Episode 18: A Native American Prophecy – “Hollow Bones” by Dr. Stephen Paul
Stephen Paul earned a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of Missouri and then taught, researched, counseled, and consulted at the University of Utah. Stephen and artist Gary Collins collaborated to publish 3 Vision books: Illuminations: Visions for Change, Growth, and Self-Acceptance; Inneractions: Visions to Bring Your Inner and Outer Worlds into Harmony; and In Love: Visions for Growth and Harmony in Relationships. He currently writes and speaks about a process for releasing attachments and how to ride the inevitable waves of change by living more simply, harmoniously, and respectfully--more in line with Spirit.
On that note, his new book is Hollow Bones, a novel that springs from an actual event: on November 23, 1993, a Native American prophecy was fulfilled when a delegation representing the North American indigenous peoples addressed a gathering at the United Nations. The Native American Elders delivered the prophecy of their spiritual leaders, warning that a long-predicted time of purification was already under way. The prophecy said that unless we return to living simply and harmoniously there will be climate change, poverty and war. The book takes place in the not-too-distant future and tells the story of Mathew, Hope and Lily, who discover they have returned to fulfill the prophecy. Dr. Paul speaks eloquently of the urgent need for simplicity and spirit in our lives.
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Peter Brill: Hello! Welcome to the “Third Age” with the doctor and the man from Hollywood. I'm the doctor, Stephen Paul:. Peter Brill and the man from Hollywood is none other than David Debin.
David Debin: Where’s our audience?
Peter Brill: On the show…
David Debin: We had a big audience in here. I used to get a huge round of applause. What happened?
Peter Brill: Are you guys ready now?
David Debin: Yes.
Peter Brill: Can you concentrate for that. OK. On this show, we turn the myth of aging upside down. We sort out the scientific and the trendy, the medical and the cultural, and we tell you everything you need to know about living in the “Third Age”. Remember, we guarantee, if you listen to us, you will never grow old.
David Debin: I'm the man from Hollywood known as David Debin. The "Third Age" usually starts somewhere around age 45 or 50 as you probably know by now. It's that time when you start to feel a strong desire for deeper meaning and fulfillment in your life. Your first age is childhood, your second age is building career and family. The "Third Age" is a major change or transition to a whole new set of problems, values, opportunities, and gratifications. So join us as fellow explorers in this journey to discover what brings passion, purpose, and joy into this unchartered time of life.
Peter Brill: Here's something we bet you don’t know. On November 23rd, 1993, the Native American Prophecy was fulfilled when a delegation representing the North American indigenous people addressed a gathering at the United Nations. The Native American elders delivered a Prophecy of their spiritual leaders warning that a long predicted time of purification was already underway. If you want to hear what that Prophecy was, and if it came true, we'll be talking to the man who wrote the book about it called “Hollow Bones.” Here's Dr. Stephen Paul and he's coming right up.
David Debin: I thought, originally, before I read the book I thought that it was a book about osteoporosis. [laughter] We have so many doctors on the show here.
Peter Brill: A problem with bone marrow diseases.
David Debin: Yes, exactly, but it turns out it's more uplifting than that and it talks about ways in which you can enrich your life. Do you need to enrich your life, Marissa?
Marissa Sgobassi: Yes, I do, everyday.
David Debin: What do you do to enrich your life?
Marissa Sgobassi: I do some yoga.
David Debin: A little yoga.
Marissa Sgobassi: I try to read as many books as I can with spiritual enrichment.
David Debin: Really? That’s really good! And you're only what, 13, 14 years old?
Marissa Sgobassi: I'm 12. [laughter]
David Debin: No, that’s great, yoga is going to keep you [xx]
Peter Brill: It’s amazing that they admitted her to use CSP at 12.
David Debin: I know.
Marissa Sgobassi: Yes.
Peter Brill: I guess we have to really…
David Debin: We have to honor that.
Marissa Sgobassi: The brainchild. [laughs]
David Debin: We have a big thing coming up which is called Christmas and we're all going to have to go Christmas shopping. We're all going to have to look for unusual gifts. My wife, for instance, you can't buy anything for her because she already has everything so I don’t know. But I did come across something in my search for today’s news story, Peter.
Peter Brill: OK. It's time now.
David Debin: This is officially the news story.
Peter Brill: We can't do fanfares anymore.
Man: I know, I can't do sound effects. I don’t know what happen. We got technical difficulties here. Over the weekend, lots of technical difficulties occurred so we’ll just leave it at that but I'll have to make the noises with my mouth!
David Debin: OK.
Man: Old fashion radio sound effects.
David Debin: We can have old fashion sound effects.
Peter Brill: OK, let's try it again. It's time for the news story.
[trumpet-like sound] [laughter]
David Debin: OK! Very good. Don’t stop there. OK, here we go. This is about people who are confused about Christmas shopping. It's actually from a place called [xx], Florida. “Are you stumped about what to give that special someone this Christmas? How about some rhino poop! The International Rhino Foundation…
Peter Brill: Now, hold on. Is this going to get smutty?
David Debin: This is real, no. The International Rhino Foundation is auctioning separately on eBay four pieces of dung from the endangered species and will use the proceeds to fund conservation efforts. OK? Now, in case you want to get more specific, the pieces come from four of the five types of rhino - the white, the black, Indian, and Sumatran. The Javan rhino is so dangerous, a sample could not be collected. Let's just say they tried and they weren’t successful. [laughs]
Man: What sound is a charging rhino make? I'm trying to figure it out.
[somebody making sounds]
David Debin: Each piece is dried, mounted in a clear trophy case and marked with the type of rhino that produced it. So you can go on eBay, you can bid. There's a bid for $500 for the first time to 25. You know, for about $450 or so, you could get something really nice mounted dried and help in conservation. Just nice piece of rhino dung in a nice little case and for the person who has everything.
Peter Brill: For the first time, and you're going to buy this for your…
David Debin: Yes, I'm getting this for my wife because she has everything.
Peter Brill: …your wife.
David Debin: Unfortunately, she can't wear it.
Peter Brill: David, Christmas night, I have an extra bed. [laughter]
David Debin: Well, I believe in conservation. We all do.
Peter Brill: I believe in conserving my marriage. [laughs]
David Debin: Which is what we're going to be talking about a little bit today is living in harmony with the universe…
Peter Brill: All right, there you go.
David Debin: …and with our earth and in the planet that we're on. So our guest today is an author who’s written the book that helps us figure out how best to live as one with the earth and with everyone else.
Peter Brill: We're very fortunate today to have Dr. Stephen Paul who has a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from the University of Missouri and has taught, researched, counseled, and consulted into University of Utah. I guess, he must have moved there from Missouri.
David Debin: Unless they move Utah to Missouri.
Peter Brill: That’s also possible. He recently published the novel, “Hollow Bones” which takes place in the not-too-distant future and tells the story of Matthew, Hope, and Lily who discovered that they return to fulfill Native American Prophecy. He currently writes and speaks about the process for releasing attachments and how to ride the inevitable ways of change by living more simply.
Welcome to the show, Dr. Paul.
Stephen Paul: Why, thanks for having me.
Peter Brill: Should we call you Dr. Paul or Stephen?
Stephen Paul: Stephen is good.
Peter Brill: Good.
David Debin: Stephen, maybe you could tell us--because we built in the suspense, of course, as you could tell by our introduction in the first part of our show--what exactly is the Native American Prophecy delivered to the United Nations in 1993.
Stephen Paul: I'm really glad that you started there because I think that’s really an important precursor to the book I wrote anyway. The Prophecy has to do with a declaration basically that unless we return to living more simply, harmoniously, and respectfully, that we could expect that there would be dramatic, more frequent, and more intense climate changes, earth movements, poverty, hunger, violence, and war in order to, basically, shake us out of our complacency. I think we turned this to a state where we would pay attention and return to the harmony with the earth.
David Debin: Wow! How was this delivered to the United Nations? How did that actually work? Who actually delivered it and how was it received? Did they laugh?
Stephen Paul: That’s kind of an interesting story because the Prophecy was given to the Hopi spiritual leaders 45 years ago, that's longer than that now. But in ’93, it would have been 45 years already and they had directed through messengers to knock on the doors of United Nation buildings trying to gain access and entry in order to deliver the message to the people of the world. They tried and tried and tried and it wasn't until 1993 that the last living messenger actually was able to deliver the message.
Peter Brill: How was it delivered?
Stephen Paul: They didn’t actually get to address the whole assembly but they convened a conference called “The Cry of the Earth Conference.” Native American leaders from all over the Americas came and delivered the messages of their spiritual leaders and, basically, they just explained and informed and encouraged us to recognize the way that we are idolize with the great spirits.
Peter Brill: That must have been some impressive group. You're talking about leaders from all the Americas.
Stephen Paul: Yes.
Peter Brill: Native leaders, that must have been some incredible group.
Stephen Paul: It was, and I think the greatest irony of the whole thing is how few of us have actually heard.
Peter Brill: Or even heard about it. Now, obviously, this touched you in some deep way.
Stephen Paul: It did.
Peter Brill: How did that come about?
Stephen Paul: I was researching my book at the time.
Peter Brill: This book.
Stephen Paul: Yes, “Hollow Bones.”
Peter Brill: But the book is partly based on this Prophecy but you didn’t know about the Prophecy.
Stephen Paul: The book is not based on the Prophecy in the sense that I had read the Prophecy that was delivered at the ’93 conference before I wrote it.
David Debin: It was a changing-world book and then the Prophecy fit right in.
Stephen Paul: There's a series of Prophecies that preceded this one and they were called the “Rainbow Warrior Prophecies.” They were compiled in a book by a writer named Steven McFadden. He interviewed a lot of the living Native American spiritual leaders and compiled the history of the Prophecies. Basically, they talked about a time when spirit would return to the earth and a new world would be born after a period of purification and cleansing. We're right at this moment, in the midst of the purification and cleansing that they talked about. In fact, that was the declaration of the ‘93 conferences that that purification was already underway.
Peter Brill: In what sense?
Stephen Paul: In what sense?
Peter Brill: Yes.
Stephen Paul: I think you can think of it as shaking and quaking and upheaval that will disrupt our lifestyles to the point where we are, eventually if not more rapidly, forced to come to turns with our lack of relationship with the earth and each other.
David Debin: It sounds like the Prophecy has some similarities with the end of the world Christian religious properties. What it's called?
Marissa Sgobassi: With the Mayans [xx].
Stephen Paul: Yes, the Mayans participated but it's not an end of the world Prophecy.
David Debin: No, but the end of the world Prophecy, everything will, there will be all kinds of eruptions and plagues and everything else and then the Heavenly One will come down and take all those who believe the way. Is that similar to that?
Stephen Paul: Yes, but not so much. The fact that there would be disruption--basically, that we will reap the consequences of our actions, that we would experience events that corresponded with our separateness and our lack of attention to our relationship with the world, that part is similar. But what they're talking about is the time of purification that prepares for the birth of a new Renaissance, more related in spiritual life on this planet.
David Debin: We're going to get in to that and in just a moment, we're going to find out exactly what you're doing [xx] and try to figure out how we came out around. This is David Debin, I'm on "Third Age" with Dr. Peter Brill. We will be right back.
Peter Brill: Well, we got a little [xx] music playing for us, a little Indian kind of jazzed up music. Anyway, I'm back. I'm Dr. Peter Brill and I'm here with the man from Hollywood, David Debin and Marissa Sgobassi and we're talking to Dr. Stephen Paul. He's written the book “Hollow Bones” about our relationship to the earth and the Native American Prophecy.
Almost every religion, almost every people have some things in common in terms of some horrible events that’s going to happen, human kind is going to be punished in one way or another for their sins. Wouldn’t you agree with that?
Stephen Paul: I think that’s one way to look at it. I don’t look at it that way myself and I don’t think the Native Americans necessarily do either. I think it's more of a wake up call, more of a realization that we've wandered off the mark. What they say is that--there were original instructions given to the indigenous people, their role as stewards of the earth and that over the course of time, all of us, including the Native Americans have gotten destructive and engrossed to material world and that we have lost track of those original instructions.
I have a friend who’s a youth medicine man and he's very, very involved now in trying to call his own people back to that traditional old ways, the ways of spirit, the ways of relatedness with the earth, and so forth. I think that’s more the direction that this is taking. Over the course of centuries, I guess, that a lot of the traditions have said that the spiritual messengers would return like in the Native American tradition, White Buffalo woman was the messenger that brought a lot of the teachings and practices to the native people [xx] to return.
David Debin: Who can be a spiritual messenger now? Let's really look at the reality of this.
Peter Brill: What's the message?
David Debin: Yes, but first, let's look at the reality of the situation. We've got wars, we've got people fighting with each other. We've got people destroying the earth. We've got everything going in the wrong direction. Yes, there's a handful of people when you look at the generation…
Peter Brill: Can I be [xx].
David Debin: Yes, go right ahead.
Peter Brill: Because we're feeding more people than we ever have, a small proportion of the world is starving that has ever starved. We have less war actually in terms of the number of people who were involved in war, numbers of wars going on now than anytime in history.
David Debin: So more dangerous wars.
Peter Brill: More dangerous wars. We have the potential to be much more horrible things.
David Debin: That’s right, that’s right. yes.
Peter Brill: But in terms of are we making progress as a people? In some areas, we are, in some, we're not. Environmentally, we're obviously a disaster case. But it's not a result of--we couldn't go back to living off the earth. We would lose three-quarters of the world of starvation if we did.
David Debin: No.
Stephen Paul: May I add. I think the thing is that the only option now is to look forward. We can't return to the old practices and go back to living simply on the land. So the challenge is to create a new vision of the world. I don’t think there's any question that we’re being called upon to do that now. There's no way, I mean, the scientific predictions correspond with the Native American predictions.
Peter Brill: In what ways specifically?
Stephen Paul: One of my favorite contemporary scientific authors is Lester Brown. Lester has been compiling for several decades. An analysis of the resources of the world…
Peter Brill: The plan 2.0 B.
Stephen Paul: Plan be, yes. They just did 3.0, [xx] publish 2.0.
Peter Brill: That’ll depress me even more.
Stephen Paul: No, no. Actually, it's really a blueprint.
Peter Brill: It's getting better? Well, 2.0, still, you had to fix it.
Stephen Paul: Yes, but I think he's really focused now and he's identified more specifically the steps that we can take to address the issue. But it's not a different picture that they're painting than the prophecies.
Peter Brill: In what ways specifically? Give us a specific example, but one Prophecy that relates.
Stephen Paul: OK. The prophecies as I mentioned talk about times when there would be erratic climate changes. OK, well, we have erratic climate changes. The prophecies talked about hunger and Lester Brown’s predictions talked about increasing food prices, soaring across the world.
Peter Brill: Yes, the first thing we're going to do is run out of the water.
Stephen Paul: Water shortages, [xx] shortages.
Peter Brill: Long before the war.
Stephen Paul: They didn’t talk about fuel but they did talk about water shortages and draughts and that’s the many culture. If you of diamonds book collapse, it's a fascinating depiction of the cultures that failed and cultures that have survived.
Peter Brill: What were the rules or the guidance that they gave the primitive people?
Stephen Paul: That’s why I like the Native American Prophecy because instead of saying, “OK, now we've got to develop the technology for fuel and the technology for water and the technology for this and the technology for that. We're going to do this and that.” They just [xx] all down to simple changes in our selves that we needed to make. That would bee our internal selves in [xx] and in harmony with the earth.
So they talked about living more simply which is what we're going to be called on to, no question about it. All of our technology will not override our need to reduce our consumption. So living more simply is a way of intentionally implementing that kind of approach.
David Debin: What were the characters in “Hollow Bones” do about this? When saying living more simply, how did they live more simply and what are they doing to begin the transformation we need to make?
Stephen Paul: The characters in “Hollow Bones” discovered that they are breeding common dreams that lead them to a community in Montana. The community in Montana is a group of people that have been brought together and that have created a community based on very good principles of stewardship and good principle of relationship among each other.
They're applying the technologies that are available right now. They use wind power; they use solar power; and they use hydrogen power. They cooperate with each other in this communal situation. I think that’s what we can do in any of our communities. I don’t think you need to go to a small community in Montana. There's a possibility of doing the same thing in our urban communities.
David Debin: But has everybody in the community gotten there by dreaming?
Stephen Paul: Everyone in the community has been led there, directed there in some way or another not necessarily by dreaming.
David Debin: But the heroes or the characters in your book get there by dreaming.
Peter Brill: Some spiritual message.
Stephen Paul: Yes, they all discovered that they are members of the Nez Pierce community that Chief Joseph’s Nez Pierce community that were wisdom keepers that had made a promise at the time that they were alive to return and bring back those old teachings and principles.
David Debin: OK, good, because that’s going to get us to the subject of reincarnation.
Stephen Paul: That’s great.
David Debin: Yes, so we're all going to take a deep breath and find out if there is such a thing as reincarnation. We're talking to Dr. Stephen Paul, the author of “Hollow Bones”. We're going to find out how to get the book in a moment, too.
Peter Brill: But first, we're going to have reincarnated sponsors.
David Debin: Yes, reincarnated sponsors and here they go!
Peter Brill: Welcome back to "Third Age". I'm one of your co-host, Dr. Peter Brill. I'm here with the man from Hollywood, David Debin. You missed your cue there.
David Debin: No, they don’t have cue. Oh, his verbal cue. No, we don’t do that, do we?
Peter Brill: There you go.
David Debin: Thank you.
Man: Thank you, David.
Peter Brill: By the way, many of you have asked to be able to get in contact with us and to know how to reach us. I just thought I'd let you know that our website is www.ThirdAgeFoundation.com or you can reach us 805-969-9794.
We're talking to day with Dr. Stephen Paul who’s written the book that you can get, I suppose, we'll have to find out, “Hollow Bones”. So go ahead, David.
David Debin: Did you want to say something about Personal Life Media? Or, we're going to talk about that later.
Peter Brill: Yes.
David Debin: OK. Stephen, welcome back to the show.
Stephen Paul: Thanks.
David Debin: OK, here we go. In the book as we just discussed, in the book “Hollow Bones”--by the way, “Hollow Bones” is a book that people can buy where?
Stephen Paul: You can order to any bookstore, it's available on Amazon.com, and you can order through my website at www.CircleDancer.com.
David Debin: That’s a good one CircleDancer.com. OK, so they can find out, read a little bit about the book and find out if it's something they want to read. I know it's something that we like to read.
Stephen Paul: Yes. There are sample chapters and reviews and interviews on my website if people want to get a little more information about the book.
David Debin: Great. OK. Now in the book, the characters as we discussed, have dreams which they later learn are really past life memories. I don’t even know if this is the right question but is there such a thing as past life memories? Are they real? We keep hearing different opinions on whether they're real or not. Some of the opinions come from very well educated community leaders. I've actually been surprised to hear some people so sure.
Peter Brill: Quite well known in our community.
David Debin: Yes, right. So what's going on? Is there or isn’t there?
Stephen Paul: I can tell you in terms of my own personal experience that prompted me to write the book that I really hadn’t thought of this topic and I hadn’t thought of these characters and I hadn’t thought of these issues until I attended a workshop in Montana, coincidentally, on property where these Nez Pierce Indians had actually passed through flame from the Calvary which was pursuing them, doing the meditation with a group of people that was led by a woman named [xx].
In the midst of that meditation, I was suddenly no longer the person who I experienced myself to be in this lifetime. I found myself dancing around a fire, dressed in buckskin, with a eagle feather hanging in front of my right ear and bone breast plate and beaded moccasins and I was just looking at myself. I was looking at myself and I realized that I was experiencing through this person’s eyes and heart.
What I experienced was our relatedness with my tribe and the earth and the creatures around me in the woods and the Great Spirit that I'd never experienced in this lifetime. I had never even come close. It was so compelling and so beautiful that what inspired me to write the book. So the vision that Matthew has for his dream in the book really is very closely related to the vision that I had in that moment. Can I say that it was a past life memory? I can't swear to that.
David Debin: Sure, you can say it.
Stephen Paul: But what I can say is that I experienced that moment as if I were that person living that moment rather than as someone witnessing that moment or inferring about that moment by observing that person. So was I him, was he me, was it just a passing vision? I don’t know, but it was powerful.
David Debin: Have you tried to get back there since?
Stephen Paul: No, I've never really tried to do that. I've had similar experiences over my lifetime about other circumstances, other beings but this was clearly the most powerful, most compelling of all.
Peter Brill: Do you use this in your practice as a psychologist?
Stephen Paul: I never really had because I never really was that tapped in to it myself. I never really understood that well enough to draw in it.
Peter Brill: Some people do, there are psychologist that do.
Stephen Paul: I know there are but no, I never really did.
Peter Brill: Let me see if I can paraphrase what you're saying. On some fundamental level, you're experience in that meditation was transformative and connected you to the earth in a way you had never experienced before.
Stephen Paul: That’s right.
Peter Brill: That caused this book to be written and that caused the cry to try to save this globe form what you see facing us in the future.
Stephen Paul: That’s right. That’s right. What I realized was that the lesson that I was experiencing--I'll call it experiencing--was so applicable to our conditions now. It wasn't that about going back and reviving the old live-in-the-woods ways. It was about that sense of relatedness and that sense of honoring the connection among all things.
Peter Brill: You know what's very interesting in us in the "Third Age" and we're going to stop in just a minute because we're running out of time here, but what we found is that experience of feeling the connectedness of all things, some deeper spiritual is the starting point. David and I have seven steps we've written in our book and that’s the starting point for people on the transformation of the "Third Age", how to find passion, purpose, and joy in this period of life. That’s wonderful, great story.
David Debin: It's a great story. I'm real happy that you came to tell it to us. Dr. Stephen Paul, author of “Hollow Bones” which can be had on Amazon or a bookstore. The website is CircleDancer.com. Stephen, thank you very much for joining us. I'm going to go and look for my past life experiences as soon as I'm off the air.
Stephen Paul: You don’t need to worry about it, it'll find it.
David Debin: It’ll find me. OK, thanks a lot
Peter Brill: We'll be right back.
Peter Brill: Welcome back to the "Third Age". I'm one of your co-host, Dr. Peter Brill. I'm here with David Debin and Marissa Sgobassi.
David Debin: You know what we have, we have something brand new. We have a brand new feature which we are calling “I Won't Back Down.” [music playing] That’s Tom Petty singing “I Won't Back Down” and we have--what is “I Won't Back Down?” We are encouraging all our members in the Third Age Organization to take the attitude about aging that I won't back down. People try to stop you from having your dreams because you might be too old, because you don’t have enough influence or status, don’t back down. You have a right to have your dreams. People who are getting older feel that they don’t have a right to their health. You know what, don’t back down.
Peter Brill: Or for their doctor that sit there and to pay attention to what their complaints are, to answer their questions or to explain why something’s happening or why they're not doing something else.
David Debin: That’s right. I won't back down is the byword here. I just want to tell you a little story about a retired and active 79-year-old named Betty up in San Francisco who noticed an increase in anxiety. It interfered with her active lifestyle and life began to feel overwhelming near the holidays which are coming up and we can all understand that. The holidays also coincided with the anniversary of the passing of her longtime mate.
They reminded her of past visions with relatives who are also now gone and her anxiety was accompanied with hypertension, difficulty breathing, and trouble sleeping. If you're not somebody who is having that kind of anxiety, you might be the child of someone who’s having that anxiety. Or, if you're 50, you can have it, too. It all comes as a result of life feeling overwhelming at some point.
She decided she didn’t want her life to go in this direction. She [xx] her schedule. She attended a body wisdom class, did Qi Gong meditation, deep breathing and imagery and began to regularly attend her gardening and walking group. As of today, she reports that she feels more relax now and her blood pressure and weight had both dropped.
It's a great story because it's just another story that we have to keep hearing that she can probably walk up the hill to her house now without taking a break. Her anxiety and the symptoms that caused it, they're gone because she said to herself, “I won't back down.”
Peter Brill: Absolutely.
David Debin: I have the right.
Peter Brill: It's so easy just to give up, lying around and get old. It's so much more difficult to continue to grow and to continue to face life and to keep your self-esteem intact and say, “I won't back down.”
David Debin: Yes.
Peter Brill: I'm not going to give in. I'm not going to give up.
David Debin: You don’t have to be 79--we have people who come to us who were 50 years old or 45 years old who say, “You know, my career is not working for me but I can't do anything else. I feel like I'm stuck, I'm in a rot. [laughter]
Peter Brill: I think it's a great new theme. We have groups to help with this, www.ThirdAgeFoundation.com 805-969-9794. Write us, tell us your stories, send us your emails.
David Debin: Marissa, tell us about our wonderful sponsors again. The studio’s having a few technical problems so please, bear with us.
Peter Brill: David, I think you just became speechless for the first time in you life.
David Debin: Well, OK.
Marissa Sgobassi: You're so overpowering.
David Debin: I was so overpowering.
Peter Brill: By the message, right?
David Debin: What do we have to thank, Marissa?
Peter Brill: But don’t back down, David.
David Debin: I won't. I won't back down. I'm not backing down, I'm just staying here.
Peter Brill: My son went down and picketed with the writers. He left UCLA, went down, he picketed with the writers and he met all the writers from the shows he liked.
David Debin: I told him to go back down and get all the names of these guys because if he ever wants to be in that, which I know you're not thrilled about, he’ll have reason to call and something to say. Writers will definitely appreciate somebody who comes down to walk that picket line because I don’t know if you know it or not but the negotiations are broken off. The producers walked out and just left the writers’ negotiating committee sitting there and said, “We're not doing any of these stuff.”
Peter Brill: Do you think we should give equal time to the other side on the show?
David Debin: What's the other side?
Peter Brill: The producers.
David Debin: No, no. The producers get more than their share of equal time. Don’t you think?
Peter Brill: What do you think, Marissa? You get the last word here.
David Debin: [xx] be a fair, he's OK. All right, so I guess, what else was there?
Peter Brill: Wait a minute, Marissa has something to say.
Marissa Sgobassi: The producers, the fairness doctrine went out so there's no equal time anymore.
David Debin: What's the fairness doctrine?
Marissa Sgobassi: Apparently, it was when if you say one statement, you have to say the exact opposite, otherwise the people who weren’t being poised out would free airtime. But because of big corporations, it's no longer a doctrine--government regulation.
David Debin: I see. I don’t have to give equal time to the producers.
Marissa Sgobassi: No.
Peter Brill: But we do have to give time to thank Jared [sp] the giant technical expert [xx] and Marissa--the assistant producer of the week--Sgobassi, and Les Carroll for putting on our show.
David Debin: That’s it, we have to say goodbye. We'll see you soon.
Woman: Find more great shows like this on PersonalLifeMedia.com.
[music fades away]