Episode 7: Brian Weiss, M.D., Same Soul, Many Bodies Part 2
Brian Weiss, M.D., Same Soul, Many Bodies Part 2
Announcer: This program is brought to you by personallifemedia.com.
BRIAN WEISS: I’m Doctor Brian Weiss, author of “Many Lives, Many Masters” and “Same Soul, Many Bodies”. And I’d just like to say that “Living Dialogues with Duncan Campbell” is one of my favorite shows. Duncan has such rich and textured experience that he shares with his listeners, and being a guest on his program is so wonderful for me because the integration of Duncan’s experiences and mine are so perfectly blended. It’s not one-sided as so many programs are. This gives me an opportunity to think; the questions are provocative and to listen and learn from Duncan’s experiences too; this is really part of the program that makes it special. The nature of the show, the essence of the show is shared communication, shared experience, shared wisdom, and then, like a dialectic, the one stimulating the other, stimulating the other, bringing it to a higher level, a higher octave, than it could be just by me hearing myself talk. So I want to express my appreciation to you, Duncan, for having me on the show and for the wonderful format that you present. Everybody who listens to your show are very privileged.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: [intro:]From time immemorial, beginning with indigenous councils and ancient wisdom traditions, through the work of western visionaries, such as Plato, Galileo, and quantum physicist David Bohm, mutually participatory dialogue has been seen as the key to evolving and transforming consciousness, evoking a flow of meaning -- a ‘dia’– flow, of ‘logos’ – meaning -- beyond what any one individual can bring through alone. So join us now, as together with you, the active deep listener, we evoke and engage in, “Living Dialogues.”
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Welcome once again to “Living Dialogues”. I’m your host, Duncan Campbell, and with me for this particular dialogue I’m again delighted to have as my guest, Brian Weiss, M.D., author most recently of “Same Soul, Many Bodies.” Brian Weiss graduated magna cum laude from Columbia University, and received his medical degree from the Yale University School of Medicine. He served his internship at New York University’s Bellevue Medical Center, and went on to become Chief Resident, Department of Psychiatry, at the Yale University School of Medicine. He is now Chairman Emeritus of Psychiatry at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami. He is the author of many best-selling books, including “Many Lives, Many Masters” and “Through Time Into Healing”, “Only Love is Real”, and others. He leads seminars, workshops and professional training programs throughout the world. He’s married and lives in Miami, Florida.
So Brian, again, what a pleasure to be back on the air with you here on “Living Dialogues”.
BRIAN WEISS: Thank you, Duncan. It’s always a pleasure to be here with you.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: I’m glad that we’ve made these free will choices...
BRIAN WEISS: [laughs] yes.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: …to have our life-streams converge in this auspicious coincidence, as we talked about in our last dialogue.
BRIAN WEISS: Absolutely.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: And I want to say that maybe in this particular dialogue, since we described your past life regression therapy, and your future life visitation therapy, we might call it, very effectively in a prior dialogue, we might see how that intertwines and interweaves with this evolutionary stream of consciousness itself. And one of the things I wanted to observe again, in this dialogue, as I did the last time, is that I believe that there is a kind of overall destiny, that we do come in with a mission. As Wordsworth, the great 19th-century romantic poet, said, “We all come in trailing clouds of glory.” And then sadly, in another poem, he wrote, “Getting and spending, we lay waste our power.” And so this is the trajectory of many lives at this point in time, and there are people experiencing the kind of despair, and even suicidal despair that we described in the prior dialogue, when the self-imposed expectations or the expectations of parents, and the ‘internalized parent’, as it’s known, are not realized in terms of accumulating a certain amount of material wealth to support the egoic identity, and yet now at the same time we’re being gifted at this point in history with messages, we may say, that are coming to us very compassionately and beneficently from many sources, whether they be the reactivation of our indigenous souls, or from indigenous traditions or the reactivation of ancient traditions like the Vedas in India, or even mystical understandings of our own biblical traditions, such as the beautiful translations that Steven Mitchell has been bringing forward about the Book of Genesis and the Book of Job, which shed an entirely different light on the nature of reality, as he’s gone back into the original Hebrew and brought forth why it has been mistranslated for the last 500 years, and so on. And we’ll get a chance to talk about that, I hope, in this particular dialogue.
But to lead off, we might also honor the late John Mack, who was I think also chosen by destiny, to come in and be Chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at Harvard University, and then encounter patients that led him along a path of talking with these patients about their experience of alien abductions, which then gave birth to his book, “Passport to the Cosmos”, where he opened up another perspective on the universe which was beyond, we might say the limited hubris of the human on this planet, being you know the only ones that are sentient, or really are aware. And so that was almost like a Copernican moment, like when Copernicus said, actually, we on Earth are not God’s pampered children at the center of the universe, like a child doted upon by the parents, but actually here on Earth we are rotating around the sun. And this was so heretical, and so humiliating, literally, to the cosmology of the Church at the time, that when Bruno announced it in the next century he was burned at the stake. Galileo almost suffered the same fate, so here you are, someone who’s carrying a message that is heretical from the point of view of traditional science, and let’s maybe talk about what your experience has been in the last 24 years. Being a messenger of a larger gift of consciousness, but one that can make people very uncomfortable when they encounter it for the first time and maybe the professional institutions that you were once associated with. We’d be interested in what their reaction has been.
BRIAN WEISS: There’s so much in what you’re talking about here and so many memories for me. One, working with John Mack and doing a dialogue at Harvard University in Boston, about alien abductions. John Mack got in touch with me, because he was using hypnosis for many of his patients, to bring them back to the abduction experience. I had not much familiarity with that, but he was finding that many of them were remembering their past lives instead, or in addition. And he said to me, “Brian, I’m confirming your work! Now we have Yale; we have Harvard; I’m finding these past lives. What you’re writing about is absolutely accurate.” And in this new book, “Same Soul, Many Bodies” is one case of Patrick, a young man who in a regression now talked about coming to earth 60,000 years ago in a migration from another star system. This to me was far out and we’re not going to prove it. But what happened, how… well the bottom line for me is that souls are the same no matter where in the universe they exist. The physical bodies may change, the ‘house’ of the soul, but the souls are the same. So that’s a good memory. I was met with huge opposition from the American Psychiatric Association, but not from individual physicians. I was getting a lot of support because they’ve had a lot of their own experiences. So they were saying, “Look, don’t tell anyone, but I’ve had this patient who had this out-of-body experience, a near-death experience. They’re talking about a past life! Can you believe that?” I said, “Well, I think so. Look at my research.” And yet there was a movement to drum me out of the Psychiatric Society …
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Just like John Mack at Harvard. There were angry, highly ‘intelligent’ intellectual professors that asked for his removal, that wanted him to be denied tenure. In fact he had to hire a lawyer to actually protect his tenure at Harvard.
BRIAN WEISS: I didn’t have to hire a lawyer. Everything up to that point was the same. But it fell apart in chaos because I had my supporters; I had trained many of these people, and it never reached that moment, but there was a lot of anxiety about that. I think that’s the reason I didn’t write, “Many Lives, Many Masters” for five years or more after I finished with Catherine, because of this concern. And I had two young children, a house with a large mortgage, my professional career which was flourishing. This was a difficult decision for me, and as you and I have talked about before, probably because of my first son who had died, I decided to publish the book anyway, to do the right thing, in my mind, and to try to help people, because generally to take that risk, to let go of these fears, works out well. So there was that reaction. Then your Galileo mention and Copernicus reminded me of being in New York in November of 1992. And I picked up the New York Times, and I read that the Church had just exonerated Galileo of this accursed heresy.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: That’s right. 360 years later. I remember reading the same thing.
BRIAN WEISS: Yes! And I’m reading this article, 1992 in November, and I read further in the article that the investigation into Galileo had begun in 1980. It had been going on for twelve and a half years. So then, being on many academic committees over the years, I thought to myself, what committee is going to meet for twelve and a half years? We walked on the moon in 1969. We knew what was revolving around what. It should have taken 12 minutes, but you know, it’s happening in Italy. The coffee’s fabulous, the danishes, the food. Maybe they just like to meet. I don’t know.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: That sense of belonging, yes.
BRIAN WEISS: Yes, and then I thought Galileo was cleared when Sir Isaac Newton proved mathematically that Galileo was correct. Galileo had observed the moons of Jupiter orbiting Jupiter; he developed the telescope. No, 360 years later, still on the hook. And so I read further in the article and I see this twelve and a half year investigation. I go back to Miami and I say to a friend of mine, I tell him about this article, and I said, “Wouldn’t it have been interesting, since Sir Isaac Newton was born within a year of Galileo’s death, if Galileo had reincarnated as Sir Isaac Newton, and proved that he was correct. He would be highly motivated to do that.”
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Highly motivated, yes.
BRIAN WEISS: And then my friend pointed out, “What if he came back now as the pope, and he cleared himself?”
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: [laughs]
BRIAN WEISS: And so, stranger things have happened.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Or the chairman of the committee, most likely… more likely than the pope.
BRIAN WEISS: Right. The Inquisition is still around.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Yes, indeed. It’s now called the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, and it is the identical institution that we know for centuries as the Inquisition, officially called the Office of the Holy Inquisition until 1965. It’s never been disbanded, and silenced Matthew Fox for coming up with his notion that somehow Jesus was open to the feminine and to nature, and so forth, and eventually found a way to give him an order he could not obey, to drop his entire work and go back to the Dominican Motherhouse in Chicago. Matthew then had to choose between his allegiance to the Church and the allegiance to his mission in life, much as you had to choose at one point between the mission that you had clearly been selected for, by destiny we might say, and playing it safe, because of the mortgage and the very legitimate concerns about protecting your family and those you loved, and you made a very courageous decision to follow your destiny.
BRIAN WEISS: Thank you. It doesn’t seem courageous now, looking back, but at the time I was very torn.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: It was monumental at the time. You were undoubtedly a great pioneer. I mean there was hardly… there was no one else out there, with your kind of credentials, that was talking anything of the kind.
BRIAN WEISS: Right, and now, you know I’ve kind of condensed it, Duncan, to a single thought, almost. I’m very simplistic in this sense, and reductionistic, and the thought is, and it’s not even an original thought, the thought is, “If I can reach out with caring, and compassion, and love, to others, without expecting anything in return, I don’t have to worry about the consequences. It’s the right thing to do and that’s what I intend to do.” And that was the driving principle for me. Now this would not have worked during the Inquisition; I would have been ripped apart in the public square, but today I trust that people are of a higher consciousness and the debate’s going to happen. I debated for example Carl Sagan, who was a skeptic about these things, one time. I’m not a debater; I’m a psychiatrist, so I’m not a debate champion. You certainly have this in your background. But neither is Carl Sagan, so… What happened is that he apologized to me.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Afterwards, or on the air?
BRIAN WEISS: On the air.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: Wonderful.
BRIAN WEISS: This was on CNBC. On the air, he apologized because he had not done his homework. He really didn’t know my work. He thought I was going to be a magician or something like that. Then we were talking about people remembering foreign languages that they had never learned, xenoglossy. I told him the story about a patient of mine, a Chinese surgeon who came with an interpreter into my office and couldn’t speak a word of English, remembering a lifetime in northern California, around 1850, an argument with her husband, she began to speak in very fluent and colorful English. The interpreter, not realizing what was happening, started translating the whole thing back into Chinese for me. And then when I pointed out that I understood the English, he nearly fainted. These are all documented. There’s another case of 3-year old boys speaking Aramaic to each other; it’s documented at Columbia University.
DUNCAN CAMPBELL: I was going to ask you, to expand on that one a little bit. That was very impressive to me when I first heard it. These were twins, were they?BRIAN WEISS: Twins, yes. Three years old, in New York City, speaking a strange language to each other. The parents didn’t know what it was. They took them to Columbia University, to the Linguistics Department, where it was determined by experts that the boys were speaking Aramaic to each other. This is an extinct language, virtually, today. And there is no Aramaic station on New York cable television, or anywhere else; the parents don’t speak it; you didn’t pick it up from the neighbors. Therefore, a much more powerful case than Bridey Murphy and these other earlier cases.
For full transcript, please contact Duncan Campbell