Episode 23 - Erotic Talk: Talk Sacred to Me, Baby with Bonnie Gabriel, MA in Counseling Psychology, lecturer inspiring audiences for over 15 years, author of “The Fine Art of Erotic Talk; How to Entice & Enchant Your Lover with Words.”

Erotic Talk: Talk Sacred to Me, Baby with Bonnie Gabriel, MA in Counseling Psychology, lecturer inspiring audiences for over 15 years, author of "The Fine Art of Erotic Talk; How to Entice & Enchant Your Lover with Words."

Announcer:  This program is intended for mature audiences only.

[Music]

Francesca Gentille: Welcome to Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra. I'm your host, Francesca Gentille, and with my today is Bonnie Gabriel. Bonnie is a writer, a professional speaker, a lecturer best known for “The Fine Art of Erotic Talk: How to Entice and Enchant your Lover with Words.” She’s been inspiring audiences for over fifteen years, and I am very excited to have bonnie with us today to share her sex talk secrets.

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Bonnie Gabriel: Actually, for people that are just beginning to date, even in the early stages of dating, there are ways to sensualize your conversation and create that kind of a bond and energy between yourselves.

I know, also, even if you're out on the dance floor, “you're a great dancer,” “I love the way you dance,” or “I love the way I feel in your arms.” Or, “I get so hot when you hold me like that.”

Fantasy area is one that people need to tread very gently, because many of our fantasies have a taboo aspect to them. And if they were to be acted out in real life they can create real serious taboo for people, but as long as they stay in the fantasy realm, I feel that they need not be judged and it's fun and healthy just to share them as fantasies.

Well, I think first of all, not making them wrong, letting the partner know what they love about their lovemaking, validating them first, and then saying "I love what you're doing" and “you know what would even make me feel more yummy,” it just, just gently, “tell me as you look at me what turns you on.”

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Francesca Gentille: Bonnie, I first want to get to the heart and spirit of sacred sex talk, but I think before we get there, we need to talk a little bit about what erotic talk is and how do we even start, so could you let us know about that?

Bonnie Gabriel: Absolutely. Erotic talk is any verbal expression of passion or love, and it combines the most raunchy, lusty expressions, we call that “talking dirty,” but that's only a very small part of a much more vast array. I sort of liken it to the keys on the piano—we have the lust, we have the bass, and then you have the very spiritual and reverent at the higher treble clefs. But in between, we have many other mired ways of talking erotically. In fact, I have a description on my website, I call it your “daily verbal aphrodisiac,” where you get a daily dose of sensual suggestions and erotic inspirations, and you can express your appreciation and validation of your partners lovemaking erotically, you can give sensual feedback on how they make you feel, you can even erotically nurture your partner, which I think is really important and sometimes overlooked. There's erotic fantasy and role playing, erotic power play, exchanging surrender and dominance, and, of course, very important erotic devotion and communion. So they're all, as I said, parts of this expression of your sensual feelings with words.

Francesca Gentille: I want to talk more about some of the things, everything erotic, I want to talk about it all, erotic fantasy to erotically nurturing to erotically communing, but first, for many of us, talking in bed can be a little bit difficult, sometimes even making a sound is difficult, and how do we get from maybe not talking to someone who can communicate. What are some of the steps we might try out?

Bonnie Gabriel : Well, I always say start gently. [laughs] When I was teaching many workshops and classes on this subject, I get people in my class that have performance anxiety because their partner suddenly said to them "Talk dirty to me, baby" and they just, of course, they clammed up, first of all. It was not something they were experienced doing. And second, I think to talk back in a lusty manner you have to be really turned on in that place, otherwise it's inauthentic.

So I say, start really gently, for example, you can try something which I call "Erotic questioning" which is stroking your partner in either two different parts of their body, or in two different ways, maybe with light touch and then with firmer pressure, then asking them, “which feels better, this or this?" and that is so much easier to do than having to start to talk in sort of a raunchy, lusty fashion, and it's very useful and effective because first of all, it lets your partner know you're interested in fine tuning your love making so that you give them the greatest pleasure, secondly, you get feedback from your partner and learn how to love them more effectively for them, and thirdly, it's so much easier to ask a question than to have to express something that's going on inside yourself, so that is an easier way to begin.

Then there's the second part of that which is called “erotic feedback.” If you are the recipient of your partners lovemaking, it's helpful to let them know what’s pleasing and saying, “oh, when you touch me right there, that feels so good" or “the pressure right now is just perfect,” “I love the way you're making me feel." Again, that's gentle and it's easy and it moves you slowly into the deeper forms of verbal erotica.

Francesca Gentille: Hmmm, that does sound good. That little "hmmm" I just did is an example too, we don't need a whole paragraph, “oh it feels so nice when you touch me on my left nipple and circle it slowly”--sometimes feedback can just be “mmm, that’s good...” [laughs]

Bonnie Gabriel: Exactly, just a little moan helps.

Francesca Gentille: And, if I'm someone who loves to hear the words, I know that there are sensual people, they really like all kinds of touch, there are energy people that the intention of the thoughts that someone’s literally thinking and the tension that they bring to sexuality is so important. There are people who love the smell, people who love the tastes, and there are some people that are aural--and that's not oral--it's aural, that really love the sounds and the words and if someone in our audience is one of those aural people, they love it when there are either a lot of sounds or they’re being talked to or their partner currently does not do that, how can they support or encourage their partner in a really loving way to, or even let them know with them feeling safe letting their partner know that they're one of those aural people, that really want to hear the words, they really want to hear the sounds.

Bonnie Gabriel: Yeah. Well, I think first of all, not making them wrong, first of all letting their partner know what they love about their lovemaking, validating them first and then saying "and I love what you're doing and you know what would even make me feel even more yummy is if you could just gently tell me as you look at me what turns you on" if they're very visual "as you look at me, what about my body is turning you on right now?" Or if they are more into movement, you ask them if they notice when you're moving your body, what kind of movement is especially pleasing and so, find out what their main sensory mode is and use words that match that. Or if they're into smell, again, use the words that have to do with scent, "I love your scent" kind of lead that way and see if they respond that way.

Francesca Gentille: I want to talk more about some of the different ways that we can inspire our partners to speak to us, to communicate to us if we're an aural person, or just add that to our sex life because it really enriches it. After we come back from the break...

[commercial break]

Francesca Gentille : Welcome back to Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra, bringing you the soul of sex. Today we are talking with Bonnie Gabrielle, the talk sacred sexy to me baby, talk erotic to me baby expert, the sex talk professor and who also has an MA in counseling psychology. And Bonnie, we were just talking about some of those steps to either, in a new relationship to bring this kind of talk in, or in an ongoing relationship, and then I wanted us to go a little deeper into that list that you gave us in the beginning about sensual feedback, erotic nurturing, erotic fantasy, erotic power play, erotic devotion and communing. Could you give us some more of your great--

Bonnie Gabriel: Absolutely...for people that are just beginning to date, even in the early stages of dating, there are ways to sensualize your conversation and create that kind of a bond and energy between yourselves. And there are two steps to it--one of them has to do with validation and appreciation, but it's the expression of that appreciation that makes a difference. For example, if you really think your partner has beautiful eyes or beautiful hair, the typical thing you'd probably say is “oh you have gorgeous eyes.” Well, if you want to make it more personal, instead of saying “YOU have gorgeous eyes,” you say “I love your eyes,” because when you use the I word, it's opening up your heart chakra and connecting you more to them. And even more deeply as you get better, open up more by letting them know what this quality about them, how that affects you, what impact it has, so even instead of “I love your eyes” or even “you have beautiful eyes,” “I love your eyes” is the second level, the third level is "When you look at me like that, I just melt." So again, letting them know how they impact you personally is very important. Or another one, using the sense of smell, when "mmmm, that’s a great perfume" or instead of that you could say "I love your perfume" or "mmm, I love your scent, I could breathe you in like this all night," making it more sensual.

Francesca Gentille :I really love that there’s such a difference, it's like, where as you're saying each one, it's a deeper and deeper level of the sensual and the erotic, and I imaging that we can go even deeper and say, "when I breathe your scent, my labia gets wet."

Bonnie Gabriel: Yes, you can be very--

Francesca Gentille: It's hot--

Bonnie Gabriel: Absolutely! “I get all wet when I”--exactly, you can let them know it, just how powerful that impact is on you. And also, even if you're out on the dance floor—“you’re a great dancer,” “I love the way you dance,” or “I love the way that I feel in your arms” or, “I get so hot when you hold me like that.” Again, you can start that and keep moving, in public!

Francesca Gentille: Woo hoo! And imagining male or female, we want to check in a little bit that these are raging generalities here but in general, men like to hear more of the graphic, sexual erotics, so if I were to say "When you look at me like that, my nipples get hard and my labia lips get wet and Ii can hardly wait to go home and rip off your clothes" that my beloved might really enjoy hearing that, but I might enjoy hearing "when you look at me like that, my heart opens and I just feel like I'm with the woman I was always meant to be with , the woman I've always dreamed of." This is kind of a raging generality, I'd imagine many women are like me, they want to hear from their man what it is that opens his heart, what it is that inspires his love, and then a man often wants to hear what opens our erotic nature, what inspires us to be sexual.

Bonnie Gabriel: That's such a good point, I'm so glad you said that, that is certainly true in my experience also. So I think we need to really let our partner know that and have them let us know what turns them on and respecting that there are differences there and honoring them and if you can give to each other in the way that they need to be given to, not in the way WE want, just being aware that there is a difference, and that's very important.

Francesca Gentille: And that is a good point, and when I said that they are generalities, I think that there are exceptions--there certainly are women who like to hear more graphic terms, “when I look at you like that, my penis gets hard or my cock just swells.” There are some women who would love to hear that and some who wouldn't.

Bonnie Gabriel : Well, you know, what I think it’s part of, for some women, and certainly for me it's true, it's how warmed up and how hot you are. If you're feeling just a little bit romantic and your sexual juices aren't quite flowing yet, then I think I like to hear more of the heart energy. Once that arousal is really high, then I don't mind hearing the more graphic, so I think it depends on that continuum.

Francesca Gentille: You bring up a good point how this all relates to tantra, because in tantra, it's believed that the man’s sexual energy runs or connects, it starts in the genitalia, it starts in the phallus, and then it moves up to the heart, where a woman's sexual energy starts in the heart and then moves down to her genitals. So if a man wants a woman to arouse, he would speak to her heart, he would speak to her love and romance, and if a woman wants a man to feel love and connected with her, she would speak to his erotic nature.

Bonnie Gabriel, Interesting, that's interesting, yeah, very true. Good point. If I write a sequel to my book I'm going to include that. [laughs]

Francesca Gentille: When you talk about those different types, I have a sense of what erotic fantasy and maybe even erotic power play is, but why don't we just touch on those before we get into those other ones that I think people know less about. Give us a sample, maybe even from your own life, about those.

Bonnie Gabriel : About erotic fantasizing? Well, definitely, that was one of my favorite when I was very young, I had a very rich fantasy life, and I shared that with a partner who was also very rich-fantasy life, and one of my biggest fantasies has been since I was in my early teens, being abducted by a pirate and having him have his way with me on the pirate ship, right on the deck of the ship, ripping my clothes off, like one of those romance novels that I read as a kid, and I shared that with my partner and he was all too happy to first start verbally playing the role of a pirate and calling me a “wench” and ripping my nightgown off, and then we acted the whole thing out. He once came to the bedroom wearing a patch over his eye and a loop thing in his ear, so we could act the whole thing out, it was just so much fun, so playful. But even sharing other fantasies, you know, the fantasy area is one that people need to tread very gently because many of our fantasies have a taboo aspect to them and certainly, if they were to be acted out in real life, they could create real serious taboos for people. But as long as they stay in the fantasy realm, I feel that they need not be judge and that its fun and healthy just to share them as fantasies. So I talk about creating a safety net with words so that you can share those fantasies in ways that don't alienate your partner and you know, create trust and that is not making him or her wrong for having a fantasy that is not appealing to you, just xx comes from a different life experience, different needs.

Francesca Gentille: I’d love to talk more about how we create that erotic safety net and literally the words that we use, the question that we might ask or how we would share it to set it up to create that safety net before we actually share the fantasy, I think that's so important, after we come back from a break and a word from our sponsors.

[commercial break]

Francesca Gentille: Welcome back to Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra bringing you the soul of sex and bringing you the soul of sex talking with Bonnie Gabriel who is the author of “How to Entice and Enchant your Lover with Words” and the main title is “The Fine Art of Erotic Talk.” Bonnie, you were talking about that safety net.

Bonnie Gabriel : Yes, it's very important to hold a non-judgmental attitude no matter what your partner shares with you, and to acknowledge your own discomfort if they are sharing something that doesn't feel right, so you might want to say something like "You know, when you describe that scene that turns you on, it upsets me because I was taught it’s wrong to even think about having sex with a nun or a priest” or whatever [laughs] fantasy with an animal, and you might say, “it may take me a while to get use to this so please be patient.” In other words, taking responsibility for your own reaction and not blaming or judging them.

Francesca Gentille: Not saying "Oh that's so sick!"

Bonnie Gabriel : Exactly

Francesca Gentille : “How could you say that?” And if I'm the person that wants to reveal this fantasy with my beloved and I'm a little nervous because I think of it as a little kinky or a little taboo--how would I introduce that in a way, I wouldn't want to just, in the middle of intercourse say--

Bonnie Gabriel : No!

Francesca Gentille: "And I want you to think about the fact that maybe right now, you were being ravaged by Goths” or-- how would I introduce that?

Bonnie Gabriel: Well, again you do it outside of the bed—[laughs]--you sit and have a discussion, you say, maybe sit on the floor facing each other, very close position and talk a little bit and then you might say, " you know, there's something I want to share with you and it has to do with a fantasy that really turns me on and I'm feeling a little scared and hesitant cause it's kind of a taboo subject, but it's something that gets me very excited but nothing I would ever do in real life, I would just want to use it, if it's okay with you, in our own lovemaking," and get them to acknowledge that “yeah, I'm willing to hear this,” and then you can begin to share that fantasy. Although, what I tell people is to start again, if they're sharing fantasies, to start with what would be their least offensive fantasies if they were to reveal it in public and actually, I did a survey when I did the book about the most common sexual fantasies, and I can tell you what the most common five were, if that interests you?

Francesca Gentille: Please!

Bonnie Gabriel: Okay. Number one was having sex in a public place where people have the possibility of getting caught, that ominous danger. Another was having sex with more than one or a multitude of partners. Another was having sex in a place in which there’s a risk of getting caught, so that sort of goes with number one. Another one that doesn't sound terribly daring to me, but having sex out in nature or some other appealing setting. Being sexually taken, possessed or dominated, and being in complete sexual control of a partner. Those are the most common. And then there were ones on the other end of the list which also were there, which are the ones that I say to probably reveal later, after you learn to build that trust sharing fantasies with your partner, then you might go into the ones that might be a little bit more controversial.

Francesca Gentille: That's a great idea, to start with the ones that are more common, and thank you for letting us know what they are so there’s a good chance that our beloved may also share them or find them, as you said, less shocking, less frightening in some way, and by talking about it outside the bedroom, maybe even talking outside the bedroom, these are the kinds of fantasies I might want to share, I might want to share a fantasy about multiple partners, I might want to share a fantasy about being tied up or being taken while we're making love, “how does that sound?” or “what would be delicious to you?” then I've prepped it for the next time we're in bed. And I'm thinking, if this is similar to something that my beloved and I would do, and it would be storytelling, where sometimes I'd say, “do you want to hear a story?” and I would be stroking his body and would be caressing his phallus and then I would say, even sort of "once upon a time, there was a handsome man with wonderful eyes" and I would kind of describe him, "who was walking through the woods when he saw a tree that looked like a woman, and the areola of the nipple was the circle of the tree and her limbs were brown" and then I would tell this whole story and how he would come to this woman who was a tree and he would feel the green energy and the scent of her nature enfolding him, and while I was stroking him, and--is that a form of sharing things?

Bonnie Gabriel : Absolutely! I call that become an erotic troubadour and I even tell people if you're going to either read an erotic story or erotic poetry, to caress your partner while you're doing it, or have your partner caress you, because if your partner is touching you, it will put you into that very sensual mood and it will come through your voice and make your voice even more exciting to your partner. I know this one that I love because if my partner is an artist and I use one like "if I were an artist and you were my canvas, I'd use a very fine delicate brush to paint golden ripples around your soft, supple flesh like this," or, that's for a woman of course, and for a man I would say "Id slowly paint bright orange and black tiger stripes along your magnificent chest like this..." [laughs] So you can tailor it to the talents and interests of your partner.

Francesca Gentille: Oooh, that sounds very fun and very delicious!

Bonnie Gabriel : Another fun fantasy is if you reverse roles and you, as a woman, you make love to him all thrusting and he makes love to you all yielding and opening, and what that would feel like.
Francesca Gentille : Oh, you're giving us some great ideas, Bonnie, I love this, I can hardly wait until I see my beloved the next time!
[laughs]

Francesca Gentille: And when we just start to move into that sacred erotic talk that devotion/communion talk, and a couple of those modalities, can you say a little bit about that?

Bonnie Gabriel : Absolutely, I think it's important to bring the sacred into the physical, so that they are all blended and there are ways to do that where you feel like you're whole being is now connecting with your partner, and words that you can use to express that I would say, there are so many things, like “when you love me like this I feel as if my spirit is wrapped around your soul" or "I love the way I am honored by the way you open your body to me so completely." I mean, that one touched me very much when I heard that.

Francesca Gentille : That is very much, you’re so perfectly tantric, that is so much the beginning of what might be a tantric ritual for a couple, where they would sit on the bed together and they would just share those kinds of appreciation of one another possibly while caressing slowly or just the lotus position, where the man and the woman is seated in front of each other and the woman has her legs wrapped around the man and he has his legs underneath her in sort of that lotus position, that cross legged position, sometimes it help to have the woman on a pillow as well so all the pressure isn't on his legs, and that’s a wonderful way to start the tantric sexual encounter, which is often slower and really savoring it and deepening into the heart connection, all the senses, which, as you move the camera forward when you finally get to intercourse and orgasm, then you feel it through your whole body.

Bonnie Gabriel : Right.

Francesca Gentille : So those kinds of phrases are perfect, and one of the things I often will also include with my beloved is using phrases that might be, we don't hear them very often, is I'll say "your phallus is the life giving force," while I'm caressing it, "your phallus is the sea bearer," “without your phallus our world would not be,” and many men in our culture have gotten very conflicted and negative images about their phallus, their “cock,” that it's suppose to be strong and powerful and hard all the time, which is ridiculous, because of course it can't be, and also getting this kind of negativity that, “don't be such a cock or dick,” certainly those words turn us on and our beloved likes them we can use them, but because they're often negative words in the culture, it's sometimes fun or wonderful or exploratory to use some other words like phallus.

Bonnie Gabriel: Exactly, I have a whole list of words that I use in my book and some of them are humorous and I say try them out with your partner, use them in a sentence because, hearing words like dick and peter for some men is just associated with mens’ names and it turns them off, and prick has other connotations and words like “cunt” and “clit” have negative connotations for a lot of women, so I say, there are so many words that you can use to play with. Some of them are really kind of comical like "John Thomas" of course, they use, but there’s one, I think, “skin flute,” “trouser snake,” I mean, you can be really kind of humorous with them, or for a woman they have one called “jelly roll”--that sounds delicious [laughs] and for men, “sugar stick.”

Francesca Gentille : And also, outside of the actual sex act, is to talk about what terms might we like to hear. I love to hear, my beloved calls my vulva his “fragrant orchid.”

Bonnie Gabriel : Beautiful.

Francesca Gentille : He'll say, “tonight I hope I dream about your fragrant orchid” [laughs]…

Bonnie Gabriel :That's beautiful, and I love this other one that they call, for your...your “love purse” and your “beauty spot,” I've heard that one, one woman said her boyfriend called her clit his “treasure.” [laughs]

Francesca Gentille : It's just fun, I love that you're bringing up this fun, and the fun is sacred and the sacred is fun, the joy that is through our whole body, to just experiment and ask one another “how do you want to be called” and “how does it feel in your body if I call your genitals this or that?”

Bonnie Gabriel : Exactly.

Francesca Gentille :There really isn't a right or a wrong.

Bonnie Gabriel : No.

Francesca Gentille : What is going to have us feel more connected, more aroused, and in tantra and sacred sexuality, connected both genitals and heart.

Bonnie Gabriel :Exactly, exactly.

Francesca Gentille: Bonnie, I just want to thank you so much for coming on our show today and giving us some of these tips, I want people to find out more about you and I know that they can do that at www.lovetalk.org or email you at [email protected] and get your wonderful book, get those wonderful aphrodisiacs, the daily verbal aphrodisiacs, and our listening audience, I wanted to let you know that you can get Bonnie's URLs to reach her at our website which is www.personallifemedia.com and you can leave messages for me or for bonnie at 206-350-5333, that's 206-350-5333 and we’d love to hear from you. Thank you for joining us on Sex, Tantra and Kama Sutra, bringing you the soul of sex.

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