is giving off a vive that this weird insult kind of technique is going to work with you.

Jordan: Exactly! A lot of times it’s hard to control what you respond to. But if a guy does come up and uses the same obviously canned limes on you and you think they’re real lime, go ahead and call it up, but you’ll still got give him a credit for making the approach. It would be fun to let him down easy. And you know what, you can just tell him to knock it off and be real and may be he’ll actually do it.

Alissa: I like that, I like that! Good reminder that we do not need to be negative and lash out.(Laughs}

Jordan: Exactly! Exactly! Wisdom! It’s already taken him so much courage. The reason why guys are out there learning that stuff is because it takes so much courage to go up there in the first place. The last thing they need is a negative reaction just because he used something that he thought it was going to work. After all he is going to talk to you because he thinks you are attractive. So at least take that much as a compliment.

Alissa: I think that is one thing we cannot here of is how much courage it takes men to approach women. And even if they are doing this pick-up stuff that does not sound - I mean some of it can be really offensive, but to still remember that they are trying. For some reason they are using that route to get to us, and so, let’s just be honest about how it really feels, then we can both grow.

Jordan: Exactly! Well, that should give you some indication of just how important you are to us. And we are going out there and learning this whole crazy system that we do not even fully understand just so that we can go up and talk to you. That much speaks to how exactly how important you are in our lives.

Alissa: So there really is no like role-playing here. One of the things I like to do is do a role-play of an example of how women can interact and men can interact with women, but honestly from what you are saying, it sounds like just you are working on being confident, both men and women being self-confident; and being able to be grounded in the moment, so whatever is coming up can come up. Whatever you want to say, you can say. There aren’t so many defenses and weird little things going on.

Jordan: Exactly! I really think that a lot would be lost in a role-play via this medium. I really think that. For one thing you cannot see my adorable blessed smile over the phone.

Alissa: {Laughing} Shoot!

Jordan: Eye contact would be totally immute at this point and all you would get is my voice. I would not have the occasion to touch you at all and make you laugh really. I do not really have that many really great weedy things to say at the drop of the head. I tend to be very natural and spontaneous. I think a role-play might really just put a lot of people to sleep at this point. The truth, it is confidence and it is teachable and that’s exact what we do at the Art of Charm – to teach the elements of confidence so that it starts to become part of your life and your personality.

Alissa: Let’s talk about tonality for a quick second because you have mentioned that a few times now. So are you saying this sort of tonic rescinence of your voice is actually going to make a difference?

Jordan: Well, again I do not want to make too many physical with….

Alissa: I like many physical, can you get it?

Jordan: I know. I can totally tell you are that type of person. But I am going to stay away from it anyway.

Alissa: Why?

Jordan: Because, you know what, it really to me, sounds so silly. I guess I am scientific by nature. And I think that it’s more important especially for guys to really realize that it is not so mysterious energy that you cannot wrap your head around, it is something that you can actually work on. Because if I just talk about energy and all that stuff and the rescinence, people are going say: “Okay, I’ve no idea how to get there.” But if I give you, kind of building blocks I think it becomes more digestible. That’s why.

Alissa: You’ve just won some points in my book because I really get it like that’s kind of the masculine focus line there, where women generally want to be a little bit more flowery and flowing, and you are just kind of like - now we are not going to talk about that. We are going to do it this way. {Laughing}

Jordan: Pretty much, sorry! I realize it has to be flowery but if we are being instructional right now, I think much flower is the better.

Alissa: That’s so good! So tell me about Tonality now.

Jordan: You got it! Tonality is important. Basically if you cannot be heard in any kind of environment if it is loud, you are in a bar, you are outside, you cannot be heard, you cannot engage. And if you are in a busy area, even a grocery store, there is so much other stimulus going on. There are lights, in bars there is music, it can be dark or may be people are doing something else like shopping for food at whole food. You have to be able to get people’s attention and hold it. And vocal tonality is the key to that. Vocal tonality measures with eye contact to make for really engaging sexy personality that goes together with body language and the other elements that we teach, and it just makes the whole deal. Now if you can speak with confidence and you do not speak with what we call ending things in question tone, if you speak in grammar tones and you speak in statements that are confident, not just being bold but actually confident, people will follow you. You will be a leader of men. When I was an attorney I used to win cases based mostly on vocal tonality. Because I would look at the jury, I would make strong eye contact and say: “This is how it happened.” And opposing counsel often times would say, “Well, it possibly happened this way.” And they are not even using those words, it’s just that their tonality was so weak that everybody automatically assumed that I was absolutely telling the truth and that the opposing counsel may or may not be telling the truth. And of course, when you are deciding whether or not someone can go to jail, it’s a big deal to be right. Of course, lucky for me all my clients were not guilty. So it was easy for me to be that confident.

Alissa: Wow! I am getting this little votive of like – is this walking along the lines of deception?

Jordan: Vocal tonality?

Alissa: Yeah.

Jordan: Not necessarily. Because it’s not that I’m telling you something and that you are going to believe it. There’s no hypnotic going on here. There is no hypnotism or trans-invoking stuff going on here. It’s just being confident and expressing that through your voice. Really it’s not that big of a deal, it’s finding you are blessed and putting more air over your vocal cod; ending things in a down road tone instead of a question tone to sound more confident. It’s important to do that because it allows you to be more confident in what you are doing. It allows you to become leader. I do not really see that as deceptive at all. It is no more deceptive than putting on nice clothes to go out so that people find you attractive versus wearing slacks all day that you wear to the gym and go out in those. Not that there is anything wrong with that, to my view.

Alissa: {Laughing} Well, you definitely got my attention. So, we are almost out of time, but I want to ask you one final question. And I know you do a lot of work with men. Some sections really amazing pointed so gist intense work with men. But if there is one you want to leave with women, with regard to who men are, what would you say?

Jordan: Well men are struggling now to find our place in society, our identity. It’s all-malleable. We are out there. We are not just throwing that arrogance around because we feel like this is how men act. This is something that we have evolved, just put on a fan, and we feel like we have to do that. We feel like we have to do that to get a response from you. And what men also are still confused in so many ways, we are building up the courage, like I said before, studying the systems of pick-up and all these other junk to get women’s attention. We are getting jobs so that we can buy cars to impress women. Our entire careers often times are especially geared towards making enough money to support a woman; just so that we can get a girlfriend, just so that we can get a wife. I remember in law school, so many guys were talking about: “Men we are going to get so many girls now that we are lawyers. This is going to be great!” Nobody even cared about really being a lawyer. Almost one in ten probably only cared about being a lawyer, but the rest of us were like: “Men, these girls are just going love it. We have these great jobs with social status.” We are obsessed with making sure that you guys like us. And it is tough, it is tough; it is a lot of pressure. It is just as much pressure as for women to look good all the time and wear make-up and go to the gym. It is the same thing for guys. So when you think guys have it easy and when you feel like blowing a guy off because you had a bad day, just think about that; think twice. If he is talking to you at all, it’s taking him a lot to get that far. If you see a guy giving you a little bit of eye contact, don’t give a dirty look back hoping that he will come up and talk to you. Flash him a smile. It’s not going to kill you. I can feel the resistance already on the other end here.

Alissa: From me? Oh, oh, from women? I think the thing is, god, it’s not easy for men or women. This is why we do what we do, because we are trying to unearth and dispel all the confusion about why it is so difficult for men and women to connect when both want that desperately, right! So it is kind of amazing that there’s so much junk in the way. But that’s what we are doing. We are teaching people how to do that and get to the good stuff, which is the love and the connection, the support, all the things that we want to have in our lives. And so, like you said, it does not have to be so difficult.

Jordan: It does not have to be difficult. It is not easy, but it does not have to be difficult.

Alissa: Right. Well, thank you, thank you Jordan for the work that you are doing. You especially, man, I just get your, from all of you, I’ve got all your passion from Benjamin and Ken. I’ve never talked to such a forthright and spot-on group, really passionate about what you are doing. And I know it makes a huge difference in the world. So, thank you from myself and all the women listening who have learned something really important about what’s going on with men today.

Jordan: Well thank you for having us. It is our pleasure, any time.

Alissa: And again, how can we find you?

Jordan: You can find the Art of Charm at theartofcharm.com and if you want to point some guys in the right direction and show them how to get healthy advice to meet some women and improve their social lives, my show is at pickuppodcast.com.

Alissa: Awesome! And listeners, join us next week on “Just For Women…” where I am going to talk with Josh Pelsia another great coach from the Art of Charm, and we are going to talk about other ways men try to connect with us –  {Spanish}.

So, Jordan, thanks again. That was really great stuff. That brings us to the end of the Show. Thank you all for listening. For text and transcripts of this Show and other Shows on the Personal Life Media Network, please visit our website at personallifemedia.com. For a copy of my book: “Alissa For Cornerstone To Living Your Dreams” go to my website sacredspot.org and click on the book cover icon. I am your host Alissa Kriteman always expanding your choices here on Just For Women: Dating, Relationships And Sex. Tune in next week for more juicy news you can use.