Episode 33: Catherine Rose: Exotic Dance and Women’s Sensual Movement

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There was a time, not so very long ago, when it seemed like no self-respecting woman would admit to knowing what a pole-dance or lap-dance is. But these days we see exotic dancing on TV, in the movies, at dance competitions, as well as at “Gentlemen’s Clubs”. Meet Catherine Rose: Teacher, performer, expert in the art and magic of exotic and erotic movement, pole dancing, and lap dancing. Join Chip and Catherine as we talk about this fun and exciting way to spice up a relationship. Catherine is an interesting and articulate advocate for every woman’s right to be sexy, to be juicy, to be – dare I say it?- slutty. And, of course, don’t miss Catherine’s simple, easy-to-understand exercise you can do at home to bring out your inner sex goddess.

Transcript

Chip August: Welcome to Sex, Love and Intimacy, I’m your host Chip August and on today’s show we’re going to be talking about exotic and erotic movement and dance and about women’s sensuality. My guest this week is Catherine Rose, and Catherine Rose is the owner and operator of Slinky Productions. Slinky Productions offers classes and trainings in dancing, erotic dancing and exotic dancing. Catherine has worked as a dancer herself for more than 8 years. She is really one of the pioneer exotic dance teachers in the United States, she’s been doing this since the year 2000 and really has kind of created a whole, a whole niche, a whole industry. Parenthetically, Catherine’s a pretty interesting person, she’s been studying trapeze and aerial flying for quite some time. She’s a teacher, she’s a student and just a really fun person to talk to.

Catherine Rose: I do, and that’s what keeps me doing it over and over. It certainly hasn’t been the most lucrative job yet, but it really is so rewarding because the feedback that I get from women is “I left feeling beautiful. I left feeling bigger.”

Catherine Rose: And depending on what level of pole dancing, I can teach anybody just how to look sexy. You know, what I’ve noticed is women don’t need my instruction. When there’s a pole in the room, they gravitate towards it. I don’t know what it is, big 2 inch cylinder, strong and sturdy in the middle of the room, like a fly, zoop, like a moth to a flame, women just move towards the pole and they start shaking their booty and their hips and smiling and their neck softens and they start moving joy in movement and sensuality.

Catherine Rose: And it really is a leap of faith to, you know, come into a lap dance class by themselves, sit on other women, I have them move around so that they try different body configurations, and they do, you know, they leave in this kind of playful, silly, excited place. I tell them they have homework. I say, “You have 24 hours to find someone to practice your lap dancing skills on.”

Catherine Rose: We go into this wonderful little shop called Ruby Dolls in North Beach and it’s a little shop that has all the stripper clothing and stripper shoes and club wear so it’s not just totally slinky slutty wear, it’s also stuff that, you know, you can cover up more of your body parts, but it’s all really fun, sexy and affordable clothing, and we go in there and some women want to buy, some women just want to try on, some women just want to look, but it’s fun to actually see the clothing and the shoes that the women we’ve been watching all night have been wearing, it kind of brings them out or like it brings the potential a little closer to reality, like, you know what, you can go home and have this, have these clothes and put them on and dance or just parade around or just look at yourself in the mirror or even just look at them in the closet. It makes it a little bit more accessible.

Chip August: Welcome to the show Catherine.

Catherine Rose: Thank you Chip, thanks for inviting me.

Chip August: Oh, it’s my pleasure. I’m, I always, I think there’s a lot of different things that keep relationships alive and keep relationships fun and keep things growing, and one of the things is sort of the fun things that we do to increase eroticism, to keep things sensual and I feel like what you do fits in that category. Is that how you see it?

Catherine Rose: That is exactly how I see it. Yes, Chip.

Chip August: So, tell me a little bit. First, what kinds of classes do you teach?

Catherine Rose: I teach classes in pole dancing, exotic dancing without the pole, floor work which is another part of exotic dancing and lap dancing. And then we also do tours of strip clubs for couples and ladies.

Chip August: Okay, now I know what pole dancing is, I think everybody listening knows what pole dancing is, but, you know, some people just never even heard the term, so what exactly is pole dancing?

Catherine Rose: You know, it’s hard to believe that anyone does not know what pole dancing is, 5 years ago they didn’t, but it’s, it seems like its exploded everywhere, in TV, in the media, Oprah, The Sopranos, etcetera, etcetera, and it’s dancing on a pole. I mean, if you think of a flagpole, a metal pole, it’s spinning around, I consider it a form of aerial dance, aerial being just something that’s up in the air and moving, and it’s quite athletic.

Chip August: And how did you learn to do it?

Catherine Rose: Trial and error, and my own personal instructors, a lot of bruises and a lot of watching, a lot of watching exotic dancers.

Chip August: And who comes to class, is this just like for other exotic dancer or who does this?

Catherine Rose: You know, about 20 percent of the women that study with me are professional exotic dancers or they’re young women or actually some of them are not so young women wanting to explore that industry, but I really, the majority of women that come to me are women that are curious, they’ve heard about exotic dancing, maybe they saw it on Oprah, Newsweek or something on TV or something a friend said, and it just grabbed them, it’s like, “Uh, I want to be sexy, I want to feel sexy again. I forgot, I miss that. Where can I go?”

Chip August: And doing this has people feel sexy?

Catherine Rose: Absolutely. So you asked me before who are these women. These are largely, I think most of them are professional women, a lot of them are mothers as well, but I’ve noticed that a good part of them are professional women, some of them are also students, some of them are dancers from other areas, but for the most part these are professional women that want to learn exotic dancing. Many of them already have a fitness regime. They’re not really looking to, you know, for the best way to trim their tummy, they’re looking for an excuse to be sexy, a sexy workout, as well, there’s actually a lot of reasons why they come to me.

Chip August: Tell me some more. What are some of the other reasons?

Catherine Rose: I get women that come to me that, some of them have just broken up from relationship, some of them have not been in relationship for a while and there’s a disconnect and there’s a deep longing in them to connect with that juicy yummy part of themselves that, that is radiant and that’s attractive and that’s sexy and sensual. So they really are coming to find, for an opportunity to reconnect with their sensuality through movement.

Chip August: And does everybody have that sensuality? Does, do you have to teach that or is that innate to people?

Catherine Rose: Well, I am an idealist and I have a belief that it is innate in women and that we disconnect from it at some point, either through trauma in early life or through, just through our lifestyle, maybe it’s inappropriate for us to wear our, and be more feminine in our, in our personalities, in our jobs or in our families, so I believe it’s just something that’s shut down unfortunately, and there’s just not an avenue where it’s safe to express, and, so that’s my personal belief and some women have an easier time getting back to that place, and for other women it’s a longer journey, but I really do believe that it is in every woman to reconnect with that part of herself, and I’m just there to show her some, some tricks and tips and some do’s and not do’s, some never do’s I call them, and some do’s and they’re really simple.

Chip August: So, in a way this is a, this is sort of a way to reclaim your, your inner sensuality without feeling bad about yourself.

Catherine Rose: Right, and there’s, I’m not quite sure that they’re feeling bad about yourself, yeah, it’s, it’s a place to safely come back to our self, that juicy, sexy, sensual, can I use the word slutty? That juicy, sexual, sensual, maybe slutty self that just really wants to shine, to be looked at, to feel sexy, to turn people on, to turn our self on.

Chip August: It saddens me a little bit, but I think that word slutty, slut, I think that is pretty controversial, I think, it seems like most women in high school, that’s the thing you don’t want to be, that’s, that you don’t want your friends saying, “Oh, she’s a slut”, so can you tell me what you mean by slutty?

Catherine Rose: Right, I think I understand what you mean, in high school you’re devalued or disrespected and possibly even mistreated if you’re considered a slut, and my, my reappropriation of the word slut is someone that can just shine in their sexuality as much and as long as they want to without it meaning anything.

Chip August: So you’re not really teaching people how, how to have sex. You’re not really, you’re not teaching people, you’re not making a moral judgment here. You’re teaching people a way to get in touch with their bodies that will help them get more in touch with their sensuality.

Catherine Rose: Yes, that’s it. Yeah, that’s it.

Chip August: And do people like tell you afterwards that you sort of change their life, that they, do you get life feedback that this like has different, makes a difference for them outside of just learning a few moves?

Catherine Rose: I do and that’s what keeps me doing it over and over. It certainly hasn’t been the most lucrative job yet, but it really is so rewarding because the feedback that I get from women is “I left feeling beautiful. I left feeling bigger. I stepped into my house feeling more graceful.” One friend said, “I canoe. I stepped in and out of the canoe with more grace.” They shine differently. I see them come back after one or two classes, sometimes just that, actually not sometimes, often there’s a magic that happens in my all day workshops and my assistant notices it and she even addresses it and talks, talks about it in the beginning of the classes, they walk in in the beginning a little contracted and they leave softer, more liquid, more fluid, more in their feminine essence, and I, the feedback I get is that, “My partner, my boyfriend is, his eyes are twinkling when he’s watched me dance and I felt really sexy and we had hot sex”, or “I felt more confident, when I walked into that room I felt beautiful and large and visible and I was proud of it” or “I walked differently, my shoulders were back” or, you know, “When I stepped in and asked for coffee I just felt a certain exquisiteness of self”, and that just makes me melt, that’s what tells me that “Yes Catherine, keep going, keep going with this work. The women are really eating it up.” Yeah.

Chip August: Can anybody do this?

Catherine Rose: I think anybody can do exotic dancing, absolutely, it really, my job is I demystify it, I make it accessible, the techniques that I break down though, the hardest thing to learn is pole dancing, and it’s so, it’s such a beautiful and erotic dance form that when it’s done with confidence, that it looks really easy, it just looks really fluid and a, you know, a beautiful body spinning around a pole is really, is just absolutely stunning to watch. And the truth is that is, it’s the most challenging and difficult art form to learn, but anyone can learn it, and if somebody can cultivate enough patience and work on building strength, they can achieve that as well, but pole dancing is the most, is going to be the hardest part, and I don’t want to turn people away, I just want to say, and depending on what level of pole dancing, I can teach anybody just how to look sexy. You know what, what I’ve noticed is though, women don’t need my instruction, when there’s a pole in the room they gravitate towards it, I don’t know what it is, big 2 inch cylinder, strong and sturdy in the middle of the room, like a fly, zoop, like a moth to a flame, women just move towards the pole and they just start shaking their booty and hips and smiling and their neck softens and they start moving into joy in movement and sensuality. But I can teach some of the, you know, some of the proper movements to make it look even better, but I’m talking about, you know, the spins and the climbing and the inversion, those are harder work. The other part of exotic dancing that I teach, the floor work, the standing, all that is very easy and accessible. You don’t need anything other than a desire to learn and the willingness to have your quadriceps get a little stronger ‘cause they, that’s probably your major muscle that will take on the most stress in my classes.

Chip August: So do you need volunteers to sit for the women to practice a lap dance on, because you know I might have some extra time, and I might just be able to sort of help?

Catherine Rose: Chip, I’m always looking for volunteers. There really is a shortage, a real shortage of people willing to sit still for a few minutes so that I can, you know, practice my booty in their lap. You know, my lap dance classes are, all of my classes are for the most part women only, and I let the women know that we practice on each other. That’s not for everybody, that’s too intimate, there’s a whole group of women that are just not ready for that kind of sisterly connection and a lot of women that it might bring up some homophobic feelings and it’s terrifying for them. But then there’s a whole other group of women that are just dying to jump their sisters and play and learn about lap dancing which is really a lot of fun, it’s a really fun skill to have up your sleeve.

Chip August: So, it, actually it just sounds to me like it must be just a fun way to spend time, that you have women together who are all expressing their sensuality together, who are not judging each other, who are doing this thing which they’re really doing for recreation and for fun and it just really sounds to me like it’s probably a really entertaining way to spend time.

Catherine Rose: It is. It’s a really, it’s a really, it’s a fun way to indulge and give back to ourselves, it’s playful, I, I work hard, actually I don’t work that hard, but I play really hard to create a very non judgmental playful safe environment where we’re not critiquing, where we’re not in our head thinking “Is this right or is this wrong?”, so I use a lot of humor to break down that nervousness and that anxiety that we come into with classes such as this, and it really is a leap of faith that they take to, you know, come into a lap dance class by themselves, sit on other women, I have them move around so that they try different body configurations, and they do, you know, they leave in this kind of playful, silly, excited place. I tell them they have homework. I say, “You have 24 hours to find someone to practice your lap dancing skills on”, and I assure them that it shouldn’t be a problem. I, it really isn’t too difficult to find a volunteer for a lap dance. So, yeah, it’s a lot of fun, it really is.

Chip August: It’s just, it just sounds like a wonderful way to, I notice in our work life, in our home life and commuting and sitting in front of a terminal, there’s a way we, we sort of lose touch with our sexuality. We stop, we become a machine rather than really a sexual being, and it just sounds like a really fun way to bring back playful sexuality that probably was in relationship in the beginning, and just, we’ve kind of gotten tired, you know.

Catherine Rose: I, yeah, that is, that really is it, and I think the main thing that like I see as my job is just to rekindle that place of excitement, of reconnection because when a woman feels sexy and juicy and yummy and excited, she’s, you know, she wants to share it. She wants to, she wants it to be part of a dynamic of a relationship, so she’s going to go home or call up somebody or look for somebody to share and play, somebody to share this with, yeah.

Chip August: I am, I’m really enjoying learning about this. This is all kind of new terrain for me. I’ve personally never taken a lap dance class or a pole dance class, although I have seen women who do that for work. But I want to take a short break. We want to give a chance for our sponsors to support us and for us to support our sponsors. You’re listening to Sex, Love and Intimacy, I’m your host Chip August, my guest Catherine Rose, exotic dancer and teacher, and we’ll be back after this short break.

Chip August: We’re back. You’re listening to Sex, Love and Intimacy. I’m your host Chip August. I’m talking to Catherine Rose, the owner and operator of Slinky Productions. Catherine is a dancer, is a pioneer exotic dance teacher, is a fledgling trapeze artist and so much more, and we’ve been, we’ve been talking about her classes, teaching just sort of ordinary women how to pole dance and lap dance. I want to shift a little bit because I noticed in your introduction you also talked about leading tours of strip clubs and the like. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? What exactly is it that you do?

Catherine Rose: I bring groups of women and couples to North Beach and I take them to a few adult establishments I like to call them, adult entertainment establishments, and I provide an evening of education and entertainment. And I started doing it in about I think it was 2002, and what happened was that a lot of my students kept asking me “Well where can we go and watch these women”, because part of learning exotic dancing is watching, you know. We can have a teacher but we want to, we want to see what it looks like on stage and we want to, we want to see it expressed live, and so I was constantly telling people what my favorite clubs were and eventually I decided to just start taking groups. Initially they were women only groups, which was really exciting to take a group of women into a male dominated environment, we’d get quite a bit of attention, and then I wanted to open it up to the partners, and then there was some single men that were begging to come as well, because I was discriminating, I had this assumption “Well, you know, men are comfortable going into strip clubs, they own, you know, they own the strip clubs for the most part”, and the truth is there’s a lot of men that have been very shy to enter that environment as well. So, it’s, I still advertise it as, you know, a women centric toward designed for women and couples, and I allow everybody to come in. I take us on a few, I actually, I start off by providing some background, a little bit of history of exotic dancing in America which always surprises people exactly when it started and where it started ‘cause, I won’t give it away, keep it a mystery. And then we start, we start visiting the clubs and they have some insight as well about what, you know, what it means to tip dancers, what are the different ways to tip dancers, so I’m giving some not only the history of exotic dancing in America, but just some of the, some etiquette, just really providing some patron etiquette that might give, provide them the best opportunity for like the best kind of interaction that they could have watching a dancer, presuming that they do want to interact. Then we end the tour with a fabulous family style dinner and then there’s actually a little visit right before into a special shop, so it’s a fun, really fun and dense, densely filled evening of entertainment.

Chip August: Okay, few different things here. First, just for those of you who are not from the San Francisco Bay area, North Beach is the area in San Francisco where there are more than a few clubs of the kind that Catherine’s talking about. Just in case you’re wondering, North Beach of what, so. But a shop, are we talking clothing, are we talking, I mean, are you, are, do you sort of help women figure out how to dress for this, is this, I mean, like what, you know, what?

Catherine Rose: I alluded to that kind of funny. So, yeah, at the end of our visiting the clubs right before dinner we go into this wonderful little shop called Ruby Dolls in North Beach, and it’s a little shop that has all the stripper clothing and stripper shoes and club wear, so it’s not just totally slinky, slutty wear, it’s also stuff that, you know, you can cover up more of your body parts, but it’s all really fun, sexy and affordable clothing, and we go in there and some women want to buy, some women just want to try on, some women just want to look, but it’s fun to actually see the clothing and the shoes that the women we’ve been watching all night have been wearing and it kind of brings them out of there like, it brings the potential a little closer to reality, like you know what, you could go home and have this, have these clothes and put them on and dance or just parade around or just look at yourself in the mirror or even just look at them in the closet, and it makes it a little bit more accessible. So that’s what the shop is, that’s what the little shop is. And, or actually another piece of it is that we, this is, a really fun part is that we spend a fair amount of time just trying the clothes on, parading around, they pretty much just open up the shop for us, I have an arrangement with them, they open up the shop for us and so we just take over the shop, parade around, try on all these skimpy little outfits, 6 inch heels and have everyone like a “yay” or “nay”, “yes, buy it” or “don’t buy it” or, and so forth. It’s really fun.

Chip August: Now when you bring the group of people mostly women into a strip club, have you prearranged, I mean do the club owners know that you’re coming, do the women who are dancing know that you’re coming, is this kind of set up in advance or do you just sort of show up with a bunch of people?

Catherine Rose: I, we used to do the tour, what, almost every month and they had, they knew we were coming, we only do it three times a year now, and they do call up the club so they are aware that we’re coming and the women, because exotic dancers are pretty kind of a transient industry or the women come and go, it’s not always the same women. So a lot of them that have been there for a while and that have seen us before, they recognize is, “Oh, you’re back”, but because it’s, you know, we, it’s not going to necessarily be the same women, we are surprised, they’re constantly coming up to us and asking us “Who are you? What are you doing here?” and we let them know we’re on a tour.

Chip August: And, and how is that for the dancers, are they, do they, you know, I, you know, it’s one thing when I’m dancing because there’s, you know, horny guys that just want to look at my body and for whatever, you know, whatever’s going on for them, but now there’s this sort of group of women and some men and they’re sort of studying my dancing which is not usually what I dance for. How is it for the dancers?

Catherine Rose: You know, I, in all my experience of bringing couples and women to the tours I don’t get this feeling of studying. The one’s that really do come to the tours, they are really curious and a lot of them are getting turned on as well, even though these, you know, regardless of their sexuality it’s a very erotic environment and especially if they’re there with their partner, so they’re having fun, it’s racy, it’s fun, they, I make sure that what I do is I bring the women, I bring all of us up into the what I call GYN, actually, never mind, lets say you’re right, but I take us gynecology row basically, we go right up to the stage so we are interacting with the dancers, like we’re right up there and how, as a former dancer myself, when I, when there was women and couples in the audience it was a lot more exciting because it, first of all it broke that kind of typical energy that’s in it, which is just, you know, men consuming women, it, you know, when, I’m not getting this our right, right. They enjoy it. The women, the dancers love when we come in because we’re really appreciative and that’s part of what I’m letting them know ahead of time is that these women are, you know, when you come, when they come on stage and, and, see their audience, how we, we can have a huge impact on them by how we show up for them, so we’re not going to be stingy with our dollars, you put your money out right away, you make eye contact, you show your appreciation and that starts a loop of appreciation and, and the dancers wanting to be more playful with us, so it’s actually really exciting, they’re so upset when we leave, you know. Because we’re hooting and hollering, we’re making noise, we’re excited, we’re not bored patrons. For a lot of them it’s their first time there, so it’s, there really is an enthusiasm in the air compared to maybe, you know, patrons that are there all the time, and so it’s a treat, it really is a treat for the dancers and for myself when I remember when we get women and couples to come in because there’s just a little bit more excitement and enthusiasm, more tipping and when we get up they’re just like, “No, don’t, don’t leave us”, and we’re “Sorry, we’re moving on.”

Chip August: Okay, so I don’t want you to give away everything, but would you be willing to tell me, you alluded to there are sort of things that you found out about exotic dancing that most people don’t know or, and that you talk about on the tour. Could you tell me one thing that you think I don’t know or you think most of the listeners might not know about the origins of exotic dancing or what you’ve learned about exotic dancing?

Catherine Rose: On thing, Chip. Lets see. Well, a lot of the women will tell you, especially if you purchase a lap dance from them that they are students. They really are, that’s one thing is that a lot of the women really do have other lives and a lot of them really are students, I don’t know if that’s such a big mystery thing. But I think the big secret is that exotic dancing, topless dancing started here in America, it started, well not in America, I don’t know the history of Europe and exotic dancing, but it started right here in North Beach in San Francisco at the corner of Broadway and Columbus, so we are really in the hob of the origins of topless dancing as, as, you know, as an entertainment, as, you know, as part of our, as part of a money exchange entertainment industry.

Chip August: It’s true, didn’t know that. I would’ve thought sure it would’ve started in New York or Chicago, there you go. We’re going to take a short break. We want to give a chance to listen to our sponsors and please do listen to the sponsor messages because there’re often some really great deals that you can get just for listening to this program and listening to the sponsors. When we come back Catherine Rose is going to give us an exercise, something you can do at home, something to help your own sensuality at home. So, please join us after the break.

Chip August: We’re back. You’re listening to Sex, Love and Intimacy. I’m your host Chip August. We’ve been talking to Catherine Rose, we’ve been, she’s the owner and operator of Slinky Productions, and Catherine’s been talking about, oh so many things. We’ve been talking about lap dancing and pole dancing and we’ve been talking about taking tours of strip clubs and wandering around the strip club area of San Francisco, and we’re kind of running out of time here, so I’m just wondering Catherine if people wanted to take a class from you, if they wanted to take a tour with you, if they wanted to get in touch with you how could they do that?

Catherine Rose: If you would like to take a class with Slinky Productions then you can look us up online at slinkyproductions.com, just like how it’s spelled. You can call us at 510-291-9779.

Chip August: And, and always I like to ask my guests is there an exercise, is there something you could recommend to people listening to this that they could actually do at home on their own that might improve the sensuality or sexuality, might bring more love or intimacy into the relationship, and when I asked you about that before we started recording you thought you had an idea, so what was that?

Catherine Rose: Well, I’m going to actually divulge one of our activities in our all day Intro to Exotic Dance workshop, it’s a really wonderful exercise and it’s one that I’ve been doing since I started teaching, so it’s one that’s kind of stayed with us, and what that is is I ask you to find the time where there’s nobody in the house if that’s possible, or at least nobody in a room, close all the doors, dim the lights, turn, close the blinds so you have, you really feel like you have privacy, it’s really important to feel like nobody is watching you. Have a glass of wine if that’s something that you do, do something that relaxes you, find a piece of music that turns you on, it doesn’t matter if it’s classical music or metal or industrial, it really doesn’t matter, you just need to find music that kind of goes right inside that place in you that feels like your heart straight down to your genitals, okay? And put the music on, clear a place against the wall where your body can actually make contact with the wall. So move away any chairs or sofas if you need to. Close your eyes and begin a dance with the wall. Keep your eyes closed, keep the music loud and see if you can just dance with the wall as if the wall was your partner, as if the wall was a lover. Stay in contact with the wall at all times, so keep a body part in connection, it doesn’t matter if it’s an elbow or your nose or even an eyelash, but something, some part of your body is going to stay in contact with the wall at all times, and just have that dance. That’s it. And see what happens. And keep breathing, and just see what happens. That’s my little exercise for you guys.

Chip August: Well, that sounds like great fun. I want to, those of you, some of you are a little musical challenged, so I just want to give you some ideas of music that might actually serve you. You might want to, if you’re a classical person, you might want to find a copy of Ruvelle’s Bollero. Oh, Catherine is looking at me like, “Oh, I have some suggestions also”, so I’m going to let her make some suggestions.

Catherine Rose: Well on my website I have a slinky playlist. On my homepage at slinkyproductions.com every month I change it, so every month you’ll find between 8 and 14 really sexy songs that click right onto iTunes so that you can sample them and download them right away, and if you’re hungry for me I have a whole page from the whole, from about one or two years since I started doing these playlists, so you can just go to iTunes and look up my Slinky Productions playlists.

Chip August: Even better. Catherine you have been a terrific guest, talking about something that we don’t usually talk about and that I think a lot of people don’t know anything about, so I just want to really appreciate you for coming on the show and for kind of maybe opening our eyes to some different ways that we can have a little more fun in our life. Thanks for being here.

Catherine Rose: Thank you Chip. Thanks so much for inviting me. It was a pleasure to be here and talk with you.

Chip August: I want to thank you listeners for listening. I want to remind you that for text and transcripts for this show or any of the shows on Personal Life Media, just go to our website, personallifemedia, all as one word, dot com, personallifemedia.com. If you want to get in touch with me, you can reach me by sending email to [email protected] and I do read all the email that I get. If you have suggestions for guests for shows or themes for shows I’m always interested in hearing your suggestions and your ideas. If, if email doesn’t quite work for you and you’d rather leave a voicemail message, you can leave a voicemail message for Chip August by calling 206-350-5333. Please leave your name, please leave my show name which is Sex, Love and Intimacy and also your question or comment. Please do leave a phone number or an email where we can get in touch with you, and just know that leaving a message indicates your agreement for us to use your message on air. This is bringing us to the end of our show. I want to, I want to thank you very much for listening. This is your host Chip August. You’ve been listening to Sex, Love and Intimacy and I hope you tune in again real soon.