Episode 18 - Embodying The Erotic Journey with Kutira Decosterd, founder of the Kahua Institute

Embodying The Erotic Journey with Kutira Decosterd, founder of the Kahua Institute (with her husband Raphael), award winning musician, spiritual environmental activist, known for her travel in the Far East where she received esoteric training from Masters in Tantra & Yoga.

Announcer:  This program is intended for mature audiences only.

[Music]

Francesca Gentille: Welcome to Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra, bringing you the soul of sex. I’m your host Francesca Gentille, and with me today is Kutira Decosterd, who teaches with her beloved husband of 15 years, Raphael Sharp.

[Music]

Kutira Decosterd: There maybe something intimate which could stimulate your heart; it could stimulate your depths of finding out more about who you are and who your partner is. Yeah, you can call it courage, but when it boils down, it’s about intimacy. When I see the vulnerability in a man, I fall in love with that man. Surrender is the key to ecstasy.

Francesca Gentille: We are sitting here in her newly furnished temple looking out at the brilliant blue sea of Maui. This temple is candlelit; it’s exquisitely decorated with carvings, luxurious carpets and burnished woods.

Beautiful temple goddesses surround us, but none more beautiful than Kutira herself, founder of the Kahua Hawaiian Institute, established in 1985 with her husband Raphael. It’s an off the grid retreat centre, an ecologically sustainable community of students from around the world.

Kutira is not only wise and brilliant and very spiritual, but she is a spiritual environmental activist. She is a leader of spiritual retreats in places such as Maui, Bali and Bhutan for individuals, couples and women. She is also an award winning musician with her husband. Of over 15 CDs including some of my favorites, ‘Music to disappear into’, a wonderful Tantric blend of pieces that just transport me, when I listen to them, into a place of love and connection.

‘The Calling’, which is a Hawaiian Shamanic album, that I often use in rituals and temples to take people on journeys into another world. She has DVDs as well, so just a multi-talented woman that I am so delighted to have with us here today. Welcome Kutira.

Kutira Decosterd: Aloha.

Francesca Gentille: Kutira, there is so many things that you are and that you know and I want to know about each of them. I read on your website that what you teach is Embodied Spirituality, and I know that you have a strong background in Tantra that goes all the way to Osho, really the founder of Western Tantra today. What would you say Embodied Spirituality is?

Kutira Decosterd: Embodied Spirituality is exactly what it says. You bring the spirit also into your body, you embody it with your temple, your body is a temple. In many of the religions, especially in today, your Christian tradition, to embody the spirit also in our physical body is not so taught, and is not even honored as much as we really should. Because our body is simply an extension of the large body which is our mother Gaia, the Earth.

Francesca Gentille: So, our body is our temple, it’s sacred, but like you said we are not raised like that. So, if I want to bring the sense of the sacred body into my life today or with my beloved, my lover, how would I do that?

Kutira Decosterd: When you honor your body and you love your body. You know that your body is the temple who holds your spirit, and you love your beloved’s body and see it as a divine vehicle of his spirit, then your body is so honored, and your spirit is embodied in that.

Francesca Gentille: So, what you are saying is pretty radical, I mean this is very radical. This is a huge shift in the way that I might think that people might think. Normally, I think when we look at a body, we think, “Wow, it’s that hot or maybe that’s not hot.” I’m thinking of it on a scale of one to 10, I’m not thinking, “Wow, this is a divine spirit. This body is an amazing vehicle for their soul.”

So, you are saying that if I just start to think like that, I’m going to do different things, say different things? What happens when I shift my mind like that?

Kutira Decosterd: Oh of course, just imagine you are a young guy and you see a pretty girl walking by, what are you looking? You see her, “Hey, is she shapey, does she have nice breasts, nice legs?” That’s what you first look at, but then how about if you look and what’s behind that or deeper? When you look into somebody’s eyes and you maybe passed by the looks, and you go deeper and you meet what’s beyond the physical.

Then you come to spirit, and that is really when your journey starts and when your excitement can raise much higher, you fly much higher if you can go for spirit. Of course, you embrace the body as well.

Francesca Gentille: I like that you said you could go much higher, or your spirit, it goes higher. What I’m feeling when you say that is, not only that sense of maybe the heart opening or this deep spiritual connection. Are you also saying that my sexual connection, our sexual connection is going to feel better? It’s going to be maybe more intense when we are in that deeper way connected to spirit?

Kutira Decosterd: Well, if you just only make love to the body, what do you get out of it? Well, first of all where does your orgasm happen? Do you think just down there? OK, it may start there, you can stimulate it, you can arouse it, but your orgasm happens in your mind, in your brain. Your orgasm is much larger when you allow spirit to be part of it. The body is just a vehicle to God and Goddess.

Francesca Gentille: I love that idea, that the body can be this container, this vehicle to God, and to Goddess. When we come back after our break, I would love to talk with you more about how we get there, and also how some of these retreats to some of these incredibly magical places can help people tune in, because it’s not always easy in our everyday world. Help them tune in to that, the magic of spirit, the depth of spirit after we come back from a break and a word from our sponsors.

[Commercial Break]

Francesca Gentille: Welcome back to Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra. With me today is Kutira, that amazing priestess, founder of the Kahua Hawaiian Institute. Beautiful musician, guide to embodied spirituality. We were just talking about what is that embodied spirituality, and what we actually get out of it? What women get out of it, what men get out of it and more of how do we get to that divine – like why do we want it and how do we get there?

Kutira Decosterd: Well, why do we want it? Just imagine, you have a relationship and you have good sex, it’s fantastic. Well, ask yourself, is there something more than just sex? Is there maybe something infinite which could stimulate your heart; it could stimulate your depths of finding out more about who you are and who your partner is?

Now, for that, in your lovemaking, when you allow to open your heart, and here comes something which maybe tickles you, surrender is the key to ecstasy. When you not just surrender with your body, you also allow to surrender with your entire being, who you are. Then I guarantee you, your lovemaking is now going into what we call Tantra.

Francesca Gentille: That whole surrender concept. Now, sometimes we think that a girl surrenders. That a man does a woman or he is going to do it right or be this amazing lover and take her on a journey, but that’s not what you’re talking about. You’re talking about the man as well as the woman surrendering and opening. Could you say more about what that is and how people – sounds like a lot of courage to get there.

Kutira Decosterd: Yeah, you can call it courage, but when it boils down, it’s about intimacy. Surrender into intimacy, into me see. You let somebody see you, and if somebody really sees you, you may feel very vulnerable. Now, that’s a big thing for a man specially, being vulnerable.

But men out there, if you’re listening right now, no matter how old you are, I tell you what’s a turn on for every woman, when you can be vulnerable. When I see the vulnerability in a man, I fall in love with that man.

Francesca Gentille: That vulnerability, sometimes I’ve heard men have a concern that if they show a sense of vulnerability, that it’s weak or they are afraid that if they cry, a woman will get – almost be angry at them, that they are not being in charge. Can you give me an example of something that would be vulnerable, that a man would do or say that would just totally open a woman’s heart and arouse her vulva? I mean just have her melt.

Kutira Decosterd: Well, about vulnerability. It comes with tradition, it comes with religion, it comes with the culture and how a mother raises her family or father raises their children. So, if you are a boy, you cannot cry, but you know what, that’s old, we know about it. Of course can a man cry, a man when he can share his tears, they are as valuable and especially that arouses a woman more in her heart, then openness happens.

I personally feel, when a man can share his deep sensitivity and his femininity, is much more arousing to me than his masculinity. Which -- of course he is the man, he is masculine, that’s a given, but can he be feminine? Can you be feminine who listens out there?

Francesca Gentille: When we say feminine, we are not asking our beloved necessarily to put on a dress and high heels and make-up, that’s not what we are saying. We are saying, that sense of sweetness…

Kutira Decosterd: The receptivity, the sense of being available, the sense of being there. You know, a turn on for a woman is also when the man is just present. He doesn’t have to fix anything, just being there and has an open heart. Well, of course, for the woman the same, the woman has an open heart too, then your lovemaking is becoming so much sweeter and deeper and spiritual.

Francesca Gentille: This is something that is very much supported by going sometimes – at least to start going away to a retreat. Going away to a workshop or something, it’s like if you wanted to be a great Chef, and all you knew how to do now is open a packet of something and heat it on the stove, but you wanted to be a great Chef, you wouldn’t expect that you would just become that, because you wanted to.

You’d want to have some training; you’d want to get some education on that. I want to talk a little bit more about how we can get that education, what happens at a retreat or at a workshop, and maybe how someone can assess whether or not they are ready for one, after we come back from a break and a word from our sponsors.

[Commercial Break]

Francesca Gentille: Welcome back to Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra, bringing you the soul of sex. Today with my fabulous guest Kutira, who has the Kahua Hawaiian Institute, wonderful music, has taught since 1985. However many years that is, don’t ask me to do the math right now. Who is now leading spiritual retreats in Maui, Bali and Bhutan, and I was just talking about how do we know? How do we know in our opening up to Tantra and sacred sexuality that now is a good time to go on a retreat and go on a workshop?

Kutira Decosterd: When is a good time? A good time is when you really feel the need of going deeper or think now, what’s going on in my life or I would love to really devote some time to find out about myself. Of course, it would be wonderful if you go to a retreat where you can go with your partner if you have one, because especially the embodied spirituality retreats or if you are students of Tantra, it’s wonderful that is about partnership.

When you go to a retreat, you can learn what you cannot learn in books. You can read many books, but then comes a time when you need a teacher, a teacher who can guide you, a teacher who embodies these teachings. For me personally, I am teaching since over 30 years, and my retreats are always a highlight also for myself, as I am the teacher, I’m also the student.

I learn from everybody each time, and our retreats especially in Maui are focused on the body and spirit. The retreats in Bali – and Bali is an amazing island where the spirit is truly alive. It’s thick in the air; you can breathe it in the temples. What we have lost in the west, we really don’t have so much of the rituals or churches anymore. In Bali, it’s alive and it’s wonderful to go right there, because we absorb it through the energies in the air.

We absorb it in with our breath, and then of course the highlights in my teachings. When I can take people to Bhutan, into Tantric Buddhism, and you imagine you have the possibility to go and sit in a temple which is over a 1000 years old.

Where have been so many Pujas, and Puja means ceremonies and chanting and rituals, just sitting in that, where the enlightenment has happened, and you’re sitting on that rock, where they come and worship through thousands of years, it affects you, it penetrates you from the souls of your feet up into your heart and opens your mind to enormous insights of who you are.

Francesca Gentille: I love that you talk about that, your retreats and a good retreat or a good workshop would help someone find out more about themselves, because if we are going to be that amazing embodied spiritual lover, it really does come from knowing about ourselves.

If more of me is present to me, then I can be more present to you. I love that you talked about the sense of the different cultural places, whether it’s Bali or Maui or Bhutan having energy, having a beauty. Our western world lacks in beauty, so when we are in these places, ideas come to our head, new ideas. That when we come back home, we can start to bring these back into our lives and maybe look at our bedroom, look at our apartment or our home in a new way.

It’s that part of what happens after we go to a retreat, in terms of how we integrate it back into our day-to-day lives.

Kutira Decosterd: Kahua means the power and the wisdom from within the source. Everybody has it all inside, it’s a matter how you access it, and certain places are helpful. Certain pilgrimages are helping you to find that place within faster. Traveling to places like Bali, Bhutan or Maui, where you retreat into that specific energy can be a very great help.

Francesca Gentille: Could you say a little bit more about pilgrimage or retreat? What does it mean to be on a pilgrimage, what does it mean to retreat and what would I get out of it? What would we, the listening audience, get out of that experience?

Kutira Decosterd: Well, mostly when you go to a place, when you travel, you go as a tourist, and you go to a nice hotel and you want entertainment and you maybe want to have some hotels with karaoke bars or some good movies and let’s get it on. Now, if you come to a retreat or a pilgrimage with me, that’s not really what I’m going after.

What I’m going after is find those places which are called monastery or temples, where hundreds and thousands of people have worshiped to spirit, to God. I’m not necessarily interested in sitting in a hotel, I’m maybe sitting on a horse and riding up mountains or I may have to walk through a monastery for a day, and then sit in the silence and sit in the presence of what this place is about.

That’s when you may have an insight, because with the silence of your mind, you can listen the words of your heart.

Francesca Gentille: The words of the heart. I’ve heard it said that there are 40,000 synaptic neurons in the heart. More synaptic neurons than in any other part of the body other than the brain, and that the ancients believe that the true knowledge is in the heart, not the brain. That the brain is meant to be in service of the heart, so we have kind of a crazy culture when the brain leads the way, when the heart is meant to lead the way.

Is there a practice that someone could do at home that would help them turn off the brain, that busy chattery brain and come more deeply into their heart?

Kutira Decosterd: You know, it’s absolutely right. Our heart is more intelligent than our brain. However, the path to access is the challenge and yes, there are meditations, there are practices who help us to quiet down the mind, who help us to find a way to listen to the intelligence of the heart, of a compassionate heart.

Now, for me personally, what we teach in our retreat is the control of the breath, of really understanding if you know how to slow down your breath and you become aware about your conscious breathing, that you have a way to also slow down your thinking. It’s not an easy way to just say, “OK, I’m going to have a quiet mind.” You have to practice and you have to give yourself the space to go into a place where you can learn about that.

Francesca Gentille: So, quietness is helpful. Starting to be conscious of the breath, most of us just breathe. We don’t know, I would think, “Am I breathing now, am I not breathing, how am I breathing?” So, to become conscious of how I’m breathing, a quiet place, some place to practice which could be a retreat.

Are there other ways or other practices? Is some of this on your DVDs where someone could practice or learn a little bit more about this conscious breathing?

Kutira Decosterd: Yes, as a matter of fact, we have a wonderful teaching CD, four CDs where we introduce people into some of the practices of the breath and meditation of quieting the mind. Also on the end, number four is a wonderful one hour Tantric ritual where we guide consciously merging with each other, with the different practices of breathing.

The ultimate breathing, the circular breathing, and it’s really the breath who can connect. I highly recommend for those who would like to try and of course, if they like to go deeper, then they can look for a good teacher. A good teacher you find to see what is the teacher’s talk? Does he walk the talk? That’s one thing you may want to look at.

Then look what’s the lineage of that teacher. Where did she or he learned, who was their teacher? What are their values, the values of sacred sexuality? Bottom line, if you feel good in the presence of that teacher, if you know your heart is happy in the presence of that teacher, and you can trust your heart, because you learn how to listen to your heart. Probably you found a good teacher.

Francesca Gentille: I want to thank you so much Kutira for joining us today on Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra, and giving us those pearls of following the wisdom of the heart, looking for the breath, the embodied spirituality, presence, the courage to be vulnerable. Some ideas on finding a teacher and new places to retreat to and to be on pilgrimage, it has just been delightful.

Kutira Decosterd: I have as much enjoyed it, and thank you Francesca for your wonderful questions. It was just so easy sitting here on a red cushy couch in my temple, and I hope you come back, and spirit brings you back to Hawaii very fast again.

Francesca Gentille: I hope so too, and if you would like to find out more about Kutira’s retreats, more about coming to Maui, which is a gorgeous place, more information about her music? You can find that out at www.personallifemedia.com with two Ls in the middle, there will also be transcripts from the show and all kinds of connections and pictures and URLs for everything that Kutira does. I hope that you’d join us again at Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra.

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