Episode 61: Kim Ellington, Art of Charm Relationship Coach, teaches women to bare their naked soul!
In this highly inspiring interview with Expert Relationship Coach Kim Ellington, we learn what it takes to be empowered in dating, relationships and sex! A passionate and dedicated coach for both women and men, Kim shows us how to “bare all” when it comes to revealing who we are and what we want as woman. Her spot-on information cuts to the core of why women fail with men and describes the “science” of understanding men. If you want to be seen as the amazing woman you are, tune in and hear what this vivacious, empowered woman has to share!
This is one of four interviews, in a series with the Art of Charm expert teachers and coaches.
Host: This program is brought to you by personallifemedia.com.
Alissa Kriteman: Welcome to Just for Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex. I'm your host Alissa Kriteman. This show is dedicated to providing today's modern women with useful information they need to make empowered, conscious choices. On this show today we're talking about social dynamics, the art of connecting with people. On today's show we continue our series with the teachers and coaches of the “Art of Charm.” Today's topic is “Creating your Feminine Charm.” Our guest today is Kim Ellington, the only female coach with the “Art of Charm.”
(Excerpt of audio that occurs later in the interview)
Alissa Kriteman: Welcome to Just for Women, Kim.
Kim Ellington: Thank You!
Alissa Kriteman: So good to have you here this XX, yay!
Kim Ellington: Yeah, this is exciting.
Alissa Kriteman: So Kim Ellington is best known for creating courses for people on how to overcome their social weaknesses to become more successful in the professional arena. She's the only female teacher and coach to the “Art of Charm” and she's the creator and lead instructor for “Creating your Feminine Charm.” So Kim, I know my listeners really care about hearing a woman's perspective on how social dynamics, techniques really help people connect. So, I'm really happy to have you with us today.
Kim Ellington: Yeah, I'm excited. It's a topic that I've been passionate about for a long time so I love talking about it and sharing it with other people.
Alissa Kriteman: So today I want to talk to you about specifically that, the world of social dynamics, what's going on, what do we need to know. I want to hear what's it's like to be the only woman on a team of male teachers and coaches who are teaching men how to connect with women. And then of course I want to talk about this course you created, “Creating Your Feminine Charm.” So tell us a little bit about you, how did you get to this place to be with these men? Sounds like your background, and many of the coaches, are steeped in this social dynamics education. So how did you get here?
Kim Ellington: Yeah, absolutely, I have been in sales pretty much all of my adult life, since I graduated high school and even during college. As anybody knows, who has a sales background, it is social dynamics. Successful sales people are constantly relating to and interrelating with other people. The better you do that, the better job you do. I've always done it, and definitely in different venues. Lots of different jobs that I've had. Right after The Game came out I had a male friend who was also in sales and traveled a lot, and he gave me The Game to read and asked if I would check it out for him. After I finished he explained that because he was only in town on the weekends, he need a wing, he needed someone to go out and help him actually go meet girls because he didn't have the luxury of having seven days a week in the area.
Alissa Kriteman: You were a wing woman?
Kim Ellington: I was. That's how it all started. Yeah. I was a wing woman. Because of my own personality I like to know everything, and I just started studying and going crazy, and I realized as I was reading a lot of material that all these things are things that I do and know how to break down very well. So it started there, as a wing woman, but then quickly went into coaching. I found that helping people sell their best selves, actually helping people find their best selves from the beginning was a lot more personally gratifying than selling any other products or services that I had sold. It kind of went hand in hand with being a woman because I get to talk and discuss dating, relationships, and sex pretty much for a living. There's no better way to do it. My dad always said, “Find something you love to do and find a way to make a living at it,” and I've finally done that.
Alissa Kriteman: So this is your full-time work now?
Kim Ellington: It is.
Alissa Kriteman: Okay, so you're a coach, you lead these workshops. If we wanted to find out more about social dynamics itself, not necessarily related to dating and relationships and sex, what would we read? What's like the Bible on social dynamics?
Kim Ellington: I wouldn't say that there's just one. There's a book called Power vs. Force, that I'm reading right now, which is fantastic. I do not have the author's name in my head. It talks about why people act the way they do, and so far it's been a great read. Any book that's about how people interact with each other is incredible and how people how people react to themselves, because that's actually where it starts. I've read a lot of self-help books over the years because the subject is so fascinating. I have a list, I think a lot of them are actually on the “Art of Charm” website, of books that help people get to know themselves and why we have the reactions we have in our lives, and that is probably the best place to start. Until you can understand where your own self is coming from, you have a hard time relating trying to other people.
Alissa Kriteman: So what are you learning about men as you interact with them, teach them, go out and there help them? What are you noticing about men in general?
Kim Ellington: Men are fantastic! There are so many great men out there. I know that your listeners, a lot of them are going, 'Yeah right,' well it's the truth. What I've learned most about men through my studies and my work is that there are fantastic men out there, but they are just lacking the social skills to present themselves in a way that women find attractive. They're the guys that say, 'If I could just get past the first ten minutes she would know how great I am.' So I spend a lot of time helping these guys learn how to present themselves in that first ten minutes so that they can have a chance to be the great guy that women are looking for.
Alissa Kriteman: A lot of people talk about this approach anxiety that men deal with. What do you think is at the heart of that?
Kim Ellington: Fear of rejection. Men are so scared to be rejected, because of many different reasons. Everybody has their own. Sometimes they have a pattern of that in their past. They have not known how to handle their presentation the right way, they've been rejected. Some people, I actually have a lot of guys talk about the Hollywood movie idea in their head that women make a habit of slapping guys or throwing drinks in their faces if they don't like the look of them. I've been teaching women for quite some time as well and not a single one has ever told me that they've ever slapped or thrown a drink in a guy's face. So a lot of these fears are unfounded. It's just based on being so congested personally that they're afraid to be rejected when the fact of the matter is we are all going to get rejected in our lives. Even the most beautiful woman in the world is not everybody's cup of tea. You can't please all the people all the time.
Alissa Kriteman: I like that. In my interview with Benjamin, he talked about there is no rejection, and actually shifting the perspective of what rejection really is to, Hey! that was a learning experience.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely.
Alissa Kriteman: I really like that. I know, it is like Hollywood, we have all these fantasies about what love is and then we come home and try to deal with our loves or our relationships or our lives, and it's never that, it's never that intense.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely not. The thing is, think about how many different kinds of people there are in the world. I don't there's too many people who think of themselves, 'Oh, I'm just like everybody else.' So it shouldn't matter. The fact is we're all very unique and all of our experiences and our pasts have made us who we are. It shouldn't be such a big deal to understand that your past and your experiences and everything that make up who you are is not going to be attractive to everybody else, the same way that not everybody else's personalities are going to be attractive to us.
Alissa Kriteman: Do you ever go into that a little bit deeper? It's almost like a metaphysical, or even spiritual, maybe psychological approach to say that you're actually attracting all the unresolved things in yourself? Do you guys ever get into that?
Kim Ellington: Absolutely. Even when we have a class situation, everybody learns differently and everybody's looking for something different from their classes. I definitely go one on one with people and start to see that. We have a saying that 'Seeing is not believing, believing is seeing.' So if you believe that things are a certain way that's what you're going to find in life. So if a guy's going out there thinking that all women are nasty, then that's what he's going to see. And the same way when women go out and they start saying there are no good guys out there, they're not going to find any, because they're limiting themselves with their own beliefs.
Alissa Kriteman: And you really get in there and delve into these limiting beliefs and that helps destruct this approach anxiety and helps men be more confident?
Kim Ellington: Absolutely. And then get them out there and practice them too because the only way to combat that is experience. The only way to get over your fear of having a drink thrown in your face is to go talk to people and find out that they don't throw drinks in your face.
Alissa Kriteman: Right, exactly. How do women feel? Do women ever know that they're being the quote-on-quote test-woman, or is it fluid?
Kim Ellington: I don't think any of them... I'm not quite sure. Do you mean when we go out and talk to people?
Alissa Kriteman: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's instances where guys are crashing and burning. Do you ever get a woman who's really adept at relationship stuff and she'll turn and say 'Are you trying to give me game or something?' Are women that tapped in now?
Kim Ellington: It does happen. But most women that I've talked to that are involved in self-improvement and social dynamics and just women on the street and even my own friends, most women feel like if men are trying to do what they can to make a better life for themselves they're all for it. In reality, things can be different. When they're actually presented with someone who's trying to talk to them who's not quite comfortable yet, women who aren't in-the-know don't necessarily see that's he's stuttering and shaking because he's nervous and trying to do everything to make himself look presentable and it isn't quite working for him yet. She just gets the creepy vibe. That guy was creepy. When in fact, he's not at all, he's not a creepy guy. He just trying to get to a point where he can present his happy, wonderful self to her rather than his nerves.
Alissa Kriteman: That's actually a really great message and why I wanted to talk to you because you really bring the tender aspect of what is going on with men to the light, they do want to connect with women. One message we can walk away with is, let's give guys a little bit of a break. They're doing the best they can. We don't need to be so critical or scoffing.
Kim Ellington: Yeah, we're not helping them. The thing is, women in general are not even helping ourselves find good guys if we're not giving anybody a chance to get that across. That being said, most women do not understand that men have approach anxiety. They make up a million different reasons why the men aren't coming over. It's news, to most women, that men are terrified, in general, to come talk to them.
Alissa Kriteman: Right, which is exactly why I like to bring up that point, and it's different to hear it from a woman, it really is. There's something a lot more digestible, hearing it from a woman. It's like there's a tenderness to it.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely. My heart goes out to them. This is why I'm so passionate about what I do. It kind of all started for me in high school, and even then in college. I've had a lot of geeky friends. I've been a geek in my life. We all have our little dorky moments in life for sure and I certainly appreciate and embrace mine. These men are fantastic and you get to know them and they are such great friends. They have so many friends, male and female, but that's not what they're looking for. Everybody wants a partner in life, in some form or another, whatever that means to them. They're looking for a sidekick, for someone to be there for them and to be there for. Anything we can do to help those guys be able to present that to the world. I would love if there was a way I could put up a banner that said 'Ladies, men have approach anxiety. They're scared. Cut them some slack for at least thirty seconds, a minute would even be better.'
Alissa Kriteman: Maybe that's what we'll do. Maybe you and I will create some t-shirts that say 'Love the approach anxiety.'
Kim Ellington: Love them through it.
Alissa Kriteman: Such good stuff. We're going to take a short break to support our sponsors. Listeners, I'd love for you to listen to these ads. These ads are created by my sponsors for my show and they really help me bring these great experts to you. So if you can support them I'd really appreciate it. This is Alissa Kriteman, I'm with Kim Ellington and we'll be right back to talk more about how we can be easier on our guys and love them through their approach anxiety and we'll be right back.
Alissa Kriteman: We're back, I'm Alissa Kriteman, we're talking to Kim Ellington, one of the only female coaches with the “Art of Charm.” Really fun stuff talking to you Kim. It's very illuminating to really hear it from a woman. The deep work you're doing with men to help them really get to the underneath part of their vibrance and their essence and their confidence so they can be out there in the world and dating women. We want that. It's so funny because it seems to me that some of the stuff is very much guys wanting to get to score. It's like, do they think that women don't want to have sex? Yeah, we want to have sex, we just want to be approached properly. So I really appreciate the work you're doing. So lets talk about this course you created for women called “Creating You Feminine Charm.”
Kim Ellington: Yes, one of my other passions.
Alissa Kriteman: Yeah, tell us about that. How did that come about?
Kim Ellington: After years, I was working with men exclusively for several years. I finally got to a point where I was absolutely comfortable, as I am now. I know men. I understand men. I know how to speak men. I know exactly what they mean when they talk now. I have a leg up. I have the answers to most questions women want to know. I decided with talking, you know, we all got together, and I said 'We've got this body of knowledge. I've been teaching men, I'd like to start teaching women.' Everything has happened from a male perspective. We thought it was a great idea and went from there.
Alissa Kriteman: So what are the key elements of what you teach women?
Kim Ellington: Well, most women want to know why they keep meeting jerks and how to meet Mr. Right instead of Mr. Wrong and they want to know what's gone wrong in their prior relationships. We go over the map of interactions explaining exactly what happens when two people meet. There is, as much as we don't want to think it's romantic, there is a science to how humans interact with each other. We start with that and that actually opens a lot of eyes where they start seeing, well this happened or this didn't happen and I understand now how to control things better. That's probably one of the most effective places for women to start to understand, in their own relationships, how to, not exactly control things, necessarily, but to understand what's going on so they don't feel lost in a relationship.
Alissa Kriteman: This is great because you're really dispelling a lot of confusion around romance and spontaneity. Even myself, delving into this topic I realize 'Oh my God! This is more methodical than I had any idea.' Not only methodical, but chemical. I'm reading this book called The Female Brain. Have you read that book? The Female Brain?
Kim Ellington: I have not. That sounds fantastic though.
Alissa Kriteman: You have to read it because it's all about the chemicals that get released when we meet somebody. So we wonder why these guys have approach anxiety because testosterone and oxytocin and all these chemicals are flooding their bodies. So basically you're breaking it down for women and saying, this is where you went wrong because... or maybe they went right, but, this is why it happened and it's not a mystery.
Kim Ellington: Right, exactly. I think women have this overlying perception that love and relationships have to be magic. I blame Hollywood. I blame romance novels. I blame everything we learned as kids. Hollywood and TVs tell us that you get married and you live happily ever after. They don't really focus on the fact that it's not magic. This stuff is not magic. People connect for reasons. As unromantic as it might sound just hearing me say, there's a scientific method to how people meet and interact. The fact of the matter is, when we can understand that, both men and women, and we can start connecting successfully more often, that's romantic to me. That's where success comes in. If we can start having more passion in our lives, not just in relationships, not just dating relationships, but in every relationship. If we can understand that, and have that more often in our lives, that's romance. That's where true happiness comes in because we're connecting as a people.
Alissa Kriteman: Wow!
Kim Ellington: I'm getting all fired up.
Alissa Kriteman: I feel like saying Amen! That's great! I love your passion. If we're not doing it.. and this is why I have my show, to bring this kind of information to women so we can all sort of rise up and say, yeah we have to take it. My show is all about empowering women so if we understand what's going on and can have more control and power in how things are going, and understanding and knowledge and wisdom, all the power to us.
Kim Ellington: I think a lot of women, a lot of times what happens, especially in society right now, women are no longer just sitting at home cooking and baking. Some of us do that out of choice, and that's great. I would love nothing more than to be a housewife and mother and take care of my man one day. That's my choice. But that being said, I have my career and I love my career, and I can't see myself giving that up. So what happens is women like me and any woman who has to get out there and work for herself, for her family, we end up in the provider protector role that's been traditionally male, though we are biologically wired to be nurturers. Most of us. Yes, there are exceptions, but generally speaking, the female, with our chemicals, we are wired to be the nurturers. So what ends up happening is we are providing and protecting all day long because that's the mindset that we're at. Like what we were talking about before, believing is seeing. We're in that protector provider mindset. We're going out there and we are attracting the wrong guys, the nurturers sometimes, or the jerks because we're looking to either have somebody that we can walk over or somebody overtake and overpower us rather than someone who compliments us. So what women have to do to empower themselves is to embrace that provider protector while they're in that role. If you're in that during the day at work, Heck yes! You've got to do what you need to do and be successful. But we can never forget that we are nurturers and we need to let our men, when we're searching for men, or when we're in a relationship, and maintaining a relationship with a man, his job, his biological wiring, his chemicals, are making him the provider protector. So we need to nurture that. Believe it or not, I know there's women out their shaking their heads right now because I've met some of them in my classes, but when we can successfully nurture our man in a way that makes him feel like a man and fill his role as a provider protector, that actually empowers us.
Alissa Kriteman: So how do we do that without being manipulative or deceptive? Because I am right there with you, with what you're saying. I think that term, alpha female, comes out of what you're saying, that women are more driven. We're taking care of ourselves and it leaves guys looking at us like, well, shit! What can I offer to her? She can take care of herself. And what you're saying is we've got to be able to say no, actually, I need you to provide for me because I need to get back into my feminine at the end of the day. So how do we do that without being off putting?
Kim Ellington: Yeah, I could list you a million little things. If your light bulb is out ask him to fix it. If your car door is jammed let him help you. I sit back and let men open doors for me. It sounds like a little thing but those are things that make a man feel good. You know what? Yeah, I can change that light bulb and I know it, and in my relationships, he knows it too. But the fact of the matter is, it feels good for him to be able to do it, and it feels good for me to let him take care of that. Joshua and I, Joshua is one of the other coaches with “The Art of Charm,” we were in Boston doing a seminar, and I looked at the camera equipment that we had had set up, and I just said, “Joshua, can you please help me figure this out because I just don't even know what I'm doing.” And he just grinned, and he said, “It just makes me feel so good when a woman asks me for help.” And that's a great example too, now that I think of it, of the fact that, we have this stuff demystified. Joshua knows more about social dynamics and human interactions than anybody that I know and he's just incredible, and I do too. And yet it does not demystify the way we relate to each other. It still makes him feel good even though he knows that that's what I was doing.
Alissa Kriteman: Well, it's kind of like, that's the body into which you were born. Like you were saying, there's nothing you can do to get away from the fact that, we are women and they are men. They want to be the hero. It's like genetics. So asking men for help and letting them help us doesn't need to mean that we're weak, which we somehow got into our psychology. I think that's one of the problems that women are dealing with is that we somehow look weak instead of being empowered by letting him be the provider protector, even though we know we could do it, but that's not the point. We don't want to be that all the time.
Kim Ellington: Exactly. That's exactly it. And we fit better, men and women fit better together when we're in some... And everyone can define those roles the way they want to, to fit them. Not everybody is going to want to clean and cook but there are ways to still be the nurturer and let him do the providing and protecting. Everybody has to communicate. That's the just of everything, isn't it? They have to communicate about how they each want to fulfill those roles. That's the only way. That's it. That's how you do it right there.
Alissa Kriteman: I love it! I study with this other woman, her name's Allison Armstrong, and she's got a lot of information for women on understanding men. This is really where my caution is as well. The more I learn about what it is to be an empowered woman, a big piece of it is understanding men. So we're going to take a quick break and when we come back I want to talk to you a little bit more about that. So again, listeners, check out these ads. My sponsors are amazing. They support me, I support you, let's all check it out. Really, listen to these ads. Our sponsors are amazing. And also, don't forget that you can send me an email at Alissa... A-L-I-S-S-A, @personallifemedia.com. You can also leave me a phone message, which I would love to hear your feedback, questions, comments, anything. The phone number is 206-350-5333. Leave me a message. I'm Alissa Kriteman. I'm with Kim Ellington, and we'll be right back to talk more about being in “Your Feminine Charm.”
Alissa Kriteman: We're back. I'm Alissa Kriteman. We're talking with Kim Ellington about some really great things, mainly how we can relax into our feminine and let our men be the heroes, one key point we're walking away with today. Kim, I want to talk to you more about this course, it sounds amazing, and you were just a fount of information. But I want to go a little bit deeper into some of the elements of this course, “Creating Your Feminine Charm.” You talk about charisma. What is charisma and how do we develop charisma as women, and why do we need to?
Kim Ellington: For empowerment. That is exactly it right there. Charisma is the way that we get other people to relate to us in a way that makes everybody more comfortable and able to cooperate and work together. So we need to develop that in ourselves, in a way that will help us to get the results that we want, not just in situations specifically, but in life in general. That's part of relationships, that's part of business, that's part of how we interrelate with other people in general.
Alissa Kriteman: So how would a woman develop charisma if it's not natural. I know there's some women who are definitely naturally charismatic and there's women who are very shy. So how do you support women that are very shy?
Kim Ellington: You know, just like with the men, what we were talking about earlier, getting over fear, so sometimes you just have to go do it. If a woman is very shy and has a hard time even looking people in the eye, then that's where she needs to start. She needs to start feeling human connection to other people. I do know shy people and I feel for them. But that can be changed, because we've worked with people before, and we will definitely work with people again. Getting out there and just making eye contact. That's really one of the first things that we do. We make them, as they're walking down the street, just hold eye contact with other people and make sure the other person looks away first. They're not allowed to look away until the other person does. Just like the men finding out that women aren't going to throw drinks in their face, these women can find out that they can make that quick connection because you know what usually happens? People smile. When you hold eye contact with them, people smile, and a smile is a beautiful, universal human connector. When two people smile at each other there's that instant connection that happens. That is where a shy woman can start building her soul and her confidence.
Alissa Kriteman: So how similar are the techniques, or the things that you teach men and women? It sounds like there's a lot of overlap.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely. Because we're not just saying, we're not giving people tactics. This is what you have to say and this is what you have to do in certain situations. We're teaching people how to relate to other human beings, and because it works for both men and women, a lot of the stuff does overlap. A lot of it is just breaking out of the self-imposed shell that can be some people's human condition. There's a lot of social rules that we feel, there's a lot of social pressure that both men and women feel to not talk to other people, to not look at other people. The rule that I go by is if it's something that you do because they said you shouldn't do it, or nobody does it. You really need to look at that and figure out, specifically, for you, why is it that you are not doing it? Why are you not looking other people in the eye? Why are you not going out there? If the answer is because I've never done it, or because I'm scared of it, or I'm shy, then we can each start addressing all those different situations to help correct them.
Alissa Kriteman: Wow. I really appreciate that. It sort of takes it out of that whole pick-up realm where there's that rote, you have to touch her here and distract her there, and then say that thing. I don't know how guys track all of that information. It's something you and “The Art of Charm” are more interested in really getting down to the basics of where people are at, how they got there. Then looking at, hey, this is pretty general for most people. This is how human beings interact. Let's look at your particular flavor and what you need to work on, versus putting a Band-Aid on the thing and saying, this is going to work for everything.
Kim Ellington: That is a beautiful way to put that. That's exactly it. What we do is teach people why humans interact the way they do. They can figure out, once that you understand why you're acting the way you're acting and I'm acting the way I'm acting. You can figure out how to create an interaction on your own. If you understand why, then you can create your own how. We don't need to teach you how. We don't need to give you that Band-Aid because you're not going to need it. There's not going to be a wound anymore once you understand why everybody acts the way they do.
Alissa Kriteman: That's right. The creativity comes in the how.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely, yes. That's where your personality start to shine.
Alissa Kriteman: Wow, I really like that. So who is more difficult to work with, men or women?
Kim Ellington: Oh, it's definitely individual. Women, in class sessions, women tend to be a little bit more, they sit back and they want something proven to them first. It's a little bit different, there is some gender that comes in to play because I'm a woman. They want to know why they should trust me. Does this woman actually know what she's talking about? When we get into the first fifteen minutes of teaching and they start seeing the world open up and some of their questions answered already just through teaching them how people interact with each other, then that's pretty easy. Most of the men come to us and they're ready. They're more data driven, they're ready. They come into class and they want some data. They say, you know, they go in there with that mindset, that it's time. It's time to learn, it's time to change my life. Women want a little more proof, generally, right from the beginning that I know what I'm talking about, but it comes pretty quickly. I don't worry about too much because I know how men interact and I know how women act. I am one of them. I am the same way in a new situation.
Alissa Kriteman: You know what you're talking about.
Kim Ellington: I do. I do, and I just love it. I love sharing it and helping other people understand because it's just creating a better world for our future, for everybody's future children. If people can start interacting better and communicating instead of fighting, instead of having men versus women, and men don't understand me, and women are crazy, that doesn't get us anywhere. That's why our state of politics are the way they are right now. It democrats versus republicans instead of remembering that we're human, and that means there's a lot of gray area. It's not black and white, and when we can come, and take my black and your white, and can put them together and make a beautiful shade of gray, in fact probably a hundred different shades of gray together, that's where the beauty is. That's where life starts.
Alissa Kriteman: I love, love, love your passion. It's so fun to talk to you.
Kim Ellington: I'm laughing at myself. I do, I get so worked up. There's nothing better than helping people communicate with each other, and the fact that I can do it, and I learn more every day. Because every single person that meet and talk to teaches something to me about them and about myself and it's fantastic. Alissa, I love it.
Alissa Kriteman: Oh my God. You are so inspiring. You know, we are coming to the end of our time, but I want to ask you some quick final questions.
Kim Ellington: Sure, sure.
Alissa Kriteman: What is the highlight, like one piece of advice, if you could leave with women? What is a one key piece you want to say?
Kim Ellington: For women in dating and relationships, what we need to do is to work on becoming more approachable. Our body language, very often, is telling people something different than we want it to. We're thinking maybe we're shy, we're scared. We're unsure. But what our body languages are saying is stay away from me. That is a huge problem for most women. They don't understand that they're not being inviting. Why don't the good guys come up to you? Well, because you've got your arms crossed and your brow furrowed and you're not smiling, so you're scary-looking. He's out there. He might like to come over, but you're not actually being inviting, and that's a huge thing. Women, we need to step out of our way, our own way, in that manner.
Alissa Kriteman: So how inviting looks is head up, eyes open...
Kim Ellington: A smile. Men have told me for years now, women smiling, not huge, it doesn't have to be a great big clown smile, but a smile is one invitation, one way of opening themselves up for introduction that men understand.
Alissa Kriteman: You know what just I realized in this moment? Like all of this stuff, pick-up and what-not, they're trying to get the invitation from women.
Kim Ellington: Yes ma'am.
Alissa Kriteman: Oh my God, I just realized that. With all the like grabbing her hand and do this thing and look this way, and you know. That's what they're looking for. So if we give them the invitation, it cuts through all of that weirdness.
Kim Ellington: Yes it does.
Alissa Kriteman: I'm so proud of you! You're inspiring us to be the invitation that men are looking for and understanding what's going on with men and how to be that. I just really appreciate that. I do want to ask you one quick question. You said you're like an expert on men speak. Tell us like one or two phrases that a man is saying “X” but women think it's this. Do you know what I'm saying?
Kim Ellington: Well, give me an example of something a man would say and I'll tell you what he's really saying. I'm not quite sure.
Alissa Kriteman: Okay. I would say a guy says I'm interested in you... Okay. Here's one. It's not something he's saying, it's something he's doing. Men do. Okay, so you meet at a club or you meet at a party, and you have a really nice connection, and then you give him this phone number and he doesn't call you. He doesn't call you after the three days or however long they say. He doesn't call you. Do you call him? Or do you let it go?
Kim Ellington: I let it go.
Alissa Kriteman: Why?
Kim Ellington: Because if he didn't call, or he didn't text, he's not interested. When a man, generally speaking, when a man wants something, whether it be a woman or anything else, he goes out and gets it. Now, there are instances where a guy is shier and he doesn't feel like he's been introduced. But at that point, it depends on the woman, but generally, if the man is not taking the initiative to call me after getting my number, then that is not a man that I feel can lead me through life the way that I want to be led. So to me that's a filter. That's who I call a filter. He has filtered himself out of someone that could be a partner for me. Now, if he comes back later, there might have been something that happened, right? You know, his leg got cut off or he was running to the Empire State Building and got hit by a taxi, it can happen. I'm not saying that I'm never going to talk to him again or never give him a second chance if it comes up and we meet face to face. But in general, I just let that one go.
Alissa Kriteman: Oh, you're so hilarious. I'm scanning my mind trying to think of more, because this is the stuff, maybe what we'll do is have the women call in or write in and you can be our like man speak, man do decipherer.
Kim Ellington: Sure, sure. I'll tell you what though, a lot of times the big thing to remember for women is that men are pretty logical. They're pretty data driven, and usually what they say is what they mean. We, as women, because we look at things from so many different angles, in so many different ways, we tend to ascribe more meaning to what they say than what they actually mean. Like if a guy says, 'I just need more time,' we're thinking why does he need more time? Did I do something wrong? What did I do? It probably just means he needs more time. Men, they think in social interactions, they think slower and respond slower than women do because they haven't spent their whole lives analyzing everything the way that we have. So it takes them a little bit more time.
Alissa Kriteman: It's so funny, too, because with some of the other teachers I've worked with, there's actually a genetic reason why guys are just so straightforward and we're assessing everything. It's like in our genetic makeup.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely.
Alissa Kriteman: We just have to have more fun.
Kim Ellington: Exactly. There's nothing wrong with it. That's what I think a lot of people get caught up on, Alissa. They think that, because men think women are crazy because they're emotional. Women think men are too hard to deal with because they're logical instead of emotional. What has to happen is communication. I'm not going to understand what it's like to be a man. I can speak man, but I can't, I will never react like one, no matter how much I live with men and react with them in my life. I'm never going to be one. The same way men are never going to be women. So what we need to do is stop being angry at each other for being different and just ask each other what we really mean by what we're saying or doing. It's communication. It's a beautiful thing.
Alissa Kriteman: Yeah, and also like you said, embracing the differences. Guys aren't necessarily going to want to listen to our “la la la la la la la” right when they come home. There's that transition time and really just understanding these differences and embracing them, like you said, makes for such a better world. I also appreciate what you're saying about how, if we become better parents we're going to have more well-adjusted children who know how to communicate and interact.
Kim Ellington: Yeah, there comes the new world.
Alissa Kriteman: Exactly, we're birthing the new world. I love it. I love it. Well, you are great, Kim, Thank You so much for being on the show. I really appreciate your wisdom and the hard work that you're doing with men and women everywhere to really help create a better planet.
Kim Ellington: That's the way I see it. This is why I'm here. Let's make it happen, people.
Alissa Kriteman: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your passion and conviction.
Kim Ellington: Thank you for your time and your show. This is great. I know you have a lot of listeners and I'm absolutely excited to know that they're out there and I'm not the only one. We're all trying to change things and make it better.
Alissa Kriteman: Yeah. Well, maybe we'll have a special just for women, “Creating our Feminine Charm” powwow in New York.
Kim Ellington: Absolutely. That and a glass of wine, honey, you've got yourself a date.
Alissa Kriteman: So listeners, join us next week on “Just for Women.” We're going to talk with Jordan Harbinger, did I say his name right?
Kim Ellington: Absolutely.
Alissa Kriteman: Another expert coach with “The Art of Charm.” I'm very looking forward to that one as well.
Kim Ellington: Yeah, and if I can just put in a plug for ourselves, I work with these guys for a reason. I know a lot of people in the pick-up community, I know a lot of people in the self-help community and I choose to work with these guys for a reason and I won't work with anybody else the way that I do here. I have lots of people that I absolutely love, these guys are the real deal. They've got their heads on straight and they're trying to do the same thing that we are.
Alissa Kriteman: Nice! Nice plug! I can't wait to talk to Jordan!
Kim Ellington: Yeah, well you already talked to Ben. They're fabulous. These guys are great!
Alissa Kriteman: Yeah. It sounds like a lot of integrity, a lot of heart, and a lot of just like straight talking truth, like you said. You know, I'm from the east coast, and people definitely shoot from the hip there and I always appreciate that, but it sounds like, let's let that be the norm. Tell each other really what's going on.
Kim Ellington: Yeah, have some heart-to-hearts every day, every eye-to-eye contact. Make a connection.
Alissa Kriteman: You're fabulous! Well, that brings us to the end of the show. Thank you everyone for listening, for texts and transcripts of the show, and other shows in the Personal Life Media network. Please visit our website at personallifemedia.com for a copy of my book, Alissa's Four Cornerstones to Living Your Dreams. Just go to my website, sacredspa.org and click on the book cover icon. I'm your host, Alissa Kriteman, always expanding your choices here on “Just For Women: Dating, Relationships, and Sex.” Tune in next week for more juicy news you can use.
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